Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:48 AM - Fw: Re: Transponder antenna signal (JOHN TIPTON)
2. 05:52 AM - Crimping Big Lugs (Jared Yates)
3. 06:07 AM - Re: Crimping Big Lugs (Ralph E. Capen)
4. 06:25 AM - Re: Buss Bar (John Grosse)
5. 06:35 AM - Re: Crimping Big Lugs (Jared Yates)
6. 06:45 AM - Re: Crimping Big Lugs (Ralph E. Capen)
7. 06:53 AM - Re: Crimping Big Lugs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 07:21 AM - Ray Allen position indicator dimmer (Dan Ballin)
9. 07:24 AM - Re: Crimping Big Lugs (Jared Yates)
10. 07:39 AM - Re: Crimping Big Lugs (Noel Loveys)
11. 07:44 AM - Re: Buss Bar (Noel Loveys)
12. 08:08 AM - Re: Ray Allen position indicator dimmer (Mike Welch)
13. 08:08 AM - Re: Crimping Big Lugs (Noel Loveys)
14. 08:36 AM - Re: Buss Bar (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 08:55 AM - Re: Crimping Big Lugs (paul wilson)
16. 08:56 AM - Re: Ray Allen position indicator dimmer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 09:17 AM - Re: Ray Allen position indicator dimmer (Mike Welch)
18. 09:23 AM - Re: Crimping Big Lugs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 09:54 AM - Re: Ray Allen position indicator dimmer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 10:02 AM - Re: Ray Allen position indicator dimmer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 10:46 AM - Re: Ray Allen position indicator dimmer (Mike Welch)
22. 10:49 AM - Re: Odyssey PC680 Battery load tests (Mickey Coggins)
23. 10:55 AM - Re: Crimping Big Lugs (bob noffs)
24. 11:16 AM - Re: Crimping Big Lugs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
25. 11:32 AM - Re: Odyssey PC680 Battery load tests (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
26. 11:39 AM - Found it . . . how to abuse your battery on purpose (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
27. 03:37 PM - Good Quality Wire Terminals? (Jeff Luckey)
28. 05:49 PM - Re: Good Quality Wire Terminals? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
29. 05:54 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 01/18/11 (Speedy11@aol.com)
30. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 01/18/11 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
31. 08:40 PM - Off topic -- Slowing an electric motor (Dan O'Brien)
32. 08:50 PM - Re: Off topic -- Slowing an electric motor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
33. 11:18 PM - Re: Off topic -- Slowing an electric motor (rayj)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna signal |
Hi John (Morgensen)
I saw that article, and I checked it out, see below
John (RV9a wings - England)
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph E. Capen
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [RV Builders] Andair Air/Oil Separator [2 Attachments]
That is a transponder antenna connected to my Monroy ATD200 traffic
detector. The antenna connected to the transponder is mounted on the
opposite side in a similar fashion. Both work fine.
-----Original Message-----
From: JOHN TIPTON
Sent: Jan 18, 2011 6:18 AM
To: recapen@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [RV Builders] Andair Air/Oil Separator [2 Attachments]
Hi Ralph (off list)
As a matter of interest: is that your transponder aerial positioned
inside the cowl !!!
Best regards
John - RV9a (wings) - England
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph E. Capen
To: RV7A@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 2:49 AM
Subject: Re: [RV Builders] Andair Air/Oil Separator [2 Attachments]
[Attachment(s) from Ralph E. Capen included below]
Dan,
the 125 shot shows detail on the condensate trap. The 399 shot shows
both
parts mounted on the front lower left corner of the firewall.
Only ones that I have of this installation. I can take a couple next
time I
have the cowl off if it'll help........
Ralph
----- Original Message -----
From: "danbaier" <dbygroups@gmail.com>
To: <RV7A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 7:52 PM
Subject: [RV Builders] Andair Air/Oil Separator
> Has anyone installed this? What results? Any pictures of
installations?
>
> Lycs pretty much blow down to about 6qts and then stabilize. I'm
hoping
> that putting one of these on would help keep 7qts aboard and the
extra
> quart would help with cooling. My CHTs / EGTs are fine - oil temp
is
> running about 10-15 higher than I'd really like.
>
> Thoughts on whether this would work?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Want more RV news? Sign up for the RV Builder's Hotline. It's
free!
> http://rvbuildershotline.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
__._,_.___
Attachment(s) from Ralph E. Capen
2 of 2 Photo(s)
P5260125.JPGPA230399.JPG
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Crimping Big Lugs |
I've been crimping a few 4-gauge welding cables with lugs that I also got
from the welding supplier. The lugs and cable are both labeled #4, but the
lugs are bigger than I would think that they should be. The fit is very
loose before crimping, which means that after I crimp them in my
whack-a-mole crimper I end up with quite a bit of daylight on either side of
the cable strands. While I'm keeping in mind that the term "gas tight"
describes the ideal crimp, I'm concerned that these crimps may not be
optimal. Has anyone else noticed this problem? Is it a problem, or does it
just look odd? These are obviously some pretty important connections that
I'd rather not have any trouble out of once they are in service.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Crimping Big Lugs |
When I did mine I couldn't see through them at the end after they were completed.
I got my lugs from the same folks that sold me the Whack-A-Mole crimper....B&C
if I recall correctly......
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jared Yates <email@jaredyates.com>
>Sent: Jan 19, 2011 8:46 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimping Big Lugs
>
>I've been crimping a few 4-gauge welding cables with lugs that I also got
>from the welding supplier. The lugs and cable are both labeled #4, but the
>lugs are bigger than I would think that they should be. The fit is very
>loose before crimping, which means that after I crimp them in my
>whack-a-mole crimper I end up with quite a bit of daylight on either side of
>the cable strands. While I'm keeping in mind that the term "gas tight"
>describes the ideal crimp, I'm concerned that these crimps may not be
>optimal. Has anyone else noticed this problem? Is it a problem, or does it
>just look odd? These are obviously some pretty important connections that
>I'd rather not have any trouble out of once they are in service.
Message 4
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A combination of threaded studs for the large wires and riveted fast on
connectors for the rest.
John
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 09:27 PM 1/18/2011, you wrote:
>> <grosseair@comcast.net>
>>
>> I know copper is generally used, but is there any reason NOT to use
>> aluminum to construct a ground buss bar?
>
> How do you plan to attach wires to it?
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Crimping Big Lugs |
The end is closed on these lugs, so I can't see through them, but there is a lot
of space in the finished lug.
On Jan 19, 2011, at 9:04, "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> When I did mine I couldn't see through them at the end after they were completed.
>
> I got my lugs from the same folks that sold me the Whack-A-Mole crimper....B&C
if I recall correctly......
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jared Yates <email@jaredyates.com>
>> Sent: Jan 19, 2011 8:46 AM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimping Big Lugs
>>
>> I've been crimping a few 4-gauge welding cables with lugs that I also got
>> from the welding supplier. The lugs and cable are both labeled #4, but the
>> lugs are bigger than I would think that they should be. The fit is very
>> loose before crimping, which means that after I crimp them in my
>> whack-a-mole crimper I end up with quite a bit of daylight on either side of
>> the cable strands. While I'm keeping in mind that the term "gas tight"
>> describes the ideal crimp, I'm concerned that these crimps may not be
>> optimal. Has anyone else noticed this problem? Is it a problem, or does it
>> just look odd? These are obviously some pretty important connections that
>> I'd rather not have any trouble out of once they are in service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Crimping Big Lugs |
I would be concerned that I have used the correct size lug for the wire?!
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jared Yates <email@jaredyates.com>
>Sent: Jan 19, 2011 9:34 AM
>To: "aeroelectric-list@matronics.com" <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimping Big Lugs
>
>
>The end is closed on these lugs, so I can't see through them, but there is a lot
of space in the finished lug.
>
>
>On Jan 19, 2011, at 9:04, "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> When I did mine I couldn't see through them at the end after they were completed.
>>
>> I got my lugs from the same folks that sold me the Whack-A-Mole crimper....B&C
if I recall correctly......
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Jared Yates <email@jaredyates.com>
>>> Sent: Jan 19, 2011 8:46 AM
>>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimping Big Lugs
>>>
>>> I've been crimping a few 4-gauge welding cables with lugs that I also got
>>> from the welding supplier. The lugs and cable are both labeled #4, but the
>>> lugs are bigger than I would think that they should be. The fit is very
>>> loose before crimping, which means that after I crimp them in my
>>> whack-a-mole crimper I end up with quite a bit of daylight on either side of
>>> the cable strands. While I'm keeping in mind that the term "gas tight"
>>> describes the ideal crimp, I'm concerned that these crimps may not be
>>> optimal. Has anyone else noticed this problem? Is it a problem, or does it
>>> just look odd? These are obviously some pretty important connections that
>>> I'd rather not have any trouble out of once they are in service.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Crimping Big Lugs |
At 08:46 AM 1/19/2011, you wrote:
I've been crimping a few 4-gauge welding cables with lugs that I also
got from the welding supplier. The lugs and cable are both labeled
#4, but the lugs are bigger than I would think that they should
be. The fit is very loose before crimping, which means that after I
crimp them in my whack-a-mole crimper I end up with quite a bit of
daylight on either side of the cable strands. While I'm keeping in
mind that the term "gas tight" describes the ideal crimp, I'm
concerned that these crimps may not be optimal.
It is a certainty that they are not . . .
Has anyone else noticed this problem? Is it a problem, or does it
just look odd? These are obviously some pretty important connections
that I'd rather not have any trouble out of once they are in service.
What you're experiencing first hand is an enduring
question as to effectiveness of mating wire size (A)
with terminal (B) installed with tool (C) operated
by craftsman (D).
Companies like AMP, T&B, Daniels, Molex, et. als.
have invested $millions$ in designing and fabricating
both tools and terminals that minimize risks in the
A+B+C+D equation.
I produced two articles some years back. Several of which
spoke to the idealized end-game for terminal
application
www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf
www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html
and another which provided a work-around for
making high quality installations of big terminals
with virtually zero-risk for loss of electrical
integrity with time in service . . .
www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
We also discussed a number of articles wherein
the authors seemed not to know or care about
the simple-ideas that support all the work
and receipes for success developed by the companies
cited above.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html
www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Wired_for_Disaster.pdf
A couple of years ago, we all read in wonderment
about an unplanned arrival with the earth experienced
by an RV builder wherein accident investigators
noted "wires pulled from their terminals" either
as a result of the accident or perhaps they came
out before and contributed to the accident. This
was an extreme example to be sure.
But why treat your terminal applications any
differently than you would treat installation
of a rivet? The problem is that the quality
of an rivet installation is a pretty much a
visual inspection thing. What goes on down
inside the strands of wire being joined to
a terminal is quite another matter.
The hedge against building un-inspectable risk
into your project is to exploit recipes for success.
Any time a particular combination of A+B+C+D
come together, they should be evaluated for
the suitability of EACH ingredient.
It sounds like the terminals (B) you spoke of are
not matched to the wire (A) and the suggested tool (C)
is perhaps not matched to either.
For myself, I don't even own crimping tools
that are whacked or jacked together with
screws. I have some low cost, tools that
are used with attention to detail based on
decades of experience. For all the problems
you have to wrestle with in fabricating your
airplane, terminal application should be the
very least of your worries. Clearly a new
combination of A+B+C is called for.
The good news is that the craftsman (D) has
observed, "maybe that doesn't look right".
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Ray Allen position indicator dimmer |
I have a couple of ray allen trim servos with the LED position
indicators. I'd like to hook the dimmer circuit (white wire) to my
panel light switch so when I turn the lights on the indicators dim.
This would work fine in a 12 v system. Mine alas is 24. Does anyone
know the correct value of a resistor I can put inline to drop the
voltage to around 12. I called Ray Allen and they couldn't give me an
answer other than the circuit draws "milliamps". I could also use a
relay, but would rather go the resistor route.
Thanks
Dan Ballin
Lancair Legacy N386DM
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Crimping Big Lugs |
Thanks Bob, I hadn't seen all of those articles yet. The "big terminal"
article looks especially helpful.
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>
> At 08:46 AM 1/19/2011, you wrote:
> I've been crimping a few 4-gauge welding cables with lugs that I also got
> from the welding supplier. The lugs and cable are both labeled #4, but the
> lugs are bigger than I would think that they should be. The fit is very
> loose before crimping, which means that after I crimp them in my
> whack-a-mole crimper I end up with quite a bit of daylight on either side of
> the cable strands. While I'm keeping in mind that the term "gas tight"
> describes the ideal crimp, I'm concerned that these crimps may not be
> optimal.
>
> It is a certainty that they are not . . .
>
>
> Has anyone else noticed this problem? Is it a problem, or does it just
> look odd? These are obviously some pretty important connections that I'd
> rather not have any trouble out of once they are in service.
>
> What you're experiencing first hand is an enduring
> question as to effectiveness of mating wire size (A)
> with terminal (B) installed with tool (C) operated
> by craftsman (D).
>
> Companies like AMP, T&B, Daniels, Molex, et. als.
> have invested $millions$ in designing and fabricating
> both tools and terminals that minimize risks in the
> A+B+C+D equation.
>
> I produced two articles some years back. Several of which
> spoke to the idealized end-game for terminal
> application
>
> www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf
>
> www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html
>
> and another which provided a work-around for
> making high quality installations of big terminals
> with virtually zero-risk for loss of electrical
> integrity with time in service . . .
>
> www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
>
> We also discussed a number of articles wherein
> the authors seemed not to know or care about
> the simple-ideas that support all the work
> and receipes for success developed by the companies
> cited above.
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html
>
> www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Wired_for_Disaster.pdf
>
> A couple of years ago, we all read in wonderment
> about an unplanned arrival with the earth experienced
> by an RV builder wherein accident investigators
> noted "wires pulled from their terminals" either
> as a result of the accident or perhaps they came
> out before and contributed to the accident. This
> was an extreme example to be sure.
>
> But why treat your terminal applications any
> differently than you would treat installation
> of a rivet? The problem is that the quality
> of an rivet installation is a pretty much a
> visual inspection thing. What goes on down
> inside the strands of wire being joined to
> a terminal is quite another matter.
>
> The hedge against building un-inspectable risk
> into your project is to exploit recipes for success.
> Any time a particular combination of A+B+C+D
> come together, they should be evaluated for
> the suitability of EACH ingredient.
>
> It sounds like the terminals (B) you spoke of are
> not matched to the wire (A) and the suggested tool (C)
> is perhaps not matched to either.
>
> For myself, I don't even own crimping tools
> that are whacked or jacked together with
> screws. I have some low cost, tools that
> are used with attention to detail based on
> decades of experience. For all the problems
> you have to wrestle with in fabricating your
> airplane, terminal application should be the
> very least of your worries. Clearly a new
> combination of A+B+C is called for.
>
> The good news is that the craftsman (D) has
> observed, "maybe that doesn't look right".
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Crimping Big Lugs |
Sounds to me like your crimp is not right. I would try inserting the wire
into the lug and then collapsing the middle of the crimp ring with a cold
chisel positioned parallel to the wire in the ring then fold the ring almost
in half and give it the what for with your "Wack-a-mole" crimper.
If you can see light through the crimp that is a place for corrosion to
start leading to inevitable failure.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jared
Yates
Sent: January 19, 2011 10:16 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimping Big Lugs
I've been crimping a few 4-gauge welding cables with lugs that I also got
from the welding supplier. The lugs and cable are both labeled #4, but the
lugs are bigger than I would think that they should be. The fit is very
loose before crimping, which means that after I crimp them in my
whack-a-mole crimper I end up with quite a bit of daylight on either side of
the cable strands. While I'm keeping in mind that the term "gas tight"
describes the ideal crimp, I'm concerned that these crimps may not be
optimal. Has anyone else noticed this problem? Is it a problem, or does it
just look odd? These are obviously some pretty important connections that
I'd rather not have any trouble out of once they are in service.
Message 11
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|
I was also thinking... you may also be able to find a nicopress crimper the
right size to close the lugs.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Grosse
Sent: January 19, 2011 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Buss Bar
A combination of threaded studs for the large wires and riveted fast on
connectors for the rest.
John
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 09:27 PM 1/18/2011, you wrote:
>> <grosseair@comcast.net>
>>
>> I know copper is generally used, but is there any reason NOT to use
>> aluminum to construct a ground buss bar?
>
> How do you plan to attach wires to it?
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Ray Allen position indicator dimmer |
Dan=2C
I'll take a stab at this=2C but I need the real electronic gurus to
verify I was on the right track.
Re: the 10 LED bar graphs=2C I have many of them=2C but they are either
all red or all yellow. The ones that contain all three colors are just a c
ombination
of the available LED colors=2C namely red=2C yellow and green. See below f
or an 'all one color"=3B
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330271806124&ssPageNam
e=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Although this particular bar graph is offered in one color=2C eBay has se
veral
of the 3-color bar graphs that are exactly what Ray Allen uses. If you scr
oll down
far enough in this eBay listing=2C you'll see that ALL THREE (green=2C yell
ow=2C & red)
colors have a MAXIMUM forward voltage of 2.5 volts!!
This should be sufficient enough information to use our handy LED formula
to calculte the necessary resistor.
R= (Vs-Vled)/I
Vs=24 volts
Vled=2.5 volts
I mA
Let's solve for R now. 24 volts-2.5 volts= 21.5 volts
Therefore=3B 21.5 volts/20mA = R
But we need to make sure we convert our mA into Amps first. So 20mA / 10
00 = .02 A
Well=2C continue..... 21.5 volts / .02A = 1075 ohms
You're going to want at least 1075 ohms to keep from popping LEDs. I fou
nd it makes
VERY little difference in brightness by making small resistance changes=2C
so if it was me=2C I'd be
shooting for close to 1200-1500 ohms (probably 1500 ohms).
Hope this helps=2C Dan
Mike Welch
Message 13
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| Subject: | Crimping Big Lugs |
The end of the lug should be open so you can be sure of proper penetration
into the fitting.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jared
Yates
Sent: January 19, 2011 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimping Big Lugs
The end is closed on these lugs, so I can't see through them, but there is a
lot of space in the finished lug.
On Jan 19, 2011, at 9:04, "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net> wrote:
<recapen@earthlink.net>
>
> When I did mine I couldn't see through them at the end after they were
completed.
>
> I got my lugs from the same folks that sold me the Whack-A-Mole
crimper....B&C if I recall correctly......
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jared Yates <email@jaredyates.com>
>> Sent: Jan 19, 2011 8:46 AM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimping Big Lugs
>>
>> I've been crimping a few 4-gauge welding cables with lugs that I also got
>> from the welding supplier. The lugs and cable are both labeled #4, but
the
>> lugs are bigger than I would think that they should be. The fit is very
>> loose before crimping, which means that after I crimp them in my
>> whack-a-mole crimper I end up with quite a bit of daylight on either side
of
>> the cable strands. While I'm keeping in mind that the term "gas tight"
>> describes the ideal crimp, I'm concerned that these crimps may not be
>> optimal. Has anyone else noticed this problem? Is it a problem, or does
it
>> just look odd? These are obviously some pretty important connections
that
>> I'd rather not have any trouble out of once they are in service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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At 09:15 AM 1/19/2011, you wrote:
>
>A combination of threaded studs for the large wires and riveted fast
>on connectors for the rest.
Rivets are designed for use in shear, not in tension.
Further, your fast-on lugs are no doubt going to be
of a material dissimilar to the bus bar.
Suggest you go to a hardware store or hobby shop
and get a chunk of sheet brass or better yet copper.
Roofing companies often have scraps of copper flashing
around from which you can get a suitable piece. Also
check around on Ebay.
http://tinyurl.com/5sa26kp
Here's a nice chunk of .062" sheet that you can
shear up for what you need and offer lots of similar
chunks to other builders.
Use copper pop-rivets to fixture the fast-on
lugs and then solder using electronic 63/37
solder.
There are ways to do the best we know how to
do at minimal time and dollars but bolting up
an array of terminals on a piece of aluminum is
not the best we know how to do.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Crimping Big Lugs |
These discussions on crimoing big lugs is interesting.
My method is to take the parts to the battery store and have them
crimp them with their high leverage crimper. They have dies for all
sizes and combos of lugs & wires. The same store stocks lugs (open or
closed) and the welding cable in several styles. The cost for the
crimping was minimal and they always included the heat shrink in
black or red. They were glad to help.
To find a proper battery store look for the stores that cater to
the solar people.
Paul
==========
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Ray Allen position indicator dimmer |
At 10:18 AM 1/19/2011, you wrote:
>
>I have a couple of ray allen trim servos with the LED position
>indicators. I'd like to hook the dimmer circuit (white wire) to my
>panel light switch so when I turn the lights on the indicators dim.
>This would work fine in a 12 v system. Mine alas is 24. Does anyone
>know the correct value of a resistor I can put inline to drop the
>voltage to around 12. I called Ray Allen and they couldn't give me an
>answer other than the circuit draws "milliamps". I could also use a
>relay, but would rather go the resistor route.
Not easy to deduce without more data. I suspect the
bar graph array is driven by an LM3914 (or similar)
device.
www.energies.alba-annuaire.fr/data/lm/LM3914.pdf
I presume further that the chip is configured
to illuminate only one led at a time as opposed to
a variable length bar of multiple leds. The data
sheet says that an LM3914 controls LED current
INTERNALLY as a function of the current flowing
in the reference voltage divider (R1, R2). Adding
resistors in series with the leds will wrestle
with the brightness control feature built into
the chip.
So driving your stock indicator directly from
the dimming system will similarly wrestle with
the chip's built in features.
Use an LM7812 or equal to provide 12v
power to run the indicator from your 24v
system.
http://tinyurl.com/2fwxrgm
If you want to do real dimming control, you'll
need to get inside the indicator and "jeep"
the design to add a dimming feature that exploits
the chip's built in feature.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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| Subject: | Ray Allen position indicator dimmer |
Dan=2C everyone else=2C too=2C
Regarding those little RYG (red=2C yellow=2C green) 10 LED bargraphs=2C l
ike
I said=2C I have several! I bought a bunch of them years ago=2C and so far
have never really found a good use for any of them. However=2C recently I
thought I'd see how they work=2C and if they look good enough (brightness
=2C
notice-ability=2C clarity=2C etc.) I'd find a good home for several of them
.
First=2C I thought I'd see how they 'operate'! Can I hook all the anodes
in
parallel=2C and dispense with a resistor? Do the yellow ones look sharp
enough? Can I use a stack of 3-5 high=2C and make them look better?
Lots of questions....
First=2C I found out the yellow ones are near useless. At least=2C that'
s
my opinion. They look more like off-color white=2C somewhat diffused=2C an
d
not very 'attractive'. IMO!
So=2C I thought I'd put one (yellow) on a breadboard=2C hook up ALL 10 an
odes to the
positive 12V transformer=2C combine all 10 cathodes to the negative=2C and
give it
a 'go'. Pop!! about 8 of them blew out=2C and a couple of others lo
oked dazed
and confused!! If I'm not mistaken=2C I may have had a little puff of magi
c smoke.
In the trash it went!!
Okay=2C so far=2C I found out that just because they are all in a tight l
ittle rectangular package=2C
they're STILL LEDs!!! They will still pop if you don't give each and ever
one of them
their proper individual resistor. Duh!! But=2C hey=2C I was experimenting
!!
The next thing I did was look on eBay for someone selling some of these
=2C so that i could get
a 'data sheet'. That's where I found that link I shared.
In a nutshell I found out=3B
a) 10 LED bargraphs are still regular LEDs=2C just neatly packed in a line
....and really small
b) they burn out---just like the regular kind if you don't allow for prope
r resistance
c) never buy 20 of them when you don't have a use for one of them
d) the yellow ones aren't worth buying....at all!!
Mike Welch
Learning LEDs 101
Message 18
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| Subject: | Crimping Big Lugs |
At 11:50 AM 1/19/2011, you wrote:
These discussions on crimoing big lugs is interesting.
My method is to take the parts to the battery store and have them
crimp them with their high leverage crimper. They have dies for all
sizes and combos of lugs & wires. The same store stocks lugs (open or
closed) and the welding cable in several styles. The cost for the
crimping was minimal and they always included the heat shrink in
black or red. They were glad to help.
To find a proper battery store look for the stores that cater to the
solar people.
An excellent A + B + C + D = recipe for success!
Bob . . .
Message 19
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| Subject: | Ray Allen position indicator dimmer |
At 12:12 PM 1/19/2011, you wrote:
Dan, everyone else, too,
Regarding those little RYG (red, yellow, green) 10 LED bargraphs, like
I said, I have several! I bought a bunch of them years ago, and so far
have never really found a good use for any of them. However, recently I
thought I'd see how they work, and if they look good enough (brightness,
notice-ability, clarity, etc.) I'd find a good home for several of them.
Excellent experiment. But know that there are leds and then there ARE
leds. They come in a constellation of capabilities ranging from the ALARM
ON light in your bedside clock (where 6 mCd is enough) up to those used
on full color billboards were 15,000 mCd is marginal to the builder's
design goals.
The market for bar-graph displays is consumer products most of which
are used in the living room and have no sun-light viewability issues.
Further, the customer seldom has an opinion or desire with respect to
color, brightness or other viewability wishes.
So be aware that most of what's out there is probably not suited for
use on the panel of an airplane. Further, MOST bar graphs of any
manufacture will be hard pressed to make it into the cockpit of a
TC aircraft.
First, I thought I'd see how they 'operate'! Can I hook all the anodes in
parallel, and dispense with a resistor? Do the yellow ones look sharp
enough?
Can I use a stack of 3-5 high, and make them look better?
Sure. The LM3914 data sheet I cited earlier says you can stack chips
and displays. One of the guys I worked with at Electro-Mech about
30 years ago did a 100 lamp display from a 10x array of chips and
displays. 1 percent resolution. Cool!
First, I found out the yellow ones are near useless. At least, that's
my opinion. They look more like off-color white, somewhat diffused, and
not very 'attractive'. IMO!
Most "yellow" is not very aircraft oriented except for painting
a J-3. What you're really wanting is an amber led. Hard to find
in bar graphs assemblies. That's why you mgiht consider building
your own. It's just 10 leds in a suitable housing . . . and the
LEDs are plentiful, bright and cheap.
So, I thought I'd put one (yellow) on a breadboard, hook up ALL 10
anodes to the
positive 12V transformer, combine all 10 cathodes to the negative, and give it
a 'go'. Pop!! about 8 of them blew out, and a couple of
others looked dazed
and confused!! If I'm not mistaken, I may have had a little puff of
magic smoke.
In the trash it went!!
Okay, so far, I found out that just because they are all in a
tight little rectangular package,
they're STILL LEDs!!! They will still pop if you don't give each and
ever one of them
their proper individual resistor. Duh!! But, hey, I was experimenting!!
The next thing I did was look on eBay for someone selling some of
these, so that i could get
a 'data sheet'. That's where I found that link I shared.
Yup! Fortunately it was a low cost experiment . . .
LEDs are current driven devices and CANNOT be practically
connected to any hard voltage source. EACH led needs to
be driven by its own current limited source (unless wired
in series). In the case of the LM3914 driver, the current
controls are built in. But if you're going to light these
fellows up on the bench, pay attention to their requirements.
They are generally NOT fragile devices. We had a discussion
back in 2004/2005 where I cited an experiment where I'd
wired a 30mA rated LED to a wall-wart biased at 5x rated
current and plugged it into a little used outlet in my
garage. A least a couple years later I terminated the
experiment with the LED still illuminating the whole
garage at night.
In a nutshell I found out;
a) 10 LED bargraphs are still regular LEDs, just neatly packed in a
line....and really small
b) they burn out---just like the regular kind if you don't allow for
proper resistance
c) never buy 20 of them when you don't have a use for one of them
d) the yellow ones aren't worth buying....at all!!
Mike Welch
Learning LEDs 101
Good for you. Keep us apprised of your discoveries. There
are no doubt others who would like to incorporate your
own experiences into their bags of tricks. In any case
be aware that most led arrays you might put your hands
on will want to be up under the glare-shield to be
visible while flying in sunlight. Consider also putting
them behind a 'smoked' plexiglas . . . while you toss way
1/2 or more of their intensity, the CONTRAST ratio
is so much higher that they GAIN sunlight viewability.
Bob . . .
Message 20
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| Subject: | Ray Allen position indicator dimmer |
>
> First, I found out the yellow ones are near useless. At least, that's
>my opinion. They look more like off-color white, somewhat diffused, and
>not very 'attractive'. IMO!
Check out these critters.
http://tinyurl.com/4v7clqr
Really good intensity numbers for a bar graph assy.
Plus DUAL color red/green which means you can light
both lamps to get yellow?
Bob . . .
Message 21
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| Subject: | Ray Allen position indicator dimmer |
Does anyone
> know the correct value of a resistor I can put inline to drop the
> voltage to around 12. I called Ray Allen and they couldn't give me an
> answer other than the circuit draws "milliamps". I could also use a
> relay=2C but would rather go the resistor route.
>
> Thanks
> Dan Ballin
> Lancair Legacy N386DM
Dan=2C
In re-reading your question....and my response=2C I think Bob's
answer was more what you're looking for. (as usual!!)
Since you wouldn't normally need ANY resistor attached to
the white wire (for dimming the LEDs)=2C your question is more
directed toward dropping 24V to 12V.
In that case=2C obviously=2C the LM7812 is the correct way to go.
Mike Welch
learning from the best=2C all the time.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Odyssey PC680 Battery load tests |
Hi Bob,
All three batteries were just sitting on a shelf - not connected to
anything. I didn't do any charging to them during these years, which makes
me wonder if perhaps they are now "damaged". The two Odyssey batteries
had very low voltages - can't recall exactly, but it was low single digits,
and they could not trigger a battery contactor. The Panasonic still had
about 12 volts and worked fine. Exact same treatment for all three
batteries.
You mentioned that the battery tender is not meant as a charger. I also
have a "dumb" charger that just dumps in either 2.5 or 5 amps - I forgot to
check the voltage it puts out. Do you think that this charger would be
better at recovering these batteries than the battery tender?
Thanks,
Mickey
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 23:50, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> I used the West Mountain Radio CBA to test some batteries that I had hope
d
> to use in my aircraft. =C3=82 Unfortunately the PC680 batteries have been
laying
> around for about 6 years, and had became quite discharged.
>
> What kind of maintenance did you do on the batteries
> while stored? The Battery Tender and Battery Minders
> are not intended to be 'chargers' so much as 'maintainers'.
> When you have 12v batteries on storage, it's a good idea
> to clip them all together in parallel and have some
> sort of sophisticated maintainer supporting the lot.
> I use the Schumacher 1562 or a Battery Tender to
> support my test batteries. Some are pushing 7 years
> old with better than 80% of new capacity.
>
> I really thought that the Odyssey batteries would hold a charge better th
an
> a "standard" Panasonic. =C3=82 Also, the fact that the Panasonic is givin
g me
> double the capacity is quite surprising.
>
> Were all three stored under the same conditions?
>
> =C3=82 I have not yet tried my desulfator, but that's my next step. =C3
=82 I've only
> tested one of my two Odyssey batteries, going to test the other "soon".
>
> We'll be interested to hear what you discover.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
--
Mickey Coggins
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Crimping Big Lugs |
before i crimped i put as many 1/2'', 12 or 14 solid copper wire pieces in
the lug as i could fit/tap in. then the lug didn't deform so much when
crimped and it was TIGHT.
bob noffs
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Sounds to me like your crimp is not right. I would try inserting the
> wire into the lug and then collapsing the middle of the crimp ring with a
> cold chisel positioned parallel to the wire in the ring then fold the rin
g
> almost in half and give it the what for with your =93Wack-a-mole=94 crimp
er.
>
>
> If you can see light through the crimp that is a place for corrosion to
> start leading to inevitable failure.
>
>
> Noel
>
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jared Yates
> *Sent:* January 19, 2011 10:16 AM
>
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Crimping Big Lugs
>
>
> I've been crimping a few 4-gauge welding cables with lugs that I also got
> from the welding supplier. The lugs and cable are both labeled #4, but t
he
> lugs are bigger than I would think that they should be. The fit is very
> loose before crimping, which means that after I crimp them in my
> whack-a-mole crimper I end up with quite a bit of daylight on either side
of
> the cable strands. While I'm keeping in mind that the term "gas tight"
> describes the ideal crimp, I'm concerned that these crimps may not be
> optimal. Has anyone else noticed this problem? Is it a problem, or does
it
> just look odd? These are obviously some pretty important connections tha
t
> I'd rather not have any trouble out of once they are in service.
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Crimping Big Lugs |
At 01:51 PM 1/19/2011, you wrote:
>before i crimped i put as many 1/2'', 12 or 14 solid copper wire
>pieces in the lug as i could fit/tap in. then the lug didn't deform
>so much when crimped and it was TIGHT.
But was it GAS TIGHT? Unless you cross-section
the joint and get a picture like
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/GL.jpg
moisture and oxygen can get in and start working
on the joint. It's like copper eating termites.
This is particularly important with fat-wires where
the corrosion process is aided and abetted by the
flow of electrons across the compromised areas of
the joint.
Just because your finished task is mechanically
'tight' is not 99.9% probability of good outcome.
Bob . . .
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Odyssey PC680 Battery load tests |
At 01:40 PM 1/19/2011, you wrote:
>Hi Bob,
>
>All three batteries were just sitting on a shelf - not connected to anything.
> I didn't do any charging to them during these
>years, which makes me wonder if perhaps they are
>now "damaged". The two Odyssey batteries
>had very low voltages - can't recall exactly,
>but it was low single digits, and they could not
>trigger a battery contactor. The Panasonic
>still had about 12 volts and worked
>fine. Exact same treatment for all three batteries.
Interesting. As you've noted, I would have expected
Hawker products to be equal to or better than
Panasonic.
>You mentioned that the battery tender is not meant as a charger.
Battery Tenders WILL charge good batteries. With it's
limited output (0.8A as I recall) it might take
some time. But when the BT is INTENDED to stay
hooked up for duration of a storage interval, recharge
time is not a significant consideration.
When I returned my instrumentation batteries back
to the shelf after a job, I just let the battery
maintainer top it off . . . never ran one down
seriously that I recall but it didn't matter.
With weeks to months between tasks, the battery
maintainer had all the time in the world.
> I also have a "dumb" charger that just dumps
> in either 2.5 or 5 amps - I forgot to check the
> voltage it puts out. Do you think that this
> charger would be better at recovering these batteries than the battery tender?
"Recovering" is a term subject to interpretation.
In many, many conversations with Skip Koss at
Concorde and the gurus at Navy Battery Labs at
Crane, IN, I've been made aware of numerous successful
recoveries (80% plus of new capacity) for batteries
that were accidently (or even deliberately abused).
There are numerous qualification specs for aircraft/military
batteries that call for total discharge and store
at elevated temperature for some period of time. Then
conduct some sort of recovery process. Usually starts
with connecting a 12v battery to a 20v source until it
starts to draw recharge current exceeding 1A or some such.
Then charge at 14.6 until current drops below 100 mA.
Then discharge and repeat up to two times. If the battery
doesn't 'recover' after the third attempt, it's scrap.
I don't recall the exact numbers but yes, SOME batteries
can be 'recovered' under SOME conditions.
YEARS of dead storage . . . it's a long shot.
Bob . . .
Message 26
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| Subject: | Found it . . . how to abuse your battery on purpose |
Earlier I wrote:
"There are numerous qualification specs for aircraft/military
batteries that call for total discharge and store
at elevated temperature for some period of time. Then
conduct some sort of recovery process."
From DO-293 we find this recipe for investigation . . .
Emacs!
This test is run on a factory-new battery with the total
test running 28 days.
Bob . . .
Message 27
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| Subject: | Good Quality Wire Terminals? |
Hey Bob,
Back in the "old days" we used to use T&B Stak-on (sp?) wire terminals. I
think I read somewhere that you recommend Amp terminals. A couple of
questions:
1. Are Stak-ons still available?
2. Are the still considered high-quality?
3. Is Amp now the "top dog" in wire terminals?
4. IIRC, Stak-ons were not cheap, are Amp less expensive?
5. Is Thomas & Betts still around, or have they been bought-out several
times over?
Thanks
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Good Quality Wire Terminals? |
At 06:32 PM 1/19/2011, you wrote:
Hey Bob,
Back in the "old days" we used to use T&B Stak-on (sp?) wire terminals. I
think I read somewhere that you recommend Amp terminals. A couple of
questions:
1. Are Stak-ons still available?
2. Are the still considered high-quality?
3. Is Amp now the "top dog" in wire terminals?
4. IIRC, Stak-ons were not cheap, are Amp less expensive?
5. Is Thomas & Betts still around, or have they been bought-out several
times over?
I don't think any one brand is "golden" . . . for
fat wires 8 AWG and larger, plain-vanilla bare-foot
terminals are fine . . . and I don't think anyone makes
a "bad" one.
Emacs!
Crimp or solder and use double-wall heat shrink
to seal the joint and provide support for the
smaller gages.
For 22-10AWG wire, the AMP PIDG (pre-insulated
diamond grip) style is recommended and made by
many folks under Mil-T-7928, class II, type 1 and
2. The thing to look for is the 'extra' copper
sleeve over the wire grip barrel and under
the insulator.
Emacs!
In other words, avoid the 2-piece terminals
(barefoot + insulation only).
There's lots of brands to choose from. Be
aware that for small quantities of various
sizes of the PIDG, http://Digkey.com is a
great source of about every size you'll need
and they offer small packages of 10 pieces like:
http://tinyurl.com/6bvzcuk
Bob . . .
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 01/18/11 |
Bob,
That could be a very interesting project. Were I not so ignorant about
antenna physics, I might try it myself.
Stan Sutterfield
In a message dated 1/19/2011 3:02:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list@matronics.com writes:
Got home a few hours ago and posted a patent issued
in '61 for what is euphemistically called a "scimitar"
antenna.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Antenna/Scimitar_Patent_3015101.p
df
I recalled seeing these all over the empannage belly
of the B-52. They looked like tie-down rings except that
there was about a half dozen of various sizes. They
were associated with the electronic counter-measures
system. I was a bomb-nav guy so I didn't get any schooling
on them.
Years later I was thinking about making a robust
transponder antenna using this design philosophy
but never got around to it. Others here on the List
might be interested in trying it out. Note that
where the SWR on the exemplar antenna in the patent
goes below 2:1 (4,000 Mhz) the horizontal radiation
pattern goes pretty circular.
An antenna could be crafted from aluminum or perhaps
brass and thick enough to offer the wished-for mechanical
robustness. The edges could also be sculptured as
necessary for aerodynamically appealing affect.
It was interesting to contemplate the development history
of this antenna. While based on development work by
the Turner guys pre 1958 the patent wasn't issued until
1961. The airplanes I was working on were built in the
1954-58 time frame and already had several sizes installed.
Similar antennas on the spacecraft programs were faired
with radomes. The antennas on the B-52 were bare and
hung right out in the breeze.
Anywho, for what it's worth, this might be the basis
for a nice DIY antenna project. It would lend itself
well to an article featuring fabricate-to-drawings
illustrations.
Bob . .
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 01/18/11 |
At 08:51 PM 1/19/2011, you wrote:
>Bob,
>That could be a very interesting project. Were I not so ignorant
>about antenna physics, . . .
. . . as were we all once. It's a matter of choices
as to which of many opportunities will be explored.
Methinks you have a great many opportunities to choose
from already! I might be able to sift through the
data and fabricate a test-article out of copper clad
and sneak it into the test lab. Once the dimensions
are known, there's probably a bunch of folks on
the list that could carve some aluminum.
Bob . . .
Message 31
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| Subject: | Off topic -- Slowing an electric motor |
I built a wind tunnel for my son=92s physics project. Works great! The is
sue
is that I would like to slow the fan down to generate airspeed below the
Reynolds number of a dimpled golf ball. Current airspeed is about 58 mph.
I
need to slow the fan to generate airspeed below 30 mph. The motor is a
permanent split capacitor type:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAYTON-Direct-Drive-Blower-Motor-7E658. A
ny
thoughts on how to slow it down? I've read that slowing it with a dimmer
might damage the motor.
Thanks,
Dan O=92Brien
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Off topic -- Slowing an electric motor |
At 11:35 PM 1/19/2011, you wrote:
>I built a wind tunnel for my son's physics project.. Works
>great! The issue is that I would like to slow the fan down to
>generate airspeed below the Reynolds number of a dimpled golf
>ball. Current airspeed is about 58 mph. I need to slow the fan to
>generate airspeed below 30 mph. The motor is a permanent split
>capacitor type:
><http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAYTON-Direct-Drive-Blower-Motor-7E658>http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAYTON-Direct-Drive-Blower-Motor-7E658.
>Any thoughts on how to slow it down? I've read that slowing it with
>a dimmer might damage the motor.
It is difficult to slow these critters. May I suggest
another motor? Ebay has a bunch of DC motors and
controllers intended for treadmill service . . .
but easily adaptable to other tasks. These controllers
usually have some form of tach feedback for very
stable speed control.
Alternatively, how about putting a damper across
the inlet to throttle air flow?
Bob . . .
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Off topic -- Slowing an electric motor |
do not archive
You can't talk about a wind tunnel and not include at least a photo!!
Better yet a parts list and a blueprint :)
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
On 01/19/2011 09:46 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 11:35 PM 1/19/2011, you wrote:
>
>> I built a wind tunnel for my sons physics project.. Works great! The
>> issue is that I would like to slow the fan down to generate airspeed
>> below the Reynolds number of a dimpled golf ball. Current airspeed is
>> about 58 mph. I need to slow the fan to generate airspeed below 30
>> mph. The motor is a permanent split capacitor type:
>> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAYTON-Direct-Drive-Blower-Motor-7E658 .
>> Any thoughts on how to slow it down? I've read that slowing it with a
>> dimmer might damage the motor.
>
> It is difficult to slow these critters. May I suggest
> another motor? Ebay has a bunch of DC motors and
> controllers intended for treadmill service . . .
> but easily adaptable to other tasks. These controllers
> usually have some form of tach feedback for very
> stable speed control.
>
> Alternatively, how about putting a damper across
> the inlet to throttle air flow?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> *
>
>
> *
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