---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 02/18/11: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:11 AM - Re: Power for Checking Systems Out on the Ground (Allen Fulmer) 2. 07:58 AM - Re: "Starter Engaged" Warning Light Circuit Refresher (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 09:10 AM - Re: Power for Checking Systems Out on the Ground (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 02:00 PM - Re: Power for Checking Systems Out on the Ground (Allen Fulmer) 5. 02:47 PM - Re: "Starter Engaged" Warning Light Circuit Refresher (Richard Girard) 6. 03:06 PM - Re: "Starter Engaged" Warning Light Circuit Refresher (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 03:38 PM - LED question (Noel Loveys) 8. 04:21 PM - Re: LED question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 09:12 PM - Looking for Cool (Digital) Ammeter (Jeff Luckey) 10. 09:53 PM - Corvair wiring (Dale Andee) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:56 AM PST US From: "Allen Fulmer" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Power for Checking Systems Out on the Ground Bob, I there a drawing showing the circuit you describe below? And values/part no. for the power diode and relay? Thanks, Allen Fulmer Do not archive From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 11:07 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Power for Checking Systems Out on the Ground Can I hook the power supply up to the battery + and - terminals and use it as a "battery booster" (or would this toast the battery)? Should I just use the battery and charge it overnight with the BatteryMINDer? Other? Most power supplies are NOT intended to work in conjunction with a battery. The primary difficulty arises when the battery is connected to a powered down power supply. Output monitoring and ov protection in many supplies do not like to be "back fed" from an external power source. My favorite technique uses a hefty switchmode power supply similar to this: http://tinyurl.com/4aoszlf Combine this supply with a power diode (to prevent back feeding) and a relay to emulate the "field control" input on your ship's alternator. The relay controls 120 vac going into the power supply. You can connect this AC mains powered "alternator" in place of the ship's alternator. With the alternator emulator ON, adjust the power supply for a 14.2 volt bus. The ship's load meter (if installed) can be used to monitor loads on the power supply. This will allow you to run the ship's battery in parallel to let it pick up any transient loads that might exceed the ratings of the power supply. I intend to bring up one circuit at a time and I want to measure each circuit's actual power consumption and I'll need to be careful not to overload the power supply. If it's a switchmode supply, it will have built in overload protection. Further, the supply I linked above has a thermostatically controlled fan built in that turns on when the supply is being taxed to rated output. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:58:43 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: "Starter Engaged" Warning Light Circuit Refresher At 10:34 PM 2/17/2011, you wrote: > >Bob N., > >I'm putting a "starter engaged" warning light in my new IFR >panel. I simply hooked the incandescent bulb from my B&C >alternator "low voltage" warning light between a fused wire that >runs from the hot side of the starter contactor and ground. (I now >have the standby B&C alternator and will use its controller's >"standby alternator on" light in lieu of the low voltage light on >the primary alternator controller.) > >But then I ran across a handwritten sketch that I believe you drew >up for this circuit. It has a 470 Ohm - 1 Watt resistor in the wire >between the hot side of the starter contactor and the lamp. It also >shows a 1N4001 protection diode in parallel with the lamp and >ground. It isn't clear from your sketch (and my electrical symbols >knowledge is limited) whether the lamp is incandescent or an LED. This is an incandescent lamp Emacs! This is an Light Emitting Diode Emacs! The resistor used with the LED warning circuit as sketched serves a dual purpose. It protects the wire that runs from starter to lamp by limiting the maximum current that could flow in a faulted wire. At the same time, it SETS the current intended to illuminate the LED. For an incandescent warning light, the resistor is replaced with a fuse and the incandescent lamp is substituted for the LED. No reverse current diode is needed. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:56 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Power for Checking Systems Out on the Ground At 10:03 AM 2/18/2011, you wrote: >Bob, > >Is there a drawing showing the circuit you describe below? And >values/part no. for the power diode and relay? http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Line_Powered_Alternator_Emulator.pdf Power supply http://tinyurl.com/4lqfl8p Diode http://tinyurl.com/4cft9g3 http://tinyurl.com/488ztot http://www.bandc.biz/essentialbusdiode-1.aspx Relay http://www.bandc.biz/spdtsealedrelay12v40a.aspx Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:00:29 PM PST US From: "Allen Fulmer" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Power for Checking Systems Out on the Ground Thanks you Bob. Do not archive From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 10:06 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Power for Checking Systems Out on the Ground At 10:03 AM 2/18/2011, you wrote: Bob, Is there a drawing showing the circuit you describe below? And values/part no. for the power diode and relay? http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Line_Powered_Alternator_Emulator .pdf Power supply http://tinyurl.com/4lqfl8p Diode http://tinyurl.com/4cft9g3 http://tinyurl.com/488ztot http://www.bandc.biz/essentialbusdiode-1.aspx Relay http://www.bandc.biz/spdtsealedrelay12v40a.aspx Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:55 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: "Starter Engaged" Warning Light Circuit Refresher From: Richard Girard Bob N., Is the drawing for this circuit in the Aeroelectric archives? I think I'd like to add it to my very bare bones system. Thanks, Rick On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 8:54 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 10:34 PM 2/17/2011, you wrote: > > > Bob N., > > I'm putting a "starter engaged" warning light in my new IFR panel. I > simply hooked the incandescent bulb from my B&C alternator "low voltage" > warning light between a fused wire that runs from the hot side of the > starter contactor and ground. (I now have the standby B&C alternator and > will use its controller's "standby alternator on" light in lieu of the low > voltage light on the primary alternator controller.) > > But then I ran across a handwritten sketch that I believe you drew up for > this circuit. It has a 470 Ohm - 1 Watt resistor in the wire between the > hot side of the starter contactor and the lamp. It also shows a 1N4001 > protection diode in parallel with the lamp and ground. It isn't clear from > your sketch (and my electrical symbols knowledge is limited) whether the > lamp is incandescent or an LED. > > > This is an incandescent lamp > > [image: Emacs!] > > This is an Light Emitting Diode > > [image: Emacs!] > > The resistor used with the LED warning circuit as > sketched serves a dual purpose. It protects the wire > that runs from starter to lamp by limiting the maximum > current that could flow in a faulted wire. At the same > time, it SETS the current intended to illuminate the > LED. > > For an incandescent warning light, the resistor is > replaced with a fuse and the incandescent lamp is > substituted for the LED. No reverse current diode > is needed. > > > Bob . . . > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:06:28 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: "Starter Engaged" Warning Light Circuit Refresher At 05:43 PM 2/18/2011, you wrote: >Bob N., Is the drawing for this circuit in the Aeroelectric >archives? I think I'd like to add it to my very bare bones system. http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Starter_Engaged_Warning_Lt.pdf >Bob N., > >I'm putting a "starter engaged" warning light in my new IFR >panel. I simply hooked the incandescent bulb from my B&C >alternator "low voltage" warning light between a fused wire that >runs from the hot side of the starter contactor and ground. (I now >have the standby B&C alternator and will use its controller's >"standby alternator on" light in lieu of the low voltage light on >the primary alternator controller.) > >But then I ran across a handwritten sketch that I believe you drew >up for this circuit. It has a 470 Ohm - 1 Watt resistor in the wire >between the hot side of the starter contactor and the lamp. It also >shows a 1N4001 protection diode in parallel with the lamp and >ground. It isn't clear from your sketch (and my electrical symbols >knowledge is limited) whether the lamp is incandescent or an LED. This is an incandescent lamp Emacs! This is an Light Emitting Diode Emacs! The resistor used with the LED warning circuit as sketched serves a dual purpose. It protects the wire that runs from starter to lamp by limiting the maximum current that could flow in a faulted wire. At the same time, it SETS the current intended to illuminate the LED. For an incandescent warning light, the resistor is replaced with a fuse and the incandescent lamp is substituted for the LED. No reverse current diode is needed. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:38:25 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: AeroElectric-List: LED question Bob: is it OK to wire an LED directly (through a resistor in series) to a 14V system? Or should a voltage reduction circuit/device be used. I always though most LEDs were supposed to work on 5V. And 14V would be too much. Noel From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: February 18, 2011 11:25 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: "Starter Engaged" Warning Light Circuit Refresher At 10:34 PM 2/17/2011, you wrote: Bob N., I'm putting a "starter engaged" warning light in my new IFR panel. I simply hooked the incandescent bulb from my B&C alternator "low voltage" warning light between a fused wire that runs from the hot side of the starter contactor and ground. (I now have the standby B&C alternator and will use its controller's "standby alternator on" light in lieu of the low voltage light on the primary alternator controller.) But then I ran across a handwritten sketch that I believe you drew up for this circuit. It has a 470 Ohm - 1 Watt resistor in the wire between the hot side of the starter contactor and the lamp. It also shows a 1N4001 protection diode in parallel with the lamp and ground. It isn't clear from your sketch (and my electrical symbols knowledge is limited) whether the lamp is incandescent or an LED. This is an incandescent lamp Emacs! This is an Light Emitting Diode Emacs! The resistor used with the LED warning circuit as sketched serves a dual purpose. It protects the wire that runs from starter to lamp by limiting the maximum current that could flow in a faulted wire. At the same time, it SETS the current intended to illuminate the LED. For an incandescent warning light, the resistor is replaced with a fuse and the incandescent lamp is substituted for the LED. No reverse current diode is needed. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:38 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LED question At 06:20 PM 2/18/2011, you wrote: >Bob: is it OK to wire an LED directly (through a resistor in series) >to a 14V system? Or should a voltage reduction circuit/device be >used. I always though most LEDs were supposed to work on 5V. And >14V would be too much. LED's are CURRENT driven devices. They do drop 2-3 volts across the device while illuminated (depending on color) but they can be BIASED up to run at ANY voltage greater than 3 volts by selection of the series resistor . . . which is the purpose of the 470 ohm resistor in the sketch. With 9-12v applied to the starter and 2v dropped across the LED leaves 7 to 10 volts drop across the 470 ohm resistor. This translates to an LED operating current on the order of (7/470) 15 to (10/470) 21 milliampers. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:02 PM PST US From: "Jeff Luckey" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Looking for Cool (Digital) Ammeter Group, Here's what I want: I want to mimic the good old zero-center ammeter but in a digital format. 1. digital readout of current in the center with bar graphs to the left and right indicating the magnitude of the charge or discharge. 2. could be LED or LCD 3. each segment of the bar graph would represent say, 5 amps 4. Instrument face - no more than 3 in. wide by 1.5 in. tall 5. scale +- 60 amps, external shunt, 12v power 6. self dimming Artwork (the equal sign indicates lit segments): ---------- 0 ---------- ---------- 10 ==----- -----==== -20 ---------- I've googled a bit but haven't seen anything like this. Have you? TIA ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:57 PM PST US From: Dale Andee Subject: AeroElectric-List: Corvair wiring Group, I'm new here and seeking some help for my Corvair powered airplane. Attache d is a diagram that began as the Z-9 drawing to which I've made mostly dele tions. The fuel pump circuits have been deleted as I'm using a gravity feed system.- You will also note the elimination of a fuse for the secondary ignition cir cuit. William Wynn recommends that there be no fuses, breakers, ect in the ignition wiring. I do show a 7A in the primary ignition circuit (that may n eed to be increased but I don't have that spec as yet). Could I also get some comments on the battery contactor? I know some say it isn't needed and that a good master switch can handle all of the amps that the system will need. The Dynamo is 20A and the main fuse is 30A. Any suggested changes and the reasons for the changes are appreciated. Plea se be aware that I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box when it comes to el ectrical wiring so your patience and elementary type answers are much appre ciated. -8~) Thanks in advance for all your help. 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