Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:21 AM - Re: Re: Low resistance measurement adapter. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 10:23 AM - Re: Re: terminate shielded cables in Sub D (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 12:29 PM - Fw: Solar Highways (off topic) (Robert Mitchell)
4. 12:49 PM - Re: Fw: Solar Highways (off topic) (Robert Reed)
5. 02:06 PM - Pitot Heat (EMAproducts@aol.com)
6. 02:40 PM - Re: Fw: Solar Highways (off topic) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 03:25 PM - Re: Fw: Solar Highways (off topic) (David)
8. 03:25 PM - Re: Shorai LiFePO4 (Ken)
9. 03:30 PM - Re: Pitot Heat (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 03:36 PM - Re: Fw: Solar Highways (off topic) (Terry Watson)
11. 06:57 PM - Re: Fw: Solar Highways (off topic) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Low resistance measurement adapter. |
At 10:51 PM 2/5/2011, you wrote:
>Bob, Are these shipping yet?
Pretty soon. Dr. Dee and I and the rest of
the family have been under the weather and
under the WX. All the parts are in
and on the bench right now. Present trends
plotted into the future say I can get to
them tomorrow night.
You guys kind of swamped me. I ordered
parts for 10 thinking I might sell 3 or
4. I've got orders for eight. It's a good
and bad thing . . . but I'm delighted that
so many folks are interested in expanding
their bag-of-tricks for the investigation
and understanding of how things work and
why things don't work!
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: terminate shielded cables in Sub D |
At 12:14 AM 2/6/2011, you wrote:
>
>Brilliant!
>
>That is exactly what i need.
>That is why i like this forum
>
>I have booked mark your site for further investigation.
Pleased to be of service sir. Please bring any
future questions to the List. There's a bunch
of brothers here willing to help . . . and please
pass the word to others in your part of the world.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Fwd: Solar Highways (off topic) |
Here is a mind boggling idea, glass solar highways, with built in signage an
d no asphalt. Should try this on airport runways first.
Bob Mitchell
L-320
> : Solar Highways
>
>
>
> Now this is really "out of the box thinking".;
>
> Talk about an interesting idea! fascinating concept.
>
>
>
> http://www.wimp.com/solarhighways/
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Solar Highways (off topic) |
OUCH!- Mind boggling is right.- -Think the roads get slick now when i
t rains?- A =0Alittle oil from the cars, a little rain, and it would make
ICE look like your =0Afriend.=0A=0AI think I will pass on this one, especi
ally on airport runways.- Its those =0Aunintended consequences that will
get you every time.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom:
Robert Mitchell <rmitch1@hughes.net>=0ATo: "Aeroelectric-List@Matronics. Co
m" <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Sun, February 6, 2011 2:18:54
PM=0ASubject: AeroElectric-List: Fwd: Solar Highways (off topic)=0A=0A=0AHe
re is a mind boggling idea, glass solar highways, with built in signage and
no =0Aasphalt. -Should try this on airport runways first.=0ABob Mitchell
=0AL-320=0A=0A: Solar Highways=0A>>-=0A>>Now this is- really "out of th
e box thinking".; =0A>>Talk- about an interesting idea!- fascinating co
ncept.--- =0A>>-=0A>>http://www.wimp.com/solarhighways/=0A>=0A =0A
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Message 5
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Bob, as a 25000+ pilot and a CFI for nearly 50 years the advice you give
below is the best info I've seen on any of the websites~~I tell people to
turn our AOA system off if they are in icing, why have an instrument give you
a bad indication~ I will never heat a vane unless the plane is approved for
flight in icing conditions.
Elbie Mendenhall
EM aviation _www.riteangle.com_ (http://www.riteangle.com)
Any time you even THINK you've gathered
some ice, the prudent action is to take
immediate measures to get out . . . 180
turn, change altitude, etc. This (or a similar)
philosophy for icing encounters should have
you breathing easier in a much shorter
period of time . . . and probably before
the pitot tube ices over.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Solar Highways (off topic) |
At 03:45 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote:
>OUCH! Mind boggling is right. Think the roads get slick now when
>it rains? A little oil from the cars, a little rain, and it would
>make ICE look like your friend.
>
>I think I will pass on this one, especially on airport runways. Its
>those unintended consequences that will get you every time.
Clearly, there are many details begging for
further attention. I was disappointed too that
so much whoopie-do was given to signage, etched
circuit boards, weight sensors, microprocessors
and other gee-whizzies. They did acknowledge the
demands placed on a roadway by 18-wheelers traveling
at highway speeds.
Yes, the planet is blessed with a lot of silicon
dioxide but crafting it into a material with suitable
resistance to damage due to flexure under loading,
a road surface with coefficients of friction
equal to or better than asphalt, and still remain
friendly to the task of housing photo-cells is
a daunting one.
I am reminded of the main street of my little
cow/wheat/oil-town. It's paved in bricks. Many pushing
100 years old. The maintenance guys can pull them
up, dig up and fix problematic pipes, and put them back down
again. Would our roads and highways become paved
with glass bricks that not only carry the weight
of vehicles but generate electricity too? Golly, local
roadway jurisdictions could sell advertising. Not
only could a roadway light up to define its
boundaries, it could pitch laundry soap
and life insurance. It's a siren song looking for
the support of some simple-ideas. Maybe you could
buy cars with built in pop-up blockers. Still
another source of revenue for somebody.
I'll suggest there's a still greater challenge.
Forget the photocells for the moment. Suppose you
had an array of . . . AA alkaline cells on 3" centers
22' wide and 5280 feet long . . . one mile of 'roadway'.
That's about 1.8 million cells that produce 1.0 to 1.5 volts
of EMF and current levels MUCH greater than a 9 square
inch photo voltaic and about 3x the voltage to boot.
Now, how to hook them up? Series-parallel to what
voltage/current level?
The simple-idea in power distribution that doomed
T.A. Edison's wildest dreams was LINE LOSSES. DC
has to be generated at the voltage it is sold at.
http://edison.rutgers.edu/power.htm
http://www.ieeeghn.org/wiki/index.php/Edison%27s_Electric_Light_and_Power_System
I saw a map of Edison's power generating system for
a neighborhood of N.Y. He had to have generating
facilities every few blocks. The second article
speaks to a "Three wire distribution" system to
save on copper (and thus minimize losses). This
had to be a +120/0/-120 distribution where the ground
leg current was ideally offset to zero by managing
loads for equal current flow in the two "hot"
legs. A forerunner of our modern 120/0/120 VAC
system for large, single phase appliances.
So back to our solar roads. At what point does
it become most efficient to take all the DC coming
off the road, run it through an inverter and boost
to voltage levels conducive to efficient distribution?
How may INVERTERS PER MILE are called for? How
does one manage variable loads by the various
customers . . . one could funnel generated
electricity to a single town by taxing all that
was available from the nearest surrounding roads.
But at night, or after a big snowfall, that goes
to zero. Filling in the no-sun gaps would require
just as large an over-head system as we have in
place today. Since system reliability is inversely
proportional to parts count, what kind of reliability
numbers might we hope for with what might amount
to a hundred million inverters and 200 trillion
photocells being run over routinely by cars and
dump trucks. Gee, those number roll right off the
tongue really easy . . . I might be missing a
good career in politics.
The video might impress some politicians being
petitioned for a dip into the taxpayer's pockets
but it's not clear to me that this 'idea' has any
more merit in the hard cold cruel realities that
face any supplier of utilities be it electricity,
natural gas, or water.
http://www.bwea.com/ukwed/index.asp
http://www.windturbinesyndrome.com/news/2010/denmark-turning-against-wind-turbines-uk/
Then there's the matter of 'upkeep'. See:
http://webecoist.com/2009/05/04/10-abandoned-renewable-energy-plants/
There's something rather profound about the
probability of success for any new technology.
If it's spins up with risk investor dollars,
failure to produce a profit will effect a
just and timely shutdown of the effort before
$much$ is wasted. Losses are keep to a minimum.
Further, the money wasted was provided by
individuals who presumably knew that there was
risk and were willing/able to assume it.
When the technology is brought to the market
on the back of taxpayer subsidy, then there
are no clear and profound boundaries to define
the point were a bad idea is euthanized. The
source of funds is from individuals who have no
knowledge of how their money is being spent
and they have no choice as to whether to accept
or reject the opportunity to accept the risk.
Further, the losses can go on for a very long
time with little or no public notice. At least
in aviation, the bad ideas eventually catch up
with all the pilots willing to fly them . . .
the problem is self-correcting.
Wonder if the EPA will be as demanding of wind-
farmers as they are on coal-miners. Will the
builders of abandoned or played out 'green' resources
be returned to their natural, pristine states
or will we need another super-fund to gather
up all that junk and get the bases out of the
ground? I wonder how deep those things go.
Color me skeptical.
Aviation has been blessed with a relatively
benign 'touch' by regulators . . . although
it is getting worse. The development side
has remained free to exploit public will and
imagination. This is something we can thank
the Wright brothers for.
We've enjoyed a huge benefit to the DIY aviation
arts and sciences that did NOT originate as the
work-product of a taxpayer funded/subsidized effort.
This relatively 'open source' environment has
built a rich history of recipes for failure
to avoid and recipes for success to exploit.
Our friends soldering arrays of photo-cells
and LEDs together under sheets of glass would
be well advised to dig through the archives
on Westinghouse, Edison, Tesla, and countless
others who would help them put their task into
real world perspective. Some of the engineers
on their team should be excited about the study
of simple-ideas that govern power distribution
and the economics of marketing that power.
The fact that sand is so plentiful and cheap
doesn't necessarily make it the ultimate solution
for keeping our roads flat AND our microwaves
turning out soggy pizza.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Solar Highways (off topic) |
spoilsport.
Wonder if the road could keep itself clear of ice and snow over time.
and so on.
David
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 03:45 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote:
>> OUCH! Mind boggling is right. Think the roads get slick now when
>> it rains? A little oil from the cars, a little rain, and it would
>> make ICE look like your friend.
>>
>> I think I will pass on this one, especially on airport runways. Its
>> those unintended consequences that will get you every time.
>
> Clearly, there are many details begging for
> further attention. I was disappointed too that
> so much whoopie-do was given to signage, etched
> circuit boards, weight sensors, microprocessors
> and other gee-whizzies. They did acknowledge the
> demands placed on a roadway by 18-wheelers traveling
> at highway speeds.
>
> Yes, the planet is blessed with a lot of silicon
> <<<snip>>>
>
>
--
If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid
of Soros.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Shorai LiFePO4 |
There is lots of info on how great these things are and little on the
downside. Unfortunately the following link makes the chemistry sound
unsuitable for an airplane.
manuals.hobbico.com/hca/lifesource-manual-v2.pdf
Ken
On 1/31/2011 12:16 PM, Jan de Jong wrote:
> <jan_de_jong@casema.nl>
>
> Check out "Shorai".
> New light weight Japanese LiFePO4 battery with quite enthousiastic
> motorcyclist customers.
> Works well enough at low temperatures.
> Max. charging current 18A (no external shunts). Higher ratings coming.
> Has a 5 pin plug that I suspect may give access to the 4 cells.
> For our use I might want to monitor max. cell voltage to see <4V or
> interrupt charging.
>
> Cheers,
> Jan de Jong
>
Message 9
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At 04:55 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote:
>Bob, as a 25000+ pilot and a CFI for nearly 50 years the advice you
>give below is the best info I've seen on any of the websites~~I tell
>people to turn our AOA system off if they are in icing, why have an
>instrument give you a bad indication~ I will never heat a vane
>unless the plane is approved for flight in icing conditions.
>Elbie Mendenhall
I've been chided for being too negative about this topic.
There's a relatively popular notion that, "a little bit
of insurance is better than no insurance." But my teachers
and a simple observation of cause/effect of too many accidents
encourages me not to relax on this stance.
My own experience with ice was a single event and with
an instructor on board who KNEW we were collecting.
I was so busy being a whippy IMC pilot that I didn't
notice. The procedures and approach were textbook.
But the airplane fell out of the flare like a rock.
We'd gathered about 1/2" x 3/4" ridge of ice on
the stagnation point of the leading edge which markedly
changed the flying characteristics of the wing.
Nothing on the windshield. But he calculated later
that we'd picked up perhaps 10-20 pounds of ice on
all leading edges. IAS was working fine, I'd
probably lost some prop efficiency but that wasn't
tested because I didn't need to do a go-around.
My instructor told me he had planned to have me
do a missed approach decided that what he was
witnessing outside was as much additional risk
as he was willing to burden our airplane.
Could that same amount of ice contributed to the
well understood SERIES OF CONDITIONS that lead up
to the majority of accidents? Something I was NOT
then smart enough to NOT to test . . . but my
instructor was.
It was years later that I came to the realization
that I COULD have been a fresh holder of an instrument
rating, I COULD have experienced a go-around
event, which would have put me back into that
cloud layer for 10-15 minutes. While I was grinning
ear-to-ear, keeping all the controllers happy and
the needles centered up, the amount of ice on the
wings for second approach might have been another
matter entirely.
He confided in me that a real missed approach condition
would have called for a climb through the cloud
layer followed by a return to Wichita . . . NOT
a second whack at the attempt. That airplane DID
have a pitot heater and I'm sure it was ON. But
other things were stacking up in a way that told
my instructor that the duration of THIS particular
lesson was going to be cut short.
As a tech writer at Cessna I got to write the POH
and maintenance manual sections for electrically heated
props, de-ice boots, heated windshield patches,
and yes, heated pitot tubes. After all that prose
and poetry about how things were suppose to work
(and would most of the time), the proper advice
to pilots was, "No matter what kind of ice you're
in RIGHT now, you have no way to know what the ice
is like 5 miles ahead. Yes, do turn on all the
insurance you can muster and get the hell out of
there."
I've watched ice gathering on the leading edge
of an engine nacelle on a 727 in climb-out. After
about 30 seconds and perhaps 1/2 inch of build up,
I was just starting to worry about it. It suddenly
disappeared in a flash of vapor. Now THAT is what
I call de-icing! Unless the machine you fly is similarly
equipped . . . well . . . what else needs to be said?
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Fwd: Solar Highways (off topic) |
Thanks Bob & the original poster for this interesting little diversion. Let
me add to it with this link:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/making-stuff-cleaner.html
It's to a PBS Nova program last week, part 3 of a 4 part series loosely
classified as materials science. This particular issue includes an
interesting segment with our own Bill Dube and his Killocycle zero to sixty
in 1 second electric motorcycle, plus other interesting speculation about
new energy technologies.
I also appreciate Bob's comments about the economics of innovative ideas. It
often strikes me that the biggest stumbling block to getting new ideas to
market is the government. If they aren't pushing ethanol or wind power
fiascos, they are regulating other ideas into oblivion.
Terry
Message 11
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| Subject: | Fwd: Solar Highways (off topic) |
>I also appreciate Bob's comments about the economics of innovative ideas. It
>often strikes me that the biggest stumbling block to getting new ideas to
>market is the government. If they aren't pushing ethanol or wind power
>fiascos, they are regulating other ideas into oblivion.
It's easy to find fault with government. They are
after all the most visible practitioners of the
the art of wishing, writing it down, making it
law and decreeing that. "yeah verily, it shall be so."
We bemoan the drag on truly innovative and useful
efforts . . . but they have the same effects on the
not-so-useful endeavors too.
The true test of an idea is conducted in the free-
market exchange of value where both individuals of
every exchange walks away thinking that THEY got
the better part of the deal. BOTH exchange something
they valued less for something they valued more.
The experiment to be repeated is with dozens, hundreds or
millions of such exchanges. This demonstrates the economics
of that exchange. LOTS of folks choosing to make the trade
can at least put down a milestone for a fad (hula hoops
and pet rocks). Carry it out for years, decades or centuries
(hard drives and 16-penny nails) and we can say with
confidence that the producers are adding good value to
the lives of their fellow citizens.
The vast majority of all new businesses fail in the
first five years . . . and they were doing that before
the regulators decided to offer so much 'help'. This is
the result of the market place making a value decision
on whether or not to spend its money on a particular
product.
How many kit or plans-built airplanes have gone TU or
never got into production? What made and RV stand out
over say a Thorp? Both are great performing, all metal
airplanes. But they're certainly marketed differently.
Take a look at the list of experimental airplanes here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_experimental_aircraft
Many of those made it to production but not based on
the personal desires and expendable resources of the
end user. Governments can spend what ever they want to
get certain performance goals. This is not free-market
exchange. I looked for a listing of amateur-built designs
but couldn't find one . . . but my recollection is that
there are certainly hundreds of designs or proposed
designs that never flew, only a handful were built, etc.
Why? Because the free-market customer (you guys) were
looking for a good performing alternative to what a
C-172 could do for you. Hopefully at a fraction of the
cost and minimum of regulatory busy-work that only
serves to drive up cost of ownership. Further, it was
a POWERFUL incentive to buy if that experiment had been
successfully repeated for years and hundreds of experiences.
It takes more than a "better mousetrap" to bring people
to your door. It takes an end-to-end understanding and
skill for what's necessary to conceive, develop, produce,
market and support any successful product. If John Thorp
had both the vision and drive possessed by Richard
VanGrunsven, then perhaps many of you would be working
on T-22s and 24s instead of RV8s and 10s.
The fact that any regulatory agency chooses to inject
itself between suppliers and consumers only serves to
drive up costs of acquisition/ownership for any particular
commodity. When those costs take the glow off of a
desire for ownership, the future for that commodity is
damaged. Intervention in the free market can sour the
economics of a good idea and artificially bolster
the status of mediocre or even bad product. There
MAY come a day when the cost of electricity from legacy
energy sources will be so high that wind-power begins
to make sense . . . else the lights go out. But right
now, trying to push wind-power into what used to be
a really reliable, low-cost commodity market has done
nothing but drive up the costs of that commodity while
wasting $billions$ in funds that could be better spent
elsewhere.
Present trends plotted into the future say that our
own bastion of technological and philosophical
freedom will come under increasing attack. I really
think the only reason it has taken so long is because
we (the OBAM aviation community) is so tiny a proportion
of the population. But without a change in course,
our time is coming.
The EPA could decree tomorrow that non-commercial
flight after a certain date be done with electric
propulsion. And what's to stop them? How many of
our fellow citizens would feel compelled to rise in
protest of our plight? Maybe we could get Congress
to accept a bargain: "Hey guys, we'll go to all
electric airplanes as soon as the first 100 miles
of photo-voltaic, glass highway goes into service.
Oh yeah, we'll need photo-voltaic landing strips
every 100 miles or so to stop and recharge the
batteries."
Bob . . .
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