Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:44 AM - Re: Current draw for lighting Buss (Bill Watson)
2. 06:03 AM - Re: Current draw for lighting Buss (Tim Olson)
3. 07:42 AM - Re: Current draw for lighting Buss (Bill Watson)
4. 07:42 AM - Re: Current draw for lighting Buss (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:54 AM - Re: Current draw for lighting Buss (MLWynn@aol.com)
6. 08:25 AM - Re: Power for Checking Systems Out on the Ground (Jeff Page)
7. 07:56 PM - Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II (DEAN PSIROPOULOS)
8. 08:58 PM - Re: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II (Ed Holyoke)
9. 09:04 PM - Re: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II (fedico94@mchsi.com)
10. 09:36 PM - Re: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II (fedico94@mchsi.com)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Current draw for lighting Buss |
I'd like to piggy back on this question by asking how people have set
these 3 units up for dimming? I have a Perihelion dimmer in place but
no plan for applying it to these 3 units. I just couldn't figure out
what to do.
Bill "praying to the spring gods of warm painting weather" Watson
> Hi all,
> I am wiring my panel. It includes a PMA 8000 audio panel, SL30,
> Garmin 430W and 327 transponder. Each has a pin to control the
> brightness on a separate lighting buss. I was going to use B&C's
> dimmer circuit. What I can't seem to find is what the current draw
> for lighting is likely to be. The specific question is, which B&C
> dimmer do I need.
> Anyone know the answer?
> Regards,
> Michael Wynn
> RV 8 Wiring
> San Ramon, CA
>
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Current draw for lighting Buss |
Aren't all or most of those auto-dimming? I think you should verify that fe
ature and only manual dim the ones that can't.
Most things can.
Tim
On Mar 17, 2011, at 6:37 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> I'd like to piggy back on this question by asking how people have set thes
e 3 units up for dimming? I have a Perihelion dimmer in place but no plan f
or applying it to these 3 units. I just couldn't figure out what to do.
>
> Bill "praying to the spring gods of warm painting weather" Watson
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am wiring my panel. It includes a PMA 8000 audio panel, SL30, Garmin 4
30W and 327 transponder. Each has a pin to control the brightness on a sepa
rate lighting buss. I was going to use B&C's dimmer circuit. What I can't s
eem to find is what the current draw for lighting is likely to be. The spec
ific question is, which B&C dimmer do I need.
>>
>> Anyone know the answer?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Michael Wynn
>> RV 8 Wiring
>> San Ramon, CA
>>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Current draw for lighting Buss |
That's what I was sort of thinking but didn't finish the investigation.
Autodimming is good and I won't mind have an unused dimmer. Right now,
I'm just dimming my Honeywell lit rockers and indicators.
I assume that for autodimming, no physical installation action is
required? Just turn it on (configure it) and it figures out what to do.
> Aren't all or most of those auto-dimming? I think you should verify
> that feature and only manual dim the ones that can't.
> Most things can.
> Tim
>
>
> On Mar 17, 2011, at 6:37 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com
> <mailto:Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>> wrote:
>
>> I'd like to piggy back on this question by asking how people have set
>> these 3 units up for dimming? I have a Perihelion dimmer in place
>> but no plan for applying it to these 3 units. I just couldn't figure
>> out what to do.
>>
>> Bill "praying to the spring gods of warm painting weather" Watson
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I am wiring my panel. It includes a PMA 8000 audio panel, SL30,
>>> Garmin 430W and 327 transponder. Each has a pin to control the
>>> brightness on a separate lighting buss. I was going to use B&C's
>>> dimmer circuit. What I can't seem to find is what the current draw
>>> for lighting is likely to be. The specific question is, which B&C
>>> dimmer do I need.
>>> Anyone know the answer?
>>>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Current draw for lighting Buss |
At 01:58 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I am wiring my panel. It includes a PMA 8000 audio panel, SL30,
>Garmin 430W and 327 transponder. Each has a pin to control the
>brightness on a separate lighting buss. I was going to use B&C's
>dimmer circuit. What I can't seem to find is what the current draw
>for lighting is likely to be. The specific question is, which B&C
>dimmer do I need.
>
>Anyone know the answer?
In days of yore, the dimmer input line to a panel mounted
accessory was a direct power supply to incandescent lamps
scattered about the panel of the accessory. The dimmer
input did indeed have a small but significant POWER
requirement. It was this lighting philosophy that gave rise
to dimmer products designed to handle power . . . the largest
of the B&C dimmers would handle a panel full of post lights
and a center stack stuffed with radios. The 1960 Cessna
310 had two (count 'em) TWO fat rheostats on the center
console for panel dimming. Under some lighting conditions
these were so hot that you could not touch the panel
around the knob that controlled the rheostat.
Modern lighting technologies are all over the map. Florescent,
electro-luminescent, LED, gas discharge, etc . . . To further
complicate matters, they do not all share the same dimming
curves (apparent brightness versus applied voltage). The
transition to mixed technology illumination was well under
way by the 80's. I wrote a specification for the Gates-Piaggio
180 for a 3 channel dimmer controlled by one knob but with
independently adjustable dimming curves to accommodate
a variety of technologies.
The installation manual for each of these accessories should
call out the current draw for the dimmer controls. It may
well be that these control pins do not supply power to
the lighting components but only send a signal to the
internal power supply that services those components.
In this case, the control current may be measured in
a handful of milliamps. Further, the dimming characteristics
may be tailored to the legacy incandescent curve.
Long non-answer. The short answer is you'll have to research
the installation data that should be included in documents
supplied with the accessories. It's a SURE bet that
dimmer inputs of any stripe will not be damaged by
a linearly variable dimmer control input. It probably
won't be damaged by duty-cycle switched dimmers but the
switching frequency of the duty-cycle dimmer might
produce strange behaviors of the dimming function.
You should check this out with the manufacture's
field services folks or some knowledgeable installer.
Has anyone on the List resolved these questions?
Bob . . .
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Current draw for lighting Buss |
As for autodimming, yes they all do this. A friend with a 430 tells me
that it autodims so dim that he can't see it. He goes through the menu to
adjust the brightness manually every time he flies at night. Seemed like
during construction was the best time to address the issue.
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Wiring
San Ramon, CA
In a message dated 3/17/2011 7:43:14 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
Mauledriver@nc.rr.com writes:
That's what I was sort of thinking but didn't finish the investigation.
Autodimming is good and I won't mind have an unused dimmer. Right now, I'm
just dimming my Honeywell lit rockers and indicators.
I assume that for autodimming, no physical installation action is
required? Just turn it on (configure it) and it figures out what to do.
Aren't all or most of those auto-dimming? I think you should verify that
feature and only manual dim the ones that can't.
Most things can.
Tim
On Mar 17, 2011, at 6:37 AM, Bill Watson <_Mauledriver@nc.rr.com_
(mailto:Mauledriver@nc.rr.com) > wrote:
I'd like to piggy back on this question by asking how people have set
these 3 units up for dimming? I have a Perihelion dimmer in place but no plan
for applying it to these 3 units. I just couldn't figure out what to do.
Bill "praying to the spring gods of warm painting weather" Watson
Hi all,
I am wiring my panel. It includes a PMA 8000 audio panel, SL30, Garmin
430W and 327 transponder. Each has a pin to control the brightness on a
separate lighting buss. I was going to use B&C's dimmer circuit. What I can't
seem to find is what the current draw for lighting is likely to be. The
specific question is, which B&C dimmer do I need.
Anyone know the answer?
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Power for Checking Systems Out on the Ground |
>> http://cgi.ebay.ca/13-5V-DC-25-8A-350W-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-/150471439243?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2308cbf38b
>
> I used about a half dozen of various models in projects
> over the last two years. Got two of them on the bench right
> now. Just be careful when hooking these guys across batteries.
> Some of these products don't like to be reverse powered when
> their ac input power is removed. I use a fat schottky in
> series with the output to prevent tug-o-war issues. This
> means you might want to order the next higher voltage
> next time . . . but there's one resistor you can change
> inside that will boost the output if necessary.
I don't plan on connecting it in parallel with a battery, but this is
an important point. I stuck a label on the power supply to remind me,
in case I get different ideas a few years from now. Thanks.
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
Message 7
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Subject: | Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II |
Klaus wants the hot wire to go to the battery directly in order to minimize
voltage sag at the brain box during starting. I have a Lightspeed Plasma
II+ that I originally intended to activate with the aircraft's key switch
(along with the single slick magneto that I have on the left side firing the
bottom plugs). Note that the Plasma II+ (and III+) have two separate wires
that work with the key switch made for airplane magnetos. You can't wire a
Plasma II into a standard aircraft (magneto grounding) key switch, it
doesn't have these extra wires. After I read about some failures of the
standard aircraft key switch I gave it some more thought and decided to
eliminate the key switch as a single point failure (why lose both ignition
systems with the failure of one switch).
I decided to leave the magneto on the key switch and wire the Lightspeed to
one of the terminals of the bussman six-fuse-block that serves as my battery
bus. The fuse block is behind the instrument panel and its common terminal
is connected to the Odyssey battery (on the engine side of the firewall)
through a 14 gauge wire and a 20 amp klixon breaker (in a box on the
firewall next to the battery to protect the 14 gauge wire). The Lightspeed
shielded wire goes from the battery bus fuse block to a "BAT" switch (a
toggle switch whose stem has to be pulled out of machined notches in the
case in order to turn it on or off) and from the BAT switch to the
Lightspeed brain box behind the instrument panel (the brain box ground is
connect to a forest of faston tabs on the firewall).
So yes, I did wire it to the battery but, the signal path goes from the
battery through the CB on the firewall, the 14 GA tefzel wire (unshielded),
the fuse block, the BAT switch and finally to the brain box!!!
Bottom line....2.5 years of flying bliss, the setup works fine and I've had
no problems whatsoever. I start the engine using the key switch (impulse
coupled magneto only). Once the engine is running I turn on the Lightspeed.
It works great with no kickback and, I can still turn the electronic
ignition off during the run-up to see how the magneto and bottom plugs are
working. I've also started using the Lightspeed only and had no trouble.
Like many of these things that we builders tend to fret over, this is one
that you should not worry about, different wiring schemes are not a big
deal. Wire it in and get that bird flying.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
2.5 years of flying fun
-------------------Original Message-------------------
Time: 09:35:35 PM PST US
From: fedico94@mchsi.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-12 and Plasma II ignition
I am building an RV-9A per Z-12 outline. The plane has one elctronic
ignition on the right going to the top cylinders and one Slick magneto on
the Left side.
The manufacturer of the electronic ignition insists that the rather thin
electrical wire (shelded cable) be attached directly to the battery. I am
questioning the advisability of this unless a fuse or CB placed at the
battery. Uncomfotable with this hot wire entering the fuselage and being
seperated from the battery bus. If the fuse is on the engine side I feel
less in control to replace the fuse or reset the CB. Could not find any
references on the this website. Would appreciate your thoughts on this
matter.
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II |
There is one other thing to think about before you go changing the way
Klaus has the wiring diagram laid out. As was mentioned in a thread a
while back, the Lightspeed box has a built in crowbar to protect itself
from an overvoltage event. That's why the wiring diagram shows a
pullable breaker as the only circuit protection device. If the internal
crowbar decides to unload on the system, the breaker pops and can be
reset after the errant alternator is offline. If there is a fuse in the
circuit, it will blow before the breaker does and you're SOL in terms of
getting the ignition running again until the fuse can be replaced.
If this one thin un-fused wire were to short to the airframe before the
breaker, it would likely burn right through and become un-shorted. In
the meantime, you'd be out one ignition. Best to be very careful in
routing and securing this wire and after that - don't worry about it.
Inspect it at annual and keep flying.
There was a case where some guy put 2 lightspeeds into a lancair and
wired them, as I understand it, through fuses which blew and caused a
forced landing. Think twice about failure modes before changing
manufacturers' wiring diagrams. Once you think it through, then wire it
as you see fit, but be sure you know why you made any changes.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
On 3/17/2011 7:52 PM, DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS"<dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
>
>
> Klaus wants the hot wire to go to the battery directly in order to minimize
> voltage sag at the brain box during starting. I have a Lightspeed Plasma
> II+ that I originally intended to activate with the aircraft's key switch
> (along with the single slick magneto that I have on the left side firing the
> bottom plugs). Note that the Plasma II+ (and III+) have two separate wires
> that work with the key switch made for airplane magnetos. You can't wire a
> Plasma II into a standard aircraft (magneto grounding) key switch, it
> doesn't have these extra wires. After I read about some failures of the
> standard aircraft key switch I gave it some more thought and decided to
> eliminate the key switch as a single point failure (why lose both ignition
> systems with the failure of one switch).
>
> I decided to leave the magneto on the key switch and wire the Lightspeed to
> one of the terminals of the bussman six-fuse-block that serves as my battery
> bus. The fuse block is behind the instrument panel and its common terminal
> is connected to the Odyssey battery (on the engine side of the firewall)
> through a 14 gauge wire and a 20 amp klixon breaker (in a box on the
> firewall next to the battery to protect the 14 gauge wire). The Lightspeed
> shielded wire goes from the battery bus fuse block to a "BAT" switch (a
> toggle switch whose stem has to be pulled out of machined notches in the
> case in order to turn it on or off) and from the BAT switch to the
> Lightspeed brain box behind the instrument panel (the brain box ground is
> connect to a forest of faston tabs on the firewall).
>
> So yes, I did wire it to the battery but, the signal path goes from the
> battery through the CB on the firewall, the 14 GA tefzel wire (unshielded),
> the fuse block, the BAT switch and finally to the brain box!!!
>
> Bottom line....2.5 years of flying bliss, the setup works fine and I've had
> no problems whatsoever. I start the engine using the key switch (impulse
> coupled magneto only). Once the engine is running I turn on the Lightspeed.
> It works great with no kickback and, I can still turn the electronic
> ignition off during the run-up to see how the magneto and bottom plugs are
> working. I've also started using the Lightspeed only and had no trouble.
>
> Like many of these things that we builders tend to fret over, this is one
> that you should not worry about, different wiring schemes are not a big
> deal. Wire it in and get that bird flying.
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> 2.5 years of flying fun
>
>
> -------------------Original Message-------------------
>
> Time: 09:35:35 PM PST US
> From: fedico94@mchsi.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-12 and Plasma II ignition
>
>
> I am building an RV-9A per Z-12 outline. The plane has one elctronic
> ignition on the right going to the top cylinders and one Slick magneto on
> the Left side.
>
> The manufacturer of the electronic ignition insists that the rather thin
> electrical wire (shelded cable) be attached directly to the battery. I am
> questioning the advisability of this unless a fuse or CB placed at the
> battery. Uncomfotable with this hot wire entering the fuselage and being
> seperated from the battery bus. If the fuse is on the engine side I feel
> less in control to replace the fuse or reset the CB. Could not find any
> references on the this website. Would appreciate your thoughts on this
> matter.
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II |
Thank you for your thoughts. So many details with the instrument panel.
----- Original Message -----
From: DEAN PSIROPOULOS <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
Sent: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 21:52:42 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II
Klaus wants the hot wire to go to the battery directly in order to minimize
voltage sag at the brain box during starting. I have a Lightspeed Plasma
II+ that I originally intended to activate with the aircraft's key switch
(along with the single slick magneto that I have on the left side firing the
bottom plugs). Note that the Plasma II+ (and III+) have two separate wires
that work with the key switch made for airplane magnetos. You can't wire a
Plasma II into a standard aircraft (magneto grounding) key switch, it
doesn't have these extra wires. After I read about some failures of the
standard aircraft key switch I gave it some more thought and decided to
eliminate the key switch as a single point failure (why lose both ignition
systems with the failure of one switch).
I decided to leave the magneto on the key switch and wire the Lightspeed to
one of the terminals of the bussman six-fuse-block that serves as my battery
bus. The fuse block is behind the instrument panel and its common terminal
is connected to the Odyssey battery (on the engine side of the firewall)
through a 14 gauge wire and a 20 amp klixon breaker (in a box on the
firewall next to the battery to protect the 14 gauge wire). The Lightspeed
shielded wire goes from the battery bus fuse block to a "BAT" switch (a
toggle switch whose stem has to be pulled out of machined notches in the
case in order to turn it on or off) and from the BAT switch to the
Lightspeed brain box behind the instrument panel (the brain box ground is
connect to a forest of faston tabs on the firewall).
So yes, I did wire it to the battery but, the signal path goes from the
battery through the CB on the firewall, the 14 GA tefzel wire (unshielded),
the fuse block, the BAT switch and finally to the brain box!!!
Bottom line....2.5 years of flying bliss, the setup works fine and I've had
no problems whatsoever. I start the engine using the key switch (impulse
coupled magneto only). Once the engine is running I turn on the Lightspeed.
It works great with no kickback and, I can still turn the electronic
ignition off during the run-up to see how the magneto and bottom plugs are
working. I've also started using the Lightspeed only and had no trouble.
Like many of these things that we builders tend to fret over, this is one
that you should not worry about, different wiring schemes are not a big
deal. Wire it in and get that bird flying.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
2.5 years of flying fun
-------------------Original Message-------------------
Time: 09:35:35 PM PST US
From: fedico94@mchsi.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-12 and Plasma II ignition
I am building an RV-9A per Z-12 outline. The plane has one elctronic
ignition on the right going to the top cylinders and one Slick magneto on
the Left side.
The manufacturer of the electronic ignition insists that the rather thin
electrical wire (shelded cable) be attached directly to the battery. I am
questioning the advisability of this unless a fuse or CB placed at the
battery. Uncomfotable with this hot wire entering the fuselage and being
seperated from the battery bus. If the fuse is on the engine side I feel
less in control to replace the fuse or reset the CB. Could not find any
references on the this website. Would appreciate your thoughts on this
matter.
Message 10
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|
Subject: | Re: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II |
Thank you for your insight. I enjoyed reading your email and found it to be a
big help
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Sent: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 22:54:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II
There is one other thing to think about before you go changing the way
Klaus has the wiring diagram laid out. As was mentioned in a thread a
while back, the Lightspeed box has a built in crowbar to protect itself
from an overvoltage event. That's why the wiring diagram shows a
pullable breaker as the only circuit protection device. If the internal
crowbar decides to unload on the system, the breaker pops and can be
reset after the errant alternator is offline. If there is a fuse in the
circuit, it will blow before the breaker does and you're SOL in terms of
getting the ignition running again until the fuse can be replaced.
If this one thin un-fused wire were to short to the airframe before the
breaker, it would likely burn right through and become un-shorted. In
the meantime, you'd be out one ignition. Best to be very careful in
routing and securing this wire and after that - don't worry about it.
Inspect it at annual and keep flying.
There was a case where some guy put 2 lightspeeds into a lancair and
wired them, as I understand it, through fuses which blew and caused a
forced landing. Think twice about failure modes before changing
manufacturers' wiring diagrams. Once you think it through, then wire it
as you see fit, but be sure you know why you made any changes.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
On 3/17/2011 7:52 PM, DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS"<dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
>
>
> Klaus wants the hot wire to go to the battery directly in order to minimize
> voltage sag at the brain box during starting. I have a Lightspeed Plasma
> II+ that I originally intended to activate with the aircraft's key switch
> (along with the single slick magneto that I have on the left side firing the
> bottom plugs). Note that the Plasma II+ (and III+) have two separate wires
> that work with the key switch made for airplane magnetos. You can't wire a
> Plasma II into a standard aircraft (magneto grounding) key switch, it
> doesn't have these extra wires. After I read about some failures of the
> standard aircraft key switch I gave it some more thought and decided to
> eliminate the key switch as a single point failure (why lose both ignition
> systems with the failure of one switch).
>
> I decided to leave the magneto on the key switch and wire the Lightspeed to
> one of the terminals of the bussman six-fuse-block that serves as my battery
> bus. The fuse block is behind the instrument panel and its common terminal
> is connected to the Odyssey battery (on the engine side of the firewall)
> through a 14 gauge wire and a 20 amp klixon breaker (in a box on the
> firewall next to the battery to protect the 14 gauge wire). The Lightspeed
> shielded wire goes from the battery bus fuse block to a "BAT" switch (a
> toggle switch whose stem has to be pulled out of machined notches in the
> case in order to turn it on or off) and from the BAT switch to the
> Lightspeed brain box behind the instrument panel (the brain box ground is
> connect to a forest of faston tabs on the firewall).
>
> So yes, I did wire it to the battery but, the signal path goes from the
> battery through the CB on the firewall, the 14 GA tefzel wire (unshielded),
> the fuse block, the BAT switch and finally to the brain box!!!
>
> Bottom line....2.5 years of flying bliss, the setup works fine and I've had
> no problems whatsoever. I start the engine using the key switch (impulse
> coupled magneto only). Once the engine is running I turn on the Lightspeed.
> It works great with no kickback and, I can still turn the electronic
> ignition off during the run-up to see how the magneto and bottom plugs are
> working. I've also started using the Lightspeed only and had no trouble.
>
> Like many of these things that we builders tend to fret over, this is one
> that you should not worry about, different wiring schemes are not a big
> deal. Wire it in and get that bird flying.
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> 2.5 years of flying fun
>
>
> -------------------Original Message-------------------
>
> Time: 09:35:35 PM PST US
> From: fedico94@mchsi.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-12 and Plasma II ignition
>
>
> I am building an RV-9A per Z-12 outline. The plane has one elctronic
> ignition on the right going to the top cylinders and one Slick magneto on
> the Left side.
>
> The manufacturer of the electronic ignition insists that the rather thin
> electrical wire (shelded cable) be attached directly to the battery. I am
> questioning the advisability of this unless a fuse or CB placed at the
> battery. Uncomfotable with this hot wire entering the fuselage and being
> seperated from the battery bus. If the fuse is on the engine side I feel
> less in control to replace the fuse or reset the CB. Could not find any
> references on the this website. Would appreciate your thoughts on this
> matter.
>
>
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