Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:06 AM - Re: Need help with wiring LR3C-14 regulator & LED Lo Volt Wn (plevyakh)
2. 12:03 PM - Where to hook voltage sense wire (rvg8tor)
3. 12:33 PM - Re: Where to hook voltage sense wire (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 04:47 PM - Need help in reviewing Z10/8 arch for dual Lightspeed ign. (plevyakh)
5. 04:51 PM - Adding a 12 pound cord to a 12V cordless drill. (rparigoris)
6. 05:18 PM - Non-passive failure, Fuse link allegator clip (rparigoris)
7. 05:22 PM - Re: Adding a 12 pound cord to a 12V cordless drill. (earl_schroeder@juno.com)
8. 07:40 PM - Re: Need help in reviewing Z10/8 arch for dual Lightspeed ign. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 09:29 PM - Re: Need help in reviewing Z10/8 arch for dual Lightspeed ign. (Jeff B.)
10. 10:09 PM - Re: Need help in reviewing Z10/8 arch for dual Lightspeed ign. (Don)
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| Subject: | Re: Need help with wiring LR3C-14 regulator & LED Lo |
Volt Wn
rparigoris wrote:
> Hi Howard
>
> I too have a LR3c on my Rotax 914 Europa that I chose to use a LED for low voltage
warning.
>
> For starters, follow Bobs advise using this layout to prevent LED from glowing
when there is high enough voltage:
> http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=79802
>
> Ron Parigoris
Ron,
Thanks for the information. I took your recommendation and switched to a simple
LED in my schematic. I'll be posting my entire electrical system schematic
today for forum input and review.
Thanks again!
Howard
--------
Howard Plevyak
GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio
hplevyak@mac.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332896#332896
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| Subject: | Where to hook voltage sense wire |
I have just powered up my panel and I have two EFIS units that talk to each other
(Dynon 180 and a 10A), I was putting the 10A on the EMS page and noticed that
the voltage reported on it was 13.4 V and the voltage on the D180 (which is
the box with the EMS) was showing 12.8 V. I have things powered with a power
supply putting out 13.8 volts and the battery is out of the loop. I will have
to run down why this is from Dynon but it got me to thinking
Since there is a voltage drop when the power flows from the main bus to the E-Bus
through the diode, I wonder where the best place for voltage sensing wire should
be, since it will activate on a lower voltage from the main bus.
Right now I have the Low Voltage light and sense wire on the same breaker on the
main bus which gets the highest voltage, the D180 is on the E-bus so its power
is going through the E-bus diode. I am not sure if this is why I see the voltage
difference between the two displays, I kind of think not because the 10A
when on the EMS page should just be repeating what is on the D180 EMS.
But all this begs the question is there a "Best" location for a standby alternator
regulator to monitor the system voltage? Main bus or E-bus?
--------
Mike "Nemo" Elliott
RV-8A QB (Fuselage)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332925#332925
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| Subject: | Re: Where to hook voltage sense wire |
At 01:58 PM 3/6/2011, you wrote:
>
>I have just powered up my panel and I have two EFIS units that talk
>to each other (Dynon 180 and a 10A), I was putting the 10A on the
>EMS page and noticed that the voltage reported on it was 13.4 V and
>the voltage on the D180 (which is the box with the EMS) was showing
>12.8 V. I have things powered with a power supply putting out 13.8
>volts and the battery is out of the loop. I will have to run down
>why this is from Dynon but it got me to thinking
>
>Since there is a voltage drop when the power flows from the main bus
>to the E-Bus through the diode, I wonder where the best place for
>voltage sensing wire should be, since it will activate on a lower
>voltage from the main bus.
Can you disable/work-around on the low votlage warning
for the device powered from the e-bus? Normally, one
low voltage warning system suffices.
>Right now I have the Low Voltage light and sense wire on the same
>breaker on the main bus which gets the highest voltage, the D180 is
>on the E-bus so its power is going through the E-bus diode. I am
>not sure if this is why I see the voltage difference between the two
>displays, I kind of think not because the 10A when on the EMS page
>should just be repeating what is on the D180 EMS.
>
>But all this begs the question is there a "Best" location for a
>standby alternator regulator to monitor the system voltage? Main bus or E-bus?
Which z-figure are you using? If Z-13/8, the
rectifier/regulator gets it's voltage sense
info from the system it's powering. That
would be true also for any other auxiliary
engine driven power source.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
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| Subject: | Need help in reviewing Z10/8 arch for dual Lightspeed |
ign.
Folks,
I've made up my electrical system plan and sure would appreciate some fresh eyes
and input. I'm an electrical sys neophyte....but trying hard to get smarter
and not do anything dumb. Ive read the AEC and started with a Z10/8 architecture
as my base.
Heres my GlaStar mission profile:
- Cross country IFR capable airplane that enables me to do over water flying down
the Bahama island chain, and reach deep northern Canada backcountry strips
and lakes for camping and fishing. I plan on doing some serious cross country
flying.
Some challenges I'm still scratching my head over include:
1) How best to wire the dual Lightspeed electronic ignitions to ensure they see
higher than 8.5V during engine start to minimize chance of starter kickback.
I'm using a Skytec 149-12LS starter (PMG) which has the high current draw at
start. Should I move both Lightspeed ignitions to a Brownout Battery Bus?
2) My batteries are also located in the tailcone due to W&B needs with about a
12ft run aft of the firewall. I estimated the starter would see about 10.3V after
losses. Does this sound right?
3) How best to wire my dual Grand Rapids EFIS/AHRS and the Engine Info System
(EIS 4000) to enable them to be ON during engine start. I want the EIS on to
monitor engine vitals (oil pressure). For the EFIS/AHRSit can take up to two
minutes to align the AHRS, and I'd prefer not to burn gas, make noise, and blow
stuff around while I wait for alignment. Id like everything ready, checklist
complete up to the point of "ignition", then start up, and taxi away. Im
considering moving the 2nd EFIS/AHRS to the Endurance bus as well, or a Brownout
Battery Bus.
4) Overall does the wiring schematic make sense? What mistakes did I make? Can
it be simplified?
I've attached two versions of the architecture. One is printable (4 pages) to
read, and the other screen viewable. Ive also attached my electrical bus load
analysis.
Thanks in advance for any inputs!
Howard
--------
Howard Plevyak
GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio
hplevyak@mac.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332972#332972
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/glastar_electrical_load_analysis_6mar2011_108.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/printable_glastar_schematic_v0_6mar2011_for_review_689.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/glastar_schematic_v0_6mar2011_for_review_172.pdf
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| Subject: | Adding a 12 pound cord to a 12V cordless drill. |
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=87399
Adding a 12 pound cord to a 12V cordless drill.
I have been working on outfitting trailers for a solar charging station trailer
project that has the trailers scattered apart by at least a few hundred feet.
It is far easier to carry around a 12 pound line cord than it is to try and run
a few hundred feet of extension cord or move a ton and a half trailer to were
the power is.
This model Dewalt cordless drill comes with NiCad batteries that are somewhere
around 2000 to 2200 mAs and 12 volts.
We purchased a NiMh aftermarket replacement that comes in at 3000 mAs. It's a pain
running back and forth to a charger with now only two battery packs. It's
true that three packs that are now retired were not new, hard use didn't do them
any good.
Anyway we grabbed some fairly flexable well insulated round wire and tied the hot,
neutral and ground together and used one each to the posative and negative
of a ~ 5,000 to 8,000 mA (realistic output under drill load pulled down to 12.1
volts (approx 50%)) lead acid battery, using the carcus of one of the dead
packs to get power to the drill. FYI, this Harbor Freight jump start pack has
the battery marked at 17aH, but with a 330 mA load, it nets out at only 12,000
mAs (12aH).
Bottom line is it works a treat! Thus far a full day of use has not run battery
down.
To tweak performance just a little, thicker wire could be used.
Yellow pack to the left of drill is NiCad pack.
Black pack below the NiCad pack is aftermarket NiMh pack.
Ron Parigoris
Y11-03-06
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332974#332974
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| Subject: | Non-passive failure, Fuse link allegator clip |
Video:
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=87396
Double click picture to play
Working on the Solar powered trailer charging station project, we discovered a
situation that needed to be addressed.
Each trailer services forty 17aH lead acid batteries. Each battery pack has a low
voltage cutoff that cuts power to the load when the battery reaches 12.1 volts.
The problem we discovered is since the charger charges through the low voltage
cutoff, if the battery were to sit and fall below 12.1 volts you would not be
able to charge the battery.
We needed a stupid, simple, cheap, water and dirt resistant of bypassing the low
voltage cutoff to charge a battery that gets below 12.1 volts.
The answer we selected is cheap 12 " long alligator clip from Hosfelt electronics
(think 27 gage wire) soldered to a leftover piece of ~ 18 gage wire that already
has a ring terminal on it.
Resolution is the alligator clip is located in a easy enough to access location
where it can be clipped to a PIDG terminal to bypass low voltage.
Since it is connected direct to the hot side of the battery its a good idea to
give it some protection.
Hence fuse link alligator clip. Many hundreds needed on first run.
Funny thing, after we tested the Fuse link alligator clip and burned it out, it
somehow ended up on the bench. I needed a short alligator clip a few days later
and picked it up figuring it was the good half of the one I cut in half for
the test. Ha ha ha, strip, strip, strip, no copper to be found anywhere!
Ron Parigoris
Y11-03-06
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332982#332982
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| Subject: | Re: Adding a 12 pound cord to a 12V cordless drill. |
Ahhhh, done in the spirit of a TRUE homebuilder!
I like it! Earl
do not archive
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "rparigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Adding a 12 pound cord to a 12V cordless drill.
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=87399
Adding a 12 pound cord to a 12V cordless drill.
I have been working on outfitting trailers for a solar charging station trailer
project that has the trailers scattered apart by at least a few hundred feet.
It is far easier to carry around a 12 pound line cord than it is to try and run
a few hundred feet of extension cord or move a ton and a half trailer to were
the power is.
This model Dewalt cordless drill comes with NiCad batteries that are somewhere
around 2000 to 2200 mAs and 12 volts.
We purchased a NiMh aftermarket replacement that comes in at 3000 mAs. It's a pain
running back and forth to a charger with now only two battery packs. It's
true that three packs that are now retired were not new, hard use didn't do them
any good.
Anyway we grabbed some fairly flexable well insulated round wire and tied the hot,
neutral and ground together and used one each to the posative and negative
of a ~ 5,000 to 8,000 mA (realistic output under drill load pulled down to 12.1
volts (approx 50%)) lead acid battery, using the carcus of one of the dead
packs to get power to the drill. FYI, this Harbor Freight jump start pack has
the battery marked at 17aH, but with a 330 mA load, it nets out at only 12,000
mAs (12aH).
Bottom line is it works a treat! Thus far a full day of use has not run battery
down.
To tweak performance just a little, thicker wire could be used.
Yellow pack to the left of drill is NiCad pack.
Black pack below the NiCad pack is aftermarket NiMh pack.
Ron Parigoris
Y11-03-06
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332974#332974
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| Subject: | Re: Need help in reviewing Z10/8 arch for dual Lightspeed |
ign.
>Some challenges I'm still scratching my head over include:
>
>1) How best to wire the dual Lightspeed
>electronic ignitions to ensure they see higher
>than 8.5V during engine start to minimize chance of starter kickback.
Turn the ignition switches on after you hit the
starter button. The 'brownout' lasts but 100 milliseconds
or so. Is the 8.5v number from Lightspeed? I believe the
ignition systems run at well under 8.5 volts.
??? Don't understand Ign #1 sparking cylinders 1&2 and #2
ignition sparking 3&4 ??????
>I'm using a Skytec 149-12LS starter (PMG) which
>has the high current draw at start. Should I
>move both Lightspeed ignitions to a Brownout Battery Bus?
No. I'd put one on a battery bus, the other on the
e-bus. If you were sparking all 4 cylinders with
EACH ignition system, then alternator-out ops would
call for turning one ignition OFF>
>2) My batteries are also located in the tailcone
>due to W&B needs with about a 12ft run aft of
>the firewall. I estimated the starter would see
>about 10.3V after losses. Does this sound right?
That's fine.
>3) How best to wire my dual Grand Rapids
>EFIS/AHRS and the Engine Info System (EIS 4000)
>to enable them to be ON during engine start. I
>want the EIS on to monitor engine vitals (oil
>pressure). For the EFIS/AHRSit can take up
>to two minutes to align the AHRS, and I'd prefer
>not to burn gas, make noise, and blow stuff around while I wait for alignment.
At engine idle? Don't you let things warm up a bit
before you drive off? I think there are plenty of
things on a well crafted check-list to soak up
2 minutes wile the AHRS gets up on its feet.
If you're charging off into the deep woods with this
airplane, battery maintenance is VERY high on the
list. I think I'd rather have a better payload and
one battery that's changed out often than two
batteries that need extra-ordinary attention.
> Id like everything ready, checklist
> complete up to the point of "ignition", then
> start up, and taxi away. Im considering
> moving the 2nd EFIS/AHRS to the Endurance bus
> as well, or a Brownout Battery Bus.
Simpler is ALWAYS better if you can configure an
operating procedure that accommodates the special
needs for some accessories.
>4) Overall does the wiring schematic make
>sense? What mistakes did I make? Can it be simplified?
Yes . . . none that I can see beyond questions cited above . . . and yes.
>I've attached two versions of the
>architecture. One is printable (4 pages) to
>read, and the other screen viewable. Ive
>also attached my electrical bus load analysis.
Nice job
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Need help in reviewing Z10/8 arch for dual Lightspeed |
ign.
This is a good time to introduce myself to the list. I'm doing almost this
same configuration to an RV-6A -- with batteries up front, of course. It
was bought flying a few years ago by my father-in-law so he isn't the
builder. He wants to replace the steam gauges and mags and move to an all
electric airplane. It will have dual GRT (one HX, one HS) screens, and EIS
4000, and dual LSE Plasma III ignitions. I'm just the electrical designer
since it is his plane, though since they now live closer to me, maybe I wil
l
get to fly it occasionally!
Mission: Day/Night VFR, future path to IFR when pilots get rated and plane
gets the right GPS.
Our plan was to use something like Z13/8 with a small SLA (alarm system
type, 4 ~ 5AH) battery as an AUX battery, diode connected to the main
battery bus. (Incidentally, I see in Z10, Z30, and Z35 no diode on the AUX
battery line -- why is it not needed? On Z10 I see that it powers the whol
e
E-bus, but not on Z30 & Z35.) This aux battery would only support one LSE
ignition ("primary -- #1") and the GRT system during cranking. I hadn't
even thought about kickback -- this was originally for brownout on the
GRTs. If it is a demonstrable and catastrophic failure mode, why is it
still allowed to exist? In my simplified view of things, I think the fix
would look like this: if input voltage too low, then no spark trigger
allowed.
For ignition controls, my FIL wants to use toggle switches with #1 having
momentary starter engagement at full up position, rather than a separate
starter button.
Other questions for the list: Does the inclusion of the limited mission,
small aux battery justify its weight? What would be a simpler configuratio
n
with similar benefits?
-Jeff-
Albuquerque, NM
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 8:35 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>
> Some challenges I'm still scratching my head over include:
>>
>> 1) How best to wire the dual Lightspeed electronic ignitions to ensure
>> they see higher than 8.5V during engine start to minimize chance of star
ter
>> kickback.
>>
>
> Turn the ignition switches on after you hit the
> starter button. The 'brownout' lasts but 100 milliseconds
> or so. Is the 8.5v number from Lightspeed? I believe the
> ignition systems run at well under 8.5 volts.
>
> ??? Don't understand Ign #1 sparking cylinders 1&2 and #2
> ignition sparking 3&4 ??????
>
>
> I'm using a Skytec 149-12LS starter (PMG) which has the high current dra
w
>> at start. Should I move both Lightspeed ignitions to a Brownout Batter
y
>> Bus?
>>
>
> No. I'd put one on a battery bus, the other on the
> e-bus. If you were sparking all 4 cylinders with
> EACH ignition system, then alternator-out ops would
> call for turning one ignition OFF>
>
>
> 2) My batteries are also located in the tailcone due to W&B needs with
>> about a 12ft run aft of the firewall. I estimated the starter would see
>> about 10.3V after losses. Does this sound right?
>>
>
> That's fine.
>
>
> 3) How best to wire my dual Grand Rapids EFIS/AHRS and the Engine Info
>> System (EIS 4000) to enable them to be ON during engine start. I want
the
>> EIS on to monitor engine vitals (oil pressure). For the EFIS/AHRS=85it
can
>> take up to two minutes to align the AHRS, and I'd prefer not to burn gas
,
>> make noise, and blow stuff around while I wait for alignment.
>>
>
> At engine idle? Don't you let things warm up a bit
> before you drive off? I think there are plenty of
> things on a well crafted check-list to soak up
> 2 minutes wile the AHRS gets up on its feet.
>
> If you're charging off into the deep woods with this
> airplane, battery maintenance is VERY high on the
> list. I think I'd rather have a better payload and
> one battery that's changed out often than two
> batteries that need extra-ordinary attention.
>
>
> I=92d like everything ready, checklist complete up to the point of
>> "ignition", then start up, and taxi away. I=92m considering moving the
2nd
>> EFIS/AHRS to the Endurance bus as well, or a Brownout Battery Bus.
>>
>
> Simpler is ALWAYS better if you can configure an
> operating procedure that accommodates the special
> needs for some accessories.
>
>
> 4) Overall does the wiring schematic make sense? What mistakes did I
>> make? Can it be simplified?
>>
>
> Yes . . . none that I can see beyond questions cited above . . . and
> yes.
>
>
> I've attached two versions of the architecture. One is printable (4
>> pages) to read, and the other screen viewable. I=92ve also attached my
>> electrical bus load analysis.
>>
>
> Nice job
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Need help in reviewing Z10/8 arch for dual Lightspeed |
ign.
It might be worth while to try PMAGS and get the GRTs with internal backup
batteries. This eliminates all of your concerns. I run a similar system
except I have AFS instead of GRT.
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff B.
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need help in reviewing Z10/8 arch for dual
Lightspeed ign.
This is a good time to introduce myself to the list. I'm doing almost this
same configuration to an RV-6A -- with batteries up front, of course. It
was bought flying a few years ago by my father-in-law so he isn't the
builder. He wants to replace the steam gauges and mags and move to an all
electric airplane. It will have dual GRT (one HX, one HS) screens, and EIS
4000, and dual LSE Plasma III ignitions. I'm just the electrical designer
since it is his plane, though since they now live closer to me, maybe I will
get to fly it occasionally!
Mission: Day/Night VFR, future path to IFR when pilots get rated and plane
gets the right GPS.
Our plan was to use something like Z13/8 with a small SLA (alarm system
type, 4 ~ 5AH) battery as an AUX battery, diode connected to the main
battery bus. (Incidentally, I see in Z10, Z30, and Z35 no diode on the AUX
battery line -- why is it not needed? On Z10 I see that it powers the whole
E-bus, but not on Z30 & Z35.) This aux battery would only support one LSE
ignition ("primary -- #1") and the GRT system during cranking. I hadn't
even thought about kickback -- this was originally for brownout on the GRTs.
If it is a demonstrable and catastrophic failure mode, why is it still
allowed to exist? In my simplified view of things, I think the fix would
look like this: if input voltage too low, then no spark trigger allowed.
For ignition controls, my FIL wants to use toggle switches with #1 having
momentary starter engagement at full up position, rather than a separate
starter button.
Other questions for the list: Does the inclusion of the limited mission,
small aux battery justify its weight? What would be a simpler configuration
with similar benefits?
-Jeff-
Albuquerque, NM
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 8:35 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Some challenges I'm still scratching my head over include:
1) How best to wire the dual Lightspeed electronic ignitions to ensure they
see higher than 8.5V during engine start to minimize chance of starter
kickback.
Turn the ignition switches on after you hit the
starter button. The 'brownout' lasts but 100 milliseconds
or so. Is the 8.5v number from Lightspeed? I believe the
ignition systems run at well under 8.5 volts.
??? Don't understand Ign #1 sparking cylinders 1&2 and #2
ignition sparking 3&4 ??????
I'm using a Skytec 149-12LS starter (PMG) which has the high current draw at
start. Should I move both Lightspeed ignitions to a Brownout Battery Bus?
No. I'd put one on a battery bus, the other on the
e-bus. If you were sparking all 4 cylinders with
EACH ignition system, then alternator-out ops would
call for turning one ignition OFF>
2) My batteries are also located in the tailcone due to W&B needs with about
a 12ft run aft of the firewall. I estimated the starter would see about
10.3V after losses. Does this sound right?
That's fine.
3) How best to wire my dual Grand Rapids EFIS/AHRS and the Engine Info
System (EIS 4000) to enable them to be ON during engine start. I want the
EIS on to monitor engine vitals (oil pressure). For the EFIS/AHRS.it can
take up to two minutes to align the AHRS, and I'd prefer not to burn gas,
make noise, and blow stuff around while I wait for alignment.
At engine idle? Don't you let things warm up a bit
before you drive off? I think there are plenty of
things on a well crafted check-list to soak up
2 minutes wile the AHRS gets up on its feet.
If you're charging off into the deep woods with this
airplane, battery maintenance is VERY high on the
list. I think I'd rather have a better payload and
one battery that's changed out often than two
batteries that need extra-ordinary attention.
I'd like everything ready, checklist complete up to the point of
"ignition", then start up, and taxi away. I'm considering moving the 2nd
EFIS/AHRS to the Endurance bus as well, or a Brownout Battery Bus.
Simpler is ALWAYS better if you can configure an
operating procedure that accommodates the special
needs for some accessories.
4) Overall does the wiring schematic make sense? What mistakes did I make?
Can it be simplified?
Yes . . . none that I can see beyond questions cited above . . . and yes.
I've attached two versions of the architecture. One is printable (4 pages)
to read, and the other screen viewable. I've also attached my electrical
bus load analysis.
Nice job
Bob . . .
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