Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:50 AM - Re: D-Sub and other small connections (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 12:54 PM - Re: Flap System trouble shoot (jonlaury)
3. 12:58 PM - Re: D-Sub and other small connections (messydeer)
4. 03:54 PM - Re: Re: D-Sub and other small connections (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 04:02 PM - Re: Re: Flap System trouble shoot (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 05:06 PM - Re: list decorum (Glen Matejcek)
7. 05:12 PM - Re: D-Sub and other small connections (Etienne Phillips)
8. 05:44 PM - Re: Re: shields (Jared Yates)
9. 05:47 PM - Re: Re: Flap System trouble shoot (Richard E. Tasker)
10. 06:01 PM - Re: Re: list decorum (b d)
11. 08:02 PM - Re: Flap System trouble shoot (jonlaury)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: D-Sub and other small connections |
I feel fairly comfortable with soldering and wouldn't have to buy a
$30-40 crimp tool. I've read that soldering underneath the panel
isn't fun, which could be needed for any changes made later. Seems
I'd be able to pull both ends of the wires out and do this out of the
plane. Anything else I'd need to consider?
Soldered d-subs can be most adequate to the
task . . . but except for those that go to
etched circuit boards, I've not soldered one
in decades. I would think that you could do
all of your harness work out of the airplane.
There don't seem to be any solder cup card edge contacts at digikey,
unless I want to buy 5,000 of them. I'd just crimp the 15 wires with
the open barrel edge contacts with needle nose pliers, right?
Please don't. The b-crimp tools are pretty specific
in their design and function for getting a good grip
on the wires. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/matenlok/matenlok.html
As far as the D-Sub connector, is there an advantage to using a
plastic hood to cover the end? Seems some heatshrink would make for a
good strain relief fitting.
Actually, heat shrink is only a marginal strain
relief because it too is flexible. Hoods are
always a good idea unless the bundle is
to be supported by other means within a few
inches of connector.
Any comments appreciated. Below is a pic of the card edge contact at digikey.
Why not get the better tools, finish the job with
a higher degree of confidence and then sell the
tools? There are probably folks here on the List
that would take them off your hands for $10 less
than you paid for them . . . which means that you
get to 'rent' the real-deal for $10 a shot.
The cost of using better tools and processes
will seem insignificant compared to the $time$
it will take to find a pin that has become
detached AFTER you've installed it.
At this time I am struggling with the installation
of a new radio in my truck . . . normally a simple
cut-out-the-old-connector-splice-in-a-new-connector
endeavor. But an intermittent pin in one of two
connectors in series has caused me to cut out a
perfectly good connector and splice around it
before zeroing in on a bad pin in a NEW connector
that mates with the back of the radio.
Now, if I'd paid $30 extra for the radio and had
Best Buy install it, I would have save about 5 hours,
two weeks delay and lots of cursing and crying out
in the darkness.
It goes to the interesting question of "when does
the bargain cease to be a bargain?" The numbers of
folk who have regretted using the right tool is
probably zero. The folks who have regretted not using
the right tool are . . . well . . .
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Flap System trouble shoot |
Now in schematic form per Bob's suggestion.
Aircraft Extras FPS-plus nt schematic URL - http://www.aircraftextras.com/PDF-files/FPS-Plus-ntWebE.pdf
>
> It would be helpful to know more about the flap
> control system. What's the 'current limit' issue
> all about. Normally, flap system draws are pretty
> benign, 10A or less. What is it about your particular
> flap configuration that makes it "oversized" for
> the control system. What is the design goal for
> an "override switch"?
My flap motor draws 7.5 amps in a no load condition. The traces on the FPS-Plus
board are good for 10 amps. My flap extension speed is 140mph and I was concerned
that under load I would be near max. amperage of the FPS system. I opted
for more margin on flap motor current draw.
The manual flap switch is per AE's suggestion. Should the board in the FPS system
fry for whatever reason, I can bypass the system with the manual switch.
Per my original post, Pins 15 & 16 of the FPS are normally GRND. When the the FPS
flap switch is depressed, the selected function goes to 12v+. I have diodes
in the wires from 15 & 16 to the coils in an attempt to prevent the manual switch
(12v+) from shorting to ground. But whenever I press the manual switch, the
fuse blows.
I can't see why.
Any help appreciated.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337983#337983
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fps_trouble_shoot_131.pdf
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: D-Sub and other small connections |
Thanks, Bob :-)
> ...when does the bargain cease to be a bargain?
I'm certainly guilty of spending hours looking to save a few dollars. How much
is my time worth? More than that...or it should be.
Yet, I don't have an open barrel crimp tool. These may be the only 15 open barrel
contacts I'd crimp, all the others being d-sub. I see that Eclipse makes an
open barrel crimper, 300-035, which goes for $15-20. I'd be okay with that sitting
around in my tool box for a decade before using it again, or like you suggest,
passing it on to another builder. The other option would be to cutoff the
wings of the contact and just solder it to the wire. Wouldn't this work? Granted,
if I were to do 100 of them, it wouldn't be worth the time.
Also, I've seen on Frys.com that they have very cheap d-sub stuff made by Pan Pacific.
Is this fit to use, or would it be better to stick with the digikey suppliers?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337984#337984
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: D-Sub and other small connections |
> Wouldn't this work?
I have no way to assess your skill set nor
the outcome of using any particular product
outside its design goals without having
personally observed and considered the results . . .
> Granted, if I were to do 100 of them, it wouldn't be worth the time.
Your call my friend . . .
>Also, I've seen on Frys.com that they have very cheap d-sub stuff
>made by Pan Pacific. Is this fit to use, or would it be better to
>stick with the digikey suppliers?
How about B&C or Steinair?
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Flap System trouble shoot |
>
>My flap motor draws 7.5 amps in a no load condition. The traces on
>the FPS-Plus board are good for 10 amps. My flap extension speed is
>140mph and I was concerned that under load I would be near max.
>amperage of the FPS system. I opted for more margin on flap motor current draw.
Hmmmm . . . that's a REALLY big, no load draw.
Do you have any in-flight data on maximum draw?
>The manual flap switch is per AE's suggestion. Should the board in
>the FPS system fry for whatever reason, I can bypass the system with
>the manual switch.
What is the likelihood that having to make a no-flaps
landing presents a hazardous condition?
>Per my original post, Pins 15 & 16 of the FPS are normally GRND.
>When the the FPS flap switch is depressed, the selected function
>goes to 12v+. I have diodes in the wires from 15 & 16 to the coils
>in an attempt to prevent the manual switch (12v+) from shorting to
>ground. But whenever I press the manual switch, the fuse blows.
>
>I can't see why.
I can't see why either without a schematic
that describes functionality of the compoents
as-wired in your system.
I can tell you that if wired per the figure I
referenced in my last posting, the switch
in the figure becomes the manual switch. Automatic
commands could be tied in parallel with the manual
switch if you include the diodes you've described
to prevent back-flow into the grounded terminal
on the ECB assembly.
Are you sure your diodes are installed correclty?
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: list decorum |
Hey all- I would make the observation that while we all slip up periiodically,
and I myself do appreciate and enjoy most of the wit and intellect displayed in
this forum, our kind and generous host sends two emails to us all each and every
month. Among other things, these emails ask us to trim, not archive irrelevant
material, be polite, not engage in personal assaults, and otherwise not
waste his resources. At the very least it seems like a token attempt to abide
by his rules is not unreasonable, and I believe that is all Fergus was reminding
us about.
Nomex on, fetal position assumed... ;-)
and... do not archive
Glen Matejcek
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: D-Sub and other small connections |
On 23 Apr 2011, at 9:28 PM, messydeer wrote:
> I've read that soldering underneath the panel isn't fun, which could be needed
for any changes made later.
Hi Dan
Having spent in excess of 100 hours on my back in the front of my Citabria soldering
thin wires into small places, I can certainly add my voice to those who
suggest finding another solution. I am more comfortable soldering than crimping
for a variety of reasons, so your suggestion for making sure both ends of a
wire can come out would have helped me considerably. My main problem is that nearly
every instrument in my aeroplane is connected to everything other instrument,
so the harness would have to come out in one massive loom, but the routing
of the wires has formed a net around the supports for the panel. With more
planning I could have avoided that though.
I'd still suggest being able to get the harness out, as crimping (even with the
best tools available) in a cramped space on your back in the dark is probably
only slightly more fun than soldering, which in turn is only slightly better
than getting teeth pulled.
My 2c...
Etienne
Message 8
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Thanks Bob! I'm connecting the 9009 Audio Iso Amp, so I'm sort of on the
manufacturing team myself, and thus partly responsible for the
manufacturer's instructions. I'm at the phase of system integration, with
systems that don't necessarily have harmonious instructions. It has been a
fun detective project so far, but I'm hoping that I can get some advice from
more experienced folks on a couple of key points.
The impression that I get from your reply is that unless I'm counting on
using the shield as a specific conductor like a signal ground, it doesn't
really matter very much how I hook up the shields in the audio system. The
9009 documentation shows the Nav 1 audio input as a single conductor
shielded cable with the audio signal on the center conductor and the signal
ground on the shield. The Garmin wiring diagram that I have shows the audio
output hi and lo as a pair in a shielded cable, which is why I'm confused
about terminology. When they say lo, do they also mean signal ground, or
are the two something different?
If you have time to answer any more questions on this topic, I have a few
listed in my messages from a few days back. Here's a link to the message
board version:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=81010
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=81010>
I can also paste the other message again, but it's a long one, and since
some folks must have to pay by the line, I'll hold off unless you can't see
at the link.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Flap System trouble shoot |
You don't say which fuse is blowing. However, if everything is actually
connected exactly like the schematic shows no fuse should blow.
I suggest you carefully go over the actual connections to make sure that
everything is really connected as shown. I have had enough times when I
just knew that the connections were correct (of course they were
correct, I wired them!). Then when I examined everything more closely
found something reversed or connected to the wrong pin.
Good luck.
Dick Tasker
jonlaury wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "jonlaury"<jonlaury@impulse.net>
>
> Now in schematic form per Bob's suggestion.
> Aircraft Extras FPS-plus nt schematic URL - http://www.aircraftextras.com/PDF-files/FPS-Plus-ntWebE.pdf
>
>
>
>> It would be helpful to know more about the flap
>> control system. What's the 'current limit' issue
>> all about. Normally, flap system draws are pretty
>> benign, 10A or less. What is it about your particular
>> flap configuration that makes it "oversized" for
>> the control system. What is the design goal for
>> an "override switch"?
>>
>
> My flap motor draws 7.5 amps in a no load condition. The traces on the FPS-Plus
board are good for 10 amps. My flap extension speed is 140mph and I was concerned
that under load I would be near max. amperage of the FPS system. I opted
for more margin on flap motor current draw.
> The manual flap switch is per AE's suggestion. Should the board in the FPS system
fry for whatever reason, I can bypass the system with the manual switch.
>
> Per my original post, Pins 15& 16 of the FPS are normally GRND. When the the
FPS flap switch is depressed, the selected function goes to 12v+. I have diodes
in the wires from 15& 16 to the coils in an attempt to prevent the manual
switch (12v+) from shorting to ground. But whenever I press the manual switch,
the fuse blows.
>
> I can't see why.
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337983#337983
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/fps_trouble_shoot_131.pdf
>
>
>
--
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: list decorum |
Glen,
Your point is well taken and appreciated . . . but that's not how Fergus
put it . . . . .he made a list and pointed fingers and talked down to these
people, then he cried "Bully" when he got a response from me. A person has
the opportunity to speak nice or speak mean. Fergus chose to speak mean . .
. Fergus needs to be accountable and not be such a control freak . . . . to
be honest I thought this had gone away . . . I was willing to drop it but
now I would like to point out: "I'm still at the top of the list" yee hah!
do NOT archive or cry!
Bruce LOL
On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Glen Matejcek <aerobubba@earthlink.net>wrote:
> aerobubba@earthlink.net>
>
> Hey all- I would make the observation that while we all slip up
> periiodically, and I myself do appreciate and enjoy most of the wit and
> intellect displayed in this forum, our kind and generous host sends two
> emails to us all each and every month. Among other things, these emails ask
> us to trim, not archive irrelevant material, be polite, not engage in
> personal assaults, and otherwise not waste his resources. At the very least
> it seems like a token attempt to abide by his rules is not unreasonable, and
> I believe that is all Fergus was reminding us about.
>
> Nomex on, fetal position assumed... ;-)
>
> and... do not archive
>
>
> Glen Matejcek
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Flap System trouble shoot |
> Are you sure your diodes are installed correclty?
I'm pretty sure, without it being in front of me now.
The cathode (banded end) of the diode faces the coil of the relay.
And the FPS selector switch operates the FPS and flap motor in either direction
as intended. If a diode was backward, then power would not flow from 15 or 16
to the relay coil.
I also tested the diodes against a new one. They were identical. R is on the order
of 1500 K ohms, voltage drop is about .54
Dick Tasker said:
> You don't say which fuse is blowing. However, if everything is actually
> connected exactly like the schematic shows no fuse should blow.
The 5a (actually 2a for testing) for the manual switch is the one that blows.
I will re-check everything next time I'm at the hangar.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=338025#338025
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