Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:03 AM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 06:08 AM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Noel Loveys)
3. 06:10 AM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:13 AM - Re: Re: 2nd radio (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 06:35 AM - Low Ohms Adapters (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 06:52 AM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Etienne Phillips)
8. 07:51 AM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Bob McCallum)
9. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 12:02 PM - Shielded wire use with "wiring hubs" (CardinalNSB@aol.com)
12. 12:19 PM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Noel Loveys)
13. 12:40 PM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Noel Loveys)
14. 01:01 PM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Noel Loveys)
15. 02:19 PM - Re: Permanent Magnet Alternators - Over Voltage Protection (markcs)
16. 02:55 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 02/14/11 (EMAproducts@aol.com)
17. 04:31 PM - Re: Shielded wire use with "wiring hubs" (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 04:33 PM - Re: AOA indicator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 08:36 PM - Re: No click when pushing PTT (N777TY)
20. 10:58 PM - New Stereo Audio Mixer Products (Vern Little)
21. 11:14 PM - Re: AOA (Dean Van Winkle)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
At 08:58 PM 2/14/2011, you wrote:
>
>Yes, the radio works fine otherwise (as in, it transmits
>fine). COM1 produces the click (hence I can turn on the runway
>lights). COM2 doesn't do that. It's not audible, and consequently
>lights don't come on..
>
>I can hear the click on COM1 (and as a result, lights can be turned
>on, for example)..
When you say 'transmits fine' do I presume that
you can communicate with some distant facility?
If on the ground, can you talk to say a distant
aircraft and the pilot reports strong signal on
either radio?
Suggest you get a rough reading on power output.
You can do this with the most rudimentary of
SWR meters if you don't have access to a real
wattmeter. Use the meter to check the #1 system
and set the device for a full scale, forward
reading on #1 then move it to #2 without changing
the calibration.
Talking to another airplane in the hangar or
to a local hand held might appear to be just
fine when in fact, transmitted power output is
a tiny fraction of what it should be.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
I would expect the first thing to do is to verify your radio is not
transmitting... If you have another radio close by you can test the
transmitter is operating. An old trick we used to do with taxicabs years
ago was to have someone hold a fluorescent tube (tube only completely
unplugged) close to the transmitting antenna and key the mic. If the tube
lights up the transmitter is active. Of course you can also see if you are
putting out any power by inserting an SWR meter in the antenna feed line.
In this case where you are only looking for the presence of power the
cheapest of SWR meters will suffice.
As Bob said, gone are the days when there were mechanical relays happily
chattering open and closed with every transmission.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N777TY
Sent: February 14, 2011 9:33 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
Yes, I'm expecting a click.. Considering that the other one which is same
technology (ie, not a case of old vs. new) I'd think the expectation is
reasonable :) Don't remember last time I ran into this situation in any
plane ... so what I'm experiencing on COM2 is not typical.. Looking for
ideas what to look at..
--------
RV-7A
N777TY
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331092#331092
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
>I would expect the light control radio to trigger on just the
>carrier, but for troubleshooting purposes you might try synthesizing
>a click verbally while holding the xmit button for each trigger, &
>see if the light control radio would respond to that, assuming that
>it really needs to see audio on the carrier.
>
>I'd also ask the control radio's mfgr about whether it just listens
>for carrier or not.
If the lighting control system needs audio, it would
be a published feature. Some of the early lighting
control systems were jury-rigged onto the facility's
unicom radio. It was a circuit that needed to see
a sweeping frequency tone that pilots were expected
to generate by whistling.
I haven't seen one of those in service in 30 years.
They're all carrier operated now and generally have
their own dedicated receiver.
I would certainly resolve the power output question
first.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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At 12:24 AM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
>Hi Jim
>
>If it is possible to share an aerial, do you want to? It would be a
>single point of failure for both radios... Every time I've has an
>issue with my radio, it's been an antenna problem (about 4 times in
>12 years). Having an independent radio is more useful to me as a
>backup than a convenience, and so would require an independent
>aerial. But that's me!
>
Excellent point. Antenna duplexers for transceivers
are not cheap. Two antennas are certainly the least
expensive and most reliable configuration. You don't
need an audio panel but probably an audio isolation
amplifier as described in the 'Connection's audio
chapter.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z16M.pdf
Bob . . .
Message 5
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Subject: | Low Ohms Adapters |
I was able to finish the batch before I had
to leave M.L. on important matters last Saturday.
Had a Valentine's day appointment with my grandkids
and later my wife!
I've been in Lindsborg the last few days and
will be back in the shop this afternoon. All
low ohms adapters on order will go out first
class mail this afternoon.
I've not finished the official instruction sheet
but there's probably enough info in these photos
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9008/
to noodle out how the critter is used. I'll announce
publication of the official instruction sheet
as soon as it's posted.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
At 08:06 AM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
>
>I would expect the first thing to do is to verify your radio is not
>transmitting... If you have another radio close by you can test the
>transmitter is operating. An old trick we used to do with taxicabs years
>ago was to have someone hold a fluorescent tube (tube only completely
>unplugged) close to the transmitting antenna and key the mic. If the tube
>lights up the transmitter is active.
Yeah, that was the primary reason for keeping the
little NE-2 or NE-51, neon bulbs around.
Emacs!
They were handy for 'sniffing' strong RF either
within a transmitter or out on the antenna. Since
then transmitters have morphed to low-voltage, high-
current architectures. The lamps won't sniff within the
circuitry but will still light up when held in close
proximity to the tip of a 1/4-wave antenna.
Haven't tried it but I suspect it will still be
limited to getting excited at 5 watts or more.
One is looking for an RF field on the order of
75 volts or more to capacitively excite these
lamps into visible activity.
The very first transmitter I built
http://tinyurl.com/4hwa2da
had an NE-2 permanently attached to the hot side
of the tank coil and could be used to tune the
transmitter. Can anyone spot a risk-issue in
this as-published diagram?
Bob . . .
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
I'll have a stab at it - when the switch is open, the chassis sits at line
voltage?
On 15 February 2011 16:49, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
Can anyone spot a risk-issue in
> this as-published diagram?
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
#1 The chassis is directly connected to the line.
#2 the switch is in what is hopefully the ground side of the line.
#3 It's probably old enough that the line plug is not polarized and the cha
ssis may be attached to the "hot" side of the line.
More than one person has been electrocuted with such a layout.
Bob McC
From: nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
At 08:06 AM 2/15/2011=2C you wrote:
>
I would expect the first thing to do is to verify your radio is not
transmitting... If you have another radio close by you can test the
transmitter is operating. An old trick we used to do with taxicabs years
ago was to have someone hold a fluorescent tube (tube only completely
unplugged) close to the transmitting antenna and key the mic. If the tube
lights up the transmitter is active.
Yeah=2C that was the primary reason for keeping the
little NE-2 or NE-51=2C neon bulbs around.
They were handy for 'sniffing' strong RF either
within a transmitter or out on the antenna. Since
then transmitters have morphed to low-voltage=2C high-
current architectures. The lamps won't sniff within the
circuitry but will still light up when held in close
proximity to the tip of a 1/4-wave antenna.
Haven't tried it but I suspect it will still be
limited to getting excited at 5 watts or more.
One is looking for an RF field on the order of
75 volts or more to capacitively excite these
lamps into visible activity.
The very first transmitter I built
http://tinyurl.com/4hwa2da
had an NE-2 permanently attached to the hot side
of the tank coil and could be used to tune the
transmitter. Can anyone spot a risk-issue in
this as-published diagram?
Bob . . .
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fSiilV/jP+u5nU6fP9D/2Q=
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
At 09:16 AM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
>#1 The chassis is directly connected to the line.
>#2 the switch is in what is hopefully the ground side of the line.
>#3 It's probably old enough that the line plug is not polarized and
>the chassis may be attached to the "hot" side of the line.
>
>More than one person has been electrocuted with such a layout.
Yup . . . you're tied for first place.
Bob . . .
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Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
At 09:04 AM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
>I'll have a stab at it - when the switch is open, the chassis sits
>at line voltage?
Right on! I'd built a number of transformer-less
circuits where injudicious wiring and positioning
of switches could put a chassis at above ground
potentials.
Since all ham gear was expected to be well
grounded for reasons of antenna performance,
it made sense to use the SAME ground as the
power return for the device. Make the line-cord
a one-wire lead that was switched. If the
gizmo didn't power up, reverse the plug. But
in no case was the properly grounded system at
risk for presenting a shock hazard.
So called AC/DC radios popular at the time
were always housed in a wood or plastic case.
Quite often, the line-connected 'ground' within
the appliance was floating from the chassis.
When launching a line-powered, transformer-less
DIY project, it was good to understand such
things.
Good eye!
Bob . . .
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Subject: | Shielded wire use with "wiring hubs" |
What is the appropriate way to handle the shield part of "shielded" wire
when wiring using a commercial "hub" or a diy "hub"? For
intercom/aviionics use.
Thanks, Skip
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
I'll take a stab at it.
The crystal and the heater for the tube are both powered by 115VAC.
Considering the potential instability in both the voltage coming from the
wall and possible changes in the frequency of the AC current it may be a bit
edgy.
Noel
Now give us the real reason. Please!
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: February 15, 2011 11:20 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
At 08:06 AM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
I would expect the first thing to do is to verify your radio is not
transmitting... If you have another radio close by you can test the
transmitter is operating. An old trick we used to do with taxicabs years
ago was to have someone hold a fluorescent tube (tube only completely
unplugged) close to the transmitting antenna and key the mic. If the tube
lights up the transmitter is active.
Yeah, that was the primary reason for keeping the
little NE-2 or NE-51, neon bulbs around.
Emacs!
They were handy for 'sniffing' strong RF either
within a transmitter or out on the antenna. Since
then transmitters have morphed to low-voltage, high-
current architectures. The lamps won't sniff within the
circuitry but will still light up when held in close
proximity to the tip of a 1/4-wave antenna.
Haven't tried it but I suspect it will still be
limited to getting excited at 5 watts or more.
One is looking for an RF field on the order of
75 volts or more to capacitively excite these
lamps into visible activity.
The very first transmitter I built
http://tinyurl.com/4hwa2da
had an NE-2 permanently attached to the hot side
of the tank coil and could be used to tune the
transmitter. Can anyone spot a risk-issue in
this as-published diagram?
Bob . . .
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
Certainly a short across the 1 muff cap could cause that.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Etienne
Phillips
Sent: February 15, 2011 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
I'll have a stab at it - when the switch is open, the chassis sits at line
voltage?
On 15 February 2011 16:49, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
Can anyone spot a risk-issue in
this as-published diagram?
Bob . . .
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
Many years ago I had a radio/Amplifier which the chassis could be hot if it
was plugged in that way you would get a terrible AC hum from the speakers...
I always put it down to the shielding on the tubes being hot. Yes I did get
several good roots from that thing until I realized that turning the plug
around removed the AC hum.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
McCallum
Sent: February 15, 2011 11:46 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
#1 The chassis is directly connected to the line.
#2 the switch is in what is hopefully the ground side of the line.
#3 It's probably old enough that the line plug is not polarized and the
chassis may be attached to the "hot" side of the line.
More than one person has been electrocuted with such a layout.
Bob McC
_____
From: nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
At 08:06 AM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
I would expect the first thing to do is to verify your radio is not
transmitting... If you have another radio close by you can test the
transmitter is operating. An old trick we used to do with taxicabs years
ago was to have someone hold a fluorescent tube (tube only completely
unplugged) close to the transmitting antenna and key the mic. If the tube
lights up the transmitter is active.
Yeah, that was the primary reason for keeping the
little NE-2 or NE-51, neon bulbs around.
Emacs!
They were handy for 'sniffing' strong RF either
within a transmitter or out on the antenna. Since
then transmitters have morphed to low-voltage, high-
current architectures. The lamps won't sniff within the
circuitry but will still light up when held in close
proximity to the tip of a 1/4-wave antenna.
Haven't tried it but I suspect it will still be
limited to getting excited at 5 watts or more.
One is looking for an RF field on the order of
75 volts or more to capacitively excite these
lamps into visible activity.
The very first transmitter I built
http://tinyurl.com/4hwa2da
had an NE-2 permanently attached to the hot side
of the tank coil and could be used to tune the
transmitter. Can anyone spot a risk-issue in
this as-published diagram?
Bob . . .
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Permanent Magnet Alternators - Over Voltage Protection |
Bob,
Many thanks for your reply. Your time is always much appreciated.
Regards
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331164#331164
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 02/14/11 |
Bob,
Excellent comments on the list
I was a designated examiner & PPE for about 7 years on the CE 500/550
series and along with the FAA used the AOA to see if the applicant had used
the "bug card" correctly in figuring his approach speeds. If I recall
correctly was 1 Kt per mark on the AOA scale. Tell the appplicant it looked
as
if he was in error on his approach speeds by a couple knots he would look
at you like you were crazy, then refigure and guess what, we were exactly
correct, told the applicant to use equipment he had in his plane! Navy
pilots lived by AOA, they are among my best customers.
I had a pitot line freeze on a D-50 T-Bon in the late 60's seems a
mechanic had bent it to make it easier to attach an engine mount, however just
outside the cowling it had made a low spot. I lost all airspeed at about
11,000 in IMC, declared an emergency and descended into Prescott, AZ finally
getting airspeed back in final turn in holding pattern prior to approach at
0200 AM Been there done that.
In a message dated 2/15/2011 12:00:48 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list@matronics.com writes:
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Shielded wire use with "wiring hubs" |
At 01:56 PM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
>What is the appropriate way to handle the shield part of "shielded"
>wire when wiring using a commercial "hub" or a diy "hub"? For
>intercom/aviionics use.
>
>Thanks, Skip
Instructions for installation/fabrication should
speak to at least one pin in every connector reserved
for the purpose of connecting to shield grounds.
All shields in a bundle can be daisy-chained such
that the shields can be handled on a single wire
in one pin of the plug.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/pigtail/pigtail.html
Bob . . .
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
At 03:39 PM 2/12/2011, you wrote:
><retasker@optonline.net>
>
>If you are an EAA member you can see ALL back issues of Sport
>Aviation on http://www.oshkosh365.org
>
>If that doesn't do it for you I do have the 2005 issues but I would
>have to see what issue it was in. Do you remember what month?
Sorry, no. It was mentioned on another forum.
Had an EAA membership for 20+ years but gave it
up about 10 years ago. So if anyone could find
and capture the article, I'd sure appreciate it.
Bob . . .
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Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
Y'all lost me there :)
Anyways, back to square one. The radio works just fine... it's been installed
for a little over 2 years and never had issues communicating with anyone (even
distant facilities). I acquired the plane last summer and this click was never
there.. so I can only assume it was like this from day one.. but have no way
of confirming this.
For clarification -- this is a certified plane that's been flying for a long time..
not a homebuilt sitting in my garage.. This radio allows me perfectly normal
"5 by 5" communication with anyone on frequency.. there have never been
any issues with clarity nor strength of normal voice transmission.. It just doesn't
click... that's all.
--------
RV-7A
N777TY
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331193#331193
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Subject: | New Stereo Audio Mixer Products |
Discussed several times over the years on Aeroelectric, audio mixers
have matured. In addition to mono audio mixer/audio panel devices and
stereo headphone adapters available for some time, Vx Aviation has
released a pair of stereo audio mixers in our unique form factor-- the
D-sub backshell.
Although we avoid posting too much commercial material to the list, I
hope Bob appreciates what we've done here, because it's relevant to what
we have debated over the years.
Thanks, Vern Little
Summary of Announcement:
VICTORIA, BC---February 16, 2011---Vx Aviation today announced the
introduction of the first stereo audio mixers designed specifically for
experimental aircraft applications. The AMX-4A and AMX-4B dramatically
simplify and lower the cost of audio system installation in both
existing
and new aircraft. Both units are virtually pin-compatible with the
industry-leading AMX-2A monophonic 10 channel miniature audio mixer,
introduced in 2008.
Both the AMX-4A and AMX-4B units provide five independent stereo input
channels. Three channels are fixed-level, designed to connect to audio
sources that have their own volume controls, such as EFIS systems and XM
radios. Two of the channels have screwdriver adjustable audio levels,
providing the flexibility required when connecting to fixed level
sources.
Monophonic sources are supported by connecting together the left and
right
inputs of any input channel.
The AMX-4A low output version works seamlessly with PS Engineering
intercoms, providing the critical 2 volt peak-to-peak voltage limiting
required that prevents damage to the PS Engineering products. The AMX-4B
high output version has no such limiting and provides up to 12 volts
peak-to-peak drive capability and a gain of 15 decibels, making it
compatible with intercoms that require input amplification or for
directly
driving headphones.
<for more information, including photographs and drawings, please see
attached document>
For further inquiries, please contact me. Thank-you.
Vern Little
Vx Aviation
www.vx-aviation.com
Message 21
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Bob
I just noticed your comments about loss of IAS on both sides of the
Beechjet. l attended 2 of your Seminars and I know we talked about both
having worked for Cessna. When I left Cessna as a Flight Test Engineer
in 1968, I went to work for the Army Aviation Systems Cmd in St Louis as
a Dept of Army Civilian Senior Aeronautical Engineer and was there for
28+ years. Most of my time there was spent with the Army's Fixed Wing
Electronic Intelligence Gathering Aircraft. In the later years I was the
Army Technical Manager for 7 different versions of the RC-12 (Super
Kingair 200), the last 4 versions comprised of 36 aircraft with 1200 SHP
engines and Gross Weights in the 16,000 to 16,500 lb range. In the early
'90s, we took the RC-12N configuration which had the largest antenna
array to Duluth, Mn in January for natural icing tests. The Army test
crew from EAFB had a specially instrumented U-21 to search for icing
conditions and would then call out the RC-12N. I rode with the Army test
crew on flights 2 and 3 as a FTE/ Observer. On flight 2, we were in a
low stratus layer around 3000 ft MSL, 140 KTS, about 45% cruise power.
At 50 minutes we has collected 5 1/2 inches of ice with all of the deice
going, at 90% cruise power for the same air speed and had just lost the
right pitot airspeed. About 3 minutes later we lost the left pitot
airspeed. About 2 minutes later, we climbed out of the low stratus layer
so the U-21 could get photos of the ice buildups. Fortunately the U-21
was able to get a picture of the right pitot which showed that ice had
grown forward on the unheated pitot mast and then curved downward to
block the pitot inlet, at no time actually touching the pitot tube
itself. Before the U-21 could move to the left side, the left mast had
lost enough ice that the left airspeed had come back and a few minutes
later the right airspeed was back. Beech attempted to get some heat in
the mast , but abbreviated tests the following winter showed that it was
insufficient. Bob, I don't know whether the Beechjet used the same
pitot units or a similar design, but that was our findings on the Model
200.
Alden Van Winkle
Slo Build RV-9A
dvanwinkle@royell.org
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: AOA
At 08:03 PM 2/13/2011, you wrote:
My comment on icing and AOA systems ~~If you encounter any type of
icing turn the AOA OFF unless you have full de-icing vane & aircraft.
We haven't even done R&D on a heated vane because of liability. Even
Boeing can't give you hard numbers with icing on wings. Heated vane and
icing on wings is NOT a good deal!
Elbie Mendenhall, EM Aviation, LLC www.riteangle.com
Exactly. The fleet of bizjets at HBC were all
qualified for flight into known ice. Everything
was heated or hammered.
I'll have to call some of my jet-jockey friends
at HBC and inquire as to words in the POH concerning
usefulness and cautions about AOA displays
on the production fleet.
I worked a REALLY strange problem on the Beechjet
some years back were pilots experienced loss of
IAS on BOTH sides of the airplane. Displays always
recovered at lower, warmer altitudes.
This often occurred in relatively clear air.
There was a LOT of brainstorming by a LOT
of grey beards as to the physics behind this
rare but disturbing event.
My task involved cutting a pitot tube open,
peppering it with thermocouples and putting
it back together again so that we could study
not only temperatures at the surfaces to be
de-iced but internally. There was some question
of ice crystals bouncing through the labyrinth
of pressure channels only to melt and re-freeze
inside the pitot tube.
During the fire drill for sniffing out root cause,
somebody asked the question: "How does the existence
of a working AOA display help the pilot who is
temporarily deprived of IAS?" Good question.
The Beechjet had been fitted with AOA indication
since its birth as the Mitusbishi Diamondjet.
But nobody had ever researched and written the
approve procedure for using AOA as an aid to
maneuvering without IAS.
That amendment was quickly added to the POH.
I'm not sure we ever deduced how pitot pressure
was being obstructed. I'll have to ask how that
problem resolved too. But it was interesting
that a perfectly useful display had existed
for so long but was never fully developed as a
component of plan-b, plan-c, etc. Shucks, with
DUAL air data systems, what are the odds?
Bob . . .
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