---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 04/18/11: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:07 AM - Re: Contactors (Robert Dufresne) 2. 06:10 AM - Re: Re: remote battery charging (Robert Dufresne) 3. 11:15 AM - AEC9009 Audio Iso Amp Wiring, especially Shielded Wires (Jared Yates) 4. 11:31 AM - Re: GNS430 Communication Voltage- 14v or 28v? (Jared Yates) 5. 02:31 PM - Re: GNS430 Communication Voltage- 14v or 28v? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 05:02 PM - Town washed away by tsunami (RScott) 7. 05:56 PM - Re: GNS430 Communication Voltage- 14v or 28v? (Tim Andres) 8. 07:05 PM - Re: GNS430 Communication Voltage- 14v or 28v? (Jared Yates) 9. 07:27 PM - Re: GNS430 Communication Voltage- 14v or 28v? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:51 AM PST US From: Robert Dufresne Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Contactors test -----Message d'origine----- De: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Robert L. Nuckolls, III Envoy: 8 avril 2011 10:46 : aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Objet: Re: AeroElectric-List: Contactors At 11:38 PM 4/7/2011, you wrote: > > >Unless I am mistaken the S701 can CARRY the starting current but is >not designed to make or break (close or open) with the high starting >current. The S702 is specifically designed to make or break with >the high starting current. Right on . . . The S701 draws just under 1A of current, is designed for continuous duty operations and is rated to SWITCH only 70A. It has relatively large area, lower pressure contacts. http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/S701-1b.jpg The S702 draws 3-5A, gets destructively hot if you leave it on too long and is rated to SWITCH hundreds of amps. It features low area, high pressure contacts http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/S702-1a.jpg They are entirely different breeds of cat crafted for specific applications. Having said all that, know that a contactor, relay or switch that is CONTROLLING currents many times the rated value WILL perform to some level. In fact, you may well achieve 'satisfactory performance' from an S701-style contactor in a starter control application. It's service life would be reduced to maybe 1-10% of rated . . . but if that number is still 500-1000 cranking events . . . how might it matter to you? Bottom line is that using the S701 in this manner is simply not the-best-we-know-how-to-do with components having similar costs. Further, it is not a recipe for disaster or even severe spikes in cost-of-ownership. So if you're willing to experiment, then let us know how it works out. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:13 AM PST US From: Robert Dufresne Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: remote battery charging Test 2 -----Message d'origine----- De: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de user9253 Envoy: 13 mars 2011 11:10 : aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Objet: AeroElectric-List: Re: remote battery charging If you have a cigarette type power outlet in the cockpit, you can use one of these chargers for sale on eBay: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_9Rmupq9lpCs/TXzXScNgc-I/AAAAAAAAAKk/uPU9_ yO6qpM/Charger.png WalMart sells a similar charger http://www.walmart.com/ip/Schumacher-SpeedCharge-Battery-Maintainer-and-Char ger/13005742 but you will have to buy a separate cigarette lighter plug. Or you can put flush mounted anchor nuts or nutplates on the outside of the fuselage and use the ring terminals that come with the charger along with some screws. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=333736#333736 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:15:28 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: AEC9009 Audio Iso Amp Wiring, especially Shielded Wires From: Jared Yates AEC questions I'm wiring the AEC 9009 Audio Iso Amp and want to be sure that I'm doing it correctly. I don't understand entirely about how and when wires need to be shielded in this case. I have a single Nav/Com (GNS430), a Flightcom 403 stereo intercom, a pilot position with a push-to-talk, a co-pilot position with a push-to-talk, and two back seat passengers. Inputs to the 9009 are the Dynon warning tones from the HS34, the 430 Nav audio, and a stereo ipod jack. Here's my wiring plan so far: 1. Connect the dynon HS34 tone output with a single-wire shielded cable at the 9009's pin 4(center conductor) and 10(sheild), leaving the Dynon's end of the shielded cable not connected to anything. 2. Use another single-wire shielded cable to connect the 430 Nav Audio Hi output to the 9009's pin 2(center conductor) and the Nav Audio Lo to the 9009 pin 11(shield). Is this correct, or do I need two conductors and a shield, with the shield wired as per 1 (connected at 9009, clipped at the other end)? 3. Connect a 3.5mm stereo jack to the 9009 with a 2-wire shielded cable: one conductor from the jack to 9009 pin 1, one conductor from the jack to 9009 pin 5, and the shield from the 3.5mm jack's ground to pin 12 on the 9009 (and the jack isolated from the airframe ground). Same question as number 2- Is this correct? Do I instead need to run a 3-wire shielded cable, with the third conductor connected to the jack's ground, and the shield wired as in number 1 above? 4. Run the left and right outputs of the 9009 (pins 7 and 6) to the flightcom's aux input channels. What about shields here? Should I run a single cable with two wires, or does each conductor need to be in its own shield? 5. Run the power to pin 8 on the 9009 with a 22AWG wire that is crimped in the same faston terminal as the intercom's power line so that they share a 1A fuse. 6. Wire the rest of the audio system (pilot, copilot, pax mic/phone jacks) per the flightcom directions, using 3-wire shielded cable with the jacks isolated from the airframe. What do I need to do with the shields? The Flightcom manual says that it has fail safe wiring that connects the pilot jacks to the radio if the intercom loses power, so I was planning to skip the fail-safe jacks described in the AEC9009 literature. Is there any other reason why I would want to include them? I can think of two cases where they would be useful. First, as described in the flightcom manual, if the intercom were to become inop and I removed it to send it away, I could still fly the airplane with a single functioning headset by using the directly wired jacks. If I omit the direct jacks, then this feature would not be available. Second, if the intercom failsafe system were to fail and the intercom were to both fail at the same time, I would be unable to use the 430's Com and would have to resort to the backup handheld and its headset adapter cord. Both of these circumstances seem pretty unlikely, and I think I'm willing to live without a solution for them. Are there any other good reasons to have the failsafe jacks that I might be forgetting about? My plan is to keep the 430 com functions out of the 9009 completely, since the intercom has channels for xmit and receive audio. This will keep the AEC out of the equation, and if it becomes inop then VHF communications will not be effected. Is there any reason why I shouldn't do it this way? ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:31:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GNS430 Communication Voltage- 14v or 28v? From: Jared Yates I found the source that I was talking about earlier. It's on page H-12 of the 430W manual that Bob has on his site. The note says "If the aircraft has multiple power buses, it is recommended that all GNS 430W power inputs be connected to the same bus." I wonder why they would suggest that? Has anyone else separated the two inputs over a main bus and an AEC E-bus and had good results? Also, I did notice in the fine print that the power connections to the P4006 connector only drive the superflag functions, so I don't need to hook them up. On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Jared Yates wrote: > I have in my notes that I was supposed to wire the inputs to the same bus, > but I don't remember the source. I'm using Z13/8 with a *Schottky* diode and > would be glad to split the power inputs between the main and ebus if that > isn't going to cause any problems. I hadn't considered that option since I > thought they all had to be on the same bus. > > On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Tim Andres wrote: > >> On 4/16/2011 8:19 AM, Jared Yates wrote: >> >> On a somewhat related note, how are you folks wiring the power inputs? I >> notice on the schematic that they show the redundant power sources tied >> together downstream of the circuit protection. Wouldn't it make more sense >> to run a separate fuse for each of the redundant sources? This would mean 6 >> fuses instead of 3, but wouldn't it eliminate a single failure point?* >> * >> >> I have seen professional harnesses and all they do is tie (solder seal) >> the 2 wires together just outside the connector. The feeds are diode >> isolated in the unit and I believe the intent is to be able to feed from 2 >> separate busses on on aircraft that have more than one power source. In my >> case, I used my AUX bus/batt. to enable my GRT EFIS and 430w to boot up and >> prior to engine start for flight planning etc. Since I used a Avionics >> switch this also gives a work around in case that switch fails. There are >> also separate feeds for NAV and Comm on these and this gives the installer >> some options on when & how to power it all up. The simplest thing is to just >> tie them all together and run it to your Avionics buss. >> >> Tim >> >> * >> >> * >> >> > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:31:54 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GNS430 Communication Voltage- 14v or 28v? At 02:26 PM 4/18/2011, you wrote: >I found the source that I was talking about earlier. It's on page >H-12 of the 430W manual that Bob has on his site. The note says "If >the aircraft has multiple power buses, it is recommended that all >GNS 430W power inputs be connected to the same bus." I wonder why >they would suggest that? Because the multiple power inputs are not designed be either/or . . . all inputs are necessary for full up operation of the system. Therefore it is not recommended that one input come from say the main bus and another input come from the e-bus. If your design goals call for this system to be available in the endurance mode, then all power inputs to the system would come from the e-bus . . . which is also the most failure tolerant bus having up to three sources of power through two independent pathways. > Has anyone else separated the two inputs over a main bus and an > AEC E-bus and had good results? How would one guage "good results". Without going through a proof of concept study for abnormal operations, a system that was split between busses having different levels of accessibility would go un-explored. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:04 PM PST US From: RScott Subject: AeroElectric-List: Town washed away by tsunami You may not want to watch this--it's both riveting and horrible. Video taken from a hillside as people overlook their town being washed away. Near the end a few people are caught as they try to escape up the hill and we don't know if they survived. http://www.newser.com/story/116577/new-japan-tsunami-video-shows-town-washed-away-as-residents-flee.html ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:23 PM PST US From: Tim Andres Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GNS430 Communication Voltage- 14v or 28v? On 4/18/2011 11:26 AM, Jared Yates wrote: > I found the source that I was talking about earlier. It's on page > H-12 of the 430W manual that Bob has on his site. The note says "If > the aircraft has multiple power buses, it is recommended that all GNS > 430W power inputs be connected to the same bus." I wonder why they > would suggest that? Has anyone else separated the two inputs over a > main bus and an AEC E-bus and had good results? Also, I did notice in > the fine print that the power connections to the P4006 connector only > drive the superflag functions, so I don't need to hook them up. > I believe it is Bob? at TCW that sells the power conditioner/backup supply unit. He told me that is how it is suppose to work. If you look at his website he has a schematic that shows the two power busses hooked up to different pins in the 430. See: http://tcwtech.com/Installation%20instructions%20model%20IBBS-rev1.9.pdf Tim ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GNS430 Communication Voltage- 14v or 28v? From: Jared Yates Bob, thanks for your suggestion. I was originally planning to put them all on the ebus, so I'll continue with that route. On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Tim Andres wrote: > > > > > On 4/18/2011 11:26 AM, Jared Yates wrote: > >> I found the source that I was talking about earlier. It's on page H-12 of >> the 430W manual that Bob has on his site. The note says "If the aircraft >> has multiple power buses, it is recommended that all GNS 430W power inputs >> be connected to the same bus." I wonder why they would suggest that? Has >> anyone else separated the two inputs over a main bus and an AEC E-bus and >> had good results? Also, I did notice in the fine print that the power >> connections to the P4006 connector only drive the superflag functions, so I >> don't need to hook them up. >> >> I believe it is Bob? at TCW that sells the power conditioner/backup > supply unit. He told me that is how it is suppose to work. If you look at > his website he has a schematic that shows the two power busses hooked up to > different pins in the 430. > See: > http://tcwtech.com/Installation%20instructions%20model%20IBBS-rev1.9.pdf > Tim > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:30 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GNS430 Communication Voltage- 14v or 28v? >I believe it is Bob? at TCW that sells the power conditioner/backup >supply unit. He told me that is how it is suppose to work. If you >look at his website he has a schematic that shows the two power >busses hooked up to different pins in the 430. >See: >http://tcwtech.com/Installation%20instructions%20model%20IBBS-rev1.9.pdf >Tim But that's not a Garmin schematic designed to support their product in architectures vetted by their engineering staff. This schematic is about applying a 12v standby battery to various combinations of ship's accessories. Design goals for AEC architectures is to provide failure tolerant (meaning reliable power sources) that do not benefit from adding on band-aid batteries. Without a good knowledge of TCW's design goals and the rational for their recommendations, I'm unable to offer a judgement as to potential for error or reduced reliability. In any case, you can't go wrong taking Garmin's advice for installation of their products. Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.