---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/01/11: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:26 AM - Re: Toggle switch keyway convention: up vs. down (Eric M. Jones) 2. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: Toggle switch keyway convention: up vs. down (BobsV35B@aol.com) 3. 07:55 AM - remote cell phone switch (bob noffs) 4. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: Toggle switch keyway convention: up vs. down (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 08:03 AM - Re: remote cell phone switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 08:24 AM - Re: Toggle switch keyway convention: up vs. down (John Morgensen) 7. 08:56 AM - Re: Toggle switch keyway convention: up vs. down (tim2542@sbcglobal.net) 8. 09:38 AM - Bread-board meets the brass board (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 11:00 AM - What's new in the AEC catalog (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 06:06 PM - Need help with wiring LR3C-14 regulator & LED Lo Volt Wn (plevyakh) 11. 10:26 PM - Re: Toggle switch keyway convention: up vs. down (roee) 12. 10:28 PM - Re: Toggle switch keyway convention: up vs. down (roee) 13. 10:33 PM - Re: Toggle switch keyway convention: up vs. down (roee) 14. 10:34 PM - Re: Need help with wiring LR3C-14 regulator & LED Lo Volt Wn (rparigoris) 15. 11:02 PM - Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 16. 11:05 PM - Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:19 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Toggle switch keyway convention: up vs. down From: "Eric M. Jones" You can't get closer to the Military Industrial Complex than Eaton, and they publish this bulletin: http://www.ee-usa.com/ProductCatalogs/Eaton/eatonXT.pdf You will notice that no Mil-standard is called out, but they lean heavily towards "key down". Their ST switches are "key-down-off" True, they offer plates in either orientation, but they offer switches only one way...key-down-off. This also helps shed dirt-water, when you think about it. The issue is settled: KEY-DOWN-OFF Sorry, Bob. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332361#332361 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:02 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Toggle switch keyway convention: up vs. down Good Morning Eric, Not quite so simple! When I was making a new panel for our Piper Pacer, I wanted to make all keyways the same so that I could do all the locking holes on the first machining pass. I was using a whole pacel full of Klixon 7274 circuit breakers and I wanted the amperage listing to be right side up. That required that the keyway be on top. I was able to wire the switches so they worked in that orientation so all seemed well. Unfortunately, I needed to install a different design circuit breaker, but it was made by the same manufacturer. Would you believe that in order to have the amperage number right side up the keyway had to be down? On my most recent panel rebuild, I made all of the electrical switch and circuit breakers so that the keyways could go either way. Doubled the work of drilling locking pin holes, but it was consistent and easy to change the orientation of the CBs when needed. There is NO standard! Not even within one manufacturer's design department. Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 3/1/2011 8:27:02 A.M. Central Standard Time, emjones@charter.net writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" You can't get closer to the Military Industrial Complex than Eaton, and they publish this bulletin: http://www.ee-usa.com/ProductCatalogs/Eaton/eatonXT.pdf You will notice that no Mil-standard is called out, but they lean heavily towards "key down". Their ST switches are "key-down-off" True, they offer plates in either orientation, but they offer switches only one way...key-down-off. This also helps shed dirt-water, when you think about it. The issue is settled: KEY-DOWN-OFF Sorry, Bob. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:20 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: remote cell phone switch From: bob noffs hi all, one last blurb on this thing. remember i built from a kit for $15. this will be used to preheat my engine and for now i am preheating my shop in the hangar. my plane is built and is being reassembled for the last time. i use a heating system with no motors to burn out or be stopped my a mouse nest. i set the cell phone to stay lit for 3 minutes, not much chance of a wrong number to be dialed again 3 minutes after the first. i also put a timer in the line that powers the board so it would be turned off in the night if it did happen to be turned on. initially i did have problems with the cell phone lighting up and turning the preheat off. one lighting will turn off the relay. the phone lights every time power is resupplied thru the charger. it seems that when the chaarger is in the cold [say 5-10 deg. f.] or less [lots less here in n. wi.] it stops sending current completely and when more current is called for it starts the flow and that turns on the cell light, turning off the relay if it was on. so...........now the whole thing is in a styrofoam cooler [very effecient, got it from the blood bank!] and a 4 watt night light keeps the temp 50 deg. f. above outside air temp. a thermostat from a junked space heater was wired into the line of the 4 watt bulb and now it is a constant 65 deg.in the cooler. no phone light ups now because of charger current interruption... it is reliable. fwiw........ down to 20 below i keep a cooler for food in the hangar at a constant 40 deg. with a 15 watt bulb and an inline thermostat. gotta have water for the coffee pot and soup for the microwave! bob noffs ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:58:03 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Toggle switch keyway convention: up vs. down >I would take "keyway conventions" with a grain of salt! It's been about 15 years since I did much writing about switches but I think the context under which keyways are oriented has become a bit muddled. Most switches are symmetrical . . . they function the same no matter which side the keyway faces. Further, the right and left sides can be interchanged with no observable differences in functionality. When we began to study the application of progressive transfer switches I published drawings with numbered terminals to assist the neophyte technician in getting wires on the right terminals the first time. I discovered that the way Microswitch and Carling built their progressive switches was not the same. I had to publish this piece to make folks aware of the differences: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Carling_Micro/Carling_Micro.pdf . . . right and left hand columns were functionally swapped between the two brands. In later years, I think Carling swapped their progressive transfer switches to conform to what the mil-spec guys were doing. Microswitch had numbers molded into their switch housings as did the other high-end suppliers. So I adopted THEIR convention for speaking to terminal ' numbering versus functionality. Once you venture out of the purely symmetrical world by adding spring loading to one side (or single pole switches with only two terminals) then there is risk that the desired functionality cannot be achieved with the keyway oriented any particular direction. This is one reason why I've always recommended that keyway engagement washers (shipped on all products offered by AEC and I think B&C) . . . be used on the BACK side of the panel. This way, the hole in the panel for the keyway engagement washer can be under a switch labeling placard . . . or be so shallow that it does not penetrate the panel. This allows one to have them above, below or even changed after initial installation causes one to discover the need to change it. Emacs! Speaking of 'conventions' . . . you'll note that the panel tab and keyway tabs are on the same side of this locking ring. But I've seen them on opposite sides too. So the premise of this tread is correct, there are no industry-wide "conventions" for marking, functional orientation, or installation of switches. There ARE standards . . . many of them mil-specs that speak to widely adopted configurations. But it's a free-market decision by designers and manufacturers as to how their particular product comes into the marketplace. In the case of switches, one would do well not to stray far from what the majority of your competitors are doing . . . a Croatian market street vendor will find himself at a decided disadvantage hawking wares in Swaheli. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:46 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: remote cell phone switch . . .now the whole thing is in a styrofoam cooler [very effecient, got it from the blood bank!] and a 4 watt night light keeps the temp 50 deg. f. above outside air temp. a thermostat from a junked space heater was wired into the line of the 4 watt bulb and now it is a constant 65 deg.in the cooler. no phone light ups now because of charger current interruption... it is reliable. fwiw........ down to 20 below i keep a cooler for food in the hangar at a constant 40 deg. with a 15 watt bulb and an inline thermostat. gotta have water for the coffee pot and soup for the microwave! Good show! Rube Goldberg would be proud of you! Bottom line is that it works to design goals. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:45 AM PST US From: John Morgensen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Toggle switch keyway convention: up vs. down I just cut anti-rotation tab holes top and bottom. They are covered by the switch plates and no key orientation issues. FYI - The pull-able breakers seemed to require key way up. John On 2/28/2011 5:01 PM, tim2542@sbcglobal.net wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: tim2542@sbcglobal.net > > I just ran into this myself after having my panel cut out on a CNC machine with all the antirotation tabs cut into the top of the hole. Now I guess I'll have to replace all my 1-2 switches. > Tim > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 28, 2011, at 2:32 PM, "roee" wrote: > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:27 AM PST US From: tim2542@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Toggle switch keyway convention: up vs. down Thanks John, I'm not using holes, I had the key cut into the switch hole, so that won't work. But it's no big deal, I just need to use a different switch. Tim Sent from my iPhone On Mar 1, 2011, at 7:15 AM, John Morgensen wrote: > > I just cut anti-rotation tab holes top and bottom. They are covered by the switch plates and no key orientation issues. FYI - The pull-able breakers seemed to require key way up. > > John > > On 2/28/2011 5:01 PM, tim2542@sbcglobal.net wrote: >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: tim2542@sbcglobal.net >> >> I just ran into this myself after having my panel cut out on a CNC machine with all the antirotation tabs cut into the top of the hole. Now I guess I'll have to replace all my 1-2 switches. >> Tim >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 28, 2011, at 2:32 PM, "roee" wrote: >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:38:28 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bread-board meets the brass board Back when grandpa was a interested in working with that 'radio' stuff, it was not uncommon for the DIY electronics project to be built on a sheet of wood with devices simple screwed down to the surface. If one needed the occasional tie-point, a brass nail driven into the wood could be a place where multiple conductors could be soldered together at a mechanically stable location. This was often referred to as 'bread boarding'. Modern practitioners of the ancient arts are still making good use of grandpa's techniques . . . Emacs! In more recent years, the parts got smaller and the circuits much more compact. As operating frequencies rose, the need for a low-impedance ground emerged and the prototyping moved off the 'breadboards' onto what was euphemistically called a 'brass-board'. The planar substrate became a sheet of copper clad ECB material or other solderable material. Several times a year, I find it necessary to refine some combination of components for part of a design or to fabricate a temporary test tool. The two photos below . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Development_Tools/BB_BB_top.jpg http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Development_Tools/BB_BB_Bottom.jpg illustrate a technique I've found useful to these tasks. A small sheet of brass (or copper) is tacked to a piece of wood . . . in this case a scrap of hard veneered plywood. Hard terminals are machine screws counter-bored in from the bottom. I've tried various glues for bonding the brass to the wood . . . soldering temperatures tend to break he bond. So shortest nails in the brad gun serve to attach the brass to the wood. If too long, they can be folded down on the back. This is a fast, low cost, experimental substrate that borrows from three generations of tinkerers. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:00:00 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: What's new in the AEC catalog While unpacking some more moving boxes (I'm 3 years into a 5 year effort) I discovered some 3-pocket PIDG crimp tools and some coax strippers. These are surplus to our current business model and are listed on the catalog at attractive prices to get them out of my shop (and perhaps into yours?) I had a customer ask what it took to make the popular 20D Eclipse quad-crimp tool into a 22HD tool. After a making a go/no-go depth jig and little fiddling on the lathe, I've got a process for fabricating a 22HD pin positioners for the Eclipse tool. That item too has been added to the catalog. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:42 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Need help with wiring LR3C-14 regulator & LED Lo Volt Wn From: "plevyakh" Bob and fellow builders, I need your help checking my use of an NK YB15 series pushbutton LED light with the B&C LR3C-14 Alternator controller. I've attached what I think is how the Lo Volt Warning light should be wired. I'd like to use this style switch since one of my instruments is using this same LED warning light. I'd like to keep the same style across my panel. This LED light is NKK YB series part number YB15WSKW01-5C-JC-RO. See: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NKK-Switches/YB15WSKW01-5C-JC-RO/?qs=Vo7e0yZOYdFthTQBhy2rSg%3d%3d Can you please take a look at the schematic attached and confirm the wiring is correct and that it should work fine with LR3C in place of the Midget Flanged bulb? Thanks, Howard (working thru my page per system schematics) -------- Howard Plevyak GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio hplevyak@mac.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332436#332436 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/led_lo_volt_wng_light_schematic_w_lr3c_14_regulator_145.pdf ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:23 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Toggle switch keyway convention: up vs. down From: "roee" Bob's reply somehow ended up in a separate duplicate thread, so I'm re-posting it here: nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote: > > > I would take "keyway conventions" with a grain of salt! > > It's been about 15 years since I did much writing > about switches but I think the context under which > keyways are oriented has become a bit muddled. > > Most switches are symmetrical . . . they function > the same no matter which side the keyway faces. > Further, the right and left sides can be interchanged > with no observable differences in functionality. > > When we began to study the application of progressive > transfer switches I published drawings with numbered > terminals to assist the neophyte technician in getting > wires on the right terminals the first time. I discovered > that the way Microswitch and Carling built their progressive > switches was not the same. I had to publish this piece to > make folks aware of the differences: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Carling_Micro/Carling_Micro.pdf (http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Carling_Micro/Carling_Micro.pdf) > > . . . right and left hand columns were functionally > swapped between the two brands. In later years, > I think Carling swapped their progressive transfer > switches to conform to what the mil-spec guys > were doing. > > Microswitch had numbers molded into their switch > housings as did the other high-end suppliers. So > I adopted THEIR convention for speaking to terminal > ' numbering versus functionality. > > Once you venture out of the purely symmetrical > world by adding spring loading to one side (or > single pole switches with only two terminals) > then there is risk that the desired functionality > cannot be achieved with the keyway oriented any > particular direction. > > This is one reason why I've always recommended > that keyway engagement washers (shipped on all > products offered by AEC and I think B&C) . . . > be used on the BACK side of the panel. This way, > the hole in the panel for the keyway engagement > washer can be under a switch labeling placard . . . > or be so shallow that it does not penetrate the > panel. This allows one to have them above, below > or even changed after initial installation > causes one to discover the need to change it. > > [img]cid:.0[/img] > > Speaking of 'conventions' . . . you'll note > that the panel tab and keyway tabs are on > the same side of this locking ring. But > I've seen them on opposite sides too. > > So the premise of this tread is correct, there > are no industry-wide "conventions" for marking, > functional orientation, or installation of > switches. There ARE standards . . . many of > them mil-specs that speak to widely adopted > configurations. But it's a free-market decision > by designers and manufacturers as to how > their particular product comes into the > marketplace. In the case of switches, > one would do well not to stray far from > what the majority of your competitors are > doing . . . a Croatian market street > vendor will find himself at a decided > disadvantage hawking wares in Swaheli. > > Bob . . . Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332453#332453 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:17 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Toggle switch keyway convention: up vs. down From: "roee" Thanks Bob et al for the responses. I figured that would probably be the case -- the keyway up recommendation in the AEC being for some historical reasons and nothing more. Glad to have that confirmed. So for my panel I think I will go with keyway down for switches, as that does seem to be the more common convention in the mil specs and industry-wide. Just a couple of general comments on other points raised in the responses: In cases where the choice is technically arbitrary, I do think that there's value in following standard conventions in that it helps minimize possible confusion during assembly and future maintenance. All things being equal, where an industry-wide convention exists, whether formal or informal / de facto (e.g. keyway down, I think we've now established), then that would be the default first choice. Barring that, defining and adhering to a convention for the design (e.g. either all keyway down or all keyway up for the entire aircraft) would be the next best thing. And finally, having a mix-and-match hodge-podge throughout would be the least desirable, though granted, occasional well-justified exceptions to a convention may still exist. It also behooves us, when possible, to select components during the design phase that adhere to industry standards and conventions. Doing this maximizes our ability to source spare parts in the future, including drop-in compatible products from alternate sources. And for that reason, as has been pointed out, it also behooves manufacturers to design their products in adherence to such standards and conventions, as they make them more appealing to us in our component selection. We've seen that not all switch (and CB) manufacturers and product lines meet that criteria, and I would factor that into my component selection process. Thanks again, -Roee Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332454#332454 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:44 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Toggle switch keyway convention: up vs. down From: "roee" This appears to be a duplicate thread, the above posting being a response to this original thread: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=79809 The message above has been re-posted to the original thread, and additional subsequent messages have been posted there. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332455#332455 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:51 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Need help with wiring LR3C-14 regulator & LED Lo Volt Wn From: "rparigoris" Hi Howard I too have a LR3c on my Rotax 914 Europa that I chose to use a LED for low voltage warning. For starters, follow Bobs advise using this layout to prevent LED from glowing when there is high enough voltage: http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=79802 Another problem is will you be able to get information you desire from your LED during daylight operations with sunlight shining down on your LED? You may be disappointed. The stupid simple lamp as supplied by B+C works pretty good in sunlight. I fooled with an awful lot of LEDs. Many don't work well in sunlight. I purchased some pretty nice sunlight visible LEDs panel mount black bezel LEDs from allied and was at best disappointed. I ended up after several other disappointments mutilating the bezel mount LED and installing LEDs purchased from Best Hong Kong which gave acceptable performance. You can have a look at page 2: http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=27305&g2_page=2 and page 3: http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=27305&g2_page=3 For all the LEDs I have fooled with, Pep boys are kinda nice, plenty bright and especial long with small flange. You best purchase a better quality resistor and solder it better than they do however. Also have a look at their Quad LEDs: http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=78683 and wide angle LEDs: http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=78681 Have fun Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332456#332456 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:59 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: AeroElectric-List: Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete AeroElectric-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. 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The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all AeroElectric-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the AeroElectric-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * AeroElectric-List.FAQ - Latest version of the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?AeroElectric ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. AeroElectric-List Policy Statement The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:25 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: AeroElectric-List: Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. AeroElectric-List Policy Statement The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.