Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:26 AM - Re: Aeroelectric-list: Battery disconnect switch (Jan de Jong)
2. 04:57 AM - Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers (Ed Anderson)
3. 05:35 AM - Re: Battery disconnect switchRe: Aeroelectric-list: Battery disconnect (dfritzj)
4. 05:49 AM - Re: Battery disconnect switchRe: Aeroelectric-list: Battery disconnect (dfritzj)
5. 05:49 AM - Re: Icing ProceduresIcing Procedures (dfritzj)
6. 05:55 AM - Re: Icing ProceduresIcing Procedures (dfritzj)
7. 05:55 AM - Re: AOA indicator (DeWitt Whittington)
8. 07:03 AM - Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 07:14 AM - Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 07:27 AM - Re: Battery disconnect switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 07:27 AM - Re: Battery disconnect switch (Charlie England)
12. 07:59 AM - Re: AOA indicator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 08:28 AM - Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers AND Vertical Power Crimper (John Grosse)
14. 08:34 AM - Re: Battery disconnect switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 09:00 AM - Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers AND Vertical Power Crimper (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 09:08 AM - Re: AOA indicator (paul wilson)
17. 09:08 AM - Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers (Bill Watson)
18. 09:40 AM - Soldered D-sub machined pins (jonlaury)
19. 09:49 AM - Honeywell Rocker lamp wiring (jonlaury)
20. 10:31 AM - Re: AOA indicator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 10:54 AM - ALTRAK Dimmer Circuit (Mark Sletten)
22. 11:04 AM - Warning tone (Sheldon Olesen)
23. 12:18 PM - Re: Honeywell Rocker lamp wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 12:19 PM - Re: Soldered D-sub machined pins (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
25. 12:25 PM - Re: Warning tone (Bob Leffler)
26. 12:34 PM - Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers (Stein Bruch)
27. 12:42 PM - Re: AOA indicator (Richard E. Tasker)
28. 02:05 PM - Re: AOA indicator (paul wilson)
29. 02:48 PM - Re: Honeywell Rocker lamp wiring (jonlaury)
30. 05:06 PM - Re: Battery disconnect switch (Speedy11@aol.com)
31. 05:09 PM - Re: AOA indicator (The Kuffels)
32. 06:05 PM - Re: AOA indicator (Richard E. Tasker)
33. 06:22 PM - Re: Honeywell Rocker lamp wiring (Bill Watson)
34. 06:54 PM - Re: Open squelch (Brantel)
35. 07:43 PM - Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers AND Vertical Power Crimper (MLWynn@aol.com)
36. 07:45 PM - Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers (MLWynn@aol.com)
37. 07:54 PM - Re: Re: Battery disconnect switch (Noel Loveys)
38. 08:26 PM - Re: Re: Open squelch (Tim Andres)
39. 09:13 PM - Re: AOA indicator (The Kuffels)
40. 10:06 PM - Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers (rparigoris)
41. 10:51 PM - solid state relays (James Robinson)
42. 11:08 PM - Re: Re: Battery disconnect switch (Jeff Luckey)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Aeroelectric-list: Battery disconnect switch |
>Suspect that it would work just fine for many years with a momentary
>spring loaded on-off-on toggle switch and no conditioning circuitry.
I think so too.
It is just for present relay uses that need on-off action that a pulse
would have to made.
An example would be the aux battery auto-connect function.
But that can be a smaller regular relay if the aux battery does not help
cranking.
Manual on could be replaced by 2 actions (2 switches): enable then
momentary-on.
Manual off by: momentary-off then disable.
>What do you think?
>
>-Jeff
I think so too.
It should not get hot.
And it holds position at 40g it says.
Jan de Jong
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers |
I received the machine pin crimper from Steinair and it took a few flawed
crimps to realize that the depth stop was not correct for the size machine
pins I was using.
The pin dropped too far into the crimping hole. I solved this by cutting a
piece of heavy gauge wire to the needed length and dropping it into the
hole. This prevented the pin from going too far into the hole for good
crimping. That solved the problem.
I since discovered that the maker of that crimper makes two sizes one for
14-22 gauge wire and the larger pins and one for 22-28 gauge wire and
smaller pins. I think the only difference is the adjustable depth stop.
Ed
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Bill Watson" <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 2:15 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers
> <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>
>
> On 2/11/2011 10:19 PM, Jared Yates wrote:
>> If I understand correctly, this is great news. I have this crimper:
>>
>> http://steinair.com/images/store/SAT004.jpg
>>
>> but was just scratching my head figuring out how I was going to handle
>> what appear to be HD pins on my GNS430 backplate. Do I understand
>> correctly that with careful depth positioning, I should be able to use
>> the above tool to crimp a few high density pins too? Stein explicitly
>> says that the above tool is not for HD pins, which I accepted as truth
>> without any investigation.
> I can't speak to the HD pins and at this point, I would take Stein's
> opinion as fact unless and until Bob gets a chance to test or someone else
> can chime in. I didn't have to do any HD pins.
>
> To be clear, the depth positioning problem is a potential problem with
> standard pins. I'm guessing that the HD pin is thinner (and the Daniel's
> tool handles that by changing crimp heads or something).
>
> I went back to my records and the crimper I have is from Stein. From
> Bob's comments, it seems that the defect is not universal but you should
> check. With the defect, you can make a whole bunch of substandard crimps
> without realizing it... the last thing you want is some intermittent
> connection among 20-some wires among a dozen different D-sub plugs.
>
> Bill Watson
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Battery disconnect switchRe: Aeroelectric-list: |
Battery disconnect
My $.02 for what it's worth and to add to your collective reflection: the battery
disconnect switch also serves the purpose of shutting down the electrical system
rapidly with one switch in the event of an emergency (or 'abnormal') situation.
With this contactor, you need to be able to supply voltage to it in order
to shut the system down, which may not be available after an off-field landing
or fire (due to broken/burnt switching wires).
Dan
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Battery disconnect switchRe: Aeroelectric-list: |
Battery disconnect
My $.02 for what it's worth and to add to your collective reflection: the battery
disconnect switch also serves the purpose of shutting down the electrical system
rapidly with one switch in the event of an emergency (or 'abnormal') situation.
With this contactor, you need to be able to supply voltage to it in order
to shut the system down, which may not be available after an off-field landing
or fire (due to broken/burnt switching wires).
Dan
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Icing ProceduresIcing Procedures |
One thing worth keeping in mind is that in the vast majority of fatal mishaps there
is a cascading of stressors on the aircrew (poor weather, mechanical/electrical
malfunction, radio chatter, etc.). Anything that can reduce one or several
of those stressors is a good thing that could avoid a mishap. As most of us
are used to using airspeed as an important reference during approach to land,
a valid airspeed indication will be a significant stress reduction by maintaining
a standard crosscheck, even if the pilot has determined a higher than normal
approach speed through a controllability check at altitude. A heated pitot
properly installed is a significant help in ensuring valid airspeed indications
whenever operating in visible moisture (i.e. clouds). I for one will install
a heated pitot in my Velocity and test it prior to every IFR flight; I recommend
anyone planning IFR operations do the same.
Dan
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Icing ProceduresIcing Procedures |
One thing worth keeping in mind is that in the vast majority of fatal mishaps there
is a cascading of stressors on the aircrew (poor weather, mechanical/electrical
malfunction, radio chatter, etc.). Anything that can reduce one or several
of those stressors is a good thing that could avoid a mishap. As most of us
are used to using airspeed as an important reference during approach to land,
a valid airspeed indication will be a significant stress reduction by maintaining
a standard crosscheck, even if the pilot has determined a higher than normal
approach speed through a controllability check at altitude. A heated pitot
properly installed is a significant help in ensuring valid airspeed indications
whenever operating in visible moisture (i.e. clouds). I for one will install
a heated pitot in my Velocity and test it prior to every IFR flight; I recommend
anyone planning IFR operations do the same.
Dan
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
Even though what Bob says about the critical angle of attack changing
with the accretion of ice is, of course, correct, it would be good to
have an AOA indicator which was not killed by ice. I just remembered
that our new Grand Rapids HX (and in fact all new Grand Rapids EFIS
units) now have a "AOA Indexer" built in. They display angle of
attack on the left side of the screen derived from, I think, AHARS
data, not from unheated pin holes in the wing.
Unfortunately, the GRT web site currently does not explain, or even
mention this new feature. I've just brought this to the attention of
Carlos Fernandez at GRT and he promised to update the web site.
Dee
At 11:19 AM 2/11/2011, you wrote:
><nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>At 11:24 AM 2/11/2011, you wrote:
>><mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
>>
>>What effect does icing have on the accuracy of an AOA indicator? Will it
>>give you an accurate indication of an impending stall if you have
>>accumulated ice on the wing leading edge?
>
> No . . . . Most AOA displays don't give you
> an 'angle' display. They generally display bands
> of relative goodness/badness shaded in legacy red, yellow
> and green. The display will probably be fitted with a
> 'sweet spot' . . . which represents an AOA value
> optimized by much flight testing.
>
> The problem is that the any sweet spot assumes that
> the wing is clean and stall breaks at xx.x degrees.
> Just lowering flaps can give you a new sweet spot at
> yy.y degrees. The more sophisticated AOA display
> systems will have inputs for flap position so that
> the sweet spot is automatically moved to a new value
> confirmed by careful flight testing.
>
> Once you add ice shapes on top of those super whippy,
> laminar flow, high efficiency, low drag, etc etc
> air foils, the stall break moves to zz.z degrees.
>
> Unless iced over, the AOA sensor will continue to
> give you an accurate AOA display. The problem is
> that any knowledge the AOA possesses with respect
> to airplane performance is now suspect.
>
> It's not a loss of display integrity that bites.
> It's a departure from performance conditions under which
> IAS or AOA sweet spots were deduced.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
DeWitt (Dee) Whittington
406 N Mulberry St
Richmond, VA 23220-3320
(804) 358-4333 phone and fax
SKYPE: hilltopkid
dee.whittington@gmail.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers |
At 07:50 AM 2/12/2011, you wrote:
><eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
>I received the machine pin crimper from Steinair and it took a few
>flawed crimps to realize that the depth stop was not correct for the
>size machine pins I was using.
>
>The pin dropped too far into the crimping hole. I solved this by
>cutting a piece of heavy gauge wire to the needed length and
>dropping it into the hole. This prevented the pin from going too
>far into the hole for good crimping. That solved the problem.
>
>I since discovered that the maker of that crimper makes two sizes
>one for 14-22 gauge wire and the larger pins and one for 22-28 gauge
>wire and smaller pins. I think the only difference is the
>adjustable depth stop.
14-22 AWG is a pretty wide range for
a single "squish" setting on a 4-quad
tool. The Daniels tools have interchangeable
positioners in addition to a 'selector knob'
which adjusts the depth of punch penetration
for each combination of wire/pin.
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/Daniels_4-Quad_3.JPG
Without an adjustable penetration, the tool
is limited in terms of the total amount of
metal (wire strands + pin) that can be
minimally upset (gas tight) to maximum
upset (degradation of structural integrity).
There is an IDEAL crimp for all wire/pin
combinations. I think I found that 22AWG
wires in HD pins were minimally installed
with the Eclipse tool. Smaller wires would
have to be doubled over in the pins to
provide enough 'meat' to achieve the
gas-tight condition when the tool closed.
But that was a lot of years ago and I'd
have to repeat the experiment to confirm.
In any case, the Eclipse tool is just fine
for the standard density pins once it's
been checked and corrected as necessary
for positioning of the pin.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers |
>I went back to my records and the crimper I have is from
>Stein. From Bob's comments, it seems that the defect is not
>universal but you should check. With the defect, you can make a
>whole bunch of substandard crimps without realizing it... the last
>thing you want is some intermittent connection among 20-some wires
>among a dozen different D-sub plugs.
All the time I was selling the Eclipse tool, I found
it necessary to 'fix' the positioners. At some point
after I sold that business to B&C, I think we saw
some tools that didn't need modification but since
it wasn't my ballywick at the time, I don't recall
the details. I do recall several conversations with
Tim @ B&C where we discussed the necessity for checking
all incoming batches of tools and fixing them as
needed and marking the tools as 'modified'.
Having the crimp too far back on the pin does not
present a great risk. The grip on 22AWG strands is
still gas-tight. There IS perhaps a compromise of design
goals for resistance to breakage due to flexure of
the stress-concentration at the boundary of the crimp.
I would be contemplative of this only if the connector
was installed without a hood for bundle support behind
the connectors.
If anyone discovers they've installed a bunch
of mis-positioned pins with this tool, I don't
think there's any need for a do-over if the
connectors in question have hoods on them.
This tool has been in production for decades.
If there were any serious issues with what we've
identified as a missed design goal, I think it
would have surfaced and caused the tool to be
modified by the manufacturer or discontinued.
I wrote to Eclipse once making them aware of
my findings. I thought that the few "on target"
tools we saw might have been the result of
that letter . . . or not.
In any case, let's not elevate the issue to
levels of concern unsupported by experience
and consideration of the simple-ideas.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Battery disconnect switch |
At 11:36 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote:
Thinking out loud...
Some failure analysis & comparison:
With this new product, since it is not continually energized, it would be
less susceptible to in-flight failure due to coil failure, yes?
Yes, but in-flight coil failures are exceedingly
rare and unlike our TC aircraft brothers, we're
'failure tolerant' of that possibility.
With a
conventional solenoid, if the coil breaks or burns-up, the contactor will
open. Not the case w/ this device.
Correct.
In that same vein, it would be less prone to a failure of the wiring to the
switch. With the conventional, continuous-duty solenoid, any breakage or
loose connection in the wire to the master switch would cause the contactor
to open.
Correct, but also very rare and covered in our
failure tolerant architectures.
With this new latching device, once it's on, a failure the wiring to the
switch would not cause it to open.
Correct.
For these reasons, the new device might just be a little more "reliable"
than a conventional solenoid. (This, of course, assumes that it is a
well-engineered, high-quality device.)
It is a Tyco product so it's pedigree is
good. It's obviously not a can't-ever-happen
guarantee but it's still quite good.
What do you think?
Good thoughts all. Let's continue to consider
how this device fits into (or doesn't fit)
legacy design goals and in particular how
it alters legacy operations. For places where
this square peg gets trimmed of by driving it
into a round hole, let us be sure that the
return on investment is sound.
For all the renting of garments and crying
out in the darkness over potential component
failures, battery contactors have been VERY
low on the pecking order for 70+ years. In
recent years, modifications to architecture
(dual feed e-bus) have pushed those concerns
still lower.
So let's play like we're on a product improvement
team for a TC light plane manufacturer where
battery contactor failures are down around
93rd place on the field failures reports.
What is the return on investment for changing
grey-haired ol' Dobbin out for a frisky young
Pinto?
For airplanes with limited power generating
capacity (Rotax/Jabiru machines and airplanes with
SD-8 main alternator), the no-power maintenance
of a closed condition is a definite plus.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Battery disconnect switch |
On 2/11/2011 3:18 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 04:05 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote:
>> Bob do you normally run your starter through this contactor?
>
> Sure. It's been done in a couple hundred thousand
> airplanes for 70 years.
>
> This contactor doesn't have to SWITCH starter current,
> only CARRY it. Not a big deal
>
>
> Bob . . .
I know that's conventional wisdom. But isn't it also conventional wisdom
that one reason starter current is routed through the main contactor is
so that in the event of a stuck starter contactor, the starter can be
disabled using the main contactor? Is the logic that the main contactor
only has to do it *once*?
Charlie
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
>They display angle of attack on the left side of the screen derived
>from, I think, AHARS data, not from unheated pin holes in the wing.
>
>Unfortunately, the GRT web site currently does not explain, or even
>mention this new feature. I've just brought this to the attention of
>Carlos Fernandez at GRT and he promised to update the web site.
How does it matter where and how some AOA value is
measured or synthesized once the wing is iced?
I was once enamored of the delta-p AOA sensor
designs. There have been a number of articles
published on the technique. I've posted a collection
of my archived articles at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Angle_of_Attack/
There was an article in a Sport Aviation issue in
2005 for a DIY AOA sensor/display package. Anyone
got a copy in their library? I'd sure like to
read a copy.
The common thread that runs through these articles
is an absence of discussion as to when the readings
so carefully calibrated and displayed are not
to be trusted.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers AND Vertical Power |
Crimper
There's a bit of confusion evident in the replies so far:
The "expensive one" that you rent for $10 a month or buy for $300 is NOT
to crimp D-sub pins, standard or high density. It is to crimp Molex
MX-150 pins which are used on the Vertical Power units. All of the post
previously apply to D-subs. The crimper from Vertical power is totally
different and as far as I can figure out it is the only one you can use.
I've priced them elsewhere and found that $300 from Vertical Power is a
bargain. You're going to need at least two crimpers, one for the VP-X
power plugs and one for D-subs.
Hope this answers you original question.
John Grosse
MLWynn@aol.com wrote:
> On the Vertical Power web site (am an installing a VP-X system) they
> say to only use the high priced crimper. They will rent you one for
> $10 a month or sell in to $300. Steinair has a high priced Daniels
> Crimper
> http://steinair.com/images/store/afm8.jpg
> Which they describe as good for regular and high density pins.
> So, my basic questions are:
> 1. what is the difference between standard machined sub-D pins and
> high density pins?
> 2. Am I okay with the RCT-3 crimper or should I rent or buy an
> expensive one?
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Battery disconnect switch |
>> This contactor doesn't have to SWITCH starter current,
>> only CARRY it. Not a big deal
>I know that's conventional wisdom. But isn't it also conventional
>wisdom that one reason starter current is routed through the main
>contactor is so that in the event of a stuck starter contactor, the
>starter can be disabled using the main contactor?
Yes . . .
>Is the logic that the main contactor only has to do it *once*?
. . . or never. I've never experienced a
stuck starter contactor. I've only been aware of
a few incidents where B&C customers suffered
the event without benefit of back up for killing
power to the starter. Neither even destroyed the
starter but one really melted the battery box
case.
Remember that contactor service life predictions
are based upon switching certain kinds of loads
usually in a laboratory environment. Hence the
wide variation in 'ratings' for a switch or contactor
that control incandescent lamps, DC motors, windshield
de-ice heaters, etc. But in no case do we see switches
or contactors offered with less than THOUSANDS of
cycles at their various 'rated' loads.
So the notion that a 70A rated contactor (70
series RPM/Stancor/White-Rogers) is in mortal
danger for having interrupted a 200A stuck
starter once, twice or even a few dozen times
is not supported by experience or physics.
Having said that, there IS a situation where
an el-cheepo contactor is at much greater risk
for opening a out-of-ratings load. Figure Z-24
proposes controlling the b-lead of a runaway
alternator. If the voltage rises fast enough
during contact spreading, there is a risk
of sustained arcing between the fully spread
contacts. This is one case where the contactor
might experience a one-time event that leads
to it's destruction. But better it's a $25 contactor
than more valuable/useful system components.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers AND Vertical Power |
Crimper
>You're going to need at least two crimpers, one for the VP-X power
>plugs and one for D-subs.
>Hope this answers you original question.
>
>John Grosse
Thanks John, I missed that point too. Steinar offers
the Daniels or 4-quad crimper and an array of positioners
for pins of interest for sale to the OBAM aircraft community.
Emacs!
---------------------------------------------------------
The VP tools are a finely tuned, ratcheted operated die set
to close the open barrel, sheet metal pins
----------------------------------------------------------
Emacs!
Thanks for raising that flag!
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
Interestinb, but production units are out there.
Lets not ignore what Elbie said about the AOA in icing contitions.
For sure he is the guru on these devices for all kinds of airplanes
http://www.riteangle.com/
PaulW
========
At 06:55 AM 2/12/2011, you wrote:
><nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>
>>They display angle of attack on the left side of the screen derived
>>from, I think, AHARS data, not from unheated pin holes in the wing.
>>
>>Unfortunately, the GRT web site currently does not explain, or even
>>mention this new feature. I've just brought this to the attention
>>of Carlos Fernandez at GRT and he promised to update the web site.
>
> How does it matter where and how some AOA value is
> measured or synthesized once the wing is iced?
>
> I was once enamored of the delta-p AOA sensor
> designs. There have been a number of articles
> published on the technique. I've posted a collection
> of my archived articles at:
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Angle_of_Attack/
>
> There was an article in a Sport Aviation issue in
> 2005 for a DIY AOA sensor/display package. Anyone
> got a copy in their library? I'd sure like to
> read a copy.
>
> The common thread that runs through these articles
> is an absence of discussion as to when the readings
> so carefully calibrated and displayed are not
> to be trusted.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers |
I recall the wires on the Ray Allen trim servos to be (frustratingly)
smaller than 22AWG. Doubling them over worked easily and well in the
standard pins as I recall. The rule of thumb here may be, "if you can
double the conductor over and easily insert it into the barrel, then do
it to get the best crimp"
It was after that experience that I realized how nice and versatile the
D-Sub pins and plugs were. As an old RC modeler, I had originally
attempted to used Deans plugs for the trim servos. They are high
quality, solder-based, light weight compact multi-pin connectors that
have been used extensively in RC.
http://bit.ly/fwl8os
Upon reflection, the Deans plugs rely on good soldering skills, have no
support, and are otherwise bad solutions for our stuff.
>
> There is an IDEAL crimp for all wire/pin
> combinations. I think I found that 22AWG
> wires in HD pins were minimally installed
> with the Eclipse tool. Smaller wires would
> have to be doubled over in the pins to
> provide enough 'meat' to achieve the
> gas-tight condition when the tool closed.
> But that was a lot of years ago and I'd
> have to repeat the experiment to confirm.
>
> In any case, the Eclipse tool is just fine
> for the standard density pins once it's
> been checked and corrected as necessary
> for positioning of the pin.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Soldered D-sub machined pins |
Putting this out there in case I'm overlooking an issue
For the few D-sub machined pins that I've needed to install, I have soldered 22
awg to them and put some heatshrink over the top of the pin and the wire insulation.
Still fits into the hole of the plug.
I know that this makes a less flexible connection than a crimp, but with the heatshrink
over the pin and wire in addition to the backshell clamping the wire
bundle, I think that vibration isolation has been properly addressed.
What say you more experienced electronic folk?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330771#330771
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| Subject: | Honeywell Rocker lamp wiring |
In wiring my HW rocker lamps, I'm pulling power off of the load side of the switch
so that the lamp only lights when the switch is on. I'm daisy chaining the
ground legs
I got a Perihelion dimmer to control brightness and plan to run the ground leg
of the lamps into the power pin of the trim pot and run the variable output to
ground.
Is there faulty logic in this plan?
How are others doing HW lamp control/wiring and why?
Thanks,
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330773#330773
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| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
At 11:57 AM 2/12/2011, you wrote:
>
>Interestinb, but production units are out there.
Yup, lots of them . . .
>Lets not ignore what Elbie said about the AOA in icing contitions.
>For sure he is the guru on these devices for all kinds of airplanes
But what do YOU understand and are willing to pass
along to the less informed as to the value of
and AOA sensor and display system? What statements
have been made by myself or anyone else that you
find in error? Is it your understanding that Elbie
claims that the "sweet spot" on his or any other
AOA display is golden under all challenges that
a pilot might face for comfortable arrival with
the earth?
Bob . . .
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| Subject: | ALTRAK Dimmer Circuit |
Im installing a dimmer circuit for an Altrak module per the manual (see attachment).
The manual calls for a 6.8k Ohm resistor between the lamp and J1, PIN 1.
I was unable to find a 6.8k Ohm resistor locally, so on the advice of a Trutrak
tech I used a 5k Ohm resistor instead.
The dimmer Im using (http://www.periheliondesign.com/egpavr.htm) utilizes an LM317T Integrated Circuit voltage regulator. I have several other instrument lights connected to this device and they all operate properly. As currently wired, the Altrak lamp does not dim until I reach the very end of the control movement on the dimmer, when all the other lamps connected to it are already off. The Altrak lamp goes from full on to full off in the last 5% (approx) of the dimmers control movement.
It seems I should be able to add another resistor between the dimmer and the 470
Ohm resistor already installed, but Im not sure what range to use. Any advice
would be appreciated!
--------
Mark Sletten
Legacy FG N828LM
http://www.legacyfgbuilder.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330782#330782
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/altrakdimmer_163.jpg
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Hi Bob,
I designed a door-throttle warning system for my RV-10 that was heavily
influenced by the Long-EZ canopy-throttle-gear warning system. It has a
warning horn that goes off if the throttle is wide open and the door
pins are not in the correct position. My problem is my Bose headsets
are very good at canceling the horn noise. Is there a simple way to
make a device to add an obnoxious tone through the audio panel? A
couple of inputs to the device would also take care of the stall warning
horn.
Thanks,
Sheldon Olesen
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Honeywell Rocker lamp wiring |
At 12:47 PM 2/12/2011, you wrote:
>
>In wiring my HW rocker lamps, I'm pulling power off of the load side
>of the switch so that the lamp only lights when the switch is on.
>I'm daisy chaining the ground legs
>
>I got a Perihelion dimmer to control brightness and plan to run the
>ground leg of the lamps into the power pin of the trim pot and run
>the variable output to ground.
>
>Is there faulty logic in this plan?
Only if the device was not designed to include
this mode of operation. Suggest you contact
the guy who designed and builds the product.
My best guess is that it will not function
as you wish with the connection proposed.
A ground side dimmer is a different breed of
cat. If you want build one, I can sketch it
out.
Bob . . .
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Soldered D-sub machined pins |
At 12:36 PM 2/12/2011, you wrote:
>
>Putting this out there in case I'm overlooking an issue
>
>For the few D-sub machined pins that I've needed to install, I have
>soldered 22 awg to them and put some heatshrink over the top of the
>pin and the wire insulation. Still fits into the hole of the plug.
>
>I know that this makes a less flexible connection than a crimp,
Crimps and solder are for all practical
purposes interchangeable . . .
>but with the heatshrink over the pin and wire in addition to the
>backshell clamping the wire bundle, I think that vibration isolation
>has been properly addressed.
>
>What say you more experienced electronic folk?
I've soldered many a machined pin without
regard or concern for extra-ordinary vibration
isolation. Reduction of stress due to vibration
comes from bundle support in the D-sub hood.
Bob . . .
Message 25
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Sheldon,
Here are a couple tone generators. I'm sure that there are more. Then just
route to your intercom.
http://www.vx-aviation.com/page_2.html#AL-1A_more
http://www.gretzaero.com/Toneboard.html
bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sheldon
Olesen
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 11:54 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Warning tone
Hi Bob,
I designed a door-throttle warning system for my RV-10 that was heavily
influenced by the Long-EZ canopy-throttle-gear warning system. It has a
warning horn that goes off if the throttle is wide open and the door pins
are not in the correct position. My problem is my Bose headsets are very
good at canceling the horn noise. Is there a simple way to make a device to
add an obnoxious tone through the audio panel? A couple of inputs to the
device would also take care of the stall warning horn.
Thanks,
Sheldon Olesen
Message 26
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| Subject: | Machine Pin sub-D crimpers |
That is pretty much correct. We do the same modifications to the tool that
Bob describes (if someone doesn't they just aren't quite right.as far as I'm
aware we are the only 2 who do that). Anyway, this crimpers can actually be
used for HD pins but you need to manually make sure the pin is positioned
properly. We don't say they are for HD pins because out of the box they are
not, and one wouldn't want to try and use them for production type work. We
could probably make a new center pin for them but if you're careful you can
indeed use them for HD pins by just visually making sure they pin is
positioned properly or make a new pin for the crimper.
Anyway, that's the deal..hope that helps.
Cheers,
Stein
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jared
Yates
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers
If I understand correctly, this is great news. I have this crimper:
http://steinair.com/images/store/SAT004.jpg
but was just scratching my head figuring out how I was going to handle what
appear to be HD pins on my GNS430 backplate. Do I understand correctly that
with careful depth positioning, I should be able to use the above tool to
crimp a few high density pins too? Stein explicitly says that the above
tool is not for HD pins, which I accepted as truth without any
investigation.
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
At 08:40 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote:
FWIW, I just posted my experience with a low cost crimper on my log:
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=MauleDriver
<http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&cat
egory=6577> &project=224&category=6577
Though I can't justify buying a $300 crimper for the project now, you can
pay a price for going cheaper unless you are careful. The D-Sub wire/pin
connection is really easy, fast, clean and seems reliable but it can be
screwed up by a defective tool. I'm happy with my repaired cheap crimper at
this point.
Bob, thanks again for helping me get to the bottom of this one last year.
Sure. I'd forgotten about that conversation.
B&C had been doing the same checks and modifications
to the RTC-3 tools as described in this folder
of my website:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/
I modified all the crimpers I was selling and marked
the tools as AEC Modified. But Bill reminded me that
the cognizant purchaser of this tool will check for
the necessary modification.
Bob . . .
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
If you are an EAA member you can see ALL back issues of Sport Aviation
on http://www.oshkosh365.org
If that doesn't do it for you I do have the 2005 issues but I would have
to see what issue it was in. Do you remember what month?
Dick Tasker
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> There was an article in a Sport Aviation issue in
> 2005 for a DIY AOA sensor/display package. Anyone
> got a copy in their library? I'd sure like to
> read a copy.
--
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that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced.
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| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
I do noy have his message, but it went like any chance of icing
forget about the aoa As the readings will be bad..
PaulW
=
At 09:27 AM 2/12/2011, you wrote:
><nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>At 11:57 AM 2/12/2011, you wrote:
>>
>>Interestinb, but production units are out there.
>
> Yup, lots of them . . .
>
>>Lets not ignore what Elbie said about the AOA in icing contitions.
>>For sure he is the guru on these devices for all kinds of airplanes
>
> But what do YOU understand and are willing to pass
> along to the less informed as to the value of
> and AOA sensor and display system? What statements
> have been made by myself or anyone else that you
> find in error? Is it your understanding that Elbie
> claims that the "sweet spot" on his or any other
> AOA display is golden under all challenges that
> a pilot might face for comfortable arrival with
> the earth?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Honeywell Rocker lamp wiring |
> A ground side dimmer is a different breed of
> cat. If you want build one, I can sketch it
> out.
Bob,
So glad to see that you've finally run out of things to do and are spending your
days whittling while waiting to solve my hare-brained ideas :)
If you can find the time, I'd appreciate your sketch, as I can't see how to use
the Perehelion dimmer to do what I want, if it won't dim through the ground side.
Noodling...
If I use the dimmer as intended and hook the variable output to the lamp, with
a parallel jumper from the load side of the switch to the lamp, the lamp would
be governed by the dimmer when the switch was off. The lamp would brighten to
full when the switch was on, giving me the differentiation of OFF/ON that I seek,
but would the increased voltage cause a problem back feeding dimmer? Maybe
a diode on the dimmer output would prevent that?
Probably a question for Eric.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330810#330810
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| Subject: | Re: Battery disconnect switch |
The device is very noisy (86db) so you'd probably want to mount it
somewhere where the noise is not bothersome.
Stan Sutterfield
In a message dated 2/12/2011 3:09:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list@matronics.com writes:
... a quick glance at the fact sheet indicates that a non-latching version
is also available...hmmmm... so why do we (I) want one?
1. includes coil spike-suppression diodes
2. looks cool ;)
3. Price is not bad
It's only a little more expensive than the "standard" can-shaped solenoids
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/masterrelay.php.
Mounting will be different.
If we use the latching capability, does is make circuitry simpler, more
reliable, better, stronger, faster, (will it help prevent icing? - sorry,
couldn't resist ;)
I'm w/ Bob, definitely needs more noodling..
-Jeff
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| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
<< How does it matter where and how some AOA value is measured or
synthesized once the wing is iced? >>
The Dynon AOA sensor is a single heated probe with two holes which replaces
the standard pitot sensor. It has temperature control so you just leave it
on all the time. Thus is it relatively immune to icing. This means I will
have one less distracter when I follow Bob's (and others) great advice to
get the heck out of wherever I am if ice is encountered.
Tom Kuffel
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
While the AOA is relatively immune to icing, and it's output is accurate
for your clean wings, it doesn't have any way to know the wings are iced
up or how to take into consideration the degradation in performance when
the wings have ice on them. Therefore, if you pay attention to it's
readings you could end up stalling.
That is what the original poster was referring to. Even though the AOA
is working perfectly, it is giving you false information.
Dick Tasker
The Kuffels wrote:
> <kuffel@cyberport.net>
>
> << How does it matter where and how some AOA value is measured or
> synthesized once the wing is iced? >>
>
> The Dynon AOA sensor is a single heated probe with two holes which
> replaces the standard pitot sensor. It has temperature control so you
> just leave it on all the time. Thus is it relatively immune to
> icing. This means I will have one less distracter when I follow Bob's
> (and others) great advice to get the heck out of wherever I am if ice
> is encountered.
>
>
> Tom Kuffel
>
>
--
Please Note:
No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however,
that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced.
--
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| Subject: | Re: Honeywell Rocker lamp wiring |
I just posted some pics of my installation here:
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=5253
My thinking is that I want the switches to be lit and dimmable in low
light/night. So the switch lighting is wired completely independent
from any switch function. The switches themselves are very visible in
day light and their position clearly indicated off/or or whatever.
It does take a fair amount of wiring just for the lighting. I too used
1 of 3 Perihelion dimmers to control the switches. You can see in the
pics how I used a single D-Sub connector as a power and ground bus for
all the lights, a design I copied or adapted from one of Bob's notes.
I can't speak to the ground side dimming but I'm not sure why you'd want
to try to tie the lighting to switch function. These particular
switches indicate function very elegantly independent from the back
lighting. I did use a related set of 6 Honeywell square backlit
indicators for the usual suspects plus door pin warning. Nice aesthetic
match with the rockers.
Sourcing the rockers was interesting. Aerotronics product mall is a
good place to start but getting the right switch for autopilot switching
and the flap switch was a bit trickier.
http://www.avionicsmall.com/
BTW, cutting square holes with a square file is surprisingly easy, even
in thick panel stock.
I like 'em so far. Can't wait to fly with them.
Bill "excited by the warm weather so painting can be completed" Watson
On 2/12/2011 12:47 PM, jonlaury wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "jonlaury"<jonlaury@impulse.net>
>
> In wiring my HW rocker lamps, I'm pulling power off of the load side of the switch
so that the lamp only lights when the switch is on. I'm daisy chaining the
ground legs
>
> I got a Perihelion dimmer to control brightness and plan to run the ground leg
of the lamps into the power pin of the trim pot and run the variable output
to ground.
>
> Is there faulty logic in this plan?
>
> How are others doing HW lamp control/wiring and why?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Open squelch |
What firmware on the A210?
I ask because I just had mine updated to 1.53 and ever since I have had squelch
issues. I used to run mine at 3 and now even at 10 I have problems with open
squelch all the time....
I think maybe ICom broke something with this revision...
To get the firmware #, hold in the freq swap button while turning on the power..
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330834#330834
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| Subject: | Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers AND Vertical Power |
Crimper
Thanks, John. I totally missed that one.
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Wiring
San Ramon, CA
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 2/12/2011 8:29:13 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
grosseair@comcast.net writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Grosse
<grosseair@comcast.net>
There's a bit of confusion evident in the replies so far:
The "expensive one" that you rent for $10 a month or buy for $300 is NOT
to crimp D-sub pins, standard or high density. It is to crimp Molex
MX-150 pins which are used on the Vertical Power units. All of the post
previously apply to D-subs. The crimper from Vertical power is totally
different and as far as I can figure out it is the only one you can use.
I've priced them elsewhere and found that $300 from Vertical Power is a
bargain. You're going to need at least two crimpers, one for the VP-X
power plugs and one for D-subs.
Hope this answers you original question.
John Grosse
MLWynn@aol.com wrote:
> On the Vertical Power web site (am an installing a VP-X system) they
> say to only use the high priced crimper. They will rent you one for
> $10 a month or sell in to $300. Steinair has a high priced Daniels
> Crimper
> http://steinair.com/images/store/afm8.jpg
> Which they describe as good for regular and high density pins.
> So, my basic questions are:
> 1. what is the difference between standard machined sub-D pins and
> high density pins?
> 2. Am I okay with the RCT-3 crimper or should I rent or buy an
> expensive one?
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers |
Thanks to everyone who commented on this. I am obviously a wiring
neophyte but have learned a great deal about pins, crimpers and adjustmen
ts. It's
what makes this list so valuable.
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Wiring
San Ramon, CA
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 2/12/2011 12:35:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
stein@steinair.com writes:
That is pretty much correct. We do the same modifications to the tool tha
t
Bob describes (if someone doesn=99t they just aren=99t quite
rightas far as I
=99m aware we are the only 2 who do that). Anyway, this crimpers
can
actually be used for HD pins but you need to manually make sure the pin
is
positioned properly. We don=99t say they are for HD pins because ou
t of the box
they are not, and one wouldn=99t want to try and use them for produ
ction type
work. We could probably make a new center pin for them but if you
=99re careful
you can indeed use them for HD pins by just visually making sure they pin
is positioned properly or make a new pin for the crimper.
Anyway, that=99s the deal.hope that helps.
Cheers,
Stein
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jared
Yates
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers
If I understand correctly, this is great news. I have this crimper:
_http://steinair.com/images/store/SAT004.jpg_
(http://steinair.com/images/store/SAT004.jpg)
but was just scratching my head figuring out how I was going to handle
what appear to be HD pins on my GNS430 backplate. Do I understand correc
tly
that with careful depth positioning, I should be able to use the above to
ol
to crimp a few high density pins too? Stein explicitly says that the abo
ve
tool is not for HD pins, which I accepted as truth without any
investigation.
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<_nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com_ (mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com) >
wrote:
At 08:40 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote:
FWIW, I just posted my experience with a low cost crimper on my log:
_http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=MauleDriver&project=2
24&cat
egory=6577_
(http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=MauleDriver&project=2
24&category=6577)
Though I can't justify buying a $300 crimper for the project now, you can
pay a price for going cheaper unless you are careful. The D-Sub wire/pin
connection is really easy, fast, clean and seems reliable but it can be
screwed up by a defective tool. I'm happy with my repaired cheap crimper
at
this point.
Bob, thanks again for helping me get to the bottom of this one last year.
Sure. I'd forgotten about that conversation.
B&C had been doing the same checks and modifications
to the RTC-3 tools as described in this folder
of my website:
_http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/_
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/)
I modified all the crimpers I was selling and marked
the tools as AEC Modified. But Bill reminded me that
the cognizant purchaser of this tool will check for
the necessary modification.
Bob . . .
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-Lis
t
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
========================
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Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Battery disconnect switch |
Always mount disconnect switches as close to the battery as possible.
Cessna actually mounts theirs on the battery box (C-180) They also mount
the relay for ground power on the box.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Speedy11@aol.com
Sent: February 12, 2011 9:34 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery disconnect switch
The device is very noisy (86db) so you'd probably want to mount it somewhere
where the noise is not bothersome.
Stan Sutterfield
In a message dated 2/12/2011 3:09:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list@matronics.com writes:
... a quick glance at the fact sheet indicates that a non-latching version
is also available...hmmmm... so why do we (I) want one?
1. includes coil spike-suppression diodes
2. looks cool ;)
3. Price is not bad
It's only a little more expensive than the "standard" can-shaped solenoids
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/masterrelay.php.
Mounting will be different.
If we use the latching capability, does is make circuitry simpler, more
reliable, better, stronger, faster, (will it help prevent icing? - sorry,
couldn't resist ;)
I'm w/ Bob, definitely needs more noodling..
-Jeff
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Open squelch |
On 2/12/2011 6:50 PM, Brantel wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brantel"<bchesteen@hughes.net>
>
> What firmware on the A210?
>
> I ask because I just had mine updated to 1.53 and ever since I have had squelch
issues. I used to run mine at 3 and now even at 10 I have problems with open
squelch all the time....
>
> I think maybe ICom broke something with this revision...
>
> To get the firmware #, hold in the freq swap button while turning on the power..
>
>
> I must have missed the rest of this thread, but I also have an A210 with squelch
issues. I posted re: this a few weeks ago. If my GRT equipment is on I have
to set the Icom at 10. I'm going to wait until it is all installed in the aircraft
to see if there is really a problem or not. Meanwhile I just sent it in
for the latest firmware upgrade. Evidently that may have some impact on the
squelch from what I'm hearing.
Tim
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
Hi Dick,
<< That is what the original poster was referring to. Even though the AOA
is working perfectly, it is giving you false information. >>
And what I'm referring to is if I take avoidance action, as I should, the
instant ice is encountered I don't have to worry about my Dynon giving me
"false information". It will still tell me accurately if my angle of attack
is well above stall with clean wings. While I don't know what my stall
margin actually is at the moment I'm certainly better off than with no or
incorrect AOA information.
In other words, as compared to some other AOA systems the Dynon is giving me
true information. My job is to apply judgement to take actions which
prevent the stall margin at normal cruise AOA from narrowing to zero. And I
get whatever benefit/insurance, however minor, of a heated pitot.
Tom Kuffel
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers |
Hi Group
I modified my Steinair D-sub crimper (and Jans the same time) by making new pins
and moving them to the other side of the spring.
See pics DSCN5312 thru 16:
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=30957
I believe the tool with the modified ratchet is probably for High Density pins,
but with the ratchet ground off the last two clicks works well for D-subs as
well. Anyway if you have a tool that is over-crimping D-sub machined pins, all
hope is not lost
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330857#330857
Message 41
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| Subject: | solid state relays |
Hi Bob
What is your opinion of these relays as replacements for the mechanical relays
we have been using?
Jim Robinson
www.newark.com/crydom+relay
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Battery disconnect switch |
Stan,
Not sure what you mean by noisy. Can you be more specific?
1. Is the noise continuous?
2. Is this device any noisier than the traditional solenoid?
3. Have you done some kind of testing or do you have you worked w/ this
device?
TIA,
-Jeff
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Speedy11@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 17:04
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery disconnect switch
The device is very noisy (86db) so you'd probably want to mount it somewhere
where the noise is not bothersome.
Stan Sutterfield
In a message dated 2/12/2011 3:09:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list@matronics.com writes:
... a quick glance at the fact sheet indicates that a non-latching version
is also available...hmmmm... so why do we (I) want one?
1. includes coil spike-suppression diodes
2. looks cool ;)
3. Price is not bad
It's only a little more expensive than the "standard" can-shaped solenoids
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/masterrelay.php.
Mounting will be different.
If we use the latching capability, does is make circuitry simpler, more
reliable, better, stronger, faster, (will it help prevent icing? - sorry,
couldn't resist ;)
I'm w/ Bob, definitely needs more noodling..
-Jeff
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