Today's Message Index:
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1. 03:28 AM - Re: ATTN:gpabruce,aslsa,ainut & raymond (tomcostanza)
2. 04:22 AM - Re: Re: ATTN:gpabruce,aslsa,ainut & raymond (b d)
3. 07:03 AM - Re: Flap System trouble shoot (user9253)
4. 07:53 AM - Re: D-Sub and other small connections (messydeer)
5. 08:12 AM - Re: Flap System trouble shoot (Jeff Page)
6. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: D-Sub and other small connections (Paul Kuntz)
7. 03:11 PM - Re: Flap System trouble shoot (jonlaury)
8. 04:35 PM - Re: Re: D-Sub and other small connections (Etienne Phillips)
9. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: D-Sub and other small connections (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 05:41 PM - Re: Re: D-Sub and other small connections (Charlie England)
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Subject: | Re: ATTN:gpabruce,aslsa,ainut & raymond |
"Parse that in the Latin declension, and my point is still moot"
-Cliff Claven
> Furgusmaycomeandcheckoutyourwastepaperbaskettomakesureyouusedeverysquareinchoftoiletpaperanddidn'twasteanylinesorleaveaplethoraofemptyspaces.
> bruce
--------
Clear Skies,
Tom Costanza
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=338040#338040
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Subject: | Re: ATTN:gpabruce,aslsa,ainut & raymond |
"Cheers" to you too! :-)
Bruce
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:24 AM, tomcostanza
<Tom@costanzaandassociates.com>wrote:
> <Tom@CostanzaAndAssociates.com>
>
> "Parse that in the Latin declension, and my point is still moot"
> -Cliff Claven
>
>
> >
> Furgusmaycomeandcheckoutyourwastepaperbaskettomakesureyouusedeverysquareinchoftoiletpaperanddidn'twasteanylinesorleaveaplethoraofemptyspaces.
> > bruce
>
>
> --------
> Clear Skies,
> Tom Costanza
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=338040#338040
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Flap System trouble shoot |
Make sure that the manual switch is connected to the hot side of the relay coils
and not to the grounded side. And make sure that the switch is wired correctly.
Depending on the size of the relays, it is possible that high inrush current
is blowing a 2 amp fuse. Try a 5 amp. Or substitute a small 12 volt light bulb
for the fuse. If 12 volts are dropped across the light bulb, then there is
a short to ground someplace.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=338058#338058
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Subject: | Re: D-Sub and other small connections |
Thanks, guys :-)
I've used both B&C and Steinair before and would prefer to deal with either of
them, but they don't have the parts I'd need. I may see how soldering the 'crimp'
card edge contacts and if it doesn't work, switch to crimping.
Etienne, it sounds like both crimping and soldering under the panel is a pain,
but you would still choose soldering if you were to do it over again, assuming
you'd NOT be able to get the wires out?
Besides this transponder, I'll be getting and installing a COM radio, headset wiring,
and an ELT. After flying, I may install wingtip lights. Other than this,
all the wiring is already installed, including that for the EFIS. With any luck
I hope to not have to pull out a 'massive loom', since the avionics would
be last in, first out.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=338067#338067
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Subject: | Re: Flap System trouble shoot |
John,
If you have wired everything per your drawing, the fuse should not
blow, so look first for a wiring error.
After you get that fixed, there are two changes I suggest. In your
diagram, it looks like you are using a double pole switch for the
manual override. So with the switch in neutral position, there is no
ground to the relay coils. This means the automatic controller cannot
turn on the relays. Just delete that half of the switch and ground
that side of both relay coils to allow automatic control.
The other suggestion I have is to trade both the NC and NO connections
on the relays. As shown, when not energized, all the flap motor wires
have +12V. To energize, one of those wires is grounded. Perhaps
better is normally both wires grounded and when activated, one goes to
+12V. This way, if a wire shorts to the airframe, it would not
normally have power in it. Less likely to cause a fire ? In effect,
this reverses the operation of the relays, so you will need to switch
the wires to the flap motor, so it turns in the same direction as it
originally did.
Just to be sure, the switch you need is a single pole, double throw,
center off momentary switch for manual flap activation. If you
already have a double pole version, one side can be left unwired. The
aeroelectric switch type is 1-7.
Looks like a nifty flap controller. If I didn't have manual flaps, I
would be really tempted to order one.
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
> Time: 08:02:54 PM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Flap System trouble shoot
> From: "jonlaury" <jonlaury@impulse.net>
>
>> Are you sure your diodes are installed correclty?
>
>
> I'm pretty sure, without it being in front of me now.
> The cathode (banded end) of the diode faces the coil of the relay.
> And the FPS selector switch operates the FPS and flap motor in
> either direction
> as intended. If a diode was backward, then power would not flow from 15 or 16
> to the relay coil.
> I also tested the diodes against a new one. They were identical. R
> is on the order
> of 1500 K ohms, voltage drop is about .54
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: D-Sub and other small connections |
Dan,
I picked u a molex crimper part number
63811-1000<http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_304928_-1>,
which I ordered from Jameco Electronics. There are other vendors that carry
it as well. It has worked well for a variety of open-barrel type crimps
like the ones on your card edge. I didn't have one at first and was in a
hurry, so I tried hand crimping with small needle nose pliers, then
soldering, because I was in a hurry. Neither method produced results that I
was satisfied with, so I did what I should have done at the start -- ordered
a proper butt-cheek style crimper and worked on other things for few days
until it arrived. It's easy to use and produces a good crimp every time. I
quickly got the hang of picking the right size notch in the tool for the
size of the connector pin and wire being crimped.
Regards,
Paul Kuntz
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:49 AM, messydeer <messydeer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks, guys :-)
>
> I've used both B&C and Steinair before and would prefer to deal with either
> of them, but they don't have the parts I'd need. I may see how soldering the
> 'crimp' card edge contacts and if it doesn't work, switch to crimping.
>
> Etienne, it sounds like both crimping and soldering under the panel is a
> pain, but you would still choose soldering if you were to do it over again,
> assuming you'd NOT be able to get the wires out?
>
> Besides this transponder, I'll be getting and installing a COM radio,
> headset wiring, and an ELT. After flying, I may install wingtip lights.
> Other than this, all the wiring is already installed, including that for the
> EFIS. With any luck I hope to not have to pull out a 'massive loom', since
> the avionics would be last in, first out.
>
> --------
> Dan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=338067#338067
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Flap System trouble shoot |
Thank you all for your suggestions.
After pulling things apart and blowing a few more fuses, the thing started working
as intended. I was pulling off a relay coil spike-catcher diode, to see if
that would make a difference, and I inadvertently grounded the 14 ga + to the
flap motor and blew the 15a fuse. When I tried the FPS system, the flap motor
wouldn't run but the manual switch was now activating the relays. Same for the
FPS. I replaced the 15a fuse and s-c diode and everything works fine. I don't
know what was causing the problem, but I suspect some errant strand of wire
that was causing a dead short. Maybe the 15a got into it and vaporized it. In
soldering the diodes into the wire legs, I wrap the splice with a single strand
of fine wire to hold it in place while soldering. I suspect an errant piece
of this was lying across a coil terminal to ground invisible to these far-sighted
eyeballs.
I also disassembled the flap motor from the worm-drive jack screw because of Bob's
surprise at the 7.5a no-load draw. The motor by itself draws 2.4a. I thought
that maybe the jack screw mechanism was gummed up with old hard dried-up grease
so I disassembled it too. The grease was fresh and all parts turned easily.
Back together the motor still draws 7a +/-. Just the nature of this beast.
The Aircraft Extras Flap Positioning System works really well and is a breeze to
use. Highly recommended for those with electric flaps.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=338107#338107
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Subject: | Re: D-Sub and other small connections |
On 25 Apr 2011, at 4:49 PM, messydeer wrote:
> Etienne, it sounds like both crimping and soldering under the panel is
a pain, but you would still choose soldering if you were to do it over
again, assuming you'd NOT be able to get the wires out?
Yes... However, that's driven by some fairly unique factors. I've been
soldering almost daily since I was 6, and getting hold of decent
machined crimp pins for D-Subs are prohibitively expensive from here in
South Africa. I tried the cheap folded sheet pins, and they are
horrendous! My final choice was the solder-cup D-Subs, with heat-shrink
over each wire and a housing over the whole plug, supporting the wires
in a nice bundle. An entire 15-pin solder-cup D-Sub assembly is cheaper
than a single machined crimp pin here, and that's when ordering hundreds
of pins at a go, and excluding the cost of the required tooling! A point
to add is that the MGL V10 radio is supplied with a solder-cup plug.
If I were to do it over, I would still use the solder-cup d-subs, but
I'd make sure I could get the harness out. As it stands, I am able to
remove each instrument without any difficulty. Bear in mind too that
significant effort went into labelling each wire, and checking that it
was soldered correctly. So different choices for different people. Most
of the arguments I've heard for crimped pins (aside from the
repeatability for unskilled labour) revolves around being able to
shuffle the pins around. If the harness is made correctly the first
time, the amount of shuffling that needs to be done is minimal in most
cases.
The next consideration is the stiffening of the wire (bad for vibration
tolerance) around a soldered joint due to the solder wicking up into the
strands of the wire. Bob can comment specifically on this, but my
understanding is that if the wire is supported in the D-Sub housing,
there should be no additional concern over crimped pins in this regard.
In my aircraft, I can lose the entire electrical system with no
discomfort. I am day VFR only pilot, and have steam backups for the
airspeed, altimeter and engine indications. I also have a handheld
radio, no flaps, manual trim, fixed undercarriage, and twin magnetos. So
if any wire were to come loose, the heatshrink should stop it from
shorting out, but if it did then at worst it would pop a circuit
breaker, and I'd sort it out on the ground.
My solution to the transponder problem, if it were me, would be to
solder pigtails directly onto the card, leading to a 15- or 25-pin
D-Sub. This would eliminate those awful low-pressure card-edge
connectors that are nigh impossible to find now days. I would use a
flexible epoxy to cover the soldered joints onto the card to offer some
form of vibration relief on the hardened wire. This might mean modifying
the tray, but it would yield an easily disconnectable instrument. This
solution may very well have hidden dragons though, so I offer it for
peer review!
Thanks
Etienne
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: D-Sub and other small connections |
If I were to do it over, I would still use the solder-cup d-subs, but
I'd make sure I could get the harness out. As it stands, I am able to
remove each instrument without any difficulty.
In the heavy-iron factories, we endeavor to make each
instrument harness long enough that the connectors can
be mated up before the instrument is stuck in the hole
and mounted. There is NO way you lay on your back and
work behind the panel on a King Air or Beechjet.
Bear in mind too that significant effort went into labelling each
wire, and checking that it was soldered correctly. So different
choices for different people. Most of the arguments I've heard for
crimped pins (aside from the repeatability for unskilled labour)
revolves around being able to shuffle the pins around. If the harness
is made correctly the first time, the amount of shuffling that needs
to be done is minimal in most cases.
With reasonable care, the solder-cup connector
is perfectly suitable component. I published this
installation comic-book some years ago . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/dsubs/d_solder.html
The next consideration is the stiffening of the wire (bad for
vibration tolerance) around a soldered joint due to the solder
wicking up into the strands of the wire. Bob can comment specifically
on this, but my understanding is that if the wire is supported in the
D-Sub housing, there should be no additional concern over crimped
pins in this regard.
Behind-the-joints support on d-subs is necessary
whether the pins are soldered or crimped. Neither
pin technology offers insulation support behind
the pin-to-wire interface. The wire is just as
'solid' inside a crimped pin as it is on a soldered
pin. So use the hoods . . . or pot the back side
like . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/macservo/macservo.html
My solution to the transponder problem, if it were me, would be to
solder pigtails directly onto the card, leading to a 15- or 25-pin
D-Sub. This would eliminate those awful low-pressure card-edge
connectors that are nigh impossible to find now days. I would use a
flexible epoxy to cover the soldered joints onto the card to offer
some form of vibration relief on the hardened wire. This might mean
modifying the tray, but it would yield an easily disconnectable
instrument. This solution may very well have hidden dragons though,
so I offer it for peer review!
Been there, done that. Works good and lasts a long
time. You'll want to fabricate a bench test harness
to send along with your radio if it has to go to the
shop so the tech can power it up.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: D-Sub and other small connections |
On 4/25/2011 6:28 PM, Etienne Phillips wrote:
>
> On 25 Apr 2011, at 4:49 PM, messydeer wrote:
>
>> Etienne, it sounds like both crimping and soldering under the panel
>> is a pain, but you would still choose soldering if you were to do it
>> over again, assuming you'd NOT be able to get the wires out?
>
> Yes... However, that's driven by some fairly unique factors. I've been
> soldering almost daily since I was 6, and getting hold of decent
> machined crimp pins for D-Subs are prohibitively expensive from here
> in South Africa. I tried the cheap folded sheet pins, and they are
> horrendous! My final choice was the solder-cup D-Subs, with
> heat-shrink over each wire and a housing over the whole plug,
> supporting the wires in a nice bundle. An entire 15-pin solder-cup
> D-Sub assembly is cheaper than a single machined crimp pin here, and
> that's when ordering hundreds of pins at a go, and excluding the cost
> of the required tooling! A point to add is that the MGL V10 radio is
> supplied with a solder-cup plug.
>
> If I were to do it over, I would still use the solder-cup d-subs, but
> I'd make sure I could get the harness out. As it stands, I am able to
> remove each instrument without any difficulty. Bear in mind too that
> significant effort went into labelling each wire, and checking that it
> was soldered correctly. So different choices for different people.
> Most of the arguments I've heard /for/ crimped pins (aside from the
> repeatability for unskilled labour) revolves around being able to
> shuffle the pins around. If the harness is made correctly the first
> time, the amount of shuffling that needs to be done is minimal in most
> cases.
>
> The next consideration is the stiffening of the wire (bad for
> vibration tolerance) around a soldered joint due to the solder wicking
> up into the strands of the wire. Bob can comment specifically on this,
> but my understanding is that if the wire is supported in the D-Sub
> housing, there should be no additional concern over crimped pins in
> this regard.
>
> In my aircraft, I can lose the entire electrical system with no
> discomfort. I am day VFR only pilot, and have steam backups for the
> airspeed, altimeter and engine indications. I also have a handheld
> radio, no flaps, manual trim, fixed undercarriage, and twin magnetos.
> So if any wire were to come loose, the heatshrink should stop it from
> shorting out, but if it did then at worst it would pop a circuit
> breaker, and I'd sort it out on the ground.
>
> My solution to the transponder problem, if it were me, would be to
> solder pigtails directly onto the card, leading to a 15- or 25-pin
> D-Sub. This would eliminate those awful low-pressure card-edge
> connectors that are nigh impossible to find now days. I would use a
> flexible epoxy to cover the soldered joints onto the card to offer
> some form of vibration relief on the hardened wire. This might mean
> modifying the tray, but it would yield an easily disconnectable
> instrument. This solution may very well have hidden dragons though, so
> I offer it for peer review!
>
> Thanks
> Etienne
I've successfully soldered quite a few of the edge type pins pictured in
an earlier email; I just manually folded the shorter wings with needle
nose pliers, soldered, then manually wrapped the longer wings. Not a lot
of fun, but very 'do-able'. However, Etienne's solution makes even more
sense, as long as warranty isn't an issue.
By paying the price of an extra few ounces & some careful planning, you
can avoid diving under the panel for future soldering or crimping
sessions. Just make service loops & routing so the connectors can be
brought out into the cockpit, or even out over the wing for soldering
sessions.
Charlie
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