---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/23/11: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:08 AM - Re: ATTN:gpabruce,aslsa,ainut (dfritzj) 2. 05:05 AM - Re: ATTN:gpabruce,aslsa,ainut & raymond (b d) 3. 05:26 AM - Re: ATTN:gpabruce,aslsa,ainut & raymond (Bill Bradburry) 4. 06:26 AM - List decorum (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 06:32 AM - Re: ATTN:gpabruce,aslsa,ainut (Jared Yates) 6. 06:47 AM - Re: shields (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 07:03 AM - Re: List decorum (James Robinson) 8. 07:04 AM - Re: Lightening up Z12 (rvg8tor) 9. 08:09 AM - Re: Cool! (Speedy11@aol.com) 10. 10:24 AM - Re: ATTN:gpabruce,aslsa,ainut & raymond (David) 11. 10:24 AM - cad or cad-like program? (David) 12. 10:38 AM - Re: Shielding (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 10:49 AM - Re: List decorum (Fred Klein) 14. 12:11 PM - Re: List decorum (b d) 15. 12:31 PM - D-Sub and other small connections (messydeer) 16. 02:04 PM - Re: List decorum (rayj) 17. 03:05 PM - Re: List decorum (David) 18. 04:14 PM - Re: List decorum (Henador Titzoff) 19. 05:55 PM - Re: List decorum (b d) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:08:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ATTN:gpabruce,aslsa,ainut From: dfritzj Isn't shielded wire supposed to keep the noise off communication lines..... ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:00 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ATTN:gpabruce,aslsa,ainut & raymond From: b d Furgusmaycomeandcheckoutyourwastepaperbaskettomakesureyouusedeverysquareinc hoftoiletpaperanddidn'twasteanylinesorleaveaplethoraofemptyspaces. bruce On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:57 PM, Jared Yates wrote: > I > Also > Used > 3 > Extra > Sheets > Of > Tp > today > But > I > Still > Don't > Know > Anything > More > About > Shielded > Wires. > > > On Apr 22, 2011, at 15:41, Fergus Kyle wrote: > > Folks, > > I have just read today=92s list of messages. The plethora (a numb er > of pleths) of unnecessary empty or repeated > > lines is staggering. > > A kudos to those who are succinct and unwasteful of space but > those above take note: > > The number of lines needed/number of lines taken > > gpa bruce 1 / 144 > > aslsa 2 / 264 > > jared 2 / 72 > > ainut 3 / 161 > > aslsa 2 / 200 > > Raymond 12/ 244 > > That=92s 22 lines of info and 1085 lines of explanation, most of > which are empty or nonsensical. In one case 4 lines produced 464 of > scrolling > > > * > > ======================== > st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > ======================== > ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > ======================== > http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion > ======================== > * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:40 AM PST US From: "Bill Bradburry" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ATTN:gpabruce,aslsa,ainut & raymond Guys, You can go to Craigslist and select "jokes" if you want to waste time. This is a serious list. It has enabled me to build a flying airplane with a safe electrical system over a period of many years. I would not have wanted to have my time wasted with this BS and I doubt that the folks still building do either. Please stop! Bill B _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of b d Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:00 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ATTN:gpabruce,aslsa,ainut & raymond Furgusmaycomeandcheckoutyourwastepaperbaskettomakesureyouusedeverysquareinch oftoiletpaperanddidn'twasteanylinesorleaveaplethoraofemptyspaces. bruce On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:57 PM, Jared Yates wrote: I Also Used 3 Extra Sheets Of Tp today But I Still Don't Know Anything More About Shielded Wires. On Apr 22, 2011, at 15:41, Fergus Kyle wrote: Folks, I have just read today's list of messages. The plethora (a number of pleths) of unnecessary empty or repeated lines is staggering. A kudos to those who are succinct and unwasteful of space but those above take note: The number of lines needed/number of lines taken gpa bruce 1 / 144 aslsa 2 / 264 jared 2 / 72 ainut 3 / 161 aslsa 2 / 200 Raymond 12/ 244 That's 22 lines of info and 1085 lines of explanation, most of which are empty or nonsensical. In one case 4 lines produced 464 of scrolling ========= st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ========= ums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com ========= http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========= ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:52 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: List decorum At 07:59 AM 4/23/2011, you wrote: >Furgusmaycomeandcheckoutyourwastepaperbaskettomakesureyouusedeverysquareinchoftoiletpaperanddidn'twasteanylinesorleaveaplethoraofemptyspaces. >bruce > Okay folks. We've all known Fergus for a whole lot of years here on the List. He attended a weekend seminar I presented in the Toronto area some years ago. I spent a pleasant evening across the dinner table from him and his wife. I don't think he's got a vindictive bone in his body. At the same time, we've all observed how easy it is to assign emotional weight to written words that has nothing to do with the spirit and intent of the writer. Some of you have come down pretty hard on me in past years based on some mis-interpretation of my spirit and intent. I have observed there are but 4 reasons that humans communicate with each other. To inform, entertain, constructively persuade, or to bully. The first three goals are always useful amongst honorable people. Bullying has no useful purpose except to speaker/writer who takes personal pleasure in the discomfort of others. When you write for this list, please be mindful of the intent for your choice of words. And let us give the benefit of the doubt to others . . . we may not be perfect in our communications skills but out of thousands of participants over 10+ years on the AeroElectric-List, we have encountered very few bullies . . . and they were asked to leave. The probability that anyone is deliberately practicing the bully's arts is very low. At the same time, a population of 1600 members on the List offers a high potential for misunderstanding. We study the simple-ideas that go into recipes for success in the aviation technologies for the benefit of any who which to participate. There are also simple-ideas in human behavior that come together nicely as recipes for success in the conduct of a civilized society. I'd like to believe that we who take the limits and capabilities of airplanes very seriously are equally respectful of the limits and capabilities of our fellow pilots. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ATTN:gpabruce,aslsa,ainut From: Jared Yates When do you hook up both ends of the shield vs just one end? Can you run a left and right audio channel in a two-wire shielded cable, or do they need to be separated? Does the Garmin lo go to the shield of the high, or do both get their own shields? Two wires in the same shield, or two separate singles? On Apr 23, 2011, at 6:04, dfritzj wrote: > > Isn't shielded wire supposed to keep the noise off communication lines..... > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:12 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: shields At 09:29 AM 4/23/2011, you wrote: > >When do you hook up both ends of the shield vs just one end? When the installation instructions for the system's components call for it. > Can you run a left and right audio channel in a two-wire shielded > cable, or do they need to be separated? They can share the bundle. > Does the Garmin lo go to the shield of the high, or do both get > their own shields? Two wires in the same shield, or two separate singles? Shielding of wires has a VERY limited utility in fabricating our airplanes. The effect of a shield is to break the potential for CAPACITIVE coupling of a high-intensity, fast-rise time antagonistic stimulus into a potential victim small signal pathway. A pair of small wires tightly twisted together have an inter-wire capacitance on the order of 1 PICOFARAD per inch. A very tiny capacitance. It takes a butt-ugly signal of very large magnitude to push across that a few pico-farads of inter-wire capacitance. Those kinds of antagonists were rare behind the panel in years past (magneto p-leads which were always shielded). With the advent of electronic ignition systems, those leads have become less to non-antagonistic. You could wire your entire system with unshielded, twisted trios or pairs with a high probability for success. In some, rare instances, the shield is ALSO a signal or ground pathway between black boxes and the installation wiring diagram will be explicit in the termination of the shield at both ends. In all other cases, connection at one end only is quite sufficient . . . and should you choose NOT to shield the wire, the probability of unwelcome behaviors from the system is very, very low. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:04 AM PST US From: James Robinson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: List decorum Very well put Bob!!! Jim James Robinson Glasair lll N79R Spanish Fork UT U77 ________________________________ From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Sat, April 23, 2011 6:21:17 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: List decorum At 07:59 AM 4/23/2011, you wrote: >Furgusmaycomeandcheckoutyourwastepaperbaskettomakesureyouusedeverysquareinchoftoiletpaperanddidn'twasteanylinesorleaveaplethoraofemptyspaces. >. > bruce > Okay folks. We've all known Fergus for a whole lot of years here on the List. He attended a weekend seminar I presented in the Toronto area some years ago. I spent a pleasant evening across the dinner table from him and his wife. I don't think he's got a vindictive bone in his body. At the same time, we've all observed how easy it is to assign emotional weight to written words that has nothing to do with the spirit and intent of the writer. Some of you have come down pretty hard on me in past years based on some mis-interpretation of my spirit and intent. I have observed there are but 4 reasons that humans communicate with each other. To inform, entertain, constructively persuade, or to bully. The first three goals are always useful amongst honorable people. Bullying has no useful purpose except to speaker/writer who takes personal pleasure in the discomfort of others. When you write for this list, please be mindful of the intent for your choice of words. And let us give the benefit of the doubt to others . . . we may not be perfect in our communications skills but out of thousands of participants over 10+ years on the AeroElectric-List, we have encountered very few bullies . . . and they were asked to leave. The probability that anyone is deliberately practicing the bully's arts is very low. At the same time, a population of 1600 members on the List offers a high potential for misunderstanding. We study the simple-ideas that go into recipes for success in the aviation technologies for the benefit of any who which to participate. There are also simple-ideas in human behavior that come together nicely as recipes for success in the conduct of a civilized society. I'd like to believe that we who take the limits and capabilities of airplanes very seriously are equally respectful of the limits and capabilities of our fellow pilots. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:31 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Lightening up Z12 From: "rvg8tor" Thought I would follow up with a picture. I decided to attach the standby alternator B lead on the downstream side of the ANL since it was more substantial than the screw on the shunt. If the screws on the shunt were to work loose there is a tight enough fit that the copper bar should stay in place and provide some conductivity. In the drawing in the second post of this thread, the standby B lead was attached at the shunt. Ring on terminal on the left is the standby B lead and the main is on the right of the ANL. Cheers -------- Mike "Nemo" Elliott RV-8A QB (Fuselage) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337903#337903 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:24 AM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Cool! Dormant in comparison to the past 6 to 8 years. Stan In a message dated 4/23/2011 3:04:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, aeroelectric-list@matronics.com writes: Not dormant at all. Check the web forum link below and your spam filters. john On 4/22/2011 9:09 AM, Speedy11@aol.com wrote: > This forum seemed to go dormant for about 6-8 months. I'm glad to see > lots of discussion again. > Stan Sutterfield ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:05 AM PST US From: David Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ATTN:gpabruce,aslsa,ainut & raymond Jeez, Bill, can't we lighten up SOMETIMES?? A little humor break is welcomed by me now and then. David Bill Bradburry wrote: > > Guys, > > You can go to Craigslist and select jokes if you want to waste time. > > This is a serious list. It has enabled me to build a flying airplane > with a safe electrical system over a period of many years. I would not > have wanted to have my time wasted with this BS and I doubt that the > folks still building do either. > > Please stop! > > Bill B > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *b d > *Sent:* Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:00 AM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com; VE3LVO@rac.ca > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: ATTN:gpabruce,aslsa,ainut & raymond > > Furgusmaycomeandcheckoutyourwastepaperbaskettomakesureyouusedeverysquareinchoftoiletpaperanddidn'twasteanylinesorleaveaplethoraofemptyspaces. > > bruce > > > On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:57 PM, Jared Yates > wrote: > > I > > Also > > Used > > 3 > > Extra > > Sheets > > O > <<>> -- If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid of Soros. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:05 AM PST US From: David Subject: AeroElectric-List: cad or cad-like program? Anyone know of a cad or cad-like program that we could use to model our electrical system? It would be great if it could simulate loads and help me know if my breaker is large enough or my wire has enough ampacity. Better still would be to suggest which size breaker or wire to use. Could we possibly 'standardize' on a model share format so that we could send each other our schematics for comment? David M. -- If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid of Soros. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:11 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Shielding At 06:04 AM 4/23/2011, you wrote: > >Isn't shielded wire supposed to keep the noise off communication lines..... Sorta . . . I'll refer you to chapter 16 on noise but in a nutshell . . . While the term "noise" usually conjures up an image of un-useful things heard in the headphones, audible interference is but a small subset of antagonistic stimulus finding its way into a potentially vulnerable victims. Not all things electrically 'wiggly' are noise. A a potentially antagonistic stimulus does not become noise until a potential victim is sufficiently influenced by it that performance is unacceptable. This is why the chapter on 'noise' is entitled "Electromagnetic Compatibility". The broader spectrum of examples for 'noise' might include instruments that don't quite read right, ignition systems that "mis", panel lights that flicker, etc. Further, just because an airplane is carrying around one or more potential antagonists and perhaps a handful of potential victims is not an automatic recipe for failure. The noise must have a propagation mode. It can be directly connected (trash on the power supply, ground loop, etc), radiated (ammeter lays over by radio energy from transmitter), capacitively coupled (high voltage, spikey waveforms couple to parallel wires in the bundle), and inductively (high current, spikey waveforms couple to parallel wires). Of the four modes cited, capacitive and inductive coupling are the weakest. I've never fixed a noise problem in a system by adding shield. I've encountered magnetically coupled noises three times I can recall. Once on a Beechjet, once on a Hawker 800 and once on my Plymouth Voyager. The rest of my ventures into the dragon's lair were to find and sometimes fix conducted and radiated propagation issues. But know that for the kinds of potential noises and the manner in which our itty-bitty airplanes are built, shielding is the very least of your worries. Follow manufacturer's instructions. If a noise problem emerges, the last portal to open to the dragon's lair will be that of shielding. Bob . . . is the weakest and least Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:16 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: List decorum On Apr 23, 2011, at 5:21 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > When you write for this list, please be mindful > of the intent for your choice of words. Thank you Bob, Not to belabor the point, but rather to finish off this topic on a high note, I offer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzgzim5m7oU&feature=youtube_gdata_player Fred do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: List decorum From: b d Don't you love it when the Bully accuses the other of being the Bully? And those who want to defend the Bully who started the Bullyism? If you're worried about using up cyber bits and bytes and spaces, you could lead by example and stop yourself. Some people are just full of themselves. Now see if you can not reply and that will end this stupid rant about saving cyber space only when someone else is conversing. Bruce On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 5:21 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 07:59 AM 4/23/2011, you wrote: > >> >> Furgusmaycomeandcheckoutyourwastepaperbaskettomakesureyouusedeverysquareinchoftoiletpaperanddidn'twasteanylinesorleaveaplethoraofemptyspaces. >> bruce >> >> > Okay folks. We've all known Fergus for a whole lot of > years here on the List. He attended a weekend seminar > I presented in the Toronto area some years ago. I > spent a pleasant evening across the dinner table > from him and his wife. I don't think he's got a > vindictive bone in his body. > > At the same time, we've all observed how easy it > is to assign emotional weight to written words > that has nothing to do with the spirit and intent > of the writer. Some of you have come down pretty > hard on me in past years based on some mis-interpretation > of my spirit and intent. > > I have observed there are but 4 reasons that > humans communicate with each other. To inform, > entertain, constructively persuade, or to > bully. > > The first three goals are always useful amongst > honorable people. Bullying has no useful > purpose except to speaker/writer who takes > personal pleasure in the discomfort of others. > When you write for this list, please be mindful > of the intent for your choice of words. > > And let us give the benefit of the doubt > to others . . . we may not be perfect in our > communications skills but out of thousands > of participants over 10+ years on the > AeroElectric-List, we have encountered > very few bullies . . . and they were asked > to leave. The probability that anyone is > deliberately practicing the bully's arts > is very low. At the same time, a population > of 1600 members on the List offers a high > potential for misunderstanding. > > We study the simple-ideas that go into > recipes for success in the aviation technologies > for the benefit of any who which to participate. > There are also simple-ideas in human behavior > that come together nicely as recipes for > success in the conduct of a civilized society. > > I'd like to believe that we who take the > limits and capabilities of airplanes very > seriously are equally respectful of the > limits and capabilities of our fellow > pilots. > > > Bob . . . > > > do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:31:58 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: D-Sub and other small connections From: "messydeer" Hi! I'm a few to several months away from completing my Sonex. I have all of the wiring that goes through the firewall already installed, including my MGL Enigma. I got a used Collins TDR-950 transponder a week or so ago and now need to buy and install a radio, ELT and the audio. The transponder came only with the bare plastic 15 position single row card edge connector housing. I understand I'd need 15 card edge contacts to crimp or solder, then slide them into this housing. I'll need to connect the other end of most of the wires to a 9-pin male D-Sub connector. The MGL V10 (or V6) radio would also use a 9-pin D-sub connector. And even if the ELT and any audio devices use those connections, there still wouldn't be that many of them. So I am considering soldering all the connections instead of crimping. I feel fairly comfortable with soldering and wouldn't have to buy a $30-40 crimp tool. I've read that soldering underneath the panel isn't fun, which could be needed for any changes made later. Seems I'd be able to pull both ends of the wires out and do this out of the plane. Anything else I'd need to consider? There don't seem to be any solder cup card edge contacts at digikey, unless I want to buy 5,000 of them. I'd just crimp the 15 wires with the open barrel edge contacts with needle nose pliers, right? As far as the D-Sub connector, is there an advantage to using a plastic hood to cover the end? Seems some heatshrink would make for a good strain relief fitting. Any comments appreciated. Below is a pic of the card edge contact at digikey. -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337940#337940 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/card_edge_contact_134.jpg ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:34 PM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: List decorum Bob, I believe "to deceive" could be added to the list. But this is not a topic that that adds to anyone's electron herding skills. do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 04/23/2011 07:21 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: **snip** > I have observed there are but 4 reasons that > humans communicate with each other. To inform, > entertain, constructively persuade, or to > bully. **snip** ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:15 PM PST US From: David Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: List decorum I didn't think that post from Fergus was such a big deal. b d wrote: > Don't you love it when the Bully accuses the other of being the Bully? > And those who want to defend the Bully who started the Bullyism? If > you're worried about using up cyber bits and bytes and spaces, you > could lead by example and stop yourself. Some people are just full of > themselves. Now see if you can not reply and that will end this stupid > rant about saving cyber space only when someone else is conversing. > Bruce > > > On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 5:21 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III > > > wrote: > > > > > At 07:59 AM 4/23/2011, you wrote: > > Furgusmaycomeandcheckoutyourwastepaperbaskettomakesureyouusedeverysquareinchoftoiletpaperanddidn'twasteanylinesorleaveaplethoraofemptyspaces. > bruce > > > Okay folks. We've all known Fergus for a whole lot of > years here on the List. He attended a weekend seminar > I presented in the Toronto area some years ago. I > spent a pleasant evening across the dinner table > from him and his wife. I don't think he's got a > vindictive bone in his body. > > At the same time, we've all observed how easy it > is to assign emotional weight to written words > that has nothing to do with the spirit and intent > of the writer. Some of you have come down pretty > hard on me in past years based on some mis-interpretation > of my spirit and intent. > > I have observed there are but 4 reasons that > humans communicate with each other. To inform, > entertain, constructively persuade, or to > bully. > > The first three goals are always useful amongst > honorable people. Bullying has no useful > purpose except to speaker/writer who takes > personal pleasure in the discomfort of others. > When you write for this list, please be mindful > of the intent for your choice of words. > > And let us give the benefit of the doubt > to others . . . we may not be perfect in our > communications skills but out of thousands > of participants over 10+ years on the > AeroElectric-List, we have encountered > very few bullies . . . and they were asked > to leave. The probability that anyone is > deliberately practicing the bully's arts > is very low. At the same time, a population > of 1600 members on the List offers a high > potential for misunderstanding. > > We study the simple-ideas that go into > recipes for success in the aviation technologies > for the benefit of any who which to participate. > There are also simple-ideas in human behavior > that come together nicely as recipes for > success in the conduct of a civilized society. > > I'd like to believe that we who take the > limits and capabilities of airplanes very > seriously are equally respectful of the > limits and capabilities of our fellow > pilots. > , 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, > ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List" > target="_blank"======== > http://forums.mle, List Admin. > ==== > > > > > do not archive > > * > > > * -- If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid of Soros. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:50 PM PST US From: Henador Titzoff Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: List decorum Neither did I, David. -In fact, I thought he was trying to improve our co mmunication. -I also liked the post by Dj saying that we've had gentle re minders over the years, and it makes searching the archives a major PITA. =0A=0AAnd finally, I liked the post by Raymond J. asking to add "to deceive " to Bob's list.=0A=0AHenador Titzoff=0A=0A=0A_____________________________ ___=0AFrom: David =0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 5:45 PM=0ASubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ology.net>=0A=0AI didn't think that post from Fergus was such a big deal. =0A=0A=0A=0Ab d wrote:=0A> Don't you love it when the Bully accuses the oth er of being the Bully? And those who want to defend the Bully who started t he Bullyism? If you're worried about using up cyber bits and bytes and spac es, you could lead by example and stop yourself. Some people are just full of themselves. Now see if you can not reply and that will end this stupid r ant about saving cyber space only when someone else is conversing.=0A> Bruc e=0A> =0A> =0A> On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 5:21 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III > wrote: lls, III"=0A>- - >=0A> =0A>- - At 07:59 AM 4/23/2011, you wrote:=0A> =0A>- - - - Furgusmaycomeandcheckoutyourwastepaperbaskettomakesure youusedeverysquareinchoftoiletpaperanddidn'twasteanylinesorleaveaplethoraof emptyspaces.=0A>- - - - bruce=0A> =0A> =0A>- - - Okay folks. We've all known Fergus for a whole lot of=0A>- - - years here on the List. He attended a weekend seminar=0A>- - - I presented in the Toro nto area some years ago. I=0A>- - - spent a pleasant evening across t he dinner table=0A>- - - from him and his wife. I don't think he's go t a=0A>- - - vindictive bone in his body.=0A> =0A>- - - At the same time, we've all observed how easy it=0A>- - - is to assign emoti onal weight to written words=0A>- - - that has nothing to do with the spirit and intent=0A>- - - of the writer. Some of you have come down pretty=0A>- - - hard on me in past years based on some mis-interpret ation=0A>- - - of my spirit and intent.=0A> =0A>- - - I have ob served there are but 4 reasons that=0A>- - - humans communicate with each other. To inform,=0A>- - - entertain, constructively persuade, o r to=0A>- - - bully.=0A> =0A>- - - The first three goals are al ways useful amongst=0A>- - - honorable people. Bullying has no useful =0A>- - - purpose except to speaker/writer who takes=0A>- - - p ersonal pleasure in the discomfort of others.=0A>- - - When you write for this list, please be mindful=0A>- - - of the intent for your cho ice of words.=0A> =0A>- - - And let us give the benefit of the doubt =0A>- - - to others . . . we may not be perfect in our=0A>- - - communications skills but out of thousands=0A>- - - of participants over 10+ years on the=0A>- - - AeroElectric-List, we have encountered =0A>- - - very few bullies . . . and they were asked=0A>- - - t o leave. The probability that anyone is=0A>- - - deliberately practic ing the bully's arts=0A>- - - is very low. At the same time, a popula tion=0A>- - - of 1600 members on the List offers a high=0A>- - - potential for misunderstanding.=0A> =0A>- - - We study the simple -ideas that go into=0A>- - - recipes for success in the aviation tech nologies=0A>- - - for the benefit of any who which to participate.=0A >- - - There are also simple-ideas in human behavior=0A>- - - t hat come together nicely as recipes for=0A>- - - success in the condu ct of a civilized society.=0A> =0A>- - - I'd like to believe that we who take the=0A>- - - limits and capabilities of airplanes very=0A> - - - seriously are equally respectful of the=0A>- - - limits a nd capabilities of our fellow=0A>- - - pilots.=0A>- - , 7-Day Br owse, Chat, FAQ,=0A>- - ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroEle ctric-List"=0A>- - target="_blank"==========0A>- - http://forums.mle, List Admin.=0A>- - ======0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>- - =0A> =0A> do not archive=0A > =0A> *=0A> =0A> =0A> *=0A=0A-- If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid of Sor =========================0A ====================== ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:54 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: List decorum From: b d It wasn't nor was what he was complaining about a big deal . . . it didn't even require a comment let alone a rude comment. See how many spaces and lines have been used since? On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 2:45 PM, David wrote: > > I didn't think that post from Fergus was such a big deal. > > > b d wrote: > >> Don't you love it when the Bully accuses the other of being the Bully? And >> those who want to defend the Bully who started the Bullyism? If you're >> worried about using up cyber bits and bytes and spaces, you could lead by >> example and stop yourself. Some people are just full of themselves. Now see >> if you can not reply and that will end this stupid rant about saving cyber >> space only when someone else is conversing. >> Bruce >> >> >> On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 5:21 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < >> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com > >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> >> At 07:59 AM 4/23/2011, you wrote: >> >> >> Furgusmaycomeandcheckoutyourwastepaperbaskettomakesureyouusedeverysquareinchoftoiletpaperanddidn'twasteanylinesorleaveaplethoraofemptyspaces. >> bruce >> >> >> Okay folks. We've all known Fergus for a whole lot of >> years here on the List. He attended a weekend seminar >> I presented in the Toronto area some years ago. I >> spent a pleasant evening across the dinner table >> from him and his wife. I don't think he's got a >> vindictive bone in his body. >> >> At the same time, we've all observed how easy it >> is to assign emotional weight to written words >> that has nothing to do with the spirit and intent >> of the writer. Some of you have come down pretty >> hard on me in past years based on some mis-interpretation >> of my spirit and intent. >> >> I have observed there are but 4 reasons that >> humans communicate with each other. To inform, >> entertain, constructively persuade, or to >> bully. >> >> The first three goals are always useful amongst >> honorable people. Bullying has no useful >> purpose except to speaker/writer who takes >> personal pleasure in the discomfort of others. >> When you write for this list, please be mindful >> of the intent for your choice of words. >> >> And let us give the benefit of the doubt >> to others . . . we may not be perfect in our >> communications skills but out of thousands >> of participants over 10+ years on the >> AeroElectric-List, we have encountered >> very few bullies . . . and they were asked >> to leave. The probability that anyone is >> deliberately practicing the bully's arts >> is very low. At the same time, a population >> of 1600 members on the List offers a high >> potential for misunderstanding. >> >> We study the simple-ideas that go into >> recipes for success in the aviation technologies >> for the benefit of any who which to participate. >> There are also simple-ideas in human behavior >> that come together nicely as recipes for >> success in the conduct of a civilized society. >> >> I'd like to believe that we who take the >> limits and capabilities of airplanes very >> seriously are equally respectful of the >> limits and capabilities of our fellow >> pilots. >> , 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, >> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List" >> target="_blank"======== >> http://forums.mle, List Admin. >> ==== >> >> >> >> >> >> do not archive >> >> * >> >> >> * >> > > -- > If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and > get rid of Soros. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.