---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/18/11: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:47 AM - Re: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II () 2. 06:47 AM - Re: Current draw for lighting Buss (Jeff Page) 3. 08:58 AM - Re: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 09:50 AM - Re: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II (fedico94@mchsi.com) 5. 09:54 AM - Re: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II (fedico94@mchsi.com) 6. 10:39 AM - Re: Current draw for lighting Buss (Eric M. Jones) 7. 10:52 AM - Re: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II () 8. 11:44 AM - Re: Toggle switch keyways redux (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 12:46 PM - Re: Transient_voltage_suppression_diode failure (Eric M. Jones) 10. 02:01 PM - Re: Re: Transient_voltage_suppression_diode failure () 11. 03:27 PM - Re: Re: Current draw for lighting Buss (MLWynn@aol.com) 12. 03:51 PM - Re: Transient_voltage_suppression_diode failure (Eric M. Jones) 13. 06:09 PM - Re: Re: Current draw for lighting Buss (tim2542@sbcglobal.net) 14. 10:03 PM - Re: Re: Toggle switch keyways redux (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:15 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II From: I'm with Klaus and Ed, If Klaus doesnt have enough faith in the system to wire it to the bus, neither do I. Hardwire that sucker. If it smokes and you're still around, send it back to him. His problem. I use the switch style breaker right on the panel so it's an easy hookup. I also use the optional aux 5 amp battery and mounted it under the tunnel in my Legacy. Big ole' red hooded panic switch on the panel to change over to battery power. I chickened out on the dual system and pulled one in favor of one mag. I had a Lancair test pilot in that experienced two total failures on dual EI systems. Too each his own. Dont forget to check the amperage on the auxiliary battery over some interval. Other than that the thing doesn't skip a beat. The box is supposed to put out a signal for an RPM hookup, but even with Klaus's help, I never got it working. Bought the cheapo transducer from Vans and it works fine. Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fedico94@mchsi.com Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 12:30 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II Thank you for your insight. I enjoyed reading your email and found it to be a big help ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Holyoke Sent: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 22:54:38 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II There is one other thing to think about before you go changing the way Klaus has the wiring diagram laid out. As was mentioned in a thread a while back, the Lightspeed box has a built in crowbar to protect itself from an overvoltage event. That's why the wiring diagram shows a pullable breaker as the only circuit protection device. If the internal crowbar decides to unload on the system, the breaker pops and can be reset after the errant alternator is offline. If there is a fuse in the circuit, it will blow before the breaker does and you're SOL in terms of getting the ignition running again until the fuse can be replaced. If this one thin un-fused wire were to short to the airframe before the breaker, it would likely burn right through and become un-shorted. In the meantime, you'd be out one ignition. Best to be very careful in routing and securing this wire and after that - don't worry about it. Inspect it at annual and keep flying. There was a case where some guy put 2 lightspeeds into a lancair and wired them, as I understand it, through fuses which blew and caused a forced landing. Think twice about failure modes before changing manufacturers' wiring diagrams. Once you think it through, then wire it as you see fit, but be sure you know why you made any changes. Pax, Ed Holyoke On 3/17/2011 7:52 PM, DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" > > > Klaus wants the hot wire to go to the battery directly in order to minimize > voltage sag at the brain box during starting. I have a Lightspeed Plasma > II+ that I originally intended to activate with the aircraft's key switch > (along with the single slick magneto that I have on the left side firing the > bottom plugs). Note that the Plasma II+ (and III+) have two separate wires > that work with the key switch made for airplane magnetos. You can't wire a > Plasma II into a standard aircraft (magneto grounding) key switch, it > doesn't have these extra wires. After I read about some failures of the > standard aircraft key switch I gave it some more thought and decided to > eliminate the key switch as a single point failure (why lose both ignition > systems with the failure of one switch). > > I decided to leave the magneto on the key switch and wire the Lightspeed to > one of the terminals of the bussman six-fuse-block that serves as my battery > bus. The fuse block is behind the instrument panel and its common terminal > is connected to the Odyssey battery (on the engine side of the firewall) > through a 14 gauge wire and a 20 amp klixon breaker (in a box on the > firewall next to the battery to protect the 14 gauge wire). The Lightspeed > shielded wire goes from the battery bus fuse block to a "BAT" switch (a > toggle switch whose stem has to be pulled out of machined notches in the > case in order to turn it on or off) and from the BAT switch to the > Lightspeed brain box behind the instrument panel (the brain box ground is > connect to a forest of faston tabs on the firewall). > > So yes, I did wire it to the battery but, the signal path goes from the > battery through the CB on the firewall, the 14 GA tefzel wire (unshielded), > the fuse block, the BAT switch and finally to the brain box!!! > > Bottom line....2.5 years of flying bliss, the setup works fine and I've had > no problems whatsoever. I start the engine using the key switch (impulse > coupled magneto only). Once the engine is running I turn on the Lightspeed. > It works great with no kickback and, I can still turn the electronic > ignition off during the run-up to see how the magneto and bottom plugs are > working. I've also started using the Lightspeed only and had no trouble. > > Like many of these things that we builders tend to fret over, this is one > that you should not worry about, different wiring schemes are not a big > deal. Wire it in and get that bird flying. > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > 2.5 years of flying fun > > > -------------------Original Message------------------- > > Time: 09:35:35 PM PST US > From: fedico94@mchsi.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-12 and Plasma II ignition > > > I am building an RV-9A per Z-12 outline. The plane has one elctronic > ignition on the right going to the top cylinders and one Slick magneto on > the Left side. > > The manufacturer of the electronic ignition insists that the rather thin > electrical wire (shelded cable) be attached directly to the battery. I am > questioning the advisability of this unless a fuse or CB placed at the > battery. Uncomfotable with this hot wire entering the fuselage and being > seperated from the battery bus. If the fuse is on the engine side I feel > less in control to replace the fuse or reset the CB. Could not find any > references on the this website. Would appreciate your thoughts on this > matter. > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:15 AM PST US From: Jeff Page Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Current draw for lighting Buss > Aren't all or most of those auto-dimming? I think you should verify that fe > ature and only manual dim the ones that can't. > Most things can. > Tim My Garmin 430W is autodimming, but the function is adversely affected in my Cessna 172 by the overhead red light that gently illuminates the entire panel. It took a lot of playing with the (non-intuitive) dimming curve to make it work properly. I was unable to truly simulate in flight at night lighting conditions on the ground, because the exact level of the overhead light was significant. Having my hand in front of the unit to press the buttons affected it too. I have it balanced now, but changing the overhead light level messes it up :-( On my Tundra, I intend to try to make the manual dimming mode work with whatever dimmers I choose, which will give me more direct control. I guess the other option would be to not provide general illumination for the panel, which would require reverse lighting of all the switch labels. Jeff Page Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:54 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II An excerpt from a LSI service bulletin found at: http://www.lightspeedengineering.com/News/ServiceBulletins.htm Electrical System Requirements All Plasma CDI systems can be used with 12 or 24 volt electrical systems. Input voltages above 35 volts or reversed polarity can cause system damage. For this reason it is mandatory that all aircraft using Plasma CD Ignitions are equipped with over-voltage protection in their alternator charging system(s). Over-voltage protection is a requirement for certified aircraft. Power connection must be directly to the battery terminals to avoid voltage spikes and electrical noise. Aluminum should never be used as an electrical conductor for the Plasma CDI. Use only the supplied aircraft quality stranded wire. Minimum supply voltage for starting is 6.5 Volts. Minimum operating voltage is 5.5 Volts. ------------------------ This ignition system has been under development since 1986. I met Klaus at OSH for the first time that year. He was offering an MSD racing spark-generator combined with his own trigger-timing system to make it more aircraft friendly. In terms of engine performance, it was indeed a quantum jump forward. He had the fastest Ez on the planet back then. But the system wasn't ready for prime-time in the OBAM aviation market. It was big, heavy, and produced radio noise like Marconi's spark gap transmitter. The product has come a very long way since then. It has suffered the odd error of design or fabrication over the years, there are a hand full of failure events due to manufacturing error . . . but no more than one would expect to see from any emerging product that was developed on 1% of a NASA budget for the same device. It's a safe assertion that Klaus has carried out his development and marketing programs with due diligence to the customers. He has learned his lessons well over 25 years attendance in the school of realistic free-market enterprise. But Klaus is not a system integrator. As a very small business entrepreneur he has properly focused his attention to performance of the INNER workings of his product. It follows then that there may be errors of perception when it comes to recommendations for the OUTER workings when his product is being contemplated for use on YOUR airplane. Klaus is not unique in this fundamental fact of life in the aviation world. Really BIG names like Garmin, King, Narco, ARC and others have displayed their lack of knowledge of real-world conditions that surround their installed products. Their installation manuals have offered ideas and recommendations based on "worries" that have no foundations in fact for decades. Having worked both sides of the fence as both a supplier and integrator of black boxes, I'm blessed with an appreciation of how badly that 'fence' can block the useful exchange of simple- ideas between the two camps. A major component of my professional activities in general aviation was to function as a liaison between the black-box and airframe guys. I've got some jaw dropping stories to tell about $millions$ blown down the tubes because somebody on one side of the fence or the other wasn't interested in understanding the simple-ideas that tied his product to stuff from the other side of the fence. Suffice it to say that I perceive only two niggling 'problems' with Klaus's perceptions of the world in which his products live and perform quite well. Further, both problems are residents of that wildly misunderstood world of noise, spikes and overvoltage. One is the shielded power wire thing. Shielding does NOTHING for the mitigation of noise in anything except a very narrow range of issues. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/MagnetoSwitchOptions.pdf Page 12 of http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/richter/response_2.pdf Shielding of the power wire for an LSI ignition system accomplishes nothing. The excerpt above contains the statement: Power connection must be directly to the battery terminals to avoid voltage spikes and electrical noise. We have discussed the spikes and noise thing at great length here on the List. Some of you will recall lengthy discussions about 10 years ago with a couple of gentlemen who had a great deal of shade-tree folk lore to share but neither of whom spent one hour in a DO-160 test lab or crawling around an airplane chasing root cause of a real noise issue. There are no products with any track-record in aviation that will benefit from "purer power" offered at the terminals of a battery . . . and the LSI system is a member of the community of aviation products with long and successful track records. Suffice it to say that the LSI system is at no risk of improper function or premature failure for getting its power from ANY point in the system as DICTATED by your own design goals and failure modes effects analysis. The folks here on the list fly everything from Kitfoxes to LA-IVP. Any and all might avail themselves of the value offered by the LSI ignition systems. If it were my airplane, my LSI ignition(s) would power from separate 5A fuses/breakers tied to the battery bus. If you've got two engine driven power sources (Z-13), then you might power one of the ignitions through a 5A fuses/breakers on the e-bus. If Z-12, then one from the battery bus and the other from the main bus. Whether you use breakers or fuses matters not. Whether you can REACH the breakers or fuses matters not. Exactly where that power comes from is of very little significance except as it becomes a part of your Plan-B for dealing with an alternator-out situation. The LSI system may have ov protection for levels that exceed it's maximum operation voltage (35 volts) but even if it were a crowbar system that pops breakers/fuses it is of no concern in a 14v system . . . or any system that's properly fitted with ov protection at 16.4/32.8 volts per legacy design goals. I'll be meeting with Klaus on other matters later this year and we'll discuss an AEC review of his published installation recommendations. In the mean time, know that the worries circulating amongst the OBAM aviation community have no foundation in facts known to us at this time. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:50:23 AM PST US From: fedico94@mchsi.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II Thank you this information to increase my understanding and eloquently stated as well. I will stay with the design per Z-12. I have one Slick mag on the left and the LSI Hall effect sensor on the right mag location on the Aerosport IO-320. As you have mentioned on other posts, I will probably use the Slick mag until it fails and then switch to a dual electronic ignition system. The traditional magneto gives me some comfort at this time but I would expect the next 10 years to see considerable progress in this area. I to have a great respect for the product which is why I choose it over competitors and the other alternative of using traditional magnetos, although I have never met Mr. Savier he has a well thought out system that is very good considering the shoe string budget. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 9:53:48 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II An excerpt from a LSI service bulletin found at: http://www.lightspeedengineering.com/News/ServiceBulletins.htm Electrical System Requirements All Plasma CDI systems can be used with 12 or 24 volt electrical systems. Input voltages above 35 volts or reversed polarity can cause system damage. For this reason it is mandatory that all aircraft using Plasma CD Ignitions are equipped with over-voltage protection in their alternator charging system(s). Over-voltage protection is a requirement for certified aircraft. Power connection must be directly to the battery terminals to avoid voltage spikes and electrical noise. Aluminum should never be used as an electrical conductor for the Plasma CDI. Use only the supplied aircraft quality stranded wire. Minimum supply voltage for starting is 6.5 Volts. Minimum operating voltage is 5.5 Volts. ------------------------ This ignition system has been under development since 1986. I met Klaus at OSH for the first time that year. He was offering an MSD racing spark-generator combined with his own trigger-timing system to make it more aircraft friendly. In terms of engine performance, it was indeed a quantum jump forward. He had the fastest Ez on the planet back then. But the system wasn't ready for prime-time in the OBAM aviation market. It was big, heavy, and produced radio noise like Marconi's spark gap transmitter. The product has come a very long way since then. It has suffered the odd error of design or fabrication over the years, there are a hand full of failure events due to manufacturing error . . . but no more than one would expect to see from any emerging product that was developed on 1% of a NASA budget for the same device. It's a safe assertion that Klaus has carried out his development and marketing programs with due diligence to the customers. He has learned his lessons well over 25 years attendance in the school of realistic free-market enterprise. But Klaus is not a system integrator. As a very small business entrepreneur he has properly focused his attention to performance of the INNER workings of his product. It follows then that there may be errors of perception when it comes to recommendations for the OUTER workings when his product is being contemplated for use on YOUR airplane. Klaus is not unique in this fundamental fact of life in the aviation world. Really BIG names like Garmin, King, Narco, ARC and others have displayed their lack of knowledge of real-world conditions that surround their installed products. Their installation manuals have offered ideas and recommendations based on "worries" that have no foundations in fact for decades. Having worked both sides of the fence as both a supplier and integrator of black boxes, I'm blessed with an appreciation of how badly that 'fence' can block the useful exchange of simple- ideas between the two camps. A major component of my professional activities in general aviation was to function as a liaison between the black-box and airframe guys. I've got some jaw dropping stories to tell about $millions$ blown down the tubes because somebody on one side of the fence or the other wasn't interested in understanding the simple-ideas that tied his product to stuff from the other side of the fence. Suffice it to say that I perceive only two niggling 'problems' with Klaus's perceptions of the world in which his products live and perform quite well. Further, both problems are residents of that wildly misunderstood world of noise, spikes and overvoltage. One is the shielded power wire thing. Shielding does NOTHING for the mitigation of noise in anything except a very narrow range of issues. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/MagnetoSwitchOptions.pdf Page 12 of http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/richter/response_2.pdf Shielding of the power wire for an LSI ignition system accomplishes nothing. The excerpt above contains the statement: Power connection must be directly to the battery terminals to avoid voltage spikes and electrical noise. We have discussed the spikes and noise thing at great length here on the List. Some of you will recall lengthy discussions about 10 years ago with a couple of gentlemen who had a great deal of shade-tree folk lore to share but neither of whom spent one hour in a DO-160 test lab or crawling around an airplane chasing root cause of a real noise issue. There are no products with any track-record in aviation that will benefit from "purer power" offered at the terminals of a battery . . . and the LSI system is a member of the community of aviation products with long and successful track records. Suffice it to say that the LSI system is at no risk of improper function or premature failure for getting its power from ANY point in the system as DICTATED by your own design goals and failure modes effects analysis. The folks here on the list fly everything from Kitfoxes to LA-IVP. Any and all might avail themselves of the value offered by the LSI ignition systems. If it were my airplane, my LSI ignition(s) would power from separate 5A fuses/breakers tied to the battery bus. If you've got two engine driven power sources (Z-13), then you might power one of the ignitions through a 5A fuses/breakers on the e-bus. If Z-12, then one from the battery bus and the other from the main bus. Whether you use breakers or fuses matters not. Whether you can REACH the breakers or fuses matters not. Exactly where that power comes from is of very little significance except as it becomes a part of your Plan-B for dealing with an alternator-out situation. The LSI system may have ov protection for levels that exceed it's maximum operation voltage (35 volts) but even if it were a crowbar system that pops breakers/fuses it is of no concern in a 14v system . . . or any system that's properly fitted with ov protection at 16.4/32.8 volts per legacy design goals. I'll be meeting with Klaus on other matters later this year and we'll discuss an AEC review of his published installation recommendations. In the mean time, know that the worries circulating amongst the OBAM aviation community have no foundation in facts known to us at this time. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:01 AM PST US From: fedico94@mchsi.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II Thank you for the practical advice regarding the rpm hook-up. The Garmin G3X sytem I am installing uses a pick-up off the Left Slick mag. I will still use the output section of the LSI control box which I beleive can be used for checking timing. ----- Original Message ----- From: longg@pjm.com Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 8:40:47 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II I'm with Klaus and Ed, If Klaus doesnt have enough faith in the system to wire it to the bus, neither do I. Hardwire that sucker. If it smokes and you're still around, send it back to him. His problem. I use the switch style breaker right on the panel so it's an easy hookup. I also use the optional aux 5 amp battery and mounted it under the tunnel in my Legacy. Big ole' red hooded panic switch on the panel to change over to battery power. I chickened out on the dual system and pulled one in favor of one mag. I had a Lancair test pilot in that experienced two total failures on dual EI systems. Too each his own. Dont forget to check the amperage on the auxiliary battery over some interval. Other than that the thing doesn't skip a beat. The box is supposed to put out a signal for an RPM hookup, but even with Klaus's help, I never got it working. Bought the cheapo transducer from Vans and it works fine. Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fedico94@mchsi.com Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 12:30 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II Thank you for your insight. I enjoyed reading your email and found it to be a big help ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Holyoke Sent: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 22:54:38 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II There is one other thing to think about before you go changing the way Klaus has the wiring diagram laid out. As was mentioned in a thread a while back, the Lightspeed box has a built in crowbar to protect itself from an overvoltage event. That's why the wiring diagram shows a pullable breaker as the only circuit protection device. If the internal crowbar decides to unload on the system, the breaker pops and can be reset after the errant alternator is offline. If there is a fuse in the circuit, it will blow before the breaker does and you're SOL in terms of getting the ignition running again until the fuse can be replaced. If this one thin un-fused wire were to short to the airframe before the breaker, it would likely burn right through and become un-shorted. In the meantime, you'd be out one ignition. Best to be very careful in routing and securing this wire and after that - don't worry about it. Inspect it at annual and keep flying. There was a case where some guy put 2 lightspeeds into a lancair and wired them, as I understand it, through fuses which blew and caused a forced landing. Think twice about failure modes before changing manufacturers' wiring diagrams. Once you think it through, then wire it as you see fit, but be sure you know why you made any changes. Pax, Ed Holyoke On 3/17/2011 7:52 PM, DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" > > > Klaus wants the hot wire to go to the battery directly in order to minimize > voltage sag at the brain box during starting. I have a Lightspeed Plasma > II+ that I originally intended to activate with the aircraft's key switch > (along with the single slick magneto that I have on the left side firing the > bottom plugs). Note that the Plasma II+ (and III+) have two separate wires > that work with the key switch made for airplane magnetos. You can't wire a > Plasma II into a standard aircraft (magneto grounding) key switch, it > doesn't have these extra wires. After I read about some failures of the > standard aircraft key switch I gave it some more thought and decided to > eliminate the key switch as a single point failure (why lose both ignition > systems with the failure of one switch). > > I decided to leave the magneto on the key switch and wire the Lightspeed to > one of the terminals of the bussman six-fuse-block that serves as my battery > bus. The fuse block is behind the instrument panel and its common terminal > is connected to the Odyssey battery (on the engine side of the firewall) > through a 14 gauge wire and a 20 amp klixon breaker (in a box on the > firewall next to the battery to protect the 14 gauge wire). The Lightspeed > shielded wire goes from the battery bus fuse block to a "BAT" switch (a > toggle switch whose stem has to be pulled out of machined notches in the > case in order to turn it on or off) and from the BAT switch to the > Lightspeed brain box behind the instrument panel (the brain box ground is > connect to a forest of faston tabs on the firewall). > > So yes, I did wire it to the battery but, the signal path goes from the > battery through the CB on the firewall, the 14 GA tefzel wire (unshielded), > the fuse block, the BAT switch and finally to the brain box!!! > > Bottom line....2.5 years of flying bliss, the setup works fine and I've had > no problems whatsoever. I start the engine using the key switch (impulse > coupled magneto only). Once the engine is running I turn on the Lightspeed. > It works great with no kickback and, I can still turn the electronic > ignition off during the run-up to see how the magneto and bottom plugs are > working. I've also started using the Lightspeed only and had no trouble. > > Like many of these things that we builders tend to fret over, this is one > that you should not worry about, different wiring schemes are not a big > deal. Wire it in and get that bird flying. > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > 2.5 years of flying fun > > > -------------------Original Message------------------- > > Time: 09:35:35 PM PST US > From: fedico94@mchsi.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-12 and Plasma II ignition > > > I am building an RV-9A per Z-12 outline. The plane has one elctronic > ignition on the right going to the top cylinders and one Slick magneto on > the Left side. > > The manufacturer of the electronic ignition insists that the rather thin > electrical wire (shelded cable) be attached directly to the battery. I am > questioning the advisability of this unless a fuse or CB placed at the > battery. Uncomfotable with this hot wire entering the fuselage and being > seperated from the battery bus. If the fuse is on the engine side I feel > less in control to replace the fuse or reset the CB. Could not find any > references on the this website. Would appreciate your thoughts on this > matter. > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:39:38 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Current draw for lighting Buss From: "Eric M. Jones" Two things: 1) It is BUS not BUSS. 2) Because of the low luminous efficiency of incandescent indicator lamps, (maybe a few lumens/watt), the current draw of a panel full of small incandescent lamps is enormous. They are also rarely put in series. So--consider it important to use LEDs in your airplane. And get rid of those push-to-test lamp buttons. Okay that's three or four things. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=334302#334302 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:52:17 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II From: Yes, I bought the Simpson display and wiring harness that Klaus sells on his website. It's very helpful in determining rpm/map/timing for each. One note is that the dual system display only works for both if the powered side (on mine, that's the left IGN) is on. If you go this route and are planning dual EI in the future, get a display for each which makes the wiring easier and isolates the display in case of a failure. The display values seem very accurate. If you are comfortable with wires and solder you can buy the display cheap and wire it yourself. Glenn E. Long -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fedico94@mchsi.com Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 12:51 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II Thank you for the practical advice regarding the rpm hook-up. The Garmin G3X sytem I am installing uses a pick-up off the Left Slick mag. I will still use the output section of the LSI control box which I beleive can be used for checking timing. ----- Original Message ----- From: longg@pjm.com Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 8:40:47 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II I'm with Klaus and Ed, If Klaus doesnt have enough faith in the system to wire it to the bus, neither do I. Hardwire that sucker. If it smokes and you're still around, send it back to him. His problem. I use the switch style breaker right on the panel so it's an easy hookup. I also use the optional aux 5 amp battery and mounted it under the tunnel in my Legacy. Big ole' red hooded panic switch on the panel to change over to battery power. I chickened out on the dual system and pulled one in favor of one mag. I had a Lancair test pilot in that experienced two total failures on dual EI systems. Too each his own. Dont forget to check the amperage on the auxiliary battery over some interval. Other than that the thing doesn't skip a beat. The box is supposed to put out a signal for an RPM hookup, but even with Klaus's help, I never got it working. Bought the cheapo transducer from Vans and it works fine. Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fedico94@mchsi.com Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 12:30 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II Thank you for your insight. I enjoyed reading your email and found it to be a big help ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Holyoke Sent: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 22:54:38 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Lightspeed Plasma II There is one other thing to think about before you go changing the way Klaus has the wiring diagram laid out. As was mentioned in a thread a while back, the Lightspeed box has a built in crowbar to protect itself from an overvoltage event. That's why the wiring diagram shows a pullable breaker as the only circuit protection device. If the internal crowbar decides to unload on the system, the breaker pops and can be reset after the errant alternator is offline. If there is a fuse in the circuit, it will blow before the breaker does and you're SOL in terms of getting the ignition running again until the fuse can be replaced. If this one thin un-fused wire were to short to the airframe before the breaker, it would likely burn right through and become un-shorted. In the meantime, you'd be out one ignition. Best to be very careful in routing and securing this wire and after that - don't worry about it. Inspect it at annual and keep flying. There was a case where some guy put 2 lightspeeds into a lancair and wired them, as I understand it, through fuses which blew and caused a forced landing. Think twice about failure modes before changing manufacturers' wiring diagrams. Once you think it through, then wire it as you see fit, but be sure you know why you made any changes. Pax, Ed Holyoke On 3/17/2011 7:52 PM, DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" > > > Klaus wants the hot wire to go to the battery directly in order to minimize > voltage sag at the brain box during starting. I have a Lightspeed Plasma > II+ that I originally intended to activate with the aircraft's key switch > (along with the single slick magneto that I have on the left side firing the > bottom plugs). Note that the Plasma II+ (and III+) have two separate wires > that work with the key switch made for airplane magnetos. You can't wire a > Plasma II into a standard aircraft (magneto grounding) key switch, it > doesn't have these extra wires. After I read about some failures of the > standard aircraft key switch I gave it some more thought and decided to > eliminate the key switch as a single point failure (why lose both ignition > systems with the failure of one switch). > > I decided to leave the magneto on the key switch and wire the Lightspeed to > one of the terminals of the bussman six-fuse-block that serves as my battery > bus. The fuse block is behind the instrument panel and its common terminal > is connected to the Odyssey battery (on the engine side of the firewall) > through a 14 gauge wire and a 20 amp klixon breaker (in a box on the > firewall next to the battery to protect the 14 gauge wire). The Lightspeed > shielded wire goes from the battery bus fuse block to a "BAT" switch (a > toggle switch whose stem has to be pulled out of machined notches in the > case in order to turn it on or off) and from the BAT switch to the > Lightspeed brain box behind the instrument panel (the brain box ground is > connect to a forest of faston tabs on the firewall). > > So yes, I did wire it to the battery but, the signal path goes from the > battery through the CB on the firewall, the 14 GA tefzel wire (unshielded), > the fuse block, the BAT switch and finally to the brain box!!! > > Bottom line....2.5 years of flying bliss, the setup works fine and I've had > no problems whatsoever. I start the engine using the key switch (impulse > coupled magneto only). Once the engine is running I turn on the Lightspeed. > It works great with no kickback and, I can still turn the electronic > ignition off during the run-up to see how the magneto and bottom plugs are > working. I've also started using the Lightspeed only and had no trouble. > > Like many of these things that we builders tend to fret over, this is one > that you should not worry about, different wiring schemes are not a big > deal. Wire it in and get that bird flying. > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > 2.5 years of flying fun > > > -------------------Original Message------------------- > > Time: 09:35:35 PM PST US > From: fedico94@mchsi.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-12 and Plasma II ignition > > > I am building an RV-9A per Z-12 outline. The plane has one elctronic > ignition on the right going to the top cylinders and one Slick magneto on > the Left side. > > The manufacturer of the electronic ignition insists that the rather thin > electrical wire (shelded cable) be attached directly to the battery. I am > questioning the advisability of this unless a fuse or CB placed at the > battery. Uncomfotable with this hot wire entering the fuselage and being > seperated from the battery bus. If the fuse is on the engine side I feel > less in control to replace the fuse or reset the CB. Could not find any > references on the this website. Would appreciate your thoughts on this > matter. > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:44:15 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Toggle switch keyways redux >At 10:54 AM 3/1/2011, I wrote: >I would take "keyway conventions" with a grain of salt! > > When we began to study the application of progressive > transfer switches I published drawings with numbered > terminals to assist the neophyte technician in getting > wires on the right terminals the first time. I discovered > that the way Microswitch and Carling built their progressive > switches was not the same. I had to publish this piece to > make folks aware of the differences: > >http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Carling_Micro/Carling_Micro.pdf > > . . . right and left hand columns were functionally > swapped between the two brands. In later years, > I think Carling swapped their progressive transfer > switches to conform to what the mil-spec guys > were doing. > Microswitch had numbers molded into their switch > housings as did the other high-end suppliers. So > I adopted THEIR convention for speaking to terminal > numbering versus functionality. -------------------------------- I was wiring up a Microswitch product yesterday and noted (1) terminal numbers were indeed molded into the switch housing and (2) my illustration cited above was technically correct. But I see that while looking into the back of the switch, the numbers are right-side-up for reading when the key-way was down. Years later, I have no recollection of why I chose to reference the illustration key-way up . . . flip of the coin I guess. In any case, a degree of confusion would no doubt have been avoided had I translated more accurately from the data presented in the manufacturer's catalog data. For newer members to the List, I'll mention that the 'Connection website has an archive of manufacturer's data publications at: http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data.html If anyone discovers data on a useful product that could be added to this archive, please let me know about it. The short lesson here is that it's never a waste of time to look over and understand the published data that supports proposed installation of a device. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:46:00 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transient_voltage_suppression_diode failure From: "Eric M. Jones" Looks just like that Perihelion Design thing they call a SnapJack. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=334316#334316 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:42 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transient_voltage_suppression_diode failure From: Eric, you're on a roll today. Q - the whackjack thing you sell: does that have a mounting hole or does it screw onto a 1/4 bolt or what? I'm pausing about where that thing would install up front. Also, how large a wire do you run from the whackjack to the B Terminal? With the Nuclear Plant problem in Japan (sort of like an alternator that won't turn off), I'm thinking this is a good investment. Glenn E. Long -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M. Jones Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 3:43 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transient_voltage_suppression_diode failure Looks just like that Perihelion Design thing they call a SnapJack. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=334316#334316 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:27:45 PM PST US From: MLWynn@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Current draw for lighting Buss Thanks, Eric All this time, I though bus was what you drove and buss was where the power was. I guess the real buss is a kiss and kisses, while powerful, don't actually carry current (although they can be electrifying). I understand the LED advantage and plan to illuminate the panel with an LED strip. I was looking at a lighting bus just for the avionics. It would only carry the current necessary for the four radios. I can't imagine it is more than a amp or two. Do you have any idea? Regards, Michael Wynn RV 8 Wiring San Ramon (land of the functionally illiterate) In a message dated 3/18/2011 10:40:24 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, emjones@charter.net writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" Two things: 1) It is BUS not BUSS. 2) Because of the low luminous efficiency of incandescent indicator lamps, (maybe a few lumens/watt), the current draw of a panel full of small incandescent lamps is enormous. They are also rarely put in series. So--consider it important to use LEDs in your airplane. And get rid of those push-to-test lamp buttons. Okay that's three or four things. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=334302#334302 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:55 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transient_voltage_suppression_diode failure From: "Eric M. Jones" Glenn, It has a 1/4" Stud. But it isn't designed to save everything if your alternator runs away. The wire should be 22g. Headline: JAP SCIENTISTS CALL MOTHRA AND GODZILLA TO STOMP ATOMIC FIRES do not archive -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=334350#334350 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:36 PM PST US From: tim2542@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Current draw for lighting Buss I'm just guessing here but I imagine at least some of these just use the dim mer input as a reference source. You will have to call the various mfg's to k now for sure. Tim Sent from my iPhone On Mar 18, 2011, at 3:23 PM, MLWynn@aol.com wrote: > Thanks, Eric > > All this time, I though bus was what you drove and buss was where the powe r was. I guess the real buss is a kiss and kisses, while powerful, don't ac tually carry current (although they can be electrifying). > > I understand the LED advantage and plan to illuminate the panel with an LE D strip. I was looking at a lighting bus just for the avionics. It would o nly carry the current necessary for the four radios. I can't imagine it is m ore than a amp or two. Do you have any idea? > > Regards, > > Michael Wynn > RV 8 Wiring > San Ramon (land of the functionally illiterate) > > In a message dated 3/18/2011 10:40:24 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, emjones@ charter.net writes: net> > > Two things: > > 1) It is BUS not BUSS. > > 2) Because of the low luminous efficiency of incandescent indicator lamps, (maybe a few lumens/watt), the current draw of a panel full of small incand escent lamps is enormous. They are also rarely put in series. So--consider i t important to use LEDs in your airplane. > > And get rid of those push-to-test lamp buttons. Okay that's three or four t hings. > > -------- > Eric M. Jones > www.PerihelionDesign.com > 113 Brentwood Drive > Southbridge, MA 01550 > (508) 764-2072 > emjones@charter.net > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=334302#334302===== ========================== =============== ========================== ======= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ====== ========================== ================ - List Contribut ion Web Site sp; ============ ========================== ============ > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:34 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Toggle switch keyways redux > Years later, I have no recollection of why I chose > to reference the illustration key-way up . . . flip > of the coin I guess. In any case, a degree of confusion > would no doubt have been avoided had I translated more > accurately from the data presented in the manufacturer's > catalog data. Actually, now I do recall. We were just beginning to consider the utility of 2-pole, progressive transfer switches. In particular the 2-10 for OFF, BAT, BAT+ALT function as a DC PWR MASTER and the 2-50 as an OFF, PUMP, PUMP+PRIME functionality for fuel systems. The -50 switch would be oriented such that the PUMP+PRIME position was spring-loaded back to center for PUMP only. The the spring loaded position was on the key-way side, hence . . . key-way up became the "AEC convention" if you will for use of these switches in the Z-figures. Stir the gray matter gently and with patience. Never can tell what useful data might bubble to the surface. . . Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.