Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:05 AM - Re: GNS430 Communication Voltage- 14v or 28v? (bob-tcw)
2. 08:06 AM - Re: GNS430 Communication Voltage- 14v or 28v? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 09:00 AM - Your Next Plane: Beer and Barcalounger method (jonlaury)
4. 11:14 AM - Re: Your Next Plane: Beer and Barcalounger method (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 01:12 PM - Single shunt with two altenators Main and Stby (rvg8tor)
6. 02:05 PM - TurboCAD 10 (Richard Girard)
7. 02:39 PM - Re: TurboCAD 10 (John Morgensen)
8. 03:11 PM - Re: TurboCAD 10 (b d)
9. 04:04 PM - Re: Single shunt with two altenators Main and Stby (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 05:10 PM - Re: Single shunt with two altenators Main and Stby (rvg8tor)
11. 06:16 PM - Re: TurboCAD 10 (Richard Girard)
12. 06:23 PM - Re: TurboCAD 10 (Jerald Folkerts)
13. 06:55 PM - Re: TurboCAD 10 (b d)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: GNS430 Communication Voltage- 14v or 28v? |
Regarding the recommendations for wiring found in the TCW IBBS install
manual:
Although the wiring diagrams are found in a TCW publication they were in
fact "vetted" by Garmin. We worked very closely with Garmin in developing
our IBBS and IPS series of products and they tested samples of each before
we went forward with publishing our install manual. Although you will
never find Garmin directly endorsing any third party products, you will
find that these TCW products have been written into the Garmin Installation
Manuals for the Garmin G3x and G900x products.
Perhaps I can clear up the "powered from a single bus " question that Tim
referred to for the 430W manual, (however I don't work for Garmin, I just
worked "with them" on related product developments ). I believe the
single bus statement is meant at a high level, meaning powering the whole
unit for normal operation. The 430W/530W units effectively have 3
significant power inputs, (ignoring the super flags). These inputs power the
GPS/Nav portion of the unit and Comm portion of the unit. Two inputs
called Aircraft Power1 and Aircraft Power 2 are dioded ORed together to
power the GPS/Nav portion of the product. Comm Power only powers the radio
section, however, powering the Comm section alone doesn't make the pretty
screen with useful display info work, so to be useful the Comm power and
GPS/Nav power must be present at the same time if you want to use the radio.
Hence from a high level the single bus comment. Now the 430 or 530 box
will work in the GPS/Nav only mode with the radio off line, this is done
by just powering Aircraft Power 1 or Aircraft Power 2 inputs as shown in our
manual or in the G900x manual (remember, the G900x has a sub-unit called
the GIA63W which effectively is a faceless GNS530w box, in this manual you
will find a TCW IPS-12v-8a providing power conditioning to the Aircraft
Power 2 terminal of the GIA unit and their display unit GDU1040).
Now regarding the multiple pins for each of these three inputs on the Garmin
unit, I was told these were for redundancy and current handling
capability, particularly on the Comm power input which has a higher peak
current requirement than the GPS/nav power input/ So for example, the
Aircraft Power 2 input on a GNS-430W is provided on P4001, pins 15 and 72.
These pins are literally tied together on the circuit board to form a
redundant pair of connections, typically the wiring harness maker will
connect his single feed to this "input" right at the connector body,
splicing the feed wire into two pins that feed the respective input.
Hope this helps,
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies, LLC.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GNS430 Communication Voltage- 14v or 28v?
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>
>>I believe it is Bob? at TCW that sells the power conditioner/backup supply
>>unit. He told me that is how it is suppose to work. If you look at his
>>website he has a schematic that shows the two power busses hooked up to
>>different pins in the 430.
>>See:
>>http://tcwtech.com/Installation%20instructions%20model%20IBBS-rev1.9.pdf
>>Tim
>
> But that's not a Garmin schematic designed to support their
> product in architectures vetted by their engineering staff.
> This schematic is about applying a 12v standby battery to
> various combinations of ship's accessories. Design goals
> for AEC architectures is to provide failure tolerant (meaning
> reliable power sources) that do not benefit from adding on
> band-aid batteries.
>
> Without a good knowledge of TCW's design goals and
> the rational for their recommendations, I'm unable
> to offer a judgement as to potential for error or
> reduced reliability.
>
> In any case, you can't go wrong taking Garmin's advice
> for installation of their products.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: GNS430 Communication Voltage- 14v or 28v? |
At 08:00 AM 4/19/2011, you wrote:
Regarding the recommendations for wiring found in the TCW IBBS install manual:
Although the wiring diagrams are found in a TCW publication they were
in fact "vetted" by Garmin. We worked very closely with Garmin in
developing our IBBS and IPS series of products and they tested
samples of each before we went forward with publishing our install
manual. Although you will never find Garmin directly endorsing
any third party products, you will find that these TCW products
have been written into the Garmin Installation Manuals for the Garmin
G3x and G900x products.
<snip>
So for example, the Aircraft Power 2 input on a GNS-430W is
provided on P4001, pins 15 and 72. These pins are literally tied
together on the circuit board to form a redundant pair of
connections, typically the wiring harness maker will connect his
single feed to this "input" right at the connector body, splicing the
feed wire into two pins that feed the respective input.
Hope this helps,
Yes. I'm pleased that you were willing and
able to achieve this level of cooperation
and understanding with Garmin.
In other matters where I've observed Garmin's
modus operandi, I am reminded of the mind set
and creativity of folks like Ed King. We would
all do well to study their recipes for success.
Thanks for the clarification!
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Your Next Plane: Beer and Barcalounger method |
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20018-acrobatic-flying-robots-steal-the-show.html
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337507#337507
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Your Next Plane: Beer and Barcalounger method |
At 11:55 AM 4/19/2011, you wrote:
>
>http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20018-acrobatic-flying-robots-steal-the-show.html
>
I think I first observed an R/C quad-copter demo about
two years ago. The vehicle was locally stabilized (piezo
rate gyros and control loops not unlike your wing-leveler).
This allowed the pilot to concentrate on maneuvering inputs
without having to be also skilled in stability.
The obvious next step was to augment the pilot for
maneuvering control (which lets pilot move up to mission
management). The final step will be autonomous mission
management.
I had the privilege of working with HBC on a couple
of UAV projects . . . looking back, it was astounding
now what we did not yet know. But we did have the right
team. King radio for autopilot, Ball Aerospace for sensor
package, Collins for GPS (would you believe the smallest
and lightest P-mode GPS receiver was about 12 pounds and 75 cubic
inches?), Singer-Kearfott for flight management computer,
HBC for airframe, and Israel Aerospace Industries for
the ground station. We all had proven hardware that
was begging for a sensible integration. My job was to
figure out how to get all those independently developed
systems to talk to each other. We were proposing a sort
of 'telephone exchange' and interpreter that would accept
data from all systems, convert to new language as necessary
and send to all systems with interest in that data. I
had a 30 cubic inch, 1 pound budget for a very busy little
black box.
The program blew up when the prime contractor who shall
remain nameless insisted on injecting their own expertise
from a staff of PhD managers who had never designed or built
anything. They proposed a system that was more pie-in-the-sky
than a rational extension of our proven capabilities. We blew
about $10M on that program.
Looking at what these people do today has me wondering
how the story might have evolved differently if a Walter Beech,
Duane Wallace, Ed King or Bill Lear had been at the
helm. You gotta love the slabs of silicon and workstations
compilers . . . it just keeps getting better and better.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Single shunt with two altenators Main and Stby |
I have a Z12 design with the SD20 standby alternator. I am trying to decide if
I can leave out the shunt for the SD20. The Dynon FlightDEK 180 supports a single
ammeter so here are my thoughts.
1. Run each alternator to separate ANLs but tie the down stream ends of the ANLs
together then to the high side of the ammeter shunt, the low side of the shunt
takes the power flow to the battery side of the start contactor. My start
contactor is on the firewall side but the battery contactor is on the cockpit
side, I use the fat wire that ties the battery contactor to the start contactor
for double duty, it gets power to the starter via the start contactor but when
not starting is carries the power from the alternator though the firewall,
the main buss power picks up at the switched side of the battery contactor.
With this setup the standby alternator only comes on when the bus voltage drops,
which means the main alternator has or is failing, so since only one alternator
at time is working this will allow the shunt to work double duty as it were,
it shows the current going to the bus and battery, this current supplied is
either from the main alternator or the standby one.
So will this work or am I missing something important here.
Option 2:
Just don't have a shunt for the standby alternator and use the single shunt for
the monitoring of the load on the main alternator.
I know I can install a second shunt and use a switch to send the signal to the
EMS for which shunt data I want displayed but this seems like extra parts for
little benefit.
As you can tell I really don't want to install a second shunt if I can help it.
I also don't plan to use the hall effect option for the standby regulator.
Thanks for any help.
--------
Mike "Nemo" Elliott
RV-8A QB (Fuselage)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337526#337526
Message 6
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Recently there was a post about cheap TC version 10. I ordered it and got it
yesterday. This version of the software won't run on anything later than
Windows XP. I've spent about two hours trying to find a compatibility mode
that will let it run on my Windows Vista Lap top to no avail. Anyone know of
a patch?
Rick Girard
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 7
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I have TurboCAD Deluxe v10.2 build 70.1 (from Help->about) running fine
on Windows 7.
John Morgensen
RV4 - flying
RV9A - soon
On 4/19/2011 2:00 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
> Recently there was a post about cheap TC version 10. I ordered it and
> got it yesterday. This version of the software won't run on anything
> later than Windows XP. I've spent about two hours trying to find a
> compatibility mode that will let it run on my Windows Vista Lap top to
> no avail. Anyone know of a patch?
>
> Rick Girard
>
> --
> Zulu Delta
> Mk IIIC
> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>
Message 8
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Rick . . . are you running into that 32/64 bit delema thing? I don't know
but I know some 32 bit programs won't run on 64 . . .hence win 7 and Vista
maybe? I'm only guessing . . . shooting in the dark . . .aiming for Bill
Gates but still missing . . .how much was TC 10?
Bruce
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
> Recently there was a post about cheap TC version 10. I ordered it and got
> it yesterday. This version of the software won't run on anything later than
> Windows XP. I've spent about two hours trying to find a compatibility mode
> that will let it run on my Windows Vista Lap top to no avail. Anyone know of
> a patch?
>
> Rick Girard
>
> --
> Zulu Delta
> Mk IIIC
> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>
> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
> - Groucho Marx
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Single shunt with two altenators Main and Stby |
>
>As you can tell I really don't want to install a second shunt if I
>can help it.
Then don't do it. Main alternator-out operations
should be according to a PLAN.
> I also don't plan to use the hall effect option for the standby regulator.
Is this a 'option'? The regulator was designed
to annunciate failure of the main alternator
as indicated by the alternator picking up ship's
loads. Circuitry within the regulator reads the b-lead
current and stops the ALTERNATOR LOADED light from
flashing when total loads drop below 20A.
>Thanks for any help.
You don't need to install ANY ammeters. They
are adjuncts to troubleshooting . . . not
in-flight systems management. But the hall
effect sensor on the SB1B regulator is not
an ammeter. It is part of an adjunct to in-flight
operations in the Z-12 configuration.
You can run the SD-20 on about any alternator
regulator for a 14V system. But the B&C standby
regulators offer ALTERNATOR LOADED annunciation
to signal the main alternator failure.
I know I can install a second shunt and use a switch to send the
signal to the EMS for which shunt data I want displayed but this
seems like extra parts for little benefit.
What's your proposed Plan-B for pressing
the SD-20 into service as backup for a failed
alternator?
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Single shunt with two altenators Main and Stby |
I can't figure out how to break up the quoted part so my answers are in blue.
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
>
> >
> > As you can tell I really don't want to install a second shunt if I
> > can help it.
> >
> >
>
>
> Then don't do it. Main alternator-out operations
> should be according to a PLAN.
>
>
> > I also don't plan to use the hall effect option for the standby regulator.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Is this a 'option'? The regulator was designed
> to annunciate failure of the main alternator
> as indicated by the alternator picking up ship's
> loads. Circuitry within the regulator reads the b-lead
> current and stops the ALTERNATOR LOADED light from
> flashing when total loads drop below 20A.
>
>
> >
> >
> > The light comes on when the standby alternator comes on the instructions say
that the hall effect is optional to show when the load comes under 20A with
the blinking light, mine would just show a steady light. My plan is I know what
equipment I want on and I plan to shutoff or pull the CB for all unwanted items,
I know I will be under 20A with this plan. Also with my main alternator
off (I would do this as part of the failure procedure) I would see the load
on the ammeter coming from the standby alternator with the one shunt two alternator
connection I asked about in the first post. So would this work, I am trying
to find the pitfalls.
> > Thanks for any help.
> >
> >
>
> You don't need to install ANY ammeters. They
> are adjuncts to troubleshooting . . . not
> in-flight systems management. But the hall
> effect sensor on the SB1B regulator is not
> an ammeter. It is part of an adjunct to in-flight
> operations in the Z-12 configuration.
>
> You can run the SD-20 on about any alternator
> regulator for a 14V system. But the B&C standby
> regulators offer ALTERNATOR LOADED annunciation
> to signal the main alternator failure.
>
> As far as I can tell the light will still come on to show the SD20 is providing
power, I just will not get the blinking overloaded light unless I read it wrong.
>
> From the install instructions:
>
> "The SB1B-14 will operate without the hall-effect current sensor attached. The
Standby Alternator ON annunciator will illuminate normally but will not flash
if the standby alternator output is below 20 amps."
>
> I know I can install a second shunt and use a switch to send the
> signal to the EMS for which shunt data I want displayed but this
> seems like extra parts for little benefit.
>
> What's your proposed Plan-B for pressing
> the SD-20 into service as backup for a failed
> alternator?
>
> As stated above if it comes on I would reduce the load to a know set of equipment
and known amp level.
>
> Bob . . .
So will hooking both B leads to one side of the shunt be harmful in any way, since
only one alternator is on at a time, I should always read the amperage being
provided to the main but and battery no matter which alternator is providing
the power. Is there any instance when both alternators would be outputting
power under the Z12 plan?
--------
Mike "Nemo" Elliott
RV-8A QB (Fuselage)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337552#337552
Message 11
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Bruce, $14 including shipping.
Rick
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:01 PM, b d <gpabruce@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rick . . . are you running into that 32/64 bit delema thing? I don't know
> but I know some 32 bit programs won't run on 64 . . .hence win 7 and Vista
> maybe? I'm only guessing . . . shooting in the dark . . .aiming for Bill
> Gates but still missing . . .how much was TC 10?
>
> Bruce
>
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Recently there was a post about cheap TC version 10. I ordered it and got
>> it yesterday. This version of the software won't run on anything later than
>> Windows XP. I've spent about two hours trying to find a compatibility mode
>> that will let it run on my Windows Vista Lap top to no avail. Anyone know of
>> a patch?
>>
>> Rick Girard
>>
>> --
>> Zulu Delta
>> Mk IIIC
>> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>>
>> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be
>> unhappy.
>> - Groucho Marx
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 12
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Rick,
I went to the same page, but purchased the Turbo Cad 15
version. Was only 12.95 including shipping and it's Windows 7 compatible.
I haven't done much with it yet, but it did install and I moved a few lines
around etc.
Jerry Folkerts
SR2500 #093
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of b d
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: TurboCAD 10
Rick . . . are you running into that 32/64 bit delema thing? I don't know
but I know some 32 bit programs won't run on 64 . . .hence win 7 and Vista
maybe? I'm only guessing . . . shooting in the dark . . .aiming for Bill
Gates but still missing . . .how much was TC 10?
Bruce
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
Recently there was a post about cheap TC version 10. I ordered it and got it
yesterday. This version of the software won't run on anything later than
Windows XP. I've spent about two hours trying to find a compatibility mode
that will let it run on my Windows Vista Lap top to no avail. Anyone know of
a patch?
Rick Girard
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 13
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Which version did you get?
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:03 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bruce, $14 including shipping.
>
> Rick
>
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:01 PM, b d <gpabruce@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Rick . . . are you running into that 32/64 bit delema thing? I don't
>> know but I know some 32 bit programs won't run on 64 . . .hence win 7 and
>> Vista maybe? I'm only guessing . . . shooting in the dark . . .aiming for
>> Bill Gates but still missing . . .how much was TC 10?
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Recently there was a post about cheap TC version 10. I ordered it and
>>> got it yesterday. This version of the software won't run on anything later
>>> than Windows XP. I've spent about two hours trying to find a compatibility
>>> mode that will let it run on my Windows Vista Lap top to no avail. Anyone
>>> know of a patch?
>>>
>>> Rick Girard
>>>
>>> --
>>> Zulu Delta
>>> Mk IIIC
>>> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>>>
>>> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be
>>> unhappy.
>>> - Groucho Marx
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>>> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>> *
>>
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Zulu Delta
> Mk IIIC
> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>
> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
> - Groucho Marx
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
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