Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:55 AM - Battery disconnect switch (Jan de Jong)
2. 07:23 AM - Re: Battery disconnect switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 07:39 AM - Icing Procedures (Valovich, Paul)
4. 07:55 AM - Re: Battery disconnect switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 08:04 AM - Re: Icing Procedures (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 08:04 AM - Re: Icing Procedures ()
7. 08:24 AM - cable ends at BNC and antenna (Mike Welch)
8. 08:44 AM - Used transponder test? (CardinalNSB@aol.com)
9. 08:44 AM - AOA indicator (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
10. 08:49 AM - Re: Battery disconnect switch (Jeff Luckey)
11. 09:24 AM - Re: AOA indicator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 09:27 AM - Re: AOA indicator (Jared Yates)
13. 09:32 AM - Re: Used transponder test? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 11:12 AM - Re: Battery disconnect switch (Jan de Jong)
15. 11:16 AM - Re: Battery disconnect switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 11:20 AM - Re: Re: Battery disconnect switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 11:45 AM - Re: Battery disconnect switch (Ken)
18. 12:09 PM - Re: GPS Jamming (Noel Loveys)
19. 12:13 PM - Re: stereo helmet (Glen Matejcek)
20. 12:26 PM - Re: Aeroelectric-list: Battery disconnect switch (Jan de Jong)
21. 12:26 PM - Re: Re: stereo helmet (RGent1224@aol.com)
22. 12:45 PM - Machine Pin sub-D crimpers (MLWynn@aol.com)
23. 01:08 PM - Re: Battery disconnect switch (Noel Loveys)
24. 02:25 PM - Re: Battery disconnect switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
25. 02:26 PM - 3a fuse blows but 5a doesnt. (Tom Hanaway)
26. 02:30 PM - Re: Re: Aeroelectric-list: Battery disconnect switch (Ken)
27. 02:46 PM - Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers (Peter Eedy)
28. 04:12 PM - Re: Battery disconnect switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
29. 04:14 PM - Re: 3a fuse blows but 5a doesnt. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
30. 04:14 PM - Re: Re: Aeroelectric-list: Battery disconnect switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
31. 04:28 PM - Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
32. 04:51 PM - Re: 3a fuse blows but 5a doesnt. (Tom Hanaway)
33. 05:46 PM - Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers (Bill Watson)
34. 06:01 PM - Re: 3a fuse blows but 5a doesnt. (b d)
35. 06:33 PM - Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
36. 06:48 PM - Low Ohms Adapter Status (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
37. 07:31 PM - Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers (Jared Yates)
38. 08:43 PM - Re: Battery disconnect switch (Jeff Luckey)
39. 11:23 PM - Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers (Bill Watson)
Message 1
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Subject: | Battery disconnect switch |
Please have a look at:
http://www.tycoelectronics.com/prodimages/pdf/130-C.pdf
Latching switch.
Takes no continuous current.
Takes 50ms pulse of 2.5A instead.
Carries 190A. max. 1800A.
Switches 100A.
Weighs a little over half a S701-1.
Costs a little over double a S701-1.
Apart from the trouble of having to make a nice reliable pulse -
is this an attractive option?
Jan de Jong
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Battery disconnect switch |
At 05:50 AM 2/11/2011, you wrote:
>
>Please have a look at:
>http://www.tycoelectronics.com/prodimages/pdf/130-C.pdf
Interesting find! This is but one example
of many that we can expect to come over
the horizon. This one is interesting in that
it's not a solid-state switch. Doing a tear-down
to see how it's assembled would be a great
education.
Lamar has had a solid-state contactor out for
some time. I've heard nothing about it's
utility or performance from users in the field.
An engineer at Lamar was going to send me a
sample but I think it slipped his mind. I
think I'll hit him up again. I thought I might
add a battery master switch to my pickup truck
and use the feature to put some real-time service
on products like these.
Jan, have you attempted to locate a stocking
distributor for this device? Any notion on
what it costs?
Bob . . .
Message 3
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Subject: | Icing Procedures |
We've beat the heated pitot theory to death - how about a topic twist to d
iscuss the step by step procedures one will employ before and after encount
ering actual icing?
My RV-8A has a Gertz heated pitot tube and an AFS 3500 Angle of Attack (I'
m a former Navy carrier pilot so I've be weaned on AOA stuff).
Here's my icing checklist - appreciate comments from those who think they h
ave a better idea.
1. If pilot decides potential icing
conditions exist, or prior to entering
clouds, or at very first sign of ice PIOT HEAT
ON
2. AOA
CHECK/VERIFY OPERATION
3. Indicated Airspeed/AOA
MONITOR/CORRELATE
4. At First Indication of Ice Accumulation CHANGE AL
TITUDE AND/OR COURSE
5. Monitor AOA and IAS
6. If Icing Persists
LAND AS SOON AS PRACTICABLE
7. Enroute to Landing Site CON
TROLABILITY CHECK - (with sufficient altitude for stall/spin recovery)
(slow at 10mph intervals to 100 mph, then 5 mph intervals to approach to st
all)
8. Landing Pattern
100 MPH OR AT LEAST +10 ABOVE APPROACH TO STALL
9. Established on Final
SLOW TO ENSURE SAFE LANDING ATTITUDE (my tailwheel's on the front)
NOTES:
1. Ice accumulation is dynamic, not static. Always be prepared for ha
ndling surprises.
2. Closely monitor handling qualities in the landing pattern; do not
get slow
3. If stall buffet occurs in pattern, abort and increase pattern spee
d on next approach
4. DO NOT STALL IN THE LANDING PATTERN
5. Get the plane safely on deck - do not worry about landing style po
ints
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Battery disconnect switch |
> Jan, have you attempted to locate a stocking
> distributor for this device? Any notion on
> what it costs?
Here it is . . .
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=8860610
If I didn't already have a couple dozen
things on the to-do list, I'd run right out
an buy one. That will have to wait.
Given that it's a Tyco product and designed
for integration into automotive (worse than
airplanes) service, this looks like a really
interesting, low-risk product.
CAUTION: This is a set-reset, two-coil
latched device. Unlike legacy contactors,
it takes POWER to turn it on. It also takes
POWER to turn it off.
This is not necessarily a show-stopper but
you need to figure out how it changes your
master switch wiring/switch selection -and-
how it might affect some abnormal operating
situation.
This is NOT a drop-in, plug-n-play substitution
for the legacy contactor. The price is right
but do the substitution with some thought as
to the effects of new features added to your bag
of tricks.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Icing Procedures |
<snip>
>NOTES:
>1. Ice accumulation is dynamic, not
>static. Always be prepared for handling surprises.
>2. Closely monitor handling qualities in
>the landing pattern; do not get slow
>3. If stall buffet occurs in pattern,
>abort and increase pattern speed on next approach
>4. DO NOT STALL IN THE LANDING PATTERN
>5. Get the plane safely on deck do not
>worry about landing style points
Hear, hear . . .
All points offer due deference and diligence to the
probability that a once comfortable and friendly machine
may be suffering the effects of aerodynamic LSD.
I would add a reminder that pre-stall buffet may be minimal
to non-existent. The way the ice built on my personal
spirit-walk with the ice demons had the effect of adding
full length stall strip to the wing. It broke so quickly
that if there was any pre-stall buffet, it was not
noticeable.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | Icing Procedures |
In VFR weather a good pilot familiar with their craft should be able to
fly without an airspeed indicator. If you can't, you need more practice
to get the feel of your bird. Of course Navy pilots already know this.
Don't be so dependent on numbers.
Glenn E. Long
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Valovich, Paul
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 10:20 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Icing Procedures
We've beat the heated pitot theory to death - how about a topic twist
to discuss the step by step procedures one will employ before and after
encountering actual icing?
My RV-8A has a Gertz heated pitot tube and an AFS 3500 Angle of Attack
(I'm a former Navy carrier pilot so I've be weaned on AOA stuff).
Here's my icing checklist - appreciate comments from those who think
they have a better idea.
1. If pilot decides potential icing
conditions exist, or prior to entering
clouds, or at very first sign of ice PIOT
HEAT ON
2. AOA
CHECK/VERIFY OPERATION
3. Indicated Airspeed/AOA
MONITOR/CORRELATE
4. At First Indication of Ice Accumulation CHANGE
ALTITUDE AND/OR COURSE
5. Monitor AOA and IAS
6. If Icing Persists
LAND AS SOON AS PRACTICABLE
7. Enroute to Landing Site
CONTROLABILITY CHECK - (with sufficient altitude for stall/spin
recovery)
(slow at 10mph intervals to 100 mph, then 5 mph intervals to approach to
stall)
8. Landing Pattern
100 MPH OR AT LEAST +10 ABOVE APPROACH TO STALL
9. Established on Final
SLOW TO ENSURE SAFE LANDING ATTITUDE (my tailwheel's on the front)
NOTES:
1. Ice accumulation is dynamic, not static. Always be prepared for
handling surprises.
2. Closely monitor handling qualities in the landing pattern; do
not get slow
3. If stall buffet occurs in pattern, abort and increase pattern
speed on next approach
4. DO NOT STALL IN THE LANDING PATTERN
5. Get the plane safely on deck - do not worry about landing style
points
Message 7
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Subject: | cable ends at BNC and antenna |
Hi Bob=2C
I am at a point where I'm closing things up pretty soon=2C and my
'at-the-moment' easy access to my antenna cable is about to end.
For clarification=2C plus could you verify something for me?
Since I have a 100' spool of the Belden 9222 triax=2C I used it to constr
uct
my comm & transponder antennas cables. Following the Glasair instructions
=2C
I installed the BNC connectors at the radio end=2C and used the same
method to install the BNC connector at the antenna end. But after
thinking about it=2C I think I did the antenna end wrong. Was the point of
using triax to let it act like a balun? If it was=2C then wouldn't I leave
the
antenna end of the triax outer shield 'open'=2C and construct as per the ba
zooka
balun instructions?
(the comm antenna cable is about 40" long=2C the xponder cable is about 60"
)
Since I have the inner shield AND the outer shields connected at both end
s
(via BNC connectors) can I just leave them this way=2C or should I cut off
the
antenna end=2C and re-do it to where the outer shield does not contact the
inner shield=2C (except as pointed out in the "bazooka balun" instructions)
?
Thanks for your help=2C
Mike Welch
Message 8
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Subject: | Used transponder test? |
Is there a way to test the cavity tube easily and cheaply using cheap
tools, to at least weed out bad cavity tubes before paying an avionics shop for
testing? Thank you. Skip
Message 9
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What effect does icing have on the accuracy of an AOA indicator? Will it
give you an accurate indication of an impending stall if you have
accumulated ice on the wing leading edge?
Roger
Message 10
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Subject: | Battery disconnect switch |
... a quick glance at the fact sheet indicates that a non-latching version
is also available...hmmmm... so why do we (I) want one?
1. includes coil spike-suppression diodes
2. looks cool ;)
3. Price is not bad
It's only a little more expensive than the "standard" can-shaped solenoids
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/masterrelay.php.
Mounting will be different.
If we use the latching capability, does is make circuitry simpler, more
reliable, better, stronger, faster, (will it help prevent icing? - sorry,
couldn't resist ;)
I'm w/ Bob, definitely needs more noodling..
-Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 06:51
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery disconnect switch
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> Jan, have you attempted to locate a stocking
> distributor for this device? Any notion on
> what it costs?
Here it is . . .
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=8860610
If I didn't already have a couple dozen
things on the to-do list, I'd run right out
an buy one. That will have to wait.
Given that it's a Tyco product and designed
for integration into automotive (worse than
airplanes) service, this looks like a really
interesting, low-risk product.
CAUTION: This is a set-reset, two-coil
latched device. Unlike legacy contactors,
it takes POWER to turn it on. It also takes
POWER to turn it off.
This is not necessarily a show-stopper but
you need to figure out how it changes your
master switch wiring/switch selection -and-
how it might affect some abnormal operating
situation.
This is NOT a drop-in, plug-n-play substitution
for the legacy contactor. The price is right
but do the substitution with some thought as
to the effects of new features added to your bag
of tricks.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
At 11:24 AM 2/11/2011, you wrote:
><mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
>
>What effect does icing have on the accuracy of an AOA indicator? Will it
>give you an accurate indication of an impending stall if you have
>accumulated ice on the wing leading edge?
No . . . . Most AOA displays don't give you
an 'angle' display. They generally display bands
of relative goodness/badness shaded in legacy red, yellow
and green. The display will probably be fitted with a
'sweet spot' . . . which represents an AOA value
optimized by much flight testing.
The problem is that the any sweet spot assumes that
the wing is clean and stall breaks at xx.x degrees.
Just lowering flaps can give you a new sweet spot at
yy.y degrees. The more sophisticated AOA display
systems will have inputs for flap position so that
the sweet spot is automatically moved to a new value
confirmed by careful flight testing.
Once you add ice shapes on top of those super whippy,
laminar flow, high efficiency, low drag, etc etc
air foils, the stall break moves to zz.z degrees.
Unless iced over, the AOA sensor will continue to
give you an accurate AOA display. The problem is
that any knowledge the AOA possesses with respect
to airplane performance is now suspect.
It's not a loss of display integrity that bites.
It's a departure from performance conditions under which
IAS or AOA sweet spots were deduced.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
Generally, no, it will not give accurate information. A wing that used to
stall at 13 degrees might stall at 10 or 8 with ice (for instance, these
aren't necessarily accurate numbers). In fact, this has been a source of at
least a few crashes of transport category airplanes that stalled on takeoff
without activation of the stall protection systems. Ice accumulation
combined with an aggressive rotation rate and the ground effect were
sufficient to push the stall AOA below the thresholds for the stick shaker
and pusher, so in some cases the crews didn't even get any indication that
the airplane was stalled, other than the sudden 90 degree bank angle. An
AOA indicator might or might not indicate degrees AOA correctly, but even if
it does, it's information doesn't mean anything, since you don't know what
the stall AOA is of your "new" experimental airfoil shape.
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:24 AM, ROGER & JEAN CURTIS <
mrspudandcompany@verizon.net> wrote:
> mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
>
> What effect does icing have on the accuracy of an AOA indicator? Will it
> give you an accurate indication of an impending stall if you have
> accumulated ice on the wing leading edge?
>
> Roger
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Used transponder test? |
At 11:28 AM 2/11/2011, you wrote:
>Is there a way to test the cavity tube easily and cheaply using
>cheap tools, to at least weed out bad cavity tubes before paying an
>avionics shop for testing? Thank you. Skip
>
>
Easy and cheap need quantification. There ARE ways
to exercise a transponder into 'sqittering' a stream
of replies by hitting it with certain noise sources.
A line operated drill motor has been shown to be
an effective test tool for this purpose.
Then you need a diode detector teed into the
feedline attached to a 'scope for the purpose
of watching the width and magnitude of reply
pulses. Finally, there is a lesser concern for
being tuned to the right frequency.
Of course, you can also just go fly the thing.
Make a temporary installation and see if center
can read your mode c replies. You COULD also
build a jeep box that would simulate encoder inputs
to check altitude reporting too.
What you might want to do is negotiate a go/no-go
bench test as opposed to a full stroke through the
gyrations that would win a yellow-tag for the
transponder.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Battery disconnect switch |
In Europe RS sells the switch for 38.27 and 46,29 -, a lot more than
Allied. And VAT of 20% or so not yet included either!
The plug needed is Tyco 184046-1 with A key (there are A .. D keys) and
is hard to find.
I found only one retail source:
http://www.newunitedracetech.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_15_24&products_id=6114
They charge $2.70.
To be able to use it as a normal on-off switch I am thinking of an
adapter with 3 input pins - ground, power and switch - and the required
4-pin Tyco plug as the output.
Switch to power (from open or ground) would generate an ON pulse, switch
to ground (from open or power) would generate an OFF pulse, switch to
open (from ground or power) would not do anything.
If ever no switching action results when expected: repeat manually -
introducing memory and automatic repeat goes too far I think.
Jan de Jong
Message 15
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Subject: | Battery disconnect switch |
At 11:46 AM 2/11/2011, you wrote:
>
>
>... a quick glance at the fact sheet indicates that a non-latching version
>is also available...hmmmm... so why do we (I) want one?
>
>1. includes coil spike-suppression diodes
>2. looks cool ;)
>3. Price is not bad
Emacs!
This is a direct descendant of the RPM/Stancor/White-Rogers
series of legacy contactors. The 70-111226 is a 3-wire
12v contactor with one coil internally attached to the
'BAT' terminal. It's the same class of contactor we've
been using in small airplanes for many, many moons.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Battery disconnect switch |
>To be able to use it as a normal on-off switch I am thinking of an
>adapter with 3 input pins - ground, power and switch - and the
>required 4-pin Tyco plug as the output.
>Switch to power (from open or ground) would generate an ON pulse,
>switch to ground (from open or power) would generate an OFF pulse,
>switch to open (from ground or power) would not do anything.
>If ever no switching action results when expected: repeat manually -
>introducing memory and automatic repeat goes too far I think.
Another thought. The coil resistance is stated as 4.7 ohms.
This translates to a coil draw on the order of 2.5 amps
while energized. The specs also state 100 mS max for transfer
pulse. This means that you probably have to device control
circuitry that LIMITS control inputs to input pulses having
a fixed and limited duration.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Battery disconnect switch |
4. no continuous coil current for small electric systems
5. wider temperature limits
6. higher current silver contacts
7. they seem to be implying 42 volt disconnect capability which might
make it better for OVP
8. might be acceptable to run electric dependent engine supply through
it whereas I will not do that with the "standard" can-shaped contactor.
9. not subject to damage if the connector bolts turn during installation.
Cons
1. more difficult connections involving extra bolts and a specific
connector that will need to be sourced.
2. more difficult to mount and insulate connections from a metal airframe.
3. ??
On 2/11/2011 11:46 AM, Jeff Luckey wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Luckey"<JLuckey@pacbell.net>
>
>
> ... a quick glance at the fact sheet indicates that a non-latching version
> is also available...hmmmm... so why do we (I) want one?
>
> 1. includes coil spike-suppression diodes
> 2. looks cool ;)
> 3. Price is not bad
>
> It's only a little more expensive than the "standard" can-shaped solenoids
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/masterrelay.php.
>
> Mounting will be different.
>
> If we use the latching capability, does is make circuitry simpler, more
> reliable, better, stronger, faster, (will it help prevent icing? - sorry,
> couldn't resist ;)
>
> I'm w/ Bob, definitely needs more noodling..
>
>
> -Jeff
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
> Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 06:51
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery disconnect switch
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>
>> Jan, have you attempted to locate a stocking
>> distributor for this device? Any notion on
>> what it costs?
>
> Here it is . . .
>
> http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=8860610
>
> If I didn't already have a couple dozen
> things on the to-do list, I'd run right out
> an buy one. That will have to wait.
>
> Given that it's a Tyco product and designed
> for integration into automotive (worse than
> airplanes) service, this looks like a really
> interesting, low-risk product.
>
> CAUTION: This is a set-reset, two-coil
> latched device. Unlike legacy contactors,
> it takes POWER to turn it on. It also takes
> POWER to turn it off.
>
> This is not necessarily a show-stopper but
> you need to figure out how it changes your
> master switch wiring/switch selection -and-
> how it might affect some abnormal operating
> situation.
>
> This is NOT a drop-in, plug-n-play substitution
> for the legacy contactor. The price is right
> but do the substitution with some thought as
> to the effects of new features added to your bag
> of tricks.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 18
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Good point... they (the bureaucrats ) only think it's their box... And their
laws. Every now and again the courts have to set them straight... even up here
in the Great White North
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Sent: February 10, 2011 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS Jamming
Actually, it is OUR sandbox that we pay them to keep open and safe.
David
Roger wrote:
>
>
> As you say its their sand box but they still have to play by the
> rules they laid down.
>
> Noel
>
> NO, you forget that this is the government. Only you have to
> play by their rules, not them!
>
> Roger
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid
of Soros.
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: stereo helmet |
It seems gentex does make stereo installations for their helmets.
It has also been suggested that one could take the guts of most any ANR headset
and install it in a helmet, and that it's been done before as a more cost effective
means to the end.
Glen Matejcek
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: Aeroelectric-list: Battery disconnect switch |
>>To be able to use it as a normal on-off switch I am thinking of an
>>adapter with 3 input pins - ground, power and switch - and the
>>required 4-pin Tyco plug as the output.
>>Switch to power (from open or ground) would generate an ON pulse,
>>switch to ground (from open or power) would generate an OFF pulse,
>>switch to open (from ground or power) would not do anything.
>>If ever no switching action results when expected: repeat manually -
>>introducing memory and automatic repeat goes too far I think.
>
> Another thought. The coil resistance is stated as 4.7 ohms.
> This translates to a coil draw on the order of 2.5 amps
> while energized. The specs also state 100 mS max for transfer
> pulse. This means that you probably have to device control
> circuitry that LIMITS control inputs to input pulses having
> a fixed and limited duration.
Yes - adapter must have power and ground.
Without having put pen to paper I was thinking of a few parts like:
- R and C for 50ms
- comparator with builtin reference and hysteresis good for automotive Vs
- PNP with emitter resistor for 5A current limit or so
- the odd resistor and diode.
Jan de Jong
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: stereo helmet |
The DIY guys might want to check out this site
_http://www.headsetsinc.com/_ (http://www.headsetsinc.com/)
Dick
In a message dated 2/11/2011 2:15:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
aerobubba@earthlink.net writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Glen Matejcek
<aerobubba@earthlink.net>
It seems gentex does make stereo installations for their helmets.
It has also been suggested that one could take the guts of most any ANR
headset and install it in a helmet, and that it's been done before as a more
cost effective means to the end.
Glen Matejcek
Message 22
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Subject: | Machine Pin sub-D crimpers |
Hi all,
I have been cruising the archives to clarify a question about crimping
sub-D pins. If I understand this correctly, there are sub-D pins that are
machined and those that are stamped. The machined ones are significantly
higher in quality and are recommended. I understand there are standard and
high density pins. What is the difference? Do they need a different crimper?
Are the pins that B&C sells considered high density or standard?
There are also pins for designed for soldering, but they are probably
best avoided. Are there any circumstances in which soldered pins are
preferable?
B&C sells a machined pin crimper, RCT-3
_http://www.bandc.biz/d-submachinedpincrimptool.aspx_ (http://www.bandc.biz/d-submachinedpincrimptool.aspx)
that is designed for machine pin crimps. Is this okay for both standard
and high density pins?
On the Vertical Power web site (am an installing a VP-X system) they say to
only use the high priced crimper. They will rent you one for $10 a month
or sell in to $300. Steinair has a high priced Daniels Crimper
_http://steinair.com/images/store/afm8.jpg_
(http://steinair.com/images/store/afm8.jpg)
Which they describe as good for regular and high density pins.
So, my basic questions are:
1. what is the difference between standard machined sub-D pins and high
density pins?
2. Am I okay with the RCT-3 crimper or should I rent or buy an expensive
one?
Thanks,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Wiring
San Ramon, CA
Message 23
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Subject: | Battery disconnect switch |
Bob do you normally run your starter through this contactor?
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: February 11, 2011 2:42 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Battery disconnect switch
At 11:46 AM 2/11/2011, you wrote:
... a quick glance at the fact sheet indicates that a non-latching version
is also available...hmmmm... so why do we (I) want one?
1. includes coil spike-suppression diodes
2. looks cool ;)
3. Price is not bad
Emacs!
This is a direct descendant of the RPM/Stancor/White-Rogers
series of legacy contactors. The 70-111226 is a 3-wire
12v contactor with one coil internally attached to the
'BAT' terminal. It's the same class of contactor we've
been using in small airplanes for many, many moons.
Bob . . .
Message 24
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Subject: | Battery disconnect switch |
At 04:05 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote:
>Bob do you normally run your starter through this contactor?
Sure. It's been done in a couple hundred thousand
airplanes for 70 years.
This contactor doesn't have to SWITCH starter current,
only CARRY it. Not a big deal
Bob . . .
Message 25
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Subject: | 3a fuse blows but 5a doesnt. |
I have led warning lights for door's being latched (20awg). I'm also
running a stall warning wire (18awg) to the same fuse.
If I use a 3 amp fuse, it blows immediately when power turns on and both
led lights go out.
If I put in a 5 amp, the system works as designed and lights stay on
indicating doors not latched.
I realize I'll want to go in and trace all the wires to make sure I don't
have an unintentional ground but I don't understand why one fuse pops
immediately and one slightly larger doesn't.
As stated above, running a 20 and 18 awg at this fuse.
Thanks in advance,
Tom Hanaway
RV-10
Boynton Beach, FL
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: Aeroelectric-list: Battery disconnect switch |
Suspect that it would work just fine for many years with a momentary
spring loaded on-off-on toggle switch and no conditioning circuitry.
Ken
On 2/11/2011 3:22 PM, Jan de Jong wrote:
> <jan_de_jong@casema.nl>
>
>>> To be able to use it as a normal on-off switch I am thinking of an
>>> adapter with 3 input pins - ground, power and switch - and the
>>> required 4-pin Tyco plug as the output.
>>> Switch to power (from open or ground) would generate an ON pulse,
>>> switch to ground (from open or power) would generate an OFF pulse,
>>> switch to open (from ground or power) would not do anything.
>>> If ever no switching action results when expected: repeat manually -
>>> introducing memory and automatic repeat goes too far I think.
>>
>> Another thought. The coil resistance is stated as 4.7 ohms.
>> This translates to a coil draw on the order of 2.5 amps
>> while energized. The specs also state 100 mS max for transfer
>> pulse. This means that you probably have to device control
>> circuitry that LIMITS control inputs to input pulses having
>> a fixed and limited duration.
>
> Yes - adapter must have power and ground.
> Without having put pen to paper I was thinking of a few parts like:
> - R and C for 50ms
> - comparator with builtin reference and hysteresis good for automotive Vs
> - PNP with emitter resistor for 5A current limit or so
> - the odd resistor and diode.
>
> Jan de Jong
>
>
Message 27
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Subject: | Machine Pin sub-D crimpers |
Hi
FYI
I purchased the Daniels direct with std crimper inserts (k13-1 - not for
high density pins) for:
AFM8-K13-1
CRIMP TOOL WITH K13-1 POSITIONER
1
$271.26
$271.26
+ $20 USD delivered to Australia
Great piece of kit worth every penny!
www.dmctools.com
Peter Eedy
70 - 72 Parry Street
COOKS HILL NSW 2300
Australia.
Waiex #109 under construction.
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
MLWynn@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, 12 February 2011 7:42 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers
Hi all,
I have been cruising the archives to clarify a question about crimping sub-D
pins. If I understand this correctly, there are sub-D pins that are
machined and those that are stamped. The machined ones are significantly
higher in quality and are recommended. I understand there are standard and
high density pins. What is the difference? Do they need a different
crimper? Are the pins that B&C sells considered high density or standard?
There are also pins for designed for soldering, but they are probably best
avoided. Are there any circumstances in which soldered pins are preferable?
B&C sells a machined pin crimper, RCT-3
http://www.bandc.biz/d-submachinedpincrimptool.aspx
that is designed for machine pin crimps. Is this okay for both standard and
high density pins?
On the Vertical Power web site (am an installing a VP-X system) they say to
only use the high priced crimper. They will rent you one for $10 a month or
sell in to $300. Steinair has a high priced Daniels Crimper
http://steinair.com/images/store/afm8.jpg
Which they describe as good for regular and high density pins.
So, my basic questions are:
1. what is the difference between standard machined sub-D pins and high
density pins?
2. Am I okay with the RCT-3 crimper or should I rent or buy an expensive
one?
Thanks,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Wiring
San Ramon, CA
Message 28
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Subject: | Re: Battery disconnect switch |
>
>8. might be acceptable to run electric dependent engine supply
>through it whereas I will not do that with the "standard" can-shaped contactor.
I might repeat a past recommendation that stuff needed
to keep an engine lit should probably run directly from
a battery bus.
Bob . . .
Message 29
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Subject: | Re: 3a fuse blows but 5a doesnt. |
At 05:16 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote:
>I have led warning lights for door's being latched (20awg). I'm
>also running a stall warning wire (18awg) to the same fuse.
>
>If I use a 3 amp fuse, it blows immediately when power turns on
>and both led lights go out.
>If I put in a 5 amp, the system works as designed and lights stay on
>indicating doors not latched.
>
>I realize I'll want to go in and trace all the wires to make sure I
>don't have an unintentional ground but I don't understand why one
>fuse pops immediately and one slightly larger doesn't.
how much current flows in the protected circuit.
If you had a unintentional ground, no fuse would
stay intact. >But if you had, say 4A of current
flowing in this circuit, then a 3A would blow
quickly and a 5A would hang around.
Can you scan and publish a schematic of the
system you're trouble-shooting?
Bob . . .
Message 30
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Subject: | Re: Aeroelectric-list: Battery disconnect switch |
At 05:24 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote:
>
>Suspect that it would work just fine for many years with a momentary
>spring loaded on-off-on toggle switch and no conditioning circuitry.
I suspect you're right.
Bob . . .
Message 31
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Subject: | Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers |
At 03:42 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I have been cruising the archives to clarify a question about
>crimping sub-D pins. If I understand this correctly, there are
>sub-D pins that are machined and those that are stamped. The
>machined ones are significantly higher in quality and are
>recommended. I understand there are standard and high density
>pins. What is the difference?
Standard D-sub pins will accept 20AWG wires,
HD-sub pins are limited to 22AWG wire.
>Do they need a different crimper? Are the pins that B&C sells
>considered high density or standard?
They sell standard density pins, I think Steinair
can supply both.
>
> There are also pins for designed for soldering, but they are
> probably best avoided. Are there any circumstances in which
> soldered pins are preferable?
No
>
>B&C sells a machined pin crimper,
>RCT-3
><http://www.bandc.biz/d-submachinedpincrimptool.aspx>http://www.bandc..biz/d-submachinedpincrimptool.aspx
>that is designed for machine pin crimps. Is this okay for both
>standard and high density pins?
It's designed for Standard D pins. I don't
have any HD-pins on hand to check again but
I believe the RCT-3 puts an adequate mash on
the HD pins. If somebody has a half dozen
HD pins they can donate to the cause, I'll
test the RCT-3 again and cross-section the
joints for microscopic inspection.
On the Vertical Power web site (am an installing a VP-X system)
they say to only use the high priced crimper. They will rent you one
for $10 a month or sell in to $300. Steinair has a high priced Daniels Crimper
><http://steinair.com/images/store/afm8.jpg>http://steinair.com/images/store/afm8.jpg
>
>Which they describe as good for regular and high density pins.
Correct . . . with a change out of the
positioner. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Tools/Daniels/ConnectorToolingGuide.pdf
>
>So, my basic questions are:
>1. what is the difference between standard machined sub-D pins and
>high density pins?
size
>2. Am I okay with the RCT-3 crimper or should I rent or buy an expensive one?
The B&C RCT-3 (Eclipse Tool Co. 4-quad) tool has
been around for at least 10 years. I own and
have used several for that period of time . . .
I also have a set of Daniels tools and positioners.
The less expensive tools are in my knock-around
toolboxes, the 'good' stuff is on the bench. I
use them interchangeably with good results.
If you can get all your d-sub work done in a few
months, Stein's rental fee is a good deal . . .
but you'd probably want to own an el-cheepo
for future maintenance and/or expansion.
Bob . . .
Message 32
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Subject: | 3a fuse blows but 5a doesnt. |
Bob,
It was an unintentional ground. I hadn't hooked up the final stall warning
buzzer and the wires were lying on the bottom of the fuselage. I don't have
a schematic of this portion of the system, just coded wires.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 3a fuse blows but 5a doesnt.
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 05:16 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote:
>I have led warning lights for door's being latched (20awg). I'm
>also running a stall warning wire (18awg) to the same fuse.
>
>If I use a 3 amp fuse, it blows immediately when power turns on
>and both led lights go out.
>If I put in a 5 amp, the system works as designed and lights stay on
>indicating doors not latched.
>
>I realize I'll want to go in and trace all the wires to make sure I
>don't have an unintentional ground but I don't understand why one
>fuse pops immediately and one slightly larger doesn't.
how much current flows in the protected circuit.
If you had a unintentional ground, no fuse would
stay intact. >But if you had, say 4A of current
flowing in this circuit, then a 3A would blow
quickly and a 5A would hang around.
Can you scan and publish a schematic of the
system you're trouble-shooting?
Bob . . .
Message 33
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Subject: | Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers |
FWIW, I just posted my experience with a low cost crimper on my log:
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=6577
Though I can't justify buying a $300 crimper for the project now, you
can pay a price for going cheaper unless you are careful. The D-Sub
wire/pin connection is really easy, fast, clean and seems reliable but
it can be screwed up by a defective tool. I'm happy with my repaired
cheap crimper at this point.
Bob, thanks again for helping me get to the bottom of this one last year.
Bill Watson
> B&C sells a machined pin crimper, RCT-3
> http://www.bandc.biz/d-submachinedpincrimptool.aspx
> that is designed for machine pin crimps. Is this okay for both
> standard and high density pins?
> On the Vertical Power web site (am an installing a VP-X system) they
> say to only use the high priced crimper. They will rent you one for
> $10 a month or sell in to $300. Steinair has a high priced Daniels
> Crimper
> http://steinair.com/images/store/afm8.jpg
>
> 2. Am I okay with the RCT-3 crimper or should I rent or buy an
> expensive one?
> Thanks,
> Michael Wynn
> RV 8 Wiring
> San Ramon, CA
> *
>
>
> *
Message 34
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|
Subject: | Re: 3a fuse blows but 5a doesnt. |
Rather than use fuses to guess at your amperage, use an ammeter and put in
series. It's not a short, so no need to trace wiring. Its simply how much
current is being used. The fuse is sized to protect the wire. The wire is
sized to supply the device. I don't know off hand the protection required
for a 20awg and an 18 awg. I also don't know the nominal current required
for your devices. You must begin there. Is the device using more current
than it is designed to use? In the case of multiple devices, the device
currents must be added to know the total current. Then is the wire capable
of handling all devices or must they be wired and fused separately. Begin a
t
the device . . . read what the specs are, measure the current with an
ammeter not a fuse.
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Tom Hanaway <tomhanaway@comcast.net> wrote
:
> I have led warning lights for door=92s being latched (20awg). I=92m als
o
> running a stall warning wire (18awg) to the same fuse.
>
>
> If I use a 3 amp fuse, it blows immediately when power turns on and both
> led lights go out.
>
> If I put in a 5 amp, the system works as designed and lights stay on
> indicating doors not latched.
>
>
> I realize I=92ll want to go in and trace all the wires to make sure I don
=92t
> have an unintentional ground but I don=92t understand why one fuse pops
> immediately and one slightly larger doesn=92t.
>
>
> As stated above, running a 20 and 18 awg at this fuse.
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Tom Hanaway
>
> RV-10
>
> Boynton Beach, FL
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 35
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Subject: | Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers |
At 08:40 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote:
>FWIW, I just posted my experience with a low cost crimper on my log:
><http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=6577>http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=6577
>
>Though I can't justify buying a $300 crimper for the project now,
>you can pay a price for going cheaper unless you are careful. The
>D-Sub wire/pin connection is really easy, fast, clean and seems
>reliable but it can be screwed up by a defective tool. I'm happy
>with my repaired cheap crimper at this point.
>
>Bob, thanks again for helping me get to the bottom of this one last year.
Sure. I'd forgotten about that conversation.
B&C had been doing the same checks and modifications
to the RTC-3 tools as described in this folder
of my website:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/
I modified all the crimpers I was selling and marked
the tools as AEC Modified. But Bill reminded me that
the cognizant purchaser of this tool will check for
the necessary modification.
Bob . . .
Message 36
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Subject: | Low Ohms Adapter Status |
I've just finished the proof of concept article
for an AEC9008-1 Low Ohms Adapter. The pictures
are here:
http://tinyurl.com/4f5j3cu
The photos include two live tests. In one photo,
the companion VOM (not supplied) is shown on the 2V
setting. This translates to a 19.99 ohms full scale
display on the VOM. I've fitted a 3.9 ohm resistor
into the clips which produces a reading of "396" or 3.96 ohms.
The other photo shows the clips connected together
and the VOM on the 200 mV scale for a resistance reading
of 1.999 ohms full scale. We can see that the almost-
but-not-quite 4-wire measurement has a residual resistance
reading on the order of 3 millohms.
When using the instrument on the 20 ohm scale, the 3 milliohm
error is insignificant. on the 2 ohm scale, one might improve
on the reading my subtracting 3 milliohms from the displayed
reading.
I've made some tooling for getting the holes drilled
quickly. I've worked out some other pesky packaging
issues. The production batch should go pretty smoothly
now.
Bob . . .
Message 37
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Subject: | Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers |
If I understand correctly, this is great news. I have this crimper:
http://steinair.com/images/store/SAT004.jpg
<http://steinair.com/images/store/SAT004.jpg>but was just scratching my head
figuring out how I was going to handle what appear to be HD pins on my
GNS430 backplate. Do I understand correctly that with careful depth
positioning, I should be able to use the above tool to crimp a few high
density pins too? Stein explicitly says that the above tool is not for HD
pins, which I accepted as truth without any investigation.
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 08:40 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote:
>
> FWIW, I just posted my experience with a low cost crimper on my log:
> http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=6577
>
> Though I can't justify buying a $300 crimper for the project now, you can
> pay a price for going cheaper unless you are careful. The D-Sub wire/pin
> connection is really easy, fast, clean and seems reliable but it can be
> screwed up by a defective tool. I'm happy with my repaired cheap crimper at
> this point.
>
> Bob, thanks again for helping me get to the bottom of this one last year.
>
>
> Sure. I'd forgotten about that conversation.
> B&C had been doing the same checks and modifications
> to the RTC-3 tools as described in this folder
> of my website:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/
>
> I modified all the crimpers I was selling and marked
> the tools as AEC Modified. But Bill reminded me that
> the cognizant purchaser of this tool will check for
> the necessary modification.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
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Subject: | Battery disconnect switch |
Thinking out loud...
Some failure analysis & comparison:
With this new product, since it is not continually energized, it would be
less susceptible to in-flight failure due to coil failure, yes? With a
conventional solenoid, if the coil breaks or burns-up, the contactor will
open. Not the case w/ this device.
In that same vein, it would be less prone to a failure of the wiring to the
switch. With the conventional, continuous-duty solenoid, any breakage or
loose connection in the wire to the master switch would cause the contactor
to open.
With this new latching device, once it's on, a failure the wiring to the
switch would not cause it to open.
For these reasons, the new device might just be a little more "reliable"
than a conventional solenoid. (This, of course, assumes that it is a
well-engineered, high-quality device.)
What do you think?
-Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 14:25
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Aeroelectric-list: Battery disconnect
switch
Suspect that it would work just fine for many years with a momentary
spring loaded on-off-on toggle switch and no conditioning circuitry.
Ken
On 2/11/2011 3:22 PM, Jan de Jong wrote:
> <jan_de_jong@casema.nl>
>
>>> To be able to use it as a normal on-off switch I am thinking of an
>>> adapter with 3 input pins - ground, power and switch - and the
>>> required 4-pin Tyco plug as the output.
>>> Switch to power (from open or ground) would generate an ON pulse,
>>> switch to ground (from open or power) would generate an OFF pulse,
>>> switch to open (from ground or power) would not do anything.
>>> If ever no switching action results when expected: repeat manually -
>>> introducing memory and automatic repeat goes too far I think.
>>
>> Another thought. The coil resistance is stated as 4.7 ohms.
>> This translates to a coil draw on the order of 2.5 amps
>> while energized. The specs also state 100 mS max for transfer
>> pulse. This means that you probably have to device control
>> circuitry that LIMITS control inputs to input pulses having
>> a fixed and limited duration.
>
> Yes - adapter must have power and ground.
> Without having put pen to paper I was thinking of a few parts like:
> - R and C for 50ms
> - comparator with builtin reference and hysteresis good for automotive Vs
> - PNP with emitter resistor for 5A current limit or so
> - the odd resistor and diode.
>
> Jan de Jong
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers |
On 2/11/2011 10:19 PM, Jared Yates wrote:
> If I understand correctly, this is great news. I have this crimper:
>
> http://steinair.com/images/store/SAT004.jpg
>
> but was just scratching my head figuring out how I was going to handle
> what appear to be HD pins on my GNS430 backplate. Do I understand
> correctly that with careful depth positioning, I should be able to use
> the above tool to crimp a few high density pins too? Stein explicitly
> says that the above tool is not for HD pins, which I accepted as truth
> without any investigation.
I can't speak to the HD pins and at this point, I would take Stein's
opinion as fact unless and until Bob gets a chance to test or someone
else can chime in. I didn't have to do any HD pins.
To be clear, the depth positioning problem is a potential problem with
standard pins. I'm guessing that the HD pin is thinner (and the
Daniel's tool handles that by changing crimp heads or something).
I went back to my records and the crimper I have is from Stein. From
Bob's comments, it seems that the defect is not universal but you should
check. With the defect, you can make a whole bunch of substandard
crimps without realizing it... the last thing you want is some
intermittent connection among 20-some wires among a dozen different
D-sub plugs.
Bill Watson
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