---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/09/11: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:36 AM - Unvented AGM? () 2. 05:44 AM - Re: Re: Battery box being demanded (Noel Loveys) 3. 06:47 AM - Re: Creative thievery (checkn6) 4. 07:08 AM - Re: Unvented AGM? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: Battery box being demanded (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 07:47 AM - Re: Re: Battery box being demanded (n801bh@netzero.com) 7. 07:59 AM - Re: Transponder durability? (Radioflyer) 8. 08:40 AM - Re:Stereo Headsets (glen matejcek) 9. 09:19 AM - Re: Battery box being demanded (RayStL) 10. 09:49 AM - Re: Re: Battery box being demanded (rayj) 11. 09:54 AM - Re: Re: Battery box being demanded (Don Hudgeon) 12. 10:02 AM - Re: Unvented AGM? (RayStL) 13. 10:52 AM - Re: Re: Battery box being demanded (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 10:52 AM - Re: Re: Unvented AGM? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 10:54 AM - How the "other side" lives. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 11:13 AM - Re: How the "other side" lives (OOPS) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 17. 11:15 AM - Re: Battery box being demanded (RayStL) 18. 11:48 AM - Re: Unvented AGM? (RayStL) 19. 11:49 AM - Re: How the "other side" lives (OOPS) (Carlos Trigo) 20. 12:21 PM - Re: Re: Battery box being demanded (rayj) 21. 12:28 PM - D-sub screws (Fergus Kyle) 22. 12:31 PM - Re: Re: Battery box being demanded (Ron Raby) 23. 12:54 PM - Re: How the "other side" lives (OOPS) (Steve Ruse) 24. 01:08 PM - Copper Buss bar (Barry Davis) 25. 01:45 PM - Re: Copper Buss bar (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 26. 02:06 PM - Re: How the "other side" lives (OOPS) (Robert Borger) 27. 02:23 PM - Re: Copper Buss bar (simon@synchdes.com) 28. 03:08 PM - Re: Copper Buss bar (Barry Davis) 29. 03:56 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: Pitot heat- 02/08/11 (EMAproducts@aol.com) 30. 05:17 PM - Re: Re:Stereo Headsets (Franz Fux) 31. 06:16 PM - Re: Pitot heat (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:34 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Unvented AGM? 2/9/2011 Hello Fellow Builders, Ray St-Laurent wrote: "......an unvented AGM ......" One could debate the difference between a valve and a vent, but it might be a bit misleading to describe the valve equipped AGM batteries as being unvented. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA_battery 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." ========================================================== Time: 05:10:25 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded From: "RayStL" An STC of an equivalent installation might be the easiest way to convince. I think that would be an unvented AGM inside the cabin. I see there are some under seat Cub STC's that might do. Does anyone have details. If so then I just need to convince him that my battery is equivalent to that specified. --ray -------- Ray St-Laurent 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:48 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded I wonder why he stated to you the Section V standard... It doesn't jibe. I would ask him again to give the exact standard he wants followed. With that you can google Canadian Aviation Regulations and download the whole mess in PDF. The first number in the part he wants you to follow is usually written as a capitol roman numeral. The second number is either a 0 or a 2. If it is a 0 then it is a regulation. If it is a 2 it is a standard or method to fulfil the regulation. The third number is the subsection and then the decimal point. After the decimal point is the specific rules in the subsection. You can also read the cars in more of an organised mode at: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/regserv/cars/menu.htm I agree with your assessment of the manifold pressure gauge but if they were really sticky on it you could have one installed easily. It the most it would have meant is drilling and welding a boss onto the intake manifold close to the throttle body... there is probably one there already. I think what he wants to see is a box capable of withstanding a +3G forward impact with the weight of the battery in it and also be able to contain the contents of the battery in the case of an accident. A normal covered plastic battery box... to fit and be properly secured should satisfy him. Crappy tire (a Canadian thing)could probably help. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RayStL Sent: February 8, 2011 1:14 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded Thanks for your help so far. Let me give more background. The aircraft has been flying for over 3 years. The MDRA inspector was fine with the battery. My aircraft has been grounded since the inspection last August. There were 2 issues they had. The battery is one. The second was because I have a variable pitch prop (Ivo) regulations say I need a manifold pressure gauge. My engine is a modern car engine that continuously measures manifold pressure, throttle position, rpm, air temperature, exhaust oxygen and uses that to control fuel and ignition. A separate manifold gauge would be a distraction at best. Yes it would have been easier to knuckle under to their inappropriate requests. (I would like to Nuckolls them. Grrr.) They finally relented on the manifold pressure issue. Only the battery issue remains. The easiest way is to find something approved that will fit in their pigeon hole. Otherwise I have been told I have go through a full technical analysis (and test?) to justify it. On a homebuilt!!!??? -------- Ray St-Laurent 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330169#330169 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:45 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Creative thievery From: "checkn6" You want to hear another good one. Let's try Sporty's Pilot Shop. While placing an online order, you put your items into your cart, go through the checkout procedure and if you aren't watching the "system" automatically places a $10 chart into your order at the last moment in the hopes that you won't catch it. It is after all a useful item who doesn't want a current chart for their zip code? Sporty's makes a few extra bucks and deals with the upset people that catch them. I won't be back as there are too many other respectable pilot shops out there. I write this with personal knowledge as it just happened to me last week. I caught them after I paid with my card and then to "correct the mistake" they charged my card twice. Once with and once without the chart, of course they will refund the money but it gets held a while. Deceit is a terrible thing. Reminds me of an old proverb I once heard. "Greed for wealth and power, which no amount of wealth and power could ever satisfy, is a defect buried deep in human nature." Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330265#330265 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:30 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Unvented AGM? At 08:30 AM 2/9/2011, you wrote: > >2/9/2011 > >Hello Fellow Builders, Ray St-Laurent wrote: "......an unvented AGM ......" > >One could debate the difference between a valve and a vent, but it >might be a bit misleading to describe the valve equipped AGM >batteries as being unvented. See here: > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA_battery EXCELLENT point. It might also be useful to note that VLRA batteries (unlike VENTED wet batteries) are approved for shipment in the mails and by ordinary commercial air freight without benefit of extra-ordinary packaging. I quote here 49 CFR 173.159(d): (d) A nonspillable wet electric storage battery is excepted from all other requirements of this subchapter under the following conditions: (1) The battery must be protected against short circuits and securely packaged; (2) For batteries manufactured after September 30, 1995, the battery and the outer packaging must be plainly and durably marked NONSPILLABLE or NONSPILLABLE BATTERY; and (3) The battery must be capable of withstanding the following two tests, without leakage of battery fluid from the battery: (i) Vibration test. The battery must be rigidly clamped to the platform of a vibration machine, and a simple harmonic motion having an amplitude of 0.8 mm (0.03 inches), with a 1.6 mm (0.063 inches) maximum total excursion must be applied. The frequency must be varied at the rate of 1 Hz/min between the limits of 10 Hz to 55 Hz. The entire range of frequencies and return must be traversed in 955 minutes for each mounting position (direction of vibrator) of the battery. The battery must be tested in three mutually perpendicular positions (to include testing with fill openings and vents, if any, in an inverted position) for equal time periods. That's a rather lengthy list of requirements that the OBAM aircraft builder shouldn't have to "prove" . . . but it illustrates the point that cells with no loose liquid that are not open to atmosphere have been demonstrated benign for all hazards short of gross damage. In normal or even abusive service, they cannot produce the hazards we used to associate with their liquid electrolyte ancestors. All of the legacy hazards calling for extra containment of gasses/liquids simply went away. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:24 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded >I think what he wants to see is a box capable of withstanding a +3G >forward impact with the weight of the battery in it and also be able >to contain the contents of the battery in the case of an >accident. A normal covered plastic battery box... to fit and be >properly secured should satisfy him. The crash safety hold-down rules here call for 10G of tear-away resistance for rearward acceleration. For a 25# SVLA this translates to 250 pounds of tensile strength for retainers. We did some studies on 6" strips of Velcro on 1" wide straps at HBC and measured tensile strengths in the many hundreds of pounds depending on how well the installer 'mashed' the fasteners together. On that basis, I've recommended several times in the past that SVLA batteries might be strapped down in shallow trays having lips on the order of 1/2" with two Velcro closed web-straps. This kind of attention would indicated if the battery were aft of crew space. If the battery is on the forward side of the firewall, it's not going to be a missile-hazard. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:23 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded In my experimental I used the group 24 box shown here. http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?produ ctId=102091&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=1 0109&subdeptNum=10548&classNum=10551 I run a Optima 1000CCA battery to light off my V-8. I needed extra balla st in the rear of the fuselage to offset the slightly heavier engine any way and the massive amount of electrical storage this battery provides g ives me about 11 hours of enough voltage to fire the ignition. That is a ssuming I am dumb enough to land and refuel 3 times after an alternator failure. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded olls.bob@aeroelectric.com> >I think what he wants to see is a box capable of withstanding a +3G >forward impact with the weight of the battery in it and also be able >to contain the contents of the battery in the case of an >accident. A normal covered plastic battery box... to fit and be >properly secured should satisfy him. The crash safety hold-down rules here call for 10G of tear-away resistance for rearward acceleration. For a 25# SVLA this translates to 250 pounds of tensile strength for retainers. We did some studies on 6" strips of Velcro on 1" wide straps at HBC and measured tensile strengths in the many hundreds of pounds depending on how well the installer 'mashed' the fasteners together. On that basis, I've recommended several times in the past that SVLA batteries might be strapped down in shallow trays having lips on the order of 1/2" with two Velcro closed web-straps. This kind of attention would indicated if the battery were aft of crew space. If the battery is on the forward side of the firewall, it's not going to be a missile-hazard. Bob . . . ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ____________________________________________________________ Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d52b60ae84681ae659st04vuc ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:59:21 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transponder durability? From: "Radioflyer" As for durability, I don't know much, but one thing I would suggest you consider is whether the transponder is completely solidstate or whether it uses a cavitron tube. The glass cavitron tubes are supposed to be very expensive to replace when they fail. I've always thought the solidstate units startup faster and are more rugged or reliable. Maybe someone here can comment further one way or the other. As for ebay, maybe I've just been lucky or maybe I've practiced good common sense in my bids, but I've had good luck with aircraft stuff. I will say that I always carefully research the part I'm looking for and if the bidder's description, feedback or responses seem inconsistent, then no bid. And here is an offer...I have a Terra TRT250 transponder with tray and antenna connector. It has a "Return to Service" label from Terra dated 1995. More importantly, it has the mods 2 and 5 done to it, to comply with the latest AD on the unit. I bought the unit used several years ago for an Experimental because it is solidstate, and is still among the smallest, lightest transponders available. Unfortunately, the experimental never became mine, so I've never used it. It has a small rectangular face , but can be made to fit in a 3-1/8" instrument hole. I paid $650 for the unit and it is available for sale. --Jose Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330278#330278 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:50 AM PST US From: "glen matejcek" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re:Stereo Headsets I'll ask a friend at Gentex if he knows anything ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:50 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded From: "RayStL" Thanks to all have responded. From communications with the DOT inspector, it is clear that the quickest solution will be to reference a STC for a cub or similar that uses an underseat strap down of an AGM battery. I know Concorde has STCs but I have not tracked down yet if that includes elimination of the battery box. There is a broader, much more disturbing side to this issue. A DOT inspector wants to revoke approval for something that has already passed inspection. The installation has not changed. That means any (Canadian) homebuilt could theoretically revoke approval for any previously approved installation. It also unjustly (I believe) questions the validity of any previous inspection through MDRA. I know of other Canadian homebuilts using AGMs without battery boxes but I am not about to cite those as examples. --ray -------- Ray St-Laurent 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330294#330294 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:20 AM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded I am not familiar with how the Canadian system works, but I assume a bureaucrat is a bureaucrat. Perhaps the MDRA inspector that approved the initial inspection would be offended by the DOT inspectors implication that his work was in someway lacking. Perhaps he might be motivated to go to bat for you and for HIS reputation. The most likely way this will be resolved in your favor is if you can get someone else in the government to bring pressure on the DOT guy to change his opinion. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN On 02/09/2011 11:15 AM, RayStL wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RayStL" > > Thanks to all have responded. From communications with the DOT inspector, it is clear that the quickest solution will be to reference a STC for a cub or similar that uses an underseat strap down of an AGM battery. I know Concorde has STCs but I have not tracked down yet if that includes elimination of the battery box. > > There is a broader, much more disturbing side to this issue. A DOT inspector wants to revoke approval for something that has already passed inspection. The installation has not changed. That means any (Canadian) homebuilt could theoretically revoke approval for any previously approved installation. It also unjustly (I believe) questions the validity of any previous inspection through MDRA. > > I know of other Canadian homebuilts using AGMs without battery boxes but I am not about to cite those as examples. > > --ray > > -------- > Ray St-Laurent > 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330294#330294 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:51 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded From: Don Hudgeon Hi Ray I also have a "imported" homebuilt here in Canada and I hear what you are saying about the broader picture. Mine was inspected and signed off by the FAA a few years ago and again last year by MDRA inspector after I had completed the modifications required by Canadian standards (carb heat,fire extinguisher, markings,etc). I don`t think I would want it "reinspected" by DOT and be subjected to the wims of an inspector. As far as the battery is concerned though, I think it is a pretty good idea to have it in a securely mounted corrosion proof box just for your own good. I also installed a manifold pressure gauge when I put on the IVO IFA prop. Again, just one more simple device to monitor engine function. I plumbed it using vacuum hose from the balance tube between the carbs on my 912.Got the gauge from Wicks for about $50. I think most regulations are being applied for our own safety and reliability but sometimes get skewed by someones personal interpretation. Cheers Don On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 9:15 AM, RayStL wrote: > > Thanks to all have responded. From communications with the DOT inspector, > it is clear that the quickest solution will be to reference a STC for a cub > or similar that uses an underseat strap down of an AGM battery. I know > Concorde has STCs but I have not tracked down yet if that includes > elimination of the battery box. > > There is a broader, much more disturbing side to this issue. A DOT > inspector wants to revoke approval for something that has already passed > inspection. The installation has not changed. That means any (Canadian) > homebuilt could theoretically revoke approval for any previously approved > installation. It also unjustly (I believe) questions the validity of any > previous inspection through MDRA. > > I know of other Canadian homebuilts using AGMs without battery boxes but I > am not about to cite those as examples. > > --ray > > -------- > Ray St-Laurent > 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330294#330294 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:58 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Unvented AGM? From: "RayStL" Thanks for the references guys. I believe there are some AGM batteries that have a 'vent' port designed to connect to a vent tube from an existing flooded cell battery box. The 'sealed' models with no port are most relevant to my situation. --ray -------- Ray St-Laurent 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330303#330303 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:35 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded > >As far as the battery is concerned though, I think it is a pretty >good idea to have it in a securely mounted corrosion proof box just >for your own good. What degree and style of "bad" would you expect to be held at bay by a "corrosion proof box"? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:36 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Unvented AGM? At 12:59 PM 2/9/2011, you wrote: > >Thanks for the references guys. >I believe there are some AGM batteries that have a 'vent' port >designed to connect to a vent tube from an existing flooded cell >battery box. The 'sealed' models with no port are most relevant to >my situation. That 'vent' tube can be misleading. The VRLA is not a dry or gell battery. Liquid electrolyte is totally contained by capillary action in the fiberglas matting. When these batteries are abused (severe overcharge or discharge) heating internal to the cells will boil water and over- pressure the valve such that excess pressure is allowed to vent. So-called, "sealed" batteries are sealed only to the extent of the pressure relief setting of the valves in the vent holes. The sum total of vented gasses is very small in comparison with the kind of emissions one could get from the classic, vented wet battery. When the battery is abused to a degree that opens the valves, there is still no liquid water-acid emitted, only the mix of gasses disassociated from the small amount of water in the mat. There is a very tiny risk for explosion if the battery is mounted in an airtight container. The risk is not from BATTERY explosion but ignition of the escaped gasses not allowed to waft away in the local breeze. I think we hand some discussions here on the List years ago where I related my experience with a close call for having induced injury or worse to a customer who was using a design of mine that contained a VRLA battery. I also discussed an incident involving a BATTERY BOX explosion in a GlasAir. Had EITHER of these batteries been fitted with a vent-manifold and a tube leading overboard, it's a certainty that these two events would not have unfolded so violently. But be aware that such vent tubes have NOTHING to do with the conducting corrosive liquids overboard and everything to do with reduced risk for explosion. When a VRLA battery is fitted with a vent-tube fitting, the tube can only serve to collect all the gasses from cell vents during an over-pressure event. Functionally, the batteries are no more "sealed" or "vented" than their other commercial contemporaries. Identical risk reduction is achieved by not wrapping an SLVA battery up in an airtight enclosure. See: http://tinyurl.com/5v7f9gl Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:37 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: How the "other side" lives. GE's90115BJetEngineForDelta'sNewB-777-200LR.wmv Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:51 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How the "other side" lives (OOPS) Oops! Lets try that again: http://tinyurl.com/5w49xrr Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:15:50 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded From: "RayStL" To answer Raymond's question: An MDRA inspector is not a civil servant. He is a volunteer. In my case he is also an AME whose livelihood depends on keeping this same DOT inspector happy. I have no doubt that this will eventually be resolved in my favor. If I can find an STC for a similar configuration, it will be done in 2 days. Otherwise I will have to make a full blown presentation before a tribunal that in a process I expect will take at least another 2 months. -------- Ray St-Laurent 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330315#330315 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:24 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Unvented AGM? From: "RayStL" Hi Bob You might find this amusing. It is an excerpt of a message from the DOT inspector where he cherry picks words from the Power Sonic manual. The underlines are his. > Given the right set of circumstances, such as extreme overcharging or shorting of the battery, these gases might vent into the enclosure and create the potential for an explosion when ignited by a spark. Generally, ventilation inherent in most enclosures is sufficient to avoid problems. > > Potential hazards are present, as described by the battery Manufacturer, Power-Sonic. These hazards reflects a requirement to enclose the battery in a vented battery box to ensure aviation safety for other than "During normal operation". He also knows I have crowbar overvoltage protection so extreme overcharging is not possible. --ray -------- Ray St-Laurent 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330320#330320 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:07 AM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: How the "other side" lives (OOPS) 21 million dollars for 1 engine??!! do not archive _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: quarta-feira, 9 de Fevereiro de 2011 18:10 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How the "other side" lives (OOPS) Oops! Lets try that again: http://tinyurl.com/5w49xrr Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:15 PM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded do not archive I hope you are able to resolve it with an STC. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN On 02/09/2011 01:12 PM, RayStL wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RayStL" > > To answer Raymond's question: > An MDRA inspector is not a civil servant. He is a volunteer. In my case he is also an AME whose livelihood depends on keeping this same DOT inspector happy. > > I have no doubt that this will eventually be resolved in my favor. If I can find an STC for a similar configuration, it will be done in 2 days. Otherwise I will have to make a full blown presentation before a tribunal that in a process I expect will take at least another 2 months. > > -------- > Ray St-Laurent > 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330315#330315 > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:00 PM PST US From: Fergus Kyle Subject: AeroElectric-List: D-sub screws Cheers, No matter how you number/letter them, the D-sub series connectors (plugs/sockets) have captured threaded screws which lock pairs together. Bob Nuckols=92 Aeroelectric connection described these as torments because the captured screws are often long thin (1/8=94) jobs witha screwdriver slot at the end which is often unassailable ' due mainly to confined spaces. He proposed replacing them (they are over here anyway, #4-40 threads on the bottom 12mm=1/2 of the screw) by a device which combines 4/40 threads with an extended =91nut=92 which is in effect a hex column anywhere from 12mm to 37mm in length and having either internal or external threads. They are variously called =91spacers=92 or =91standoffs=92 (when used to separate circuit boards usually one end Male and the other female) or=92 couplers =91 or =91coupling nuts=92 when used to join lengths of threaded rods. When the female end of the devices is populated with =BD=94 lengths of 4-40 rod it can replace the difficult screws (para 1 above) with a turning hex of 3/16=94 diameter ' so can be tightened or un- with a small wrench from the side or driven by a 3/16=94 socket from above. I need these because of the positioning of some of my D-sub plugs in difficult corners. Ah, but caution! If you are too follow this regimen by fabricating these jobs, make sure the 4-40 =91jackscrews/spacers/coupling nuts/standoffs=92 are 3/16=94 across BECAUSE they are often flogged with =BC=94 bodies and these latter sizes jam against the body of the plug and are unuseable.....! Best thoughts, Ferg ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:31:29 PM PST US From: "Ron Raby" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded Sure sounds easier to build a box and be done with it. Regards Ron Raby ----- Original Message ----- From: "rayj" Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 3:17 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery box being demanded > > do not archive > > I hope you are able to resolve it with an STC. > > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN > > On 02/09/2011 01:12 PM, RayStL wrote: >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RayStL" >> >> To answer Raymond's question: >> An MDRA inspector is not a civil servant. He is a volunteer. In my case >> he is also an AME whose livelihood depends on keeping this same DOT >> inspector happy. >> >> I have no doubt that this will eventually be resolved in my favor. If I >> can find an STC for a similar configuration, it will be done in 2 days. >> Otherwise I will have to make a full blown presentation before a tribunal >> that in a process I expect will take at least another 2 months. >> >> -------- >> Ray St-Laurent >> 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330315#330315 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:19 PM PST US From: Steve Ruse Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: How the "other side" lives (OOPS) Per horsepower, that is about the same cost as a factory-new O-320 (they said over 100,000hp). But the turbine would probably use a lot less fuel and FAR, FAR less maintenance than 625 O-320 engines! Steve Ruse Norman, OK Quoting Carlos Trigo : > 21 million dollars for 1 engine??!! > > > do not archive > > > _____ > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. > Nuckolls, III > Sent: quarta-feira, 9 de Fevereiro de 2011 18:10 > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How the "other side" lives (OOPS) > > > Oops! Lets try that again: > > http://tinyurl.com/5w49xrr > > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:36 PM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Copper Buss bar Anyone know where to buy a copper buss bar? I need a non-drilled one and another one that is drilled for breaker spacing. (I quess I could drill my own holes) Thanks in advance Barry Davis NX973BP N5166A N70610 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:45:53 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Copper Buss bar At 04:04 PM 2/9/2011, you wrote: >Anyone know where to buy a copper buss bar? I need a non-drilled one >and another one that is drilled for breaker spacing. (I quess I >could drill my own holes) >Thanks in advance "Breaker spacing" is not necessarily standardized. Suggest you drill your own. See: http://www.mcmaster.com/#copper-bar-stock/=aymw4n http://tinyurl.com/5rfc7hl Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:06 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How the "other side" lives (OOPS) From: Robert Borger Let's see ~$27,000 for a new 160 HP AEIO-320 --- that's $168.75 per HP $21,000,000 for a new 100,000 HP GE --- that's $210.00 per HP At 8 gal/hr per O-320 that's 5000 gal/per hour for 625 of them. Wonder what the GE consumes at cruise? After some research it appears to use about 22000L or about 5800 gal an hour of Jet-A. Not a bad comparison, a bit pricey for the GE, but it is probably cheeper to operate and maintain than 625 IO-320's. Besides, can you see a B-777 powered by 625 IO-320's?? Bob Borger Bored with the weather and nothing else to do On Feb 9, 2011, at 14:50, Steve Ruse wrote: > > Per horsepower, that is about the same cost as a factory-new O-320 (they said over 100,000hp). But the turbine would probably use a lot less fuel and FAR, FAR less maintenance than 625 O-320 engines! > > Steve Ruse > Norman, OK > > Quoting Carlos Trigo : > >> 21 million dollars for 1 engine??!! >> >> >> >> do not archive >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. >> Nuckolls, III >> Sent: quarta-feira, 9 de Fevereiro de 2011 18:10 >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How the "other side" lives (OOPS) >> >> >> >> Oops! Lets try that again: >> >> http://tinyurl.com/5w49xrr >> >> >> >> >> Bob . . . >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Copper Buss bar From: simon@synchdes.com Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sender: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com At 04:04 PM 2/9/2011, you wrote: >Anyone know where to buy a copper buss bar? I need a non-drilled one >and another one that is drilled for breaker spacing. (I quess I >could drill my own holes) >Thanks in advance "Breaker spacing" is not necessarily standardized. Suggest you drill your own. See: http://www.mcmaster.com/#copper-bar-stock/=aymw4n http://tinyurl.com/5rfc7hl Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:11 PM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Copper Buss bar Thanks Bob, Got it ordered and it will be delivered to me tomorrow Barry Davis _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 3:41 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Copper Buss bar At 04:04 PM 2/9/2011, you wrote: Anyone know where to buy a copper buss bar? I need a non-drilled one and another one that is drilled for breaker spacing. (I quess I could drill my own holes) Thanks in advance "Breaker spacing" is not necessarily standardized. Suggest you drill your own. See: http://www.mcmaster.com/#copper-bar-stock/=aymw4n http://tinyurl.com/5rfc7hl Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:56:22 PM PST US From: EMAproducts@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: Pitot heat- 02/08/11 I'm sure a 25000+ hour pilot can fly an airplane with only a compass and > an oil pressure gauge. But as a 200 hour wimpy VFR pilot, I'll feel > safer. I personally take offence at the off-handed remark. I once was a new pilot, have trained hundreds a CFI since '62 and I made no comments other than to agree with Bob, whom all respect or they wouldn't be on the list. Perhaps after you have made as many mistakes as I did early in my career you will realize there are very few old, bold pilots and enjoy your flying as much as I have the last 49 years. There have been very few regulations made without blood being shed. Elbie Mendenhall ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re:Stereo Headsets From: Franz Fux Thanks for your help Franz On 09/02/11 8:38 AM, "glen matejcek" wrote: > > > I'll ask a friend at Gentex if he knows anything > > > > > Franz Fux Director of Operations Last Frontier Heliskiing Ltd. Bell 2 Lodge P.O. Box 1237 Vernon, BC, V1T 6N6 CANADA Office Contact T: (250) 558-7980 F: (250) 558-7981 Lodge Contact T: (250) 275-4770 F: (250) 275-4912 http://www.bell2lodge.com --- LAST FRONTIER Heliskiing www.lastfrontierheli.com --- And for some of the best Steelhead Fishing in the world at Bell 2 Lodge www.steelhead-fishing.net ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:30 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot heat At 06:47 PM 2/9/2011, you wrote: > > >I'm sure a 25000+ hour pilot can fly an airplane with only a compass and > > an oil pressure gauge. But as a 200 hour wimpy VFR pilot, I'll feel > > safer. > >I personally take offence at the off-handed remark. Gently my friend, he was only voicing his personal trepidation no doubt borne out of a sense of his own ignorance and low position on the totumpole of experience. We were all there once. It's a fair bet that a 25K hour pilot has at least learned a few things that added to his/her longevity and made them eligible for admission to the priesthood. >. There have been very few regulations made without blood being shed. Indeed, that has ALWAYS been the overtly admitted goal for those-who-know-more-about- airplanes-than-we-do. And indeed, many regulations have obvious, demonstrable benefits . . . but not all . . . especially when misunderstood and misapplied. Witness the recent discussion on the need for adding battery boxes to SVLA batteries. I will suggest that there's an ever-increasing flood of regulations that have no relationship to anyone's loss of blood and a lot to do with empire building. I hypothesized a C-172 taking on ice . . . the pitot system IS heated and offers a degree of confidence. My invitation to the List was to consider how, and under what conditions the IAS indicator was useful for reducing risk. E.g. in a deteriorating situation, at what IAS number do you "get really concerned" and once that point is reached, what's the next step? I have further hypothesized that having a believable IAS reading under this scenario is of little or no value for reducing risks. By the time the airplane is sufficiently crippled as to produce an IAS value of concern, I've suggested that there is no action to take where precise IAS is useful feedback for good pilotage. Rather than taking whacks at our newby friend for voicing valid feelings, how can we team up with must be hundreds of thousands of hours of total experience on this List to reinforce, refute, or refine the basis for his feelings? Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.