Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:13 AM - Trim tab slaving? (Dr. Andrew Elliott)
2. 07:41 AM - Re: Trim tab slaving? (n801bh@netzero.com)
3. 07:46 AM - Re: Trim tab slaving? (Dave Saylor)
4. 08:14 AM - Re: Trim tab slaving? (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
5. 08:29 AM - Re: Trim tab slaving? (rayj)
6. 08:31 AM - Re: Trim tab slaving? (jfogarty tds.net)
7. 08:32 AM - Re: Trim tab slaving? (Richard Girard)
8. 08:35 AM - Re: Trim tab slaving? (BobsV35B@aol.com)
9. 08:38 AM - Re: Trim tab slaving? (Werner Schneider)
10. 09:13 AM - Re: Trim tab slaving? (Andrew Zachar)
11. 10:01 AM - Re: DIY CBOVM: variations on a theme (user9253)
12. 12:01 PM - a couple questions about Z10/8 diagram (Phil N)
13. 02:06 PM - Shop tip (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 02:06 PM - Circuit emulator - Icircuit (Robert Mitchell)
15. 02:12 PM - Re: a couple questions about Z10/8 diagram (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 02:13 PM - Re: a couple questions about Z10/8 diagram (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 03:18 PM - Re: a couple questions about Z10/8 diagram (pmnewlon)
18. 04:30 PM - Re: Re: Video Inspection Tool (earl_schroeder@juno.com)
19. 05:16 PM - Re: a couple questions about Z10/8 diagram (pmnewlon)
20. 05:25 PM - Re: Re: Video Inspection Tool (David)
21. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: Video Inspection Tool (Dennis Golden)
22. 05:45 PM - Re: Re: Video Inspection Tool (Robert Borger)
23. 05:48 PM - Re: Re: Video Inspection Tool (Robert Borger)
24. 07:20 PM - Re: Trim tab slaving? (Tom Koelzer)
25. 07:39 PM - Trim tab slaving? (Tom Koelzer)
26. 08:05 PM - Re: Re: a couple questions about Z10/8 diagram (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Subject: | Trim tab slaving? |
Gang:
On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out all
control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half of the
allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light, I would
like to be able to trim them away. The trim tab is inset on one side of the
elevator, and takes the entire width, minus about 20 mm on each end. Servo
is RAC
One option would be to add another trim tab to the other side of the
elevator. But to do that I would need some way to slave the two sides
together. Does anyone have an idea about how to do that electronically
without very high cost, or perhaps some way already exists and I haven't
found it? (The elevator design doesn't allow for a simple mechanical
connection.)
Another option, of course, would to be to increase the size of the trim tab,
either making it full width (probably not too effective - delta area <10%),
or extending it aft 20-25 mm (probably would work, but ugly), or both. I
might go that way, but thought I'd ask about the saving first.
Thanks,
Andy
------------------------
Andy Elliott
N601GE/Z601XL/TD/Corvair
298 hrs since 11/08
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Trim tab slaving? |
I vote for extending it aft.. Syncronizing two servos are problematic fo
r sure,
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
---------- Original Message ----------
From: " Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott@cox.net>
>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Trim tab slaving?
Gang:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:offi
ce:office" />
On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out a
ll control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half
of the allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light,
I would like to be able to trim them away. The trim tab is inset on on
e side of the elevator, and takes the entire width, minus about 20 mm on
each end. Servo is RAC
One option would be to add another trim tab to the other side of the ele
vator. But to do that I would need some way to slave the two sides toge
ther. Does anyone have an idea about how to do that electronically with
out very high cost, or perhaps some way already exists and I haven't fou
nd it? (The elevator design doesn't allow for a simple mechanical conne
ction.)
Another option, of course, would to be to increase the size of the trim
tab, either making it full width (probably not too effective - delta are
a <10%), or extending it aft 20-25 mm (probably would work, but ugly), o
r both. I might go that way, but thought I'd ask about the saving first
.
Thanks,
Andy
------------------------
Andy Elliott
N601GE/Z601XL/TD/Corvair
298 hrs since 11/08
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
============
____________________________________________________________
Kill Your Wrinkles
Mom Reveals Shocking $5 method for erasing wrinkles...Doctor
s hate her
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d63d6fa4fa3e46aae6st05vuc
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Trim tab slaving? |
My RV has tabs on both elevators, each cable-driven by a single servo.
I think it would be needlessly complicated to get two servos married
together at all times. If you didn't do that, you'd have to have some
scheme to make sure they were at least able to be manually
coordinated.
I'd recommend extending the existing tab. You might not need as much
as you think. We regularly just tape a tab on temporarily until we
figure out what size to use.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 7:09 AM, Dr. Andrew Elliott <a.s.elliott@cox.net> wrote:
> Gang:
>
>
> On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out all
> control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half of the
> allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light, I would
> like to be able to trim them away. The trim tab is inset on one side of the
> elevator, and takes the entire width, minus about 20 mm on each end. Servo
> is RAC
>
>
> One option would be to add another trim tab to the other side of the
> elevator. But to do that I would need some way to slave the two sides
> together. Does anyone have an idea about how to do that electronically
> without very high cost, or perhaps some way already exists and I haven't
> found it? (The elevator design doesn't allow for a simple mechanical
> connection.)
>
>
> Another option, of course, would to be to increase the size of the trim tab,
> either making it full width (probably not too effective - delta area <10%),
> or extending it aft 20-25 mm (probably would work, but ugly), or both. I
> might go that way, but thought I'd ask about the saving first.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy
>
>
> ------------------------
>
> Andy Elliott
>
> N601GE/Z601XL/TD/Corvair
>
> 298 hrs since 11/08
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Trim tab slaving? |
On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out all
control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half of the
allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light, I would
like to be able to trim them away.
Andy,
Can your existing trim tab be adjusted to go slitely farther than it now
goes. I.e., can the actuator be adjusted to give a little more downward
deflection to the tab. Since you are on the edge of being in trim this
might be a solution without any further mods.
Roger
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Trim tab slaving? |
Would VGs on the trim tab offer any benefit? Still might be ugly but
quick to try.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
On 02/22/2011 09:09 AM, Dr. Andrew Elliott wrote:
> Gang:
>
> On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out
> all control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half
> of the allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light,
> I would like to be able to trim them away. The trim tab is inset on one
> side of the elevator, and takes the entire width, minus about 20 mm on
> each end. Servo is RAC
>
> One option would be to add another trim tab to the other side of the
> elevator. But to do that I would need some way to slave the two sides
> together. Does anyone have an idea about how to do that electronically
> without very high cost, or perhaps some way already exists and I haven't
> found it? (The elevator design doesn't allow for a simple mechanical
> connection.)
>
> Another option, of course, would to be to increase the size of the trim
> tab, either making it full width (probably not too effective - delta
> area <10%), or extending it aft 20-25 mm (probably would work, but
> ugly), or both. I might go that way, but thought I'd ask about the
> saving first.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy
>
> ------------------------
>
> Andy Elliott
>
> N601GE/Z601XL/TD/Corvair
>
> 298 hrs since 11/08
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Trim tab slaving? |
Dr. Elliott, Is the up and down movement on your trim tab per your owners
manual? You should be able to adjust the push rod, however, I'm sure how
yours works.
Jim
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 9:09 AM, Dr. Andrew Elliott <a.s.elliott@cox.net>wrote:
> Gang:
>
>
> On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out all
> control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half of the
> allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light, I would
> like to be able to trim them away. The trim tab is inset on one side of the
> elevator, and takes the entire width, minus about 20 mm on each end. Servo
> is RAC
>
>
> One option would be to add another trim tab to the other side of the
> elevator. But to do that I would need some way to slave the two sides
> together. Does anyone have an idea about how to do that electronically
> without very high cost, or perhaps some way already exists and I haven't
> found it? (The elevator design doesn't allow for a simple mechanical
> connection.)
>
>
> Another option, of course, would to be to increase the size of the trim
> tab, either making it full width (probably not too effective - delta area
> <10%), or extending it aft 20-25 mm (probably would work, but ugly), or
> both. I might go that way, but thought I'd ask about the saving first.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy
>
>
> ------------------------
>
> Andy Elliott
>
> N601GE/Z601XL/TD/Corvair
>
> 298 hrs since 11/08
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Trim tab slaving? |
Take a look at the wickerbill, otherwise known in the U.S. as the Gurney
flap.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 9:09 AM, Dr. Andrew Elliott <a.s.elliott@cox.net>wrote:
> Gang:
>
>
> On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out all
> control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half of the
> allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light, I would
> like to be able to trim them away. The trim tab is inset on one side of the
> elevator, and takes the entire width, minus about 20 mm on each end. Servo
> is RAC
>
>
> One option would be to add another trim tab to the other side of the
> elevator. But to do that I would need some way to slave the two sides
> together. Does anyone have an idea about how to do that electronically
> without very high cost, or perhaps some way already exists and I haven't
> found it? (The elevator design doesn't allow for a simple mechanical
> connection.)
>
>
> Another option, of course, would to be to increase the size of the trim
> tab, either making it full width (probably not too effective - delta area
> <10%), or extending it aft 20-25 mm (probably would work, but ugly), or
> both. I might go that way, but thought I'd ask about the saving first.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy
>
>
> ------------------------
>
> Andy Elliott
>
> N601GE/Z601XL/TD/Corvair
>
> 298 hrs since 11/08
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Trim tab slaving? |
Good Morning Andy,
Have you thought about adding a small angle on the top and bottom of your
trim tab?
Some control surfaces experience seperation at the trailing edges. One
trick that has been used was to add a small angle to the trim tab or,
occasionally, the whole surface to increase effectiveness. Supposedly, if the
air
is separating at that point, the angles create very little additional drag
and do a good job of increasing affectivity. That was how Morane-Saulnier
solved the problem on their Paris Jet 760.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 2/22/2011 10:15:39 A.M. Central Standard Time,
mrspudandcompany@verizon.net writes:
On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out all
control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half of the
allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light, I would
like to be able to trim them away.
Andy,
Can your existing trim tab be adjusted to go slitely farther than it now
goes. I.e., can the actuator be adjusted to give a little more downward
deflection to the tab. Since you are on the edge of being in trim this might be
a
solution without any further mods.
Roger
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Trim tab slaving? |
Andy,
there might be another way, on the Glastar a similar issue exists
especially for TD's. Two ways did help, first one was having a tape over
the hinge line between HS and Elevator, this did increase effectiveness
(not sure the 601 is using hinges?) Then another was to add some vortex
generator in front of the tab (lower side) increasing effectiveness of
the tab as well.
Werner
On 22.02.2011 16:09, Dr. Andrew Elliott wrote:
> Gang:
>
> On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out
> all control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Trim tab slaving? |
A T-strip would most effectively increase the hinge moment of the tab, thus
increasing it's effectiveness.
Be careful though, messing with hinge-moments on a surface so far away from
the elevator hinge line can quickly get you into trouble flutter-style if
you don't have some flutter analysis to back it up.
(Also, a t-strip on the tab would also increase the hinge moments on the
elevator resulting in higher longitudinal pitch forces.)
I'd stick with increased tab travel or second tab on the other elevator.
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:23 AM, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
> Would VGs on the trim tab offer any benefit? Still might be ugly but quick
> to try.
>
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN
>
> On 02/22/2011 09:09 AM, Dr. Andrew Elliott wrote:
>
>> Gang:
>>
>>
>> On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out
>> all control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half
>> of the allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light,
>> I would like to be able to trim them away. The trim tab is inset on one
>>
>> side of the elevator, and takes the entire width, minus about 20 mm on
>> each end. Servo is RAC
>>
>> One option would be to add another trim tab to the other side of the
>> elevator. But to do that I would need some way to slave the two sides
>> together. Does anyone have an idea about how to do that electronically
>> without very high cost, or perhaps some way already exists and I haven't
>> found it? (The elevator design doesn't allow for a simple mechanical
>> connection.)
>>
>> Another option, of course, would to be to increase the size of the trim
>> tab, either making it full width (probably not too effective - delta
>> area <10%), or extending it aft 20-25 mm (probably would work, but
>> ugly), or both. I might go that way, but thought I'd ask about the
>> saving first.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> ------------------------
>>
>> Andy Elliott
>>
>> N601GE/Z601XL/TD/Corvair
>>
>> 298 hrs since 11/08
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
--
Andrew Zachar
andrew.d.zachar@gmail.com
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: DIY CBOVM: variations on a theme |
Thanks for that O.V. circuit using the LM431, Bob. I will add that IC to my next
electronics parts order.
Joe
Do not archive
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331835#331835
Message 12
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Subject: | a couple questions about Z10/8 diagram |
Maybe I missed the answer to this question in the text ...
I am unfortunately unable to install a backup power source (SD8, SD20) because
of how the engine mount on my RV4 comes across the back of the engine hear the
vacuum pump pad. That said, I am planning to install a 7AH backup (brownout?)
battery on a tray behind my instrument panel.
- I am wondering if I would be OK to install a switch in place of the brownout
battery relay? My only reason for this is that I have seen relays fail more often
than switches in my automation control field. I could be dissuaded.
- I ordered the BandC ebus diode on a heat sink based on an older copy of the 'Connection.
Now in 12a I see that a Schottky is mentioned. Any reason to abandon
the original diode plan?
- I plan to use the same PB/Tyco circuit breakers as Composite Designs uses in
their power panels. They have a circuit board that the PIDG terminals on the
breakers are connected to. My thought is to use a piece of brass and 'forest
of terminals' such as the ground plate BandC sells for power distribution to the
breakers. The plate would be insulated from the panel and covered to protect
inadvertent shorting by 'falling objects'. Does this sound reasonable?
Thank you!
Phil
Message 13
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|
I had a little cut-n-glue job in the woodshop this
morning . . . and had to fill a new dispenser bottle
with my favorite wood glue.
I occurred to me that builders here on the List might
be interested in the following:
I've found it useful to have lots of small glue bottles
around as opposed to one big one. Further, the bottles
used by Elmer's have a handy, narrow tip for precision
dispensing. The tip is liquid tight when closed.
Every fall before school starts, Walmart has a row
of bargain bins stocked with pencil paks, tablets,
etc. One bin will contain a bucket load of Elmer's
School Glue in these 4 oz bottles. I've paid as
little as $.25 for a bottle of glue.
Emacs!
You can rinse these out and refill with more
sophisticated products like glues, lubricants,
solvents, etc. The labels can be removed to
get a 'clean' bottle but it's pretty labor
intensive. Most of my 'recycled' bottles still
carry the original labels with a new tape-
label wrapped around and re-identified with a
Sharpie.
Unfortunately, the beginning of the next school
year is some time off . . . but perhaps this
note to the List will surface in the gray-matter
the next time you walk past a row of those pre-
school bargain bins. Snatch up a half dozen
or so . . .
Bob . . .
Message 14
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Subject: | Circuit emulator - Icircuit |
Hi all,
I downloaded an app into my IPad called "icircuit", for $9.99 It is a circuit
emulator for the IPad. Since I know nothing about electronics, I thought it might
be an interesting way to learn! First problem was that I had to learn how
to use the program. In going to the main web site, i found a video demonstrating
the app;
http://icircuitapp.com/
I also found that the program is based on a set of free programs at;
www.falstad.com/circuit/
The whole thing is quite an eye opener into electronics, maybe one of the EE types
could comment on this whole deal, does it have a practical use to this group?
There is apparently a way to add circuits via email to the IPad version, haven't
figured that out yet?!
Bob Mitchell
L-320
Sent from my iPad
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: a couple questions about Z10/8 diagram |
At 02:49 PM 2/22/2011, you wrote:
>Maybe I missed the answer to this question in the text ...
>
>I am unfortunately unable to install a backup power source (SD8,
>SD20) because of how the engine mount on my RV4 comes across the
>back of the engine hear the vacuum pump pad. That said, I am
>planning to install a 7AH backup (brownout?) battery on a tray
>behind my instrument panel.
What equipment are you carrying that drives this
decision?
>- I am wondering if I would be OK to install a switch in place of
>the brownout battery relay? My only reason for this is that I have
>seen relays fail more often than switches in my automation control
>field. I could be dissuaded.
Not here to persuade you of anything . . . but
your worry-bucket seems to be carrying some
issues. It would be helpful to know more about
your equipment list and the reasons that drive
installation of a second battery. What failure
mode do you perceive that loss of the relay would
be a pre-cursor to your own dark-n-stormy-night
story? Things FAIL all the time in airplanes.
The best design goals call for crafting systems
that are failure tolerant.
>- I ordered the BandC ebus diode on a heat sink based on an older
>copy of the 'Connection. Now in 12a I see that a Schottky is
>mentioned. Any reason to abandon the original diode plan?
No.
>- I plan to use the same PB/Tyco circuit breakers as Composite
>Designs uses in their power panels. They have a circuit board that
>the PIDG terminals on the breakers are connected to. My thought is
>to use a piece of brass and 'forest of terminals' such as the ground
>plate BandC sells for power distribution to the breakers. The plate
>would be insulated from the panel and covered to protect inadvertent
>shorting by 'falling objects'. Does this sound reasonable?
No. To many parts and joints. Why not use breakers that
are bus-bar friendly?
Bob . . .
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: a couple questions about Z10/8 diagram |
>
>
>- I ordered the BandC ebus diode on a heat sink . . .
What are your e-bus loads? Do you NEED a heat-sinked
normal feedpath diode? You're building a metal airplane.
I suspect the bare-foot rectifier assembly can be simply
bolted to some portion of the airplane.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: a couple questions about Z10/8 diagram |
Crud - I had all my answers typed in and forgot to copy/paste to notepad in case
I had been automagically logged out. I hit 'preview' and lost all I typed.
Back to the keyboard.....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331868#331868
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Video Inspection Tool |
For those of us that bought the 'original' unit from HF, here is a link to the
10mm lens that is said to work. Now you can get into a spark plug hole..I have
not tried it.
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/10211
Earl
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Video Inspection Tool
As these things go, I think you'll find this one is a much better unit. Smaller
head (10 mm) longer reach (90 cm) higher resolutions. Soon they will be perfect
and free.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: a couple questions about Z10/8 diagram |
Bob - thanks for taking the time to provide feedback! My responses are in-line
below. Phil
>> (7AH backup) What equipment are you carrying that drives this decision?
Primarily my electronic ignition, EIS and EFIS
>> your worry-bucket seems to be carrying some issues.
It sure is! I only have one teenager and had some excess space in that bucket
:-)
I've experienced the failed alternator in a production airplane and don't want
to be there by my own doing in my homebuilt. The plane I owned was rented with
a flight school and I was at the mercy of their maintenance as were those who
rented it. It was stranded twice because of a failed alternator that wasn't
noticed in a timely fashion. The first sign of a problem was the comm radio no
longer transmitted. Short minutes later the nav would quit. Thankfully the
problem was never more nerve-wracking than having to abort the flight somewhat
short of the intended destination and it never happened while under IFR. My
plan is to have a well thought-out and implemented electrical system in my RV
that will provide the necessary ability to alert me to an issue then let me continue
without any worries for an hour minimum and up to two hours. That gives
me lots of options to complete the flight to a ho-hum end; most likely at the
intended destination.
>> (switch in place of the brownout battery relay) What failure mode do you perceive
that loss of the relay would be a pre-cursor to your own dark-n-stormy-night
story?
In hindsight I probably should have left this out. Comparing my auto industry
automation where the relays make and break thousands of times before failure compared
to fact that the switch that was used to set the machine in motion is
actuated one or more orders of magnitude fewer times isn't 'fair'. I had a relay
in my BandC shopping cart when I left work, I will just order it tomorrow
:-)
>> It would be helpful to know more about your equipment list and the reasons that
drive installation of a second battery.
The 'Connection basic list (xponder, nav radio, panel flood, turn coordinator)
plus my electronic ignition and a rear pax light. The ignition adds 2A to the
basic list, though I am debating putting one on the battery bus and the other
on the e-bus which would lighten the load by 1A to just under 4A.
>> What are your e-bus loads? Do you NEED a heat-sinked normal feedpath diode?
You're building a metal airplane. I suspect the bare-foot rectifier assembly can
be simply bolted to some portion of the airplane.
I already have the diode on a heat sink because I hadn't planned on the shelf behind
the panel for a small battery. Now that I am going to have a plate there,
the barefoot one would work but I will just stick with the one on a heatsink.
I was wondering about the Schottky diode and if there was a benefit to the
lower voltage losses when compared to the diode I have already.
>> (PB/Tyco circuit breakers connected to forest of tabs bus) Too many parts and
joints. Why not use breakers that are bus-bar friendly?
Size, weight and cost. I'll admit I like the way they look and that I'm not excited
about fuse blocks.
>> Maybe I missed the answer to this question in the text ...
I started to ask just one question - the one about the relay - and then just kept
adding more. I miss a lot in the text that I pick up when I reread sections.
I recently updated from v10 to v12a and I have to start from square two. So
much to learn.... Frankly the adventure of rewiring my airplane has been made
tremendously easier because of your text and website. I've gone from tentatively
engaging to full-on fun with it because of them!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331878#331878
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: Video Inspection Tool |
Has anyone tried this smaller head with the HF 66550 unit? Btw, when I
search the HF site for that part number, it returns zero hits. <sigh>.
Guess it's been replaced but it looks like the replacement does not have
the removable screen.
For $70, I'd like to be *sure* it works before I buy one. Done that too
many times and wasted dollars. :)
Thanks,
David
earl_schroeder@juno.com wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "earl_schroeder@juno.com"<earl_schroeder@juno.com>
>
> For those of us that bought the 'original' unit from HF, here is a link to the
10mm lens that is said to work. Now you can get into a spark plug hole..I have
not tried it.
>
> http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/10211
>
> Earl
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "Eric M. Jones"<emjones@charter.net>
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Video Inspection Tool
> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:29:10 -0800
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"<emjones@charter.net>
>
> As these things go, I think you'll find this one is a much better unit. Smaller
head (10 mm) longer reach (90 cm) higher resolutions. Soon they will be perfect
and free.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones@charter.net
>
>
>
--
If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid
of Soros.
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Video Inspection Tool |
On 02/21/2011 05:29 PM, Eric M. Jones wrote:
> <emjones@charter.net>
>
> As these things go, I think you'll find this one is a much better
> unit. Smaller head (10 mm) longer reach (90 cm) higher resolutions.
> Soon they will be perfect and free.
Can this thing really get into a 10mm sparkplug hole?
--
Dennis Golden
Golden Consulting Services, Inc.
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Video Inspection Tool |
Dennis,
I recently purchased the General Instruments CDS300 on sale from Harbor Freight
(~$90) and it came with 3 meter cable and 9mm camera head. I haven't tried
it yet, but it sure looks like it would peek into a spark plug hole.
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Tri-Gear, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S Prop
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232
http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046
Europa Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Feb 22, 2011, at 19:21, Dennis Golden wrote:
>
> On 02/21/2011 05:29 PM, Eric M. Jones wrote:
>> <emjones@charter.net>
>>
>> As these things go, I think you'll find this one is a much better
>> unit. Smaller head (10 mm) longer reach (90 cm) higher resolutions.
>> Soon they will be perfect and free.
>
> Can this thing really get into a 10mm sparkplug hole?
>
> --
> Dennis Golden
> Golden Consulting Services, Inc.
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: Video Inspection Tool |
David,
The General Instruments GSC300 does not have the removable screen. You have to
go to the GSC400 and spend a lot more $$$ for that option.
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Tri-Gear, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S Prop
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232
http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046
Europa Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Feb 22, 2011, at 19:13, David wrote:
>
> Has anyone tried this smaller head with the HF 66550 unit? Btw, when I search
the HF site for that part number, it returns zero hits. <sigh>. Guess it's
been replaced but it looks like the replacement does not have the removable screen.
> For $70, I'd like to be *sure* it works before I buy one. Done that too many
times and wasted dollars. :)
>
> Thanks,
> David
>
>
> earl_schroeder@juno.com wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "earl_schroeder@juno.com"<earl_schroeder@juno.com>
>>
>> For those of us that bought the 'original' unit from HF, here is a link to the
10mm lens that is said to work. Now you can get into a spark plug hole..I
have not tried it.
>>
>> http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/10211
>>
>> Earl
>> ---------- Original Message ----------
>> From: "Eric M. Jones"<emjones@charter.net>
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Video Inspection Tool
>> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:29:10 -0800
>>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"<emjones@charter.net>
>>
>> As these things go, I think you'll find this one is a much better unit. Smaller
head (10 mm) longer reach (90 cm) higher resolutions. Soon they will be perfect
and free.
>>
>> --------
>> Eric M. Jones
>> www.PerihelionDesign.com
>> 113 Brentwood Drive
>> Southbridge, MA 01550
>> (508) 764-2072
>> emjones@charter.net
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: Trim tab slaving? |
Dr Elliot,
Adjust / extend the throw or extend the trim tab chord with a temporary tab,
which ever is more convenient, and measure the effect. We used to use simpl
e hanging scales like those to weight small fish to measure stick forces at r
epeatable flight conditions. Baseline the forces at the desired landing conf
iguration, weight, and CG location first. Make the tab mods and analyze the r
esults. If there is no noticeable change then there may be some flow separat
ion on the underside of the elevator as others have suggested that has contr
ibuted to the problem. Elevator seals and/or vortex generators at or forward
of the elevator hinge line area might help. I would not entertain the comp
lexity of synchronizing trim motors. Too hard.
Once you find what works the best, be sure and test the rest of the trim env
elope at various speeds and CG/wt conditions to ensure flying qualities over
all are still ok. Then construct a permanent change and verify via a retest
of the same conditions. Then publish findings to all.
Tom
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 22, 2011, at 9:09 AM, " Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott@cox.net> wro
te:
> Gang:
>
>
>
> On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out all
control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half of the
allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light, I would l
ike to be able to trim them away. The trim tab is inset on one side of the e
levator, and takes the entire width, minus about 20 mm on each end. Servo i
s RAC
>
>
>
> One option would be to add another trim tab to the other side of the eleva
tor. But to do that I would need some way to slave the two sides together.
Does anyone have an idea about how to do that electronically without very h
igh cost, or perhaps some way already exists and I haven't found it? (The e
levator design doesn't allow for a simple mechanical connection.)
>
>
>
> Another option, of course, would to be to increase the size of the trim ta
b, either making it full width (probably not too effective - delta area <10%
), or extending it aft 20-25 mm (probably would work, but ugly), or both. I
might go that way, but thought I'd ask about the saving first.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> ------------------------
>
> Andy Elliott
>
> N601GE/Z601XL/TD/Corvair
>
> 298 hrs since 11/08
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 25
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Subject: | Trim tab slaving? |
Dr Elliot,
Adjust / extend the throw or extend the trim tab chord with a temporary tab,
which ever is more convenient, and measure the effect. We used to use simpl
e hanging scales like those to weight small fish to measure stick forces at r
epeatable flight conditions. Baseline the forces at the desired landing conf
iguration, weight, and CG location first. Make the tab mods and analyze the r
esults. If there is no noticeable change then there may be some flow separat
ion on the underside of the elevator as others have suggested that has contr
ibuted to the problem. Elevator seals and/or vortex generators at or forward
of the elevator hinge line area might help. I would not entertain the comp
lexity of synchronizing trim motors. Too hard.
Once you find what works the best, be sure and test the rest of the trim env
elope at various speeds and CG/wt conditions to ensure flying qualities over
all are still ok. Then construct a permanent change and verify via a retest
of the same conditions. Then publish findings to all.
Tom
On Feb 22, 2011, at 9:09 AM, " Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott@cox.net> wro
te:
> Gang:
>
>
>
> On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out all
control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half of the
allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light, I would l
ike to be able to trim them away. The trim tab is inset on one side of the e
levator, and takes the entire width, minus about 20 mm on each end. Servo i
s RAC
>
>
>
> One option would be to add another trim tab to the other side of the eleva
tor. But to do that I would need some way to slave the two sides together.
Does anyone have an idea about how to do that electronically without very h
igh cost, or perhaps some way already exists and I haven't found it? (The e
levator design doesn't allow for a simple mechanical connection.)
>
>
>
> Another option, of course, would to be to increase the size of the trim ta
b, either making it full width (probably not too effective - delta area <10%
), or extending it aft 20-25 mm (probably would work, but ugly), or both. I
might go that way, but thought I'd ask about the saving first.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> ------------------------
>
> Andy Elliott
>
> N601GE/Z601XL/TD/Corvair
>
> 298 hrs since 11/08
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: a couple questions about Z10/8 diagram |
At 08:13 PM 2/22/2011, you wrote:
Bob - thanks for taking the time to provide feedback! My responses
are in-line below. Phil
>> (7AH backup) What equipment are you carrying that drives this decision?
Primarily my electronic ignition, EIS and EFIS
How much time to you expect to spend with
your head in the clouds?
>> your worry-bucket seems to be carrying some issues.
It sure is! I only have one teenager and had some excess space in
that bucket :-)
Understand.
I've experienced the failed alternator in a production airplane and
don't want to be there by my own doing in my homebuilt. The plane I
owned was rented with a flight school and I was at the mercy of their
maintenance as were those who rented it.
Yup, been there, done that. But keep in mind that
the service life of alternators on t/c aircraft is
miserable. Plane power, B&C, and many OBAM aircraft
builders are adapting modern alternators to aircraft
with great results. B&C's return rate is a very small
number of the total fleet. I suspect others are seeing
similar performance.
Keep in mind, that for every dark-n-stormy-night story
about some failure, there are thousands of other non-
stories that you never hear about. The real risks for
tense days in the cockpit due to alternator failure
are a tiny fraction of what your grandpa had to endure
on his Cherokee that keeps breaking certified brackets.
It was stranded twice because of a failed alternator that wasn't
noticed in a timely fashion.
Typical TC aircraft . . . no timely notification of
low voltage. Most dark-n-stormy-night story tellers
say the first notion they had for a failed alternator
was when the panel started going black/silent.
The first sign of a problem was the comm radio no longer
transmitted. Short minutes later the nav would quit. Thankfully the
problem was never more nerve-wracking than having to abort the flight
somewhat short of the intended destination and it never happened
while under IFR. My plan is to have a well thought-out and implemented
By 'implemented' I hope you mean WELL maintained.
Your ship's main battery should not be run until it
no longer cranks the engine. It needs to be replaced
when its MEASURED capacity no longer supports your
design goals for alternator out endurance.
. . electrical system in my RV that will provide the necessary
ability to alert me to an issue then let me continue without any
worries for an hour minimum and up to two hours. That gives me lots
of options to complete the flight to a ho-hum end; most likely at the
intended destination.
Okay, what's your endurance load?
>> (switch in place of the brownout battery relay) What failure mode
do you perceive that loss of the relay would be a pre-cursor to your
own dark-n-stormy-night story?
In hindsight I probably should have left this out. Comparing my auto
industry automation where the relays make and break thousands of
times before failure compared to fact that the switch that was used
to set the machine in motion is actuated one or more orders of
magnitude fewer times isn't 'fair'. I had a relay in my BandC
shopping cart when I left work, I will just order it tomorrow :-)
What electronic ignition(s) are planned?
>> It would be helpful to know more about your equipment list and
the reasons that drive installation of a second battery.
The 'Connection basic list (xponder, nav radio, panel flood, turn
coordinator) plus my electronic ignition and a rear pax light. The
ignition adds 2A to the basic list, though I am debating putting one
on the battery bus and the other on the e-bus which would lighten the
load by 1A to just under 4A.
Okay, it looks like you need 2 hours at a 4A rate.
An exemplar 17 a.h. battery discharged at 4.25A
is good for 3 hours new
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/17AH_12V_Capacity_vs_Load.gif
and 2+ hours at end of life.
>> What are your e-bus loads? Do you NEED a heat-sinked normal
feedpath diode? You're building a metal airplane. I suspect the
bare-foot rectifier assembly can be simply bolted to some portion of
the airplane.
I already have the diode on a heat sink because I hadn't planned on
the shelf behind the panel for a small battery. Now that I am going
to have a plate there, the barefoot one would work but I will just
stick with the one on a heatsink. I was wondering about the Schottky
diode and if there was a benefit to the lower voltage losses when
compared to the diode I have already.
No advantage from an energy conservation perspective
(the main alternator is up and running when that diode
is in service). There's an advantage that less heat sink
is needed. The Schottky would most certainly run well
"bare-sinked".
>> (PB/Tyco circuit breakers connected to forest of tabs bus) Too
many parts and joints. Why not use breakers that are bus-bar friendly?
Size, weight and cost. I'll admit I like the way they look and that
I'm not excited about fuse blocks.
But I'm not excited about all the monkey-motion for using
these fast-on terminated devices. Please consider the miniature
screw-terminal devices.
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/Klixon_1.jpg
>> Maybe I missed the answer to this question in the text ...
I started to ask just one question - the one about the relay - and
then just kept adding more. I miss a lot in the text that I pick up
when I reread sections. I recently updated from v10 to v12a and I
have to start from square two. So much to learn.... Frankly the
adventure of rewiring my airplane has been made tremendously easier
because of your text and website. I've gone from tentatively
engaging to full-on fun with it because of them!
Good. Wiring your airplane ought to be the fun part.
A guy who attended my second or third seminar way back when
wrote to me a couple weeks after the seminar. He had been
sticking electro-whizzies in his LongEz for years. After
the seminar, he went home, ripped it all out and wrote
to tell me it all went back in a couple weekends but with
confidence of understanding.
I'm not convinced that you need two batteries yet . . .
Reducing battery maintenance to two articles will pay
for the better breakers in a few years.
Bob . . .
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