---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/08/11: 44 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:58 AM - Transponder durability? (WurlyBird) 2. 05:10 AM - Re: Battery box being demanded (RayStL) 3. 05:28 AM - Re: Pitot Heat (tomcostanza) 4. 05:30 AM - Re: Battery box being demanded (Noel Loveys) 5. 05:36 AM - Re: Battery box being demanded (Ken) 6. 05:44 AM - Re: Transponder durability? (Richard Girard) 7. 05:56 AM - Re: Transponder durability? (WurlyBird) 8. 06:01 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Heat (Andrew Zachar) 9. 06:02 AM - Re: Re: Battery box being demanded (Noel Loveys) 10. 06:04 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Heat (Mike Welch) 11. 06:04 AM - Re: Re: Battery box being demanded (Noel Loveys) 12. 06:22 AM - GPS Jamming (Bill Bradburry) 13. 06:37 AM - Re: Transponder durability? (Mike Welch) 14. 06:39 AM - Re: Re: Transponder durability? (Jerald Folkerts) 15. 06:39 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Heat (Ed Anderson) 16. 06:44 AM - Re: ANL height, help please. (Ernest Kells) 17. 06:45 AM - Re: GPS Jamming (Harley) 18. 06:51 AM - Re: Transponder durability? (Jared Yates) 19. 08:06 AM - Re: Transponder durability? (WurlyBird) 20. 08:10 AM - Battery box being demanded () 21. 08:17 AM - Re: Shorai LiFePO4 (Ken) 22. 08:39 AM - Creative thievery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 23. 08:47 AM - Re: Battery box being demanded (RayStL) 24. 09:49 AM - Re: Re: Battery box being demanded (Bill Boyd) 25. 09:50 AM - OT: Creative thievery (Ralph & Maria Finch) 26. 09:50 AM - Re: Battery box being demanded (Noel Loveys) 27. 09:55 AM - Re: GPS Jamming (Noel Loveys) 28. 10:12 AM - Re:Stereo Headsets (Franz Fux) 29. 10:12 AM - Re: GPS Jamming (Bill Boyd) 30. 10:16 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Heat (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 31. 10:25 AM - Re: Re: Battery box being demanded (TERRY MORTIMORE) 32. 10:36 AM - Re: OT: Creative thievery (Henador Titzoff) 33. 10:39 AM - Re: OT: Creative thievery (Jae Chang) 34. 10:52 AM - In defence of the eBay community (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 35. 11:01 AM - Re: Re:Stereo Headsets (Kenneth Melvin) 36. 11:38 AM - Re: Battery box being demanded (RayStL) 37. 12:46 PM - Re: OT: Creative thievery (MLWynn@aol.com) 38. 12:51 PM - Re: In defence of the eBay community (Mike Welch) 39. 01:03 PM - Re: In defence of the eBay community (James Robinson) 40. 01:42 PM - Re: Re: Pitot Heat (BobsV35B@aol.com) 41. 03:37 PM - Re: In defence of the eBay community (earl_schroeder@juno.com) 42. 04:21 PM - {Spam?} Re: Shorai LiFePO4 (Jan de Jong) 43. 04:24 PM - heatshrink (Mike Welch) 44. 04:30 PM - Re: Re: Pitot Heat (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:36 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Transponder durability? From: "WurlyBird" Hi all, I am new on this list but I have been on the Matronics Kitfox list for a while and one of the guys there recommend I come over here for some more serious electrical questions. I am shopping for a transponder for my Kitfox and my allotted budget mandates a used unit. The biggest question I have is just how durable, rugged, or fragile are transponders? I am shopping Barnstormers and Ebay and continually find units that will fit budget/panel/taste in the $6-800 range and many of them are not recently tested and I am unfamiliar so I do not know how picky to be. Any advice on shopping like this would be appreciated. Several people advertise having 8130s for the electronics and I don't know if this should be a necessity for me or even if it will guarantee functionality, theoretically it should but we are talking about online third party dealers so who know, right. In case the question arises, I am looking to put a transponder in because I fly out of a military bases class D and they will be more inclined to let me use their corridors if I am squawking. I also want the ability to fly down to Nashville and terrorize the ATC with my 70 kt cruise. Flight following will also be nice since I like to just puts around the countryside with no destination. Thanks for the help. -------- James Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA 50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments, now she lies in wait Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330119#330119 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:10:25 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded From: "RayStL" An STC of an equivalent installation might be the easiest way to convince. I think that would be an unvented AGM inside the cabin. I see there are some under seat Cub STC's that might do. Does anyone have details. If so then I just need to convince him that my battery is equivalent to that specified. --ray -------- Ray St-Laurent 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330122#330122 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:46 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Heat From: "tomcostanza" Let me play devil's advocate here. As a student pilot, on a cold winter morning, after a thorough pre-flight, I took off on a practice xcountry with my instructor. The airspeed indicator failed after a few seconds of climbing, and stayed that way until landing. We both assumed that some melted frost made its way into the pitot, and then froze when we got some altitude. I made a very exciting cross wind landing in gusty conditions with no airspeed indicator. A heated pitot, even an underpowered one, would, I believe, have made it much less exciting. I got a 24V heated pitot for about $25. I'm putting it in my 12V airplane. I put an eyedropper full of water in it and put it in the freezer for a day. Later I heated it with 12V and the ice melted in less than 30 seconds. Granted the freezer didn't duplicate icing conditions, but as Bob said, if you're in icing conditions, you'll need more than a heated pitot. It may be a placebo, but at a cost of $25, it won't be any worse than a non-heated version. I'm sure a 25000+ hour pilot can fly an airplane with only a compass and an oil pressure gauge. But as a 200 hour wimpy VFR pilot, I'll feel safer. -------- Clear Skies, Tom Costanza Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330124#330124 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:32 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Battery box being demanded The problem is that specs here in Canada seldom if ever keep up with technology. The best thing to do is get yourself a box similar to either Tupperware or Rubbermaid which loosely fits the battery then add into the box some Styrofoam as bump protection. What he is looking for is containment of the acid and a possible short circuit in case of an accident. An installation which can withstand a minimum of 3G forward acceleration is also important for anything in or behind the panel. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RayStL Sent: February 7, 2011 8:12 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery box being demanded Help. I have a homebuilt CH701. A DOT Inspector (Canada) is trying to force me to retrofit a battery box on my sealed Power Sonic battery attached to the cockpit side of the firewall. I need to convince him it complies with an applicable aviation standard. I am having a hard time finding anything concrete out there. Any suggestions? Thanks. --ray -------- Ray St-Laurent 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330059#330059 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:33 AM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery box being demanded Would he be amenable to discussing this with an MDRA inspector since MDRA does most of the amateur built Canadian inspections? My MDRA inspector never batted an eyelash even with one of my AGM batteries sitting on its side on the cockpit side of the firewall. An MOT inspector may not be familiar with AGM technology as they don't usually do initial inspections. I was under the impression that a battery vent port had to be routed overboard when it was in a battery box?? Impossible to do when the battery doesn't even have a vent port. Does Concord say anything about boxes for their certified AGM batteries? When dealing with bureaucracy it might be just as well to fabricate a temporary box but then I suppose this guy might want flow through box venting if he looks at it closely. Remove the electrical system temporarily? ;( Ken On 2/7/2011 6:41 PM, RayStL wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > "RayStL" > > Help. I have a homebuilt CH701. A DOT Inspector (Canada) is trying to > force me to retrofit a battery box on my sealed Power Sonic battery > attached to the cockpit side of the firewall. I need to convince > him it complies with an applicable aviation standard. I am having a > hard time finding anything concrete out there. Any suggestions? > > Thanks. --ray > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Transponder durability? From: Richard Girard James, It's caveat emptor for anything off Ebay. If you assume it's junk, roughly 75% of the time you will be right. Be especially aware of "I'm selling this for a friend" deals. Too many horror stories. There's also the danger that it's stolen. If I were in your position, I would first join my local EAA chapter and ask around there. If nothing else you can probably get a recommendation to a good avionics shop. Otherwise, hit up your local avionics shops and ask about used, tested, and up to date. Rick Girard On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 6:54 AM, WurlyBird wrote: > james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil> > > Hi all, I am new on this list but I have been on the Matronics Kitfox list > for a while and one of the guys there recommend I come over here for some > more serious electrical questions. I am shopping for a transponder for my > Kitfox and my allotted budget mandates a used unit. The biggest question I > have is just how durable, rugged, or fragile are transponders? I am > shopping Barnstormers and Ebay and continually find units that will fit > budget/panel/taste in the $6-800 range and many of them are not recently > tested and I am unfamiliar so I do not know how picky to be. Any advice on > shopping like this would be appreciated. Several people advertise having > 8130s for the electronics and I don't know if this should be a necessity for > me or even if it will guarantee functionality, theoretically it should but > we are talking about online third party dealers so who know, right. > > In case the question arises, I am looking to put a transponder in because I > fly out of a military bases class D and they will be more inclined to let me > use their corridors if I am squawking. I also want the ability to fly down > to Nashville and terrorize the ATC with my 70 kt cruise. Flight following > will also be nice since I like to just puts around the countryside with no > destination. > > Thanks for the help. > > -------- > James > Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA > 50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments, > now she lies in wait > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330119#330119 > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:32 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transponder durability? From: "WurlyBird" I hear what you are saying about Ebay, Rick. I am hoping to have a box full of parts and projects waiting for me when I get home (currently deployed) and the transponder is one of very few that can be considered "serious." I have never messed with avionics so I am completely unfamiliar with their survivability when removed and stored and whatever else. To the other point, I have joined the EAA, finally, but there is no local chapter where I live. There are about 4 within an hour and a half of where I live so I will try to make it to a meeting at each and join one. This will probably take me several months to complete though. -------- James Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA 50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments, now she lies in wait Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330130#330130 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:58 AM PST US From: Andrew Zachar Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Heat Agreed. In the flight test world, we use heated pitot for not just ice protection, but also to aid in moisture evaporation. Can't let any moisture get into our precious pressure transducers, and a heated tip does the trick. __ Andrew Zachar andrew.d.zachar@gmail.com On Feb 8, 2011, at 8:25 AM, "tomcostanza" wrote: Snip... > it won't be any worse than a non-heated version. > > I'm sure a 25000+ hour pilot can fly an airplane with only a compass and an oil pressure gauge. But as a 200 hour wimpy VFR pilot, I'll feel safer. > > -------- > Clear Skies, > Tom Costanza ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:28 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded Ok here it is: 549.5 Construction (a) Aircraft, including those supplied in kit form, will be designated as amateur-built aircraft, where the major portion of the aircraft (more than 50%) is fabricated from raw material and assembled by an individual or a group of individuals on a non-commercial, non-production basis for educational or recreational purposes Information Note: (Ref. AMA 549/1A, para. 5). (b) Methods of fabrication and assembly, and workmanship shall be appropriate and should conform to accepted aviation standard practices. >From this what he wants to see is the fact you and any other owners of the kit did more than 50 % of the construction of the plane. If the Plane is a kit then all you need is the paperwork from the kit supplier stating that more than 50% of the work to build must be done by the builder to complete the plane. Most, if not all U.S. kits will pass this requirement. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RayStL Sent: February 8, 2011 2:16 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded Here are his words... "you have not provided specific "accepted aviation standard practices" references or documentationrequired to meet Canadian Aviation Regulation Standard 549.5(b). " I am not sure what the FAR equivalent is. --ray -------- Ray St-Laurent 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330101#330101 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:20 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Heat > I got a 24V heated pitot for about $25. I'm putting it in my 12V airplan e. > Clear Skies=2C > Tom Costanza Tom=2C It sounds as if you've made up your mind=2C and if peace of mind is what you're after=2C you are the one that gets to make that choice. The only thing I would caution=2C though=2C is make absolutely sure you w ire it like it was originally wired. Find out if the probe was intended to be 'always hot'=2C if if it had some way to regulate it's heating. The reason I mention this is I read a few days ago how the Dynon heated p robe uses a microprocessor to heat the tip. I'm simply suggesting you should make sure the probe you have doesn't use the same type of circuitry. Here's the reference to the Dynon heated probe I was referring to=3B Heating: Principles of Operation This much-anticipated heated version of Dynon=92s AOA/Pitot Probe utilizes a heating mechanism unlike any other heated pitot on the market. The probe is heated by a high-quality nichrome heating element whose temperature is a ccurately measured and regulated by a microprocessor-based controller. This controller=97located in an enclosure which can be mounted in a wing or els ewhere=97regulates the heat at the tip of the probe to a constant temperatu re. There are several advantages to this=2C including: lower power consumpt ion=2C increased heating element lifespan=2C and a much cooler pitot on the ground when de-icing is not necessary. This unique technique ensures that the pitot can be rapidly de-iced when required=2C but does not needlessly w aste electricity when not in icing conditions. While the probe does not operate like a normal heated pitot=2C it will stil l get fairly hot in normal ambient temperatures. When turned on=2C it will regulate its internal temperature to about 70=B0C to 80=B0C. To ensure that the heater is working=2C briefly touch the end of the pitot farthest from the snout after 1 minute of operation and verify that it is warm. Since you are the one who is going to fly your plane=2C you should be com fortable with your choices=2C just make sure they are good choices. Mike Welch ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:20 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded Just noticed in your case you have a CH 701 with Pegastol wings... You may need two certificates for the 50% rule. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RayStL Sent: February 8, 2011 2:16 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded Here are his words... "you have not provided specific "accepted aviation standard practices" references or documentationrequired to meet Canadian Aviation Regulation Standard 549.5(b). " I am not sure what the FAR equivalent is. --ray -------- Ray St-Laurent 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330101#330101 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:52 AM PST US From: "Bill Bradburry" Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS Jamming Someone please tell me this is not true! Bill B FCC Approves GPS-jamming transmitters Federal Communications Commission gives the green light to 40,000 broadband transmitters that would cripple GPS navigation. 26 January 2011 =C3=A2=82=AC=9D The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) has approved a company called LightSquared Communications to install up to 40,000 high-powered, land-based broadband transmitters that broadcast in the band directly adjacent to the GPS frequencies. It has been found that these transmitters would have a disastrous effect upon aviation GPS receivers such as the popular Garmin GNS 430W. In testing, the receivers began to be jammed at 13.8 miles from each transmitter site, and navigation was effectively shut down at 5.6 miles from each site. Automotive units such as the Nuvi did a little better. The approval was moved rapidly through the approval process, and the approval was made despite industry representatives' pleas to evaluate the transmitters further. [ Read the Full Article >> ] More information, including contact numbers for the lawmakers who are involved in the approval process can be found here: GPS Community Urged to Contact Congress. The FCC's Chief of the International Bureau, Mindel De La Torre, was not swayed by the protests of the GPS manufacturers; perhaps she would be influenced by a whole bunch of respectful, concerned citizens who wrote to her at Mindel.DeLaTorre@fcc.gov, or called her office at 202-418-0437. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:15 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Transponder durability? James=2C Rick Gerard is correct about eBay. I bought my King KT76 off eBay=2C and it was supposedly recently certified and came with a yellow tag. All this was a l ie!!! It was not recently inspected=2C because it was missing the ident button. I had to end up sending it to an avionics repairman to have it properly fixed!! However=2C there are many very reputable avionics repair shops on eBay=2C too. For my GlaStar=2C I bought a very nice condition Narco AT150=2C and it DID come with a proper repair order (from a very famous avionics shop) (but the pri ce wasn't any better than I could have gotten locally=2C either) If I needed to buy a reasonably priced=2C used piece of avionics hardware today=2C I'd find my local avionics shop=2C and see what he had! eBay prices will N OT be any better than your local guy=2C and he ought to help you if there is a pr oblem. Your best deal will be being able to hold in your hand your favorite transp onder=2C and haggle over the price with the guy on the other side of the counter! I n addition to selling you the transponder=2C he can also make sure you have all the pe ripheral stuff=2C like the tray=2C the pins and connector=2C and he could likely mak e your antenna cable. BTW=2C regarding selling stolen stuff on eBay=2C here is the scam I heard that the thieves do=3B Some lowlife SOB walks a ramp looking into windows of planes. He spots TWO exact same models of....let's say transponders. He pops the door open=2C t ake one out=2C and then heads over to the second plane. Next=2C he pops the door o pen on the second plane=2C and then slides out the second transponder!! Now=2C he slides the first transponder into the second plane!! Clever! The second plane owner has a transponder=2C and never think twice about it=2C even tho ugh it's stolen. He never reports anything=2C because he doesn't know a thing. So=2C airplane owner #1 calls and reports a stolen transponder and furnis hes a serial number (of the transponder in plane #2). In the meantime=2C SOB thief guy puts transponder #2 on eBay=2C and knows no one suspects a thing=2C because they aren't looking for this transponder=2C the y're looking for the transponder in plane #2. Ingenius thieves!! Mike Welch Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Transponder durability? From: aslsa.rng@gmail.com James=2C It's caveat emptor for anything off Ebay. If you assume it's junk =2C roughly 75% of the time you will be right. Be especially aware of "I'm selling this for a friend" deals. Too many horror stories. There's also the danger that it's stolen. If I were in your position=2C I would first join my local EAA chapter and ask around there. If nothing else you can probably get a recommendation to a good avionics shop. Otherwise=2C hit up your loc al avionics shops and ask about used=2C tested=2C and up to date. Rick Girard On Tue=2C Feb 8=2C 2011 at 6:54 AM=2C WurlyBird wrote: rmy.mil> Hi all=2C I am new on this list but I have been on the Matronics Kitfox lis t for a while and one of the guys there recommend I come over here for some more serious electrical questions. I am shopping for a transponder for my Kitfox and my allotted budget mandates a used unit. The biggest question I have is just how durable=2C rugged=2C or fragile are transponders? I am shopping Barnstormers and Ebay and continually find units that will fit bud get/panel/taste in the $6-800 range and many of them are not recently teste d and I am unfamiliar so I do not know how picky to be. Any advice on shop ping like this would be appreciated. Several people advertise having 8130s for the electronics and I don't know if this should be a necessity for me or even if it will guarantee functionality=2C theoretically it should but w e are talking about online third party dealers so who know=2C right. In case the question arises=2C I am looking to put a transponder in because I fly out of a military bases class D and they will be more inclined to le t me use their corridors if I am squawking. I also want the ability to fly down to Nashville and terrorize the ATC with my 70 kt cruise. Flight foll owing will also be nice since I like to just puts around the countryside wi th no destination. Thanks for the help. -------- James Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70"=3B IVO 2 blade GA 50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments=2C now she lies in wait Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330119#330119 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-Li st http://forums.matronics.com le=2C List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks=2C Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:19 AM PST US From: "Jerald Folkerts" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transponder durability? James, I'm starting to consider my options as well. I'm trying hard to stay within a budget and working to ensure I only include what I need for the type of flying I'm anticipating. I've found there are good options for used avionics from several respected vendors, i.e. Gulf Coast Avionics, Bennett Avionics just to name a couple. You'll find that when certified airplanes upgrade to glass and Class S transponders, there are good deals out there. In some cases, these vendors will also sell reconditioned avionics with warranty's. One example I've looked at is a Reconditioned King KT-76A Transponder. Many of the vendors are selling these for approximately $695.00. I haven't made any decisions yet, but have just been searching various options. The above is also not to recommend any specific vendor, but only to illustrate what is available. Also remember, on some of these you have to add an encoder. Regards, Jerry Folkerts SR2500 #093 -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WurlyBird Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:54 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transponder durability? I hear what you are saying about Ebay, Rick. I am hoping to have a box full of parts and projects waiting for me when I get home (currently deployed) and the transponder is one of very few that can be considered "serious." I have never messed with avionics so I am completely unfamiliar with their survivability when removed and stored and whatever else. To the other point, I have joined the EAA, finally, but there is no local chapter where I live. There are about 4 within an hour and a half of where I live so I will try to make it to a meeting at each and join one. This will probably take me several months to complete though. -------- James Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA 50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments, now she lies in wait Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330130#330130 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:19 AM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Heat I fly with an heated pitot tube in my Rv-6A - and glad I do. Through exercising poor judgment, I found myself in IMC conditions over Northen Georgia at 8500 MSL in clouds. I had thought to "punch through" a thin line of clouds to get to the clear cold high pressure area behind a cold front. After a couple of minutes on the gauges, better judgment prevailed and I turned 180 to get back out of IMC conditions. I noticed ice forming on the leading edge of my canopy and then on the wing in front of the fuel caps. I belatedly remembered I had pitot heat and turned it on - approx 5-10 seconds later the airspeed indicator gave a blip from near zero back to reasonable indicated (I suspect that was a slug of moisture that a few seconds eariler had been ice forming on the pilot tube). The gauges and GPS got me head backs in the right direction and several tense minutes later I broke out of IMC conditions and made a landing to spend the night. A bit shaken and vowing never to try to "punch though" again, I was very appreciative of my heated pitot tube. In all my 10 years of flying with it - that was the first time I had ever turned it on in flight. So perhaps not essential for an VFR pilot - I personally do not see any down side (other than money and a bit of weight) to having one. FWIW Ed -------------------------------------------------- From: "tomcostanza" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:25 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Heat > > > Let me play devil's advocate here. > > As a student pilot, on a cold winter morning, after a thorough pre-flight, > I took off on a practice xcountry with my instructor. The airspeed > indicator failed after a few seconds of climbing, and stayed that way > until landing. We both assumed that some melted frost made its way into > the pitot, and then froze when we got some altitude. I made a very > exciting cross wind landing in gusty conditions with no airspeed > indicator. A heated pitot, even an underpowered one, would, I believe, > have made it much less exciting. > > I got a 24V heated pitot for about $25. I'm putting it in my 12V > airplane. I put an eyedropper full of water in it and put it in the > freezer for a day. Later I heated it with 12V and the ice melted in less > than 30 seconds. Granted the freezer didn't duplicate icing conditions, > but as Bob said, if you're in icing conditions, you'll need more than a > heated pitot. It may be a placebo, but at a cost of $25, it won't be any > worse than a non-heated version. > > I'm sure a 25000+ hour pilot can fly an airplane with only a compass and > an oil pressure gauge. But as a 200 hour wimpy VFR pilot, I'll feel > safer. > > -------- > Clear Skies, > Tom Costanza > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330124#330124 > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:57 AM PST US From: Ernest Kells Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ANL height, help please. Hello, Terry: Have you tried calling B&C Speciality about this. Seems to me that they have the knowledge. I have, on several occasions called ACS in Georgia with questions like this. They always mean well and usually have/will find out the answer for me. I have always kept the shipping papers in case there is any issues with a lawsuit, etc. Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Mortimore" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:25 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: ANL height, help please. > > > > Hi Gang: > > I was hoping to make some progress this week on my electrical system > installation. The one thing I was waiting for from B&C Specialty products > to let me carry on was not shipped. Not sure if I forgot to order it, or > it fell throught the cracks somehow. > > I needed the ANL covered base and ANL fuse, I recieved the fuse but not > the base. I need to know how high the base sits so I can finish bending > the copper bus bar to fit. > > Does somebody out there know how high above the firewall surface the studs > sit? I would have to add the thickness of the ANL fuse itself, but I have > that information. > > > Thanks in advance, Terry. > > > Terry Mortimore > 426 McNabb Street Apt#4 > Sault Ste Marie, Ontario > P6B 1Z3 > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:47 AM PST US From: Harley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS Jamming This is partially true...the interference possibilities were discovered during the required lab testing of the devices, and none have yet been deployed. The FCC is looking into this and is requiring Lightsquared to correct the matter before deploying the devices. They have until June 15th to reply. Here's an excerpt from the FCC statement: "LightSquared is further required to submit a final report no later than June 15, 2011, that includes the working groups analyses of the potential for overload interference to GPS devices from LightSquareds terrestrial network of base stations, technical and operational steps to avoid such interference, and specific recommendations going forward to mitigate potential interference to GPS devices. The Bureau reserves the right to adjust the reporting dates and requirements in consultation with NTIA. The process will be complete once the Commission, after consultation with NTIA, concludes that the harmful interference concerns have been resolved and sends a letter to LightSquared stating that the process is complete. Harley ----------------------------------------------------------------- On 2/8/2011 9:15 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote: > > Someone please tell me this is not true! > > Bill B > > *FCC Approves GPS-jamming transmitters * > *Federal Communications Commission gives the green light to > 40,000 broadband transmitters that would cripple GPS navigation.* > > *26 January2011 The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) > has approved a company called LightSquared Communications to > install up to 40,000 high-powered, land-based broadband > transmitters that broadcast in the band directly adjacent to > the GPS frequencies. It has been found that these transmitters > would have a disastrous effect upon aviation GPS receivers such > as the popular Garmin GNS 430W. In testing, the receivers began > to be jammed at 13.8 miles from each transmitter site, and > navigation was effectively shut down at 5.6 miles from each > site. Automotive units such as the Nuvi did a little better.* > > The approval was moved rapidly through the approval process, > and the approval was made despite industry representatives' > pleas to evaluate the transmitters further. > > [ Read the Full Article >> > > ] > > More information, including contact numbers for the lawmakers > who are involved in the approval process can be found here: GPS > Community Urged to Contact Congress > . > > The FCC's Chief of the International Bureau, Mindel De La > Torre, was not swayed by the protests of the GPS manufacturers; > perhaps she would be influenced by a whole bunch of respectful, > concerned citizens who wrote to her at Mindel.DeLaTorre@fcc.gov > , > or called her office at 202-418-0437. > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Transponder durability? From: Jared Yates I've been watching and bidding on avionics on ebay for the past two years or so, and in several cases I've had notices that my bids were cancelled because ebay determined that the auction was fradulent. Be really careful! I would trust someone like wentworth in their ebay auctions because I know that they are also a legitimate aviation company. Look at the seller's other auctions, and be very wary of a seller who has no other avionics or aviation related listings. Scammers will get the passwords of ebay users through email phishing, then make a listing for something expensive. Avionics are a great subject for them, since we aviation folks generally trust each other pretty well, and since the selling prices are relatively high. Another good option is to deal with someone who you can visit in person to pay and pick up. Use the geographic search filters. If they refuse to allow a local pickup, or if there is talk about a buy-it-now price in the description that is too good to be true, report the auction and move on. On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 8:39 AM, Richard Girard wrote: > James, It's caveat emptor for anything off Ebay. If you assume it's junk, > roughly 75% of the time you will be right. Be especially aware of "I'm > selling this for a friend" deals. Too many horror stories. There's also the > danger that it's stolen. If I were in your position, I would first join my > local EAA chapter and ask around there. If nothing else you can probably get > a recommendation to a good avionics shop. Otherwise, hit up your local > avionics shops and ask about used, tested, and up to date. > > Rick Girard > > On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 6:54 AM, WurlyBird wrote: > >> james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil> >> >> Hi all, I am new on this list but I have been on the Matronics Kitfox list >> for a while and one of the guys there recommend I come over here for some >> more serious electrical questions. I am shopping for a transponder for my >> Kitfox and my allotted budget mandates a used unit. The biggest question I >> have is just how durable, rugged, or fragile are transponders? I am >> shopping Barnstormers and Ebay and continually find units that will fit >> budget/panel/taste in the $6-800 range and many of them are not recently >> tested and I am unfamiliar so I do not know how picky to be. Any advice on >> shopping like this would be appreciated. Several people advertise having >> 8130s for the electronics and I don't know if this should be a necessity for >> me or even if it will guarantee functionality, theoretically it should but >> we are talking about online third party dealers so who know, right. >> >> In case the question arises, I am looking to put a transponder in because >> I fly out of a military bases class D and they will be more inclined to let >> me use their corridors if I am squawking. I also want the ability to fly >> down to Nashville and terrorize the ATC with my 70 kt cruise. Flight >> following will also be nice since I like to just puts around the countryside >> with no destination. >> >> Thanks for the help. >> >> -------- >> James >> Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA >> 50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments, >> now she lies in wait >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330119#330119 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> -List" target="_blank"> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Zulu Delta > Mk IIIC > Thanks, Homer GBYM > > It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. > - Groucho Marx > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:03 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transponder durability? From: "WurlyBird" I hate to admit it but I have been taken a time or two on Ebay, fortunately never on anything significant in price though. I do know well enough to research the sellers too. There are quite a few sellers that specialize in avionics with good (100%) feedback. That is reassuring but not to a fault. I hate for this thread to revolve solely on Ebay though as I also keep my eyes on Barnstormers and have emailed several avionics companies from there but always too late to get the item. To kind of narrow the conversation a little I will rephrase my big concerns. How delicate are transponders as far as electronics go? The process seems simple enough. The antenna receives the interrogation and transmits the transponders discreet code on the set ATC freq, including alt if an encoder is wired in. So basically there is a receiver on a set freq, a transmitter on a set freq, and two encoders which dictate the transmission. So where does the failure usually occur? In a proper installation used for a long time, does anything wear out? Transmitter, amp, fingamadoohicky? Are they easy to damage during normal install and removal? When they do get old are repairs prohibitively expensive causing an older unit to cost more then a new? Are there any ways besides just shopping online to really get an idea of what used avionics are worth? Knowing that line of what is to good to be true has been a big help to me in the past. Most likely I will just wait until I get home, but asking questions like this and getting GA educated is how I keep myself entertained over here. Thanks again all. -------- James Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA 50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments, now she lies in wait Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330160#330160 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:21 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery box being demanded 2/8/2011 Hello Fellow Builders, Ray St-Laurent wrote: "I need to convince him it complies with an applicable aviation standard." Ray, you might go through this Concorde RG7 SERIES AIRCRAFT BATTERY OWNER/OPERATOR MANUAL for aircraft RG batteries and find enough evidence to convince your inspector. Please let us know how you make out. http://www.concordebattery.com/otherpdf/5-0324-rg-manual.pdf Bob Taylor wrote: "Would it be reasonable for you to ask the good inspector the applicable aviation standard to which you were in violation?" and Ray responded: "Here are his words..."you have not provided specific "accepted aviation standard practices" references or documentation required to meet Canadian Aviation Regulation Standard 549.5(b)." Here is what Part V - Airworthiness Manual Chapter 549 - Amateur-Built Aircraft 549.5(b) says: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/regserv/cars/part5-standards-549-sub-a-1785.htm Note that the word "experimental" does not appear in this Part V. I have two questions: A) I wonder if the very first composite construction amateur built aircraft in Canada met their then existing "accepted aviation standard practices" ? B) I wonder if Ray's Suzuki engine meets Canadian "accepted aviation standard practices"? I am grateful to the EAA and many amateur building predecessors here in the USA that I don't have to abide by Canadian regulations. 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." PS: I have an Odyssey PC-680 RG battery in my KIS TR-1 baggage compartment behind the right seat. No battery box per se, just sound structural mounting. ========================================================== Time: 05:06:44 PM PST US From: "Robert Taylor" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery box being demanded Would it be reasonable for you to ask the good inspector the applicable aviation standard to which you were in violation? This would save some time and would give him the opportunity to "disengage". Just askin'. Bob Taylor TigerCub N657RT -------------------------------------------------- From: "RayStL" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 6:41 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery box being demanded > > Help. I have a homebuilt CH701. A DOT Inspector (Canada) is trying to > force me to retrofit a battery box on my sealed Power Sonic battery > attached to the cockpit side of the firewall. I need to convince him it > complies with an applicable aviation standard. I am having a hard time > finding anything concrete out there. Any suggestions? > > Thanks. > --ray > > -------- > Ray St-Laurent > 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:58 AM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Shorai LiFePO4 thanks Jan My outstanding concern is what is the worst case risk of rupturing a cell after extended times (occasionally 8 hour days) at 14.5 volts with no cell balancing? It sounds like a ruptured cell could be bad news. If that was not a concern then I'd be willing to experiment with some equalization and temperature monitoring for long x-country flights if that substantially extended the service life. My batteries sit between my rudder pedals. I need electricity to keep the engine running but aircraft integrity and breathable air to keep me running is even more important. I will be watching the motorcycle experience as well. Life expectancy is not a concern for me to try them but failure modes definitely are. Please keep posting any further info. Ken On 2/7/2011 7:25 AM, Jan de Jong wrote: > > > Hi Ken, > > Re http://manuals.hobbico.com/hca/lifesource-manual-v2.pdf > It sure sounds ominous. > Let me think of some reasons why it may be too ominous. > - the hobbico batteries regularly crash to earth - it is part of their job > (in a real airplane a battery would crash at most once and even then be > more protected as part of a larger object; > thanks to its light weight it may well stay in its designated place too; > if it is not physically damaged there is no danger; the chemistry needs > more than 900 'C to burn) > - the hobbico batteries are composed of random cells of the same > manufacture > (the Shorai battery cells may be designed/manufactured/selected to be > part of the same battery) > - the hobby user may be suspected of not appreciating the energy > contained in so light a package > (we do a one-time carefully considered installation with switches and > contactors all around) > - a cya component > > My concern is mostly whether in our normal use where we keep our > batteries generally fully charged with something close enough to the > required CC/CV regime the cells of a LFP battery will over time always > converge in state of charge. > > It will be interesting to see how the motorcyclists will be doing with > that. > > Jan de Jong > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:18 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Creative thievery > Now, he slides the first transponder into the second > plane!! Clever! The second >plane owner has a transponder, and never think twice about it, even >though it's stolen. >He never reports anything, because he doesn't know a thing. Creative thievery is certainly on the rise. Friend of mine turned me on to a line of "tennies" being stocked by Walmart that had steel toes for about $30. Went in to check them out. Had to open 5 or 6 boxes to find a pair of shoes that had never been "on the ground". Seems folks would wear these shoes for a time, then come back to the store and under a pretense of shopping for new shoes would manage to leave their old shoes in the box on the self. I did buy a new pair. The clerk didn't bat an eye when I asked what kind of price reduction I might get for 4 pairs of used shoes that I put up on the counter. Not all price increases we are experiencing are due to inflation. Bob . . . DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:03 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded From: "RayStL" Thanks for your help so far. Let me give more background. The aircraft has been flying for over 3 years. The MDRA inspector was fine with the battery. My aircraft has been grounded since the inspection last August. There were 2 issues they had. The battery is one. The second was because I have a variable pitch prop (Ivo) regulations say I need a manifold pressure gauge. My engine is a modern car engine that continuously measures manifold pressure, throttle position, rpm, air temperature, exhaust oxygen and uses that to control fuel and ignition. A separate manifold gauge would be a distraction at best. Yes it would have been easier to knuckle under to their inappropriate requests. (I would like to Nuckolls them. Grrr.) They finally relented on the manifold pressure issue. Only the battery issue remains. The easiest way is to find something approved that will fit in their pigeon hole. Otherwise I have been told I have go through a full technical analysis (and test?) to justify it. On a homebuilt!!!??? -------- Ray St-Laurent 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330169#330169 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded From: Bill Boyd Ridiculous-sounding stuff on their part. I'm guessing that later removal o f said battery box would not constitute a "major change." More like ongoing experimentation in your experimental aircraft. Still a hassle to build the box in the first place. When my pink Gill battery was replaced by an Odyssey, the loss of the battery box was not a reported event. So it shall remain. -Bill B On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 11:44 AM, RayStL wrote: > > Thanks for your help so far. > > Let me give more background. The aircraft has been flying for over 3 year s. > The MDRA inspector was fine with the battery. > > My aircraft has been grounded since the inspection last August. There wer e > 2 issues they had. The battery is one. The second was because I have a > variable pitch prop (Ivo) regulations say I need a manifold pressure gaug e. > My engine is a =91modern=92 car engine that continuously measures manifol d > pressure, throttle position, rpm, air temperature, exhaust oxygen and use s > that to control fuel and ignition. A separate manifold gauge would be a > distraction at best. > > Yes it would have been easier to knuckle under to their inappropriate > requests. (I would like to Nuckolls them. Grrr.) > > They finally relented on the manifold pressure issue. Only the battery > issue remains. > > The easiest way is to find something approved that will fit in their pige on > hole. Otherwise I have been told I have go through a full technical analy sis > (and test?) to justify it. > > On a homebuilt!!!??? > > -------- > Ray St-Laurent > 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330169#330169 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:31 AM PST US From: "Ralph & Maria Finch" Subject: AeroElectric-List: OT: Creative thievery Far off topic, but you guys are all talking petty thievery. The real crooks legally steal our tax money, see video clip below: http://www.youtube.com/user/fiercefreeleancer ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:34 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Battery box being demanded The section and subsection he quoted you have nothing whatsoever to do with battery location or installation. Contact the nearest chapter of the RAA ( Recreational Aircraft Association for clarification. Their mandate is not to keep you out of the air just to make you safe when you do fly. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Sent: February 8, 2011 9:56 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery box being demanded Would he be amenable to discussing this with an MDRA inspector since MDRA does most of the amateur built Canadian inspections? My MDRA inspector never batted an eyelash even with one of my AGM batteries sitting on its side on the cockpit side of the firewall. An MOT inspector may not be familiar with AGM technology as they don't usually do initial inspections. I was under the impression that a battery vent port had to be routed overboard when it was in a battery box?? Impossible to do when the battery doesn't even have a vent port. Does Concord say anything about boxes for their certified AGM batteries? When dealing with bureaucracy it might be just as well to fabricate a temporary box but then I suppose this guy might want flow through box venting if he looks at it closely. Remove the electrical system temporarily? ;( Ken On 2/7/2011 6:41 PM, RayStL wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > "RayStL" > > Help. I have a homebuilt CH701. A DOT Inspector (Canada) is trying to > force me to retrofit a battery box on my sealed Power Sonic battery > attached to the cockpit side of the firewall. I need to convince > him it complies with an applicable aviation standard. I am having a > hard time finding anything concrete out there. Any suggestions? > > Thanks. --ray > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:49 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPS Jamming They will be shut down with the first lawsuit. It is illegal for anyone with or without a license to interrupt a radio signal. I expect there is further legislation preventing the jamming of navigational radio aids. There was very strict regulations regarding the operation of radio in the 160 Meter band because of the possibility of interfering with LORAN C. Noel From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: February 8, 2011 10:46 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS Jamming Someone please tell me this is not true! Bill B FCC Approves GPS-jamming transmitters Federal Communications Commission gives the green light to 40,000 broadband transmitters that would cripple GPS navigation. 26 January 2011 =C3=A2=82=AC=9D The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) has approved a company called LightSquared Communications to install up to 40,000 high-powered, land-based broadband transmitters that broadcast in the band directly adjacent to the GPS frequencies. It has been found that these transmitters would have a disastrous effect upon aviation GPS receivers such as the popular Garmin GNS 430W. In testing, the receivers began to be jammed at 13.8 miles from each transmitter site, and navigation was effectively shut down at 5.6 miles from each site. Automotive units such as the Nuvi did a little better. The approval was moved rapidly through the approval process, and the approval was made despite industry representatives' pleas to evaluate the transmitters further. [ Read the Full Article >> ] More information, including contact numbers for the lawmakers who are involved in the approval process can be found here: GPS Community Urged to Contact Congress . The FCC's Chief of the International Bureau, Mindel De La Torre, was not swayed by the protests of the GPS manufacturers; perhaps she would be influenced by a whole bunch of respectful, concerned citizens who wrote to her at Mindel.DeLaTorre@fcc.gov, or called her office at 202-418-0437. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:52 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re:Stereo Headsets From: Franz Fux Hi , I send a note the other day but did not get any response so I try again. I have a Gentex Helmet for my RV7 that I would like to convert from mono to stereo output to suit the PM3000 intercom in my plane. I am wondering if anybody would know how to go about this, is there a kit that I could purchase or is there a company out there that could help. Thanks for any help Franz RV7 500h ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:53 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS Jamming From: Bill Boyd I think it's only illegal if the FCC says it is. They can authorize whatever they want. The restrictions in Top Band to protect Loran-A were placed by the FCC, and were always subject to their whim. If the FCC allow s 4G jammers into service, a lawsuit would have little standing that I can see. It's their sand box. We citizens play in it at their pleasure, or so they think. Which raises a question: should not 11 meters have been called "Subjects' Band?" Bill B On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > They will be shut down with the first lawsuit. It is illegal for anyone > with or without a license to interrupt a radio signal. I expect there is > further legislation preventing the jamming of navigational radio aids. > There was very strict regulations regarding the operation of radio in the > 160 Meter band because of the possibility of interfering with LORAN C. > > > Noel > > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill > Bradburry > *Sent:* February 8, 2011 10:46 AM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: GPS Jamming > > > Someone please tell me this is not true! > > > Bill B > > > *FCC Approves GPS-jamming transmitters * > *Federal Communications Commission gives the green light to 40,000 > broadband transmitters that would cripple GPS navigation.* > > *26 January 2011 =94 The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) ha s > approved a company called LightSquared Communications to install up to > 40,000 high-powered, land-based broadband transmitters that broadcast in the > band directly adjacent to the GPS frequencies. It has been found that the se > transmitters would have a disastrous effect upon aviation GPS receivers s uch > as the popular Garmin GNS 430W. In testing, the receivers began to be jam med > at 13.8 miles from each transmitter site, and navigation was effectively > shut down at 5.6 miles from each site. Automotive units such as the Nuvi did > a little better.* > > > The approval was moved rapidly through the approval process, and the > approval was made despite industry representatives' pleas to evaluate the > transmitters further. > > [ Read the Full Article >>] > > More information, including contact numbers for the lawmakers who are > involved in the approval process can be found here: GPS Community Urged t o > Contact Congress > . > > The FCC's Chief of the International Bureau, Mindel De La Torre, was not > swayed by the protests of the GPS manufacturers; perhaps she would be > influenced by a whole bunch of respectful, concerned citizens who wrote t o > her at Mindel.DeLaTorre@fcc.gov, > or called her office at 202-418-0437. > > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > * * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:04 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Heat >I'm sure a 25000+ hour pilot can fly an airplane with only a compass >and an oil pressure gauge. But as a 200 hour wimpy VFR pilot, I'll feel safer. But a 50 hour pilot can learn. When I owned 1K1 I occasionally had an opportunity to ride around the patch with a new renter. Never encountered a pilot I wouldn't be willing to rent to. But virtually all were very panel-fixated in the pattern. Our little uncontrolled airport hosted numerous no-radio airplanes and we were a popular touch-n-go stop for other no-radio airplanes. I felt a lot better about the pilot who flew the airplane confidently with his head out of the cockpit as opposed to the ones whose comfort was based on keeping all the needles pointed to some number. For several pilots, I demonstrated how we could cover up the basic six and go around the patch with great confidence that the airplane was well inside normal operating envelopes. I encouraged folks to stick the cowl right on the horizon at full throttle and note the airspeed. Shorter pilots got smaller numbers, taller pilots got higher numbers. But none discovered a number that was any cause for alarm and all were within 5 mph of each other. Then I would demonstrate that you cannot stall the airplane without bringing the nose above the horizon at any power setting. So with the gages covered up we went around the patch 4 or 5 times and concentrated on that wonderful view of the Kansas countryside and other airplanes who were sharing the view with us. You don't have to cover the gages but you CAN spend some time in the airplanes you fly most to explore exactly what significance all those pointers have with respect to comfortable and confident operation of the airplane. Every pilot has to do the biennial check ride in accordance with the predictable and repeatable demonstration of those skills we were taught by our instructors. But the really competent pilot has (for lack of a better term) a certain amount of "oneness" with the machine. He/she is confident and competent in the operation of the airplane well inside the borders of limits envelopes without reference to the instruments. There's been some sentiments about the value in KNOWING the indicated airspeed while doing what ever it is that good pilots do to deal with a recently discovered icing condition. Okay, you're in some stable flight configuration of climb, cruise or descent and you discover an icing condition. What kinds of maneuvers would the good pilot conduct to make the situation better? Steep turns to do the fast 180? Reduce power? Increase power? Large changes in pitch? What ever the decision might be, which of those actions re-configure the airplane to the edge of the performance envelope with attendant increase in risk? The greatest risks for accumulation of ice come from a combination of increased weight, increased drag and altered airfoil performance. As I related in my previous story, ice collecting on the leading edge had the effect of a marked increase in stall speed. Okay, once you've got ice on the airplane, what does the properly functioning IAS indicator KNOW about departures in 'normal' numbers. Does the white arc change endpoints in concert with ice accretion to give the pilot a heads-up on those departures? We've read a lot of dark-n-stormy night stories about pilots who wiggled this, switched that, explored the other thing in some attempt to add to their knowledge of what's going wrong with an electrical system. Virtually all the stories only served to highlight the pilot's lack of understanding about how the system worked. In some cases, fiddling and twiddling made things worse. At the same time, while the pilot was playing the role of systems analyst, he was not being a competent pilot. The same hard, cold truths of life apply to an airplane that is found to be collecting ice. This is a SYSTEM FAILURE that may degrade to a un-recoverable departure if not addressed with a well considered plan-B. The idea that your otherwise friendly IAS indicator is a dependable tool in carrying out plan-B is problematic. You already KNOW that the airplane is going to slow down due to drag. You already KNOW that maintaining altitude will eventually become problematic due to weight and drag. You already KNOW that the numbers represented by the values at the bottom of the white arc cannot be trusted for the purposes of maneuvering close to while still avoiding a stall. You're well advised not to make changes in power settings or to conduct maneuvers that squander your performance envelope edge-margins especially when those edges are no longer predicable. Like flying in thunderstorms, flying in icing conditions is an environment where airspeed indications are unreliable and not terribly significant for avoiding the unforgiving and possibly terminal stall. Attitude and power changes that take you to the performance edges are demonstrably risky. I suggest that the prudent plan-B for icing does not depend on IAS indications. Even if the IAS system is working, the data displayed is purely informational . . . as is your GPS ground speed. It's no longer a finely calibrated tool for helping you put some tire-streaks on the numbers. IAS can only display trends. If the trend is in the wrong direction, then plan-B has failed you . . . and there's probably not much else to be done. You might also be surprised when the airplane falls out of the sky at 20 kts above the bottom of the white arc. The point to be considered exactly what value the displayed IAS data brings to the plan-B party. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:13 AM PST US From: TERRY MORTIMORE Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded Hi Ray=2C I=27m curious as to how you got to be dealing with the DOT ins pector=3F If the MDRA inspector did the final inspection and the airplane was flyi ng=2C how did the DOT get involved=3F Any way of getting the DOT inspector out of the loop by going back to MD RA=3F ------------------------ ------------------------ --------------- Terry=2E ----- Original Message ----- From=3A Bill Boyd =3Csportav8r=40gmail=2Ecom=3E Date=3A Tuesday=2C February 8=2C 2011 1=3A04 pm Subject=3A Re=3A AeroElectric-List=3A Re=3A Battery box being demanded To=3A aeroelectric-list=40matronics=2Ecom =3E Ridiculous-sounding stuff on their part=2E- I=27m guessing that =3E later removal of =3E said battery box would not constitute a =22major change=2E=22- =3E More like ongoing =3E experimentation in your experimental aircraft=2E- Still a =3E hassle to build the =3E box in the first place=2E- When my pink Gill battery was =3E replaced by an =3E Odyssey=2C the loss of the battery box was not a reported =3E event=2E- So it shall =3E remain=2E =3E =3E -Bill B =3E =3E On Tue=2C Feb 8=2C 2011 at 11=3A44 AM=2C RayStL =3Craystl=40nbnet=2E nb=2Eca=3E wrote=3A =3E =3E =3E --=3E AeroElectric-List message posted by=3A =22RayStL=22 =3E =3Craystl=40nbnet=2Enb=2Eca=3E=3E =3E =3E Thanks for your help so far=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E Let me give more background=2E The aircraft has been flying for =3E over 3 years=2E =3E =3E The MDRA inspector was fine with the battery=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E My aircraft has been grounded since the inspection last =3E August=2E There were =3E =3E 2 issues they had=2E The battery is one=2E The second was becaus e =3E I have a =3E =3E variable pitch prop (Ivo) regulations say I need a manifold =3E pressure gauge=2E =3E =3E My engine is a =91modern=92 car engine that continuously measure s =3E manifold=3E pressure=2C throttle position=2C rpm=2C air temperature=2C =3E exhaust oxygen and uses =3E =3E that to control fuel and ignition=2E A separate manifold gauge =3E would be a =3E =3E distraction at best=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E Yes it would have been easier to knuckle under to their =3E inappropriate=3E requests=2E (I would like to Nuckolls them=2E Grrr=2E ) =3E =3E =3E =3E They finally relented on the manifold pressure issue=2E Only the =3E battery=3E issue remains=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E The easiest way is to find something approved that will fit in =3E their pigeon =3E =3E hole=2E Otherwise I have been told I have go through a full =3E technical analysis =3E =3E (and- test=3F) to justify it=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E On a homebuilt!!!=3F=3F=3F =3E =3E =3E =3E -------- =3E =3E Ray St-Laurent =3E =3E 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E Read this topic online here=3A =3E =3E =3E =3E http=3A//forums=2Ematronics=2Ecom/viewtopic=2Ephp=3Fp=330169=23 330169 =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =========== =3E =========== =3E =========== =3E =========== =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:19 AM PST US From: Henador Titzoff Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OT: Creative thievery Bob's experience is not petty thievery. Wal-Mart back in 2007 had a theft problem approaching $3B: http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/224996 One of the reasons that employee may not have batted at eye is because employee theft and other theft is on the rise at Wal-Mart. My wife refuses to shop there, because there have been reported incidents at our local Wal-Marts, where employees have stolen credit card and WIC card info. I do like your link, though. We need to sheet can all of our politicians and start over. Henador Titzoff --- On Tue, 2/8/11, Ralph & Maria Finch wrote: > From: Ralph & Maria Finch > Subject: AeroElectric-List: OT: Creative thievery > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Date: Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 9:46 AM > --> AeroElectric-List message > posted by: "Ralph & Maria Finch" > > Far off topic, but you guys are all talking petty thievery. > The real crooks > legally steal our tax money, see video clip below: > > http://www.youtube.com/user/fiercefreeleancer > > > > AeroElectric-List Email Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:27 AM PST US From: Jae Chang Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OT: Creative thievery Crime is on the rise here on the left coast, at least from my own personal experience. My beater car has been tinkered/broken into/messed with more frequency lately. Sigh. I would not be surprised if this crime wave is just another part of our Economic Stimulus Recovery Act! 1. A few months ago, someone cut the catalytic converter from underneath the truck => $600 2. A couple weeks ago, someone put a screwdriver into the lock keyhole => $100 or so stolen and who knows how much more to fix the lock 3. Finishing the airplane project so I can park in the garage => priceless! Jae ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:15 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: In defence of the eBay community At 09:26 AM 2/8/2011, you wrote: >James, > > Rick Gerard is correct about eBay. I bought my King KT76 off > eBay, and it was >supposedly recently certified and came with a yellow tag. All this >was a lie!!! Gentlemen, let's not paint eBay with the brush of dishonorable behaviors. There are and will always be individuals of low character lurking in every community including eBay. I buy a LOT of stuff off eBay, I sell SOME stuff too. I jealously guard my 100% rating. Every honorable participant on eBay has a similar attitude toward keeping their "eBay Face" clean. I have never lost a dime on an eBay purchase that was not as advertised. In most cases, the seller refunded my money, in one case eBay refunded my money. eBay has a buyer protection program that goes beyond seller duties to make sure your eBay experience is not a bad one. You're not going to get useful data on relative robustness of any particular brand/model of radio here on the List or any other forum. There are just too many variables of environment, service stresses and user perception to expect well qualified advice. Talk to grey-beard service techs at your local avionics shop about models to avoid. They'll all know which products visit the shop too often or are difficult to repair. Check the sellers ratings. If there are negatives, go check out the wording of the complaint. Talk to the seller about it. Ask if there's a guarantee against dead on arrival. Forget the yellow tag thing. As soon as your purchase arrives, have it bench checked. Your eBay experience probably offers LESS risk than buying a similar product from the guy in the hangar next to yours. Agree up front about money back if the device proves un-serviceable to your needs. Your only risk is the bench time for a test which you'll have to spend whether or not the critter is A-OK. The reliable, credible eBay seller will work with you. He/she's not out to screw customers, else they would not achieve a high rating. Just agree on some ground rules before you bid. Living out in the boonies, I use eBay heavily to supply needs that go beyond the local Alco and Dollar General stores. It's not quite as convenient, but the products are delivered right to my door. Worries about getting cheated are non-existent. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re:Stereo Headsets From: Kenneth Melvin Tiger Performance Products did a great job on my helmet. Offer a wide range of helmet communications options. Kenneth Melvin, P51-D On Feb 8, 2011, at 10:09 AM, Franz Fux wrote: > > Hi , > I send a note the other day but did not get any response so I try again. > I have a Gentex Helmet for my RV7 that I would like to convert from mono to > stereo output to suit the PM3000 intercom in my plane. I am wondering if > anybody would know how to go about this, is there a kit that I could > purchase or is there a company out there that could help. > Thanks for any help > Franz > RV7 500h > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:24 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded From: "RayStL" MDRA is only involved in the building process. I had an engine failure at a controlled airport. That got DOTs attention (thats fair). The cause was from radiant heat cooking my fuel pumps (They have heat shields on them now). They did not snag the revised fuel pump setup but... The DOT inspector was somewhat annoyed that the MDRA inspector had not flagged the battery. It was clear the DOT inspector had never heard of a sealed lead acid battery, AGM, recombinant gas or any the synonym I could think of. --ray -------- Ray St-Laurent 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330196#330196 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 12:46:19 PM PST US From: MLWynn@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OT: Creative thievery Anyone who complains about the governments of Pakistan or Afghanistan or Venezuela being corrupt needs to take a good look at what's going on here in the good ole US of A. Thanks for the video Michael Wynn Do Not Archive In a message dated 2/8/2011 9:51:19 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ralphmariafinch@gmail.com writes: Far off topic, but you guys are all talking petty thievery. The real crooks legally steal our tax money, see video clip below: http://www.youtube.com/user/fiercefreeleancer ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:17 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: In defence of the eBay community > Gentlemen=2C let's not paint eBay with the brush of > dishonorable behaviors. There are and will always be > individuals of low character lurking in every community > including eBay. > Bob . . . Hi Bob=2C I hope no one took what I said about that lying SOB=2C who sold me a defective transponder as a reflection on eBay. It was just he that was a lowlife!!! This happened 10 years ago=2C too. I also mentioned I bought a Narco AT150 from a reputable dealer on eBay. I have well over 300+ positive transactions=2C and use eBay's services very frequently ( My wife says..."your daily package has arrived!!!") I have only had a couple of deliberately onerous transactions=2C and these were several years ago. Now=2C I adhere to the seller's feedback profile more=2C and I can honestly say I experience very few grievances=2C and even at that=2C they are fairly easy to resolve. (things like slow shipping=2C etc) The best feature I like about eBay is it's ability to expose you to thousands of examples of excellent buys=2C most of which you'd never have access to if eBay didn't exist. A recnet example was my find of heatshrink. I got a shopping bag full of the most popular sizes=2C all for $27. BTW=2C has any received an order of the heatshrink I recommended? Mike Welch ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:54 PM PST US From: James Robinson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: In defence of the eBay community I completely agree with Bob on this one. I love the fact that I can get a rating of the seller before I deal with them. I have had better service than some local stores. If you have a bad experience let it be known. Jim James Robinson Glasairlll N79R Spanish Fork UT U77 ________________________________ From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 9:48:15 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: In defence of the eBay community At 09:26 AM 2/8/2011, you wrote: > James, > > Rick Gerard is correct about eBay. I bought my King KT76 off eBay, and it >was > supposedly recently certified and came with a yellow tag. All this was a >lie!!! Gentlemen, let's not paint eBay with the brush of dishonorable behaviors. There are and will always be individuals of low character lurking in every community including eBay. I buy a LOT of stuff off eBay, I sell SOME stuff too. I jealously guard my 100% rating. Every honorable participant on eBay has a similar attitude toward keeping their "eBay Face" clean. I have never lost a dime on an eBay purchase that was not as advertised. In most cases, the seller refunded my money, in one case eBay refunded my money. eBay has a buyer protection program that goes beyond seller duties to make sure your eBay experience is not a bad one. You're not going to get useful data on relative robustness of any particular brand/model of radio here on the List or any other forum. There are just too many variables of environment, service stresses and user perception to expect well qualified advice. Talk to grey-beard service techs at your local avionics shop about models to avoid. They'll all know which products visit the shop too often or are difficult to repair. Check the sellers ratings. If there are negatives, go check out the wording of the complaint. Talk to the seller about it. Ask if there's a guarantee against dead on arrival. Forget the yellow tag thing. As soon as your purchase arrives, have it bench checked. Your eBay experience probably offers LESS risk than buying a similar product from the guy in the hangar next to yours. Agree up front about money back if the device proves un-serviceable to your needs. Your only risk is the bench time for a test which you'll have to spend whether or not the critter is A-OK. The reliable, credible eBay seller will work with you. He/she's not out to screw customers, else they would not achieve a high rating. Just agree on some ground rules before you bid. Living out in the boonies, I use eBay heavily to supply needs that go beyond the local Alco and Dollar General stores. It's not quite as convenient, but the products are delivered right to my door. Worries about getting cheated are non-existent. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:28 PM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Heat Good Afternoon Bob, For once I totally disagree with your premise. The heated pitot tube and a reliable airspeed indicator is a handy tool to have. If we subscribe to your thought, why bother having an airspeed indicator at all? When I soloed in the spring of 1946, I was flying a J-3 cub and I never saw the airspeed indicator until the instructor got out of the airplane and told me to take it around the patch three times then bring it over to the gas pit. When I fly my Stearman today, I rarely look at the airspeed. However, when I charge out for the West Coast in my Bonanza, I really like having an instrument that will tell me if I am not getting the airspeed indication I expect when flying at certain attitudes and power settings. It is not a "tell all" instrument, but it IS a handy thing to have and a heated pitot tube allows it to be reliable if I pick up a trace of ice while climbing or descending through a thin cloud layer. Ice is to be respected, but need not be feared if one understands the principle. Carburetor heat is handy to have, but the engine runs better if you can fly where it is not needed. The propellor will work better if you think to coat it with a good ice repellent than it will if you get a little more ice than planned while climbing or descending through that thin layer. The FAA tells us that we are expected to ask for a clearance out of the icing conditions if they are unexpectedly encountered. As long as we have planned a suitable exit strategy, no foul and no careless or reckless citation. I figure that if something as light weight and simple as a heated pitot tube or ice repellent on the prop gives me a small edge when unexpected icing conditions are encountered, it is a good thing. Avoiding that little piece of ice that may cause my airspeed indicator to become less reliable is well worth the trouble of installing a heated pitot tube and rubbing a bit of ice repellent on the propellor. I don't have a heated pitot tube on our Piper Pacer and it is flown IFR any time it is practical to do so. The airspeed is lost a lot and one of the things I will do if I ever find time to do it is add a heated pitot tube. I think my skill set will allow me to fly as well as any other pilot without an airspeed indicator, but why do so when it is so easy to have it working? Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 2/8/2011 12:16:55 P.M. Central Standard Time, nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >I'm sure a 25000+ hour pilot can fly an airplane with only a compass >and an oil pressure gauge. But as a 200 hour wimpy VFR pilot, I'll feel safer. But a 50 hour pilot can learn. When I owned 1K1 I occasionally had an opportunity to ride around the patch with a new renter. Never encountered a pilot I wouldn't be willing to rent to. But virtually all were very panel-fixated in the pattern. Our little uncontrolled airport hosted numerous no-radio airplanes and we were a popular touch-n-go stop for other no-radio airplanes. I felt a lot better about the pilot who flew the airplane confidently with his head out of the cockpit as opposed to the ones whose comfort was based on keeping all the needles pointed to some number. For several pilots, I demonstrated how we could cover up the basic six and go around the patch with great confidence that the airplane was well inside normal operating envelopes. I encouraged folks to stick the cowl right on the horizon at full throttle and note the airspeed. Shorter pilots got smaller numbers, taller pilots got higher numbers. But none discovered a number that was any cause for alarm and all were within 5 mph of each other. Then I would demonstrate that you cannot stall the airplane without bringing the nose above the horizon at any power setting. So with the gages covered up we went around the patch 4 or 5 times and concentrated on that wonderful view of the Kansas countryside and other airplanes who were sharing the view with us. You don't have to cover the gages but you CAN spend some time in the airplanes you fly most to explore exactly what significance all those pointers have with respect to comfortable and confident operation of the airplane. Every pilot has to do the biennial check ride in accordance with the predictable and repeatable demonstration of those skills we were taught by our instructors. But the really competent pilot has (for lack of a better term) a certain amount of "oneness" with the machine. He/she is confident and competent in the operation of the airplane well inside the borders of limits envelopes without reference to the instruments. There's been some sentiments about the value in KNOWING the indicated airspeed while doing what ever it is that good pilots do to deal with a recently discovered icing condition. Okay, you're in some stable flight configuration of climb, cruise or descent and you discover an icing condition. What kinds of maneuvers would the good pilot conduct to make the situation better? Steep turns to do the fast 180? Reduce power? Increase power? Large changes in pitch? What ever the decision might be, which of those actions re-configure the airplane to the edge of the performance envelope with attendant increase in risk? The greatest risks for accumulation of ice come from a combination of increased weight, increased drag and altered airfoil performance. As I related in my previous story, ice collecting on the leading edge had the effect of a marked increase in stall speed. Okay, once you've got ice on the airplane, what does the properly functioning IAS indicator KNOW about departures in 'normal' numbers. Does the white arc change endpoints in concert with ice accretion to give the pilot a heads-up on those departures? We've read a lot of dark-n-stormy night stories about pilots who wiggled this, switched that, explored the other thing in some attempt to add to their knowledge of what's going wrong with an electrical system. Virtually all the stories only served to highlight the pilot's lack of understanding about how the system worked. In some cases, fiddling and twiddling made things worse. At the same time, while the pilot was playing the role of systems analyst, he was not being a competent pilot. The same hard, cold truths of life apply to an airplane that is found to be collecting ice. This is a SYSTEM FAILURE that may degrade to a un-recoverable departure if not addressed with a well considered plan-B. The idea that your otherwise friendly IAS indicator is a dependable tool in carrying out plan-B is problematic. You already KNOW that the airplane is going to slow down due to drag. You already KNOW that maintaining altitude will eventually become problematic due to weight and drag. You already KNOW that the numbers represented by the values at the bottom of the white arc cannot be trusted for the purposes of maneuvering close to while still avoiding a stall. You're well advised not to make changes in power settings or to conduct maneuvers that squander your performance envelope edge-margins especially when those edges are no longer predicable. Like flying in thunderstorms, flying in icing conditions is an environment where airspeed indications are unreliable and not terribly significant for avoiding the unforgiving and possibly terminal stall. Attitude and power changes that take you to the performance edges are demonstrably risky. I suggest that the prudent plan-B for icing does not depend on IAS indications. Even if the IAS system is working, the data displayed is purely informational . . . as is your GPS ground speed. It's no longer a finely calibrated tool for helping you put some tire-streaks on the numbers. IAS can only display trends. If the trend is in the wrong direction, then plan-B has failed you . . . and there's probably not much else to be done. You might also be surprised when the airplane falls out of the sky at 20 kts above the bottom of the white arc. The point to be considered exactly what value the displayed IAS data brings to the plan-B party. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:14 PM PST US From: "earl_schroeder@juno.com" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: In defence of the eBay community Hi Mike, Yes, I have received the heat heatshrink about a week ago. My bill was ~$33 which was set before ordering with Lisa. They substituted a piece of green in the small size for one color but that's not a deal breaker.. . It all came in a box about 14x14x10 so it was 'wadded' up and some was flat instead of round but that's OK too.Earl ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Mike Welch BTW, has any received an order of the heatshrink I recommended? Mike Welch ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:43 PM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: {Spam?} Re: AeroElectric-List: Shorai LiFePO4 Actually, the battery being held at 14.5V is supposed to be the way the cells get balanced. The fully charged cells pass enough current to allow the laggards to become fully charged as well. While this is happening the fully charged cells have a somewhat elevated voltage across them. In the end all cells are fully charged and at 1/4 of the 14.5V applied and so they remain. A battery gets unbalanced cells when it is never allowed to sit at 14.5V long enough (so 8-hour trips should be perfect....). We keep our lead-acid batteries balanced the same way. But lead-acid cells conduct charging current much better when fully charged than LFP cells and balancing is much quicker. Some pictures of LFP cell characteristics: http://mvp090-1.104web.com.tw/cetacean/front/bin/ptdetail.phtml?Part=e40138f1 At 90% charge (60% of charging time) the constant volts charging current drops from 1C and is down to 0.02C when 100% of charge and time is reached. In the following report, among other tests, a cell is overcharged to destruction (page 28): http://www.lifebatt.com/sandiareport.pdf They force a 1C charging current into the fully charged cell. After 34 minutes it reaches 11V, loses continuity and vents at 110 'C. Maximum temperature at 160 'C is reached 20 minutes later. For this to happen in a real life battery charging situation the imbalance would have to be very extreme indeed. Still, I might want an alarm if any cell moved beyond 4 volts while the battery was kept at 14.5V. And maybe a location good for 200 'C with venting to the outside. In the meantime we can wait for the motorcyclists. Jan de Jong ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:00 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: AeroElectric-List: heatshrink >It all came in a box about 14x14x10 so it was 'wadded' up and some was fla t instead of round but that's OK too. >Earl Hi Earl=2C Quite a pile of heatshrink for $33=2C huh? I have used quite a bit of mi ne (3 feet out of 1800)=2C and I have found it works very well. I got the same flat stuff in the larger sizes=2C too. Several of the 7mm sizes came as flat heatshrink. I think this is because some electronic devices c an print on it what the wire is for. Rolling the 10 meter long pieces into a bundle and securing them with a rubber band won't hurt a thing when it comes to shrink 'em!!! : ) Best to ya=2C Mike Hi Mike=2C ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:36 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Heat At 04:33 PM 2/8/2011, you wrote: >Good Afternoon Bob, > >For once I totally disagree with your premise. > >The heated pitot tube and a reliable airspeed indicator is a handy >tool to have. "Handy" is not quantified or qualified. My premise is that there are times when accurate IAS improves on the pilot's ability to perform and reduces risks > >If we subscribe to your thought, why bother having an airspeed >indicator at all? I don't think you understood the thought . . . > >When I soloed in the spring of 1946, I was flying a J-3 cub and I >never saw the airspeed indicator until the instructor got out of the >airplane and told me to take it around the patch three times then >bring it over to the gas pit. > >When I fly my Stearman today, I rarely look at the airspeed. > >However, when I charge out for the West Coast in my Bonanza, I >really like having an instrument that will tell me if I am not >getting the airspeed indication I expect when flying at certain >attitudes and power settings. It is not a "tell all" instrument, but >it IS a handy thing to have and a heated pitot tube allows it to be >reliable if I pick up a trace of ice while climbing or descending >through a thin cloud layer. Okay, let's assume "handy" means "information useful for monitoring/trimming performance" > Ice is to be respected, but need not be feared if one understands > the principle. agreed > >Carburetor heat is handy to have, but the engine runs better if you >can fly where it is not needed. not relevant to my premise > >The propellor will work better if you think to coat it with a good >ice repellent than it will if you get a little more ice than planned >while climbing or descending through that thin layer. also not relevant to the premise If I perceive the concerns of our readers correctly, there are embedded notions that a heated pitot tube offers increased comfort for the reduction of risk (often called "safety"). The scenarios you've just described speak to matters of non-critical information that assist the pilot in fine-tuning or monitoring navigation or performance of the airplane. Same ideas apply to moving map displays, autopilots with every feature including the kitchen sink, etc. etc. But as pilots, we should be quite capable of getting from point A to point B with none of those accessories. Help me illustrate premise: Suppose you're cruising along in your C-172 with a heated pitot tube and you become aware of accumulating ice. Paint a scenario for the next few minutes of flight were the IAS display would (a) figure into your action plan or (b) cause you to change flight configuration with respect to attitude, altitude or power? Flip side of the same coin is to consider how your behaviors would be modified if the pitot tube were not heated and you found the needle stuck at the last good reading? How would you become aware that the IAS was stuck due to freezing? Once you confirm that particular failure, how would that information figure into subsequent actions. This is an exercise in failure mode effects analysis for the purpose of crafting a minimum risk plan-B. As you've pointed out, there are displays on the panel that provide data that beg timely response; other displays that are nice to know. Sometimes, both kinds of information comes from the same instrument. The information we seek now are when and how would IAS readings drive decisions that would reduce risk for extracting one's rear end from an icing situation? Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.