AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Wed 05/11/11


Total Messages Posted: 9



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 08:56 AM - Re: Modifying Seat Heater Wiring (MLWynn@aol.com)
     2. 09:30 AM - Re: Modifying Seat Heater Wiring ()
     3. 10:54 AM - Re: Modifying Seat Heater Wiring (Christopher SeaStone)
     4. 11:21 AM - Re: Modifying Seat Heater Wiring ()
     5. 11:35 AM - Lithium batteries redux (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     6. 01:28 PM - Re: Lithium batteries redux (Jeff Luckey)
     7. 03:01 PM - Re: Lithium batteries redux (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     8. 03:34 PM - Re: Lithium batteries redux (Jeff Luckey)
     9. 10:52 PM - Re: B&C fast-ons (jerb)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 08:56:36 AM PST US
    From: MLWynn@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Modifying Seat Heater Wiring
    Hi folks, I didn't understand that part of the heater current is running through the wires. I thought it was just controlling the relay. That being the case, I will definitely want to match the existing wires. Looks like time for a splice. The wires on the switch are somewhere around twenty gauge. The wire is automotive type, so it is a little hard for me to figure out exactly what size it is. If the max current draw is 5 amps, then twenty gauge ought to be fine. Thank you all for your insights. I will get to work. Regards, Michael Wynn RV 8 Wiring San Ramon, CA In a message dated 5/10/2011 8:06:57 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rv8iator@gmail.com writes: Michael, The pre-wired switch that is part of the heater package switches between 'hi' and 'low' and off. The relay switches the second heater element only. When hi is selected it energizes the relay coil to switch current to both the 'low' and 'hi' elements. The switch contacts only see the relatively low current of the low setting and the lower current of the relay coil. You can use a switch style CB to provide a means of disconnecting in the event of a malfunction, or a fuse and SPST switch. Chris On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 4:46 PM, <_MLWynn@aol.com_ (mailto:MLWynn@aol.com) > wrote: Hey Chris, I was going to use the relays and that part of the wiring. My issue is with the switch wiring. It is too short. I could spice in some length but thought I might as well solder at the switches and into their connector. You are probably right about the high setting. It's all I use in my car. I was just trying to figure the amperage going through the switch wiring. Should be negligible, since it just runs a relay. Thoughts? Michael Wynn In a message dated 5/10/2011 3:10:03 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, _rv8iator@gmail.com_ (mailto:rv8iator@gmail.com) writes: Hello Michael, The last RV-8 I built had the sports imports seat heaters. Each set (seat and back) require approx 100 watts. about 7 amps at 14v. You can re-wire but I recommend using their relay although any DPDT relay with contacts rated for at least 7 amps and a 14 volt continuous duty coil. You can substitute and SPDT switch rated for 7 amps or more for the high/low. Actually all you will use is Hi. The heaters work well but a warm flight suit is still required if you spend any time in cold air (below -10 C). Chris Stone Newberg OR RV-8 No 2 I am wiring up the seat heaters in my RV 8. I bought the option from Classic Aero when they made the seats. The heaters are carbon fiber and come from sports imports: _http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/carbon-fiber-seat-heater-kit.html_ (http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/carbon-fiber-seat-heater-kit.html) They are set up with a switch that operates a solid state relay of some sort. The factory supplied switch wiring does not work at all with where I need to put the switches so I was going to rewire them. I am assuming that the relays don't draw a lot of current. My question is what size wire to use. B&C has a nice four wire cable in 22 gauge. For a three foot run, that should be fine as long as we are talking a couple of amps or less. Has anyone measured the current draw for the switches in these seat heaters? Is there a simple way for me to do that? Maybe take a two ohm resistor, turn on the heater and measure the voltage drop across the resistor? Regards, Michael Wynn RV 8 Wiring San Ramon, CA ist" target="_blank">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List) tp://_forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) _blank">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) List href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List) ">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List) _ms.matronics.com/_ (http://ms.matronics.com/) ">_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) tp://_www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution)


    Message 2


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    Time: 09:30:09 AM PST US
    From: <longg@pjm.com>
    Subject: Modifying Seat Heater Wiring
    Do Not Archive Chris, Ah, you CA folks have it made. I can only wish. I did the heated seat thing last winter but wished I had used thinner wire (gets hotter faster) and wrapped it around my feet so I could rid myself of the two useless blocks of ice I call my legs. Heated seats are great and yes a great pair of shoes and a good flight suit are also necessary. If you fly a lot in the cold, adding an old fashioned forced air heater is "still" the best option. We'll it's May now and I'm beginning to get feeling back in my toes. Enjoy, Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MLWynn@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:53 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Modifying Seat Heater Wiring Hi folks, I didn't understand that part of the heater current is running through the wires. I thought it was just controlling the relay. That being the case, I will definitely want to match the existing wires. Looks like time for a splice. The wires on the switch are somewhere around twenty gauge. The wire is automotive type, so it is a little hard for me to figure out exactly what size it is. If the max current draw is 5 amps, then twenty gauge ought to be fine. Thank you all for your insights. I will get to work. Regards, Michael Wynn RV 8 Wiring San Ramon, CA In a message dated 5/10/2011 8:06:57 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rv8iator@gmail.com writes: Michael, The pre-wired switch that is part of the heater package switches between 'hi' and 'low' and off. The relay switches the second heater element only. When hi is selected it energizes the relay coil to switch current to both the 'low' and 'hi' elements. The switch contacts only see the relatively low current of the low setting and the lower current of the relay coil. You can use a switch style CB to provide a means of disconnecting in the event of a malfunction, or a fuse and SPST switch. Chris On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 4:46 PM, <_MLWynn@aol.com_ (mailto:MLWynn@aol.com) > wrote: Hey Chris, I was going to use the relays and that part of the wiring. My issue is with the switch wiring. It is too short. I could spice in some length but thought I might as well solder at the switches and into their connector. You are probably right about the high setting. It's all I use in my car. I was just trying to figure the amperage going through the switch wiring. Should be negligible, since it just runs a relay. Thoughts? Michael Wynn In a message dated 5/10/2011 3:10:03 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, _rv8iator@gmail.com_ (mailto:rv8iator@gmail.com) writes: Hello Michael, The last RV-8 I built had the sports imports seat heaters. Each set (seat and back) require approx 100 watts. about 7 amps at 14v. You can re-wire but I recommend using their relay although any DPDT relay with contacts rated for at least 7 amps and a 14 volt continuous duty coil. You can substitute and SPDT switch rated for 7 amps or more for the high/low. Actually all you will use is Hi. The heaters work well but a warm flight suit is still required if you spend any time in cold air (below -10 C). Chris Stone Newberg OR RV-8 No 2 I am wiring up the seat heaters in my RV 8. I bought the option from Classic Aero when they made the seats. The heaters are carbon fiber and come from sports imports: _http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/carbon-fiber-seat-heater-kit.html_ (http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/carbon-fiber-seat-heater-kit.html) They are set up with a switch that operates a solid state relay of some sort. The factory supplied switch wiring does not work at all with where I need to put the switches so I was going to rewire them. I am assuming that the relays don't draw a lot of current. My question is what size wire to use. B&C has a nice four wire cable in 22 gauge. For a three foot run, that should be fine as long as we are talking a couple of amps or less. Has anyone measured the current draw for the switches in these seat heaters? Is there a simple way for me to do that? Maybe take a two ohm resistor, turn on the heater and measure the voltage drop across the resistor? Regards, Michael Wynn RV 8 Wiring San Ramon, CA ist" target="_blank">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List) tp://_forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) _blank">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) List href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List) ">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List) _ms.matronics.com/_ (http://ms.matronics.com/) ">_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) tp://_www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution)


    Message 3


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    Time: 10:54:13 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Modifying Seat Heater Wiring
    From: Christopher SeaStone <rv8iator@gmail.com>
    > > Glen... > Heat in front is great... But haven't seen an acceptable way to get it to the rear seat. The motorcycle guys have full electric heated suits... socks and all !!! A bit like suiting up for a ride in the Sled! Here in Oregon... it's not the cold as much as the ice. Really don't want to be a test pilot for airframe ice studies... chris > > Do Not Archive > > Chris, > > Ah, you CA folks have it made. I can only wish. I did the heated seat thing > last winter but wished I had used thinner wire (gets hotter faster) and > wrapped it around my feet so I could rid myself of the two useless blocks of > ice I call my legs. > > Heated seats are great and yes a great pair of shoes and a good flight suit > are also necessary. > > If you fly a lot in the cold, adding an old fashioned forced air heater is > "still" the best option. > > We'll it's May now and I'm beginning to get feeling back in my toes. > > Enjoy, > > Glenn > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 11:21:25 AM PST US
    From: <longg@pjm.com>
    Subject: Modifying Seat Heater Wiring
    Chris, If your heating inlet control (inside the firewall) has an option for floor or defrost (front) you could Y off the floor outlet and send a 2" scat tube to the rear seat area - easiest/cheapest. The other option I've seen is to scavenge the heat off the oil cooler (through a shroud) and instead of sending it overboard run it through the firewall to the seating area. Treat this like you would an old car, remove shroud in summer. Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christopher SeaStone Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:39 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Modifying Seat Heater Wiring > > Glen... > Heat in front is great... But haven't seen an acceptable way to get it to the rear seat. The motorcycle guys have full electric heated suits... socks and all !!! A bit like suiting up for a ride in the Sled! Here in Oregon... it's not the cold as much as the ice. Really don't want to be a test pilot for airframe ice studies... chris > > Do Not Archive > > Chris, > > Ah, you CA folks have it made. I can only wish. I did the heated seat > thing last winter but wished I had used thinner wire (gets hotter > faster) and wrapped it around my feet so I could rid myself of the two > useless blocks of ice I call my legs. > > Heated seats are great and yes a great pair of shoes and a good flight > suit are also necessary. > > If you fly a lot in the cold, adding an old fashioned forced air > heater is "still" the best option. > > We'll it's May now and I'm beginning to get feeling back in my toes. > > Enjoy, > > Glenn > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 11:35:53 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Lithium batteries redux
    At 08:27 PM 5/10/2011, you wrote: >At 01:13 PM 5/10/2011, you wrote: > >>I would like to hear your Bob's or other folks comments about >>aviation use of the lithium batteries supplied here: >> >>http://www.lithiumaviationbattery.com/index.html >> >>they seem to offer signficant weight reduction I took the time to clean up my posting from earlier this morning on the topic of lithium batteries for OBAM aircraft. I've converted it to an article which can be accessed at: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Batteries/To_lithium_or_not_to_lithium.pdf As usual, constructive critical review is welcome. Bob . . .


    Message 6


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    Time: 01:28:11 PM PST US
    From: "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey@pacbell.net>
    Subject: Lithium batteries redux
    Bob, Thanks for the Li Batt summary. One issue: I can't remember what SLVA stands for. It would be nice if the first time you used it, that you parenthetically give us memory-challenged readers the full text. Transpositions: Second page, first complete paragraph on the right, you refer to it as SVLA (as opposed to SLVA). Second page, 5 th para Second page, 6 th para After Wikipedia did not have a listing for this FLA (four-letter Acronym), I Googled for a few seconds. Some of the results were rather humorous: Software Vendors License Agreement (that's what I thought of immediately, 'cause I'm a computer geek) Sri Lanka Veterinary Association (my favorite) Salt Lake Valley Atheists (my new favorite - the irony is too funny - Atheists in Utah/Mormons. No offense intended to Mormons) Thanks for making us all smarter, -Jeff _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:32 Subject: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries redux At 08:27 PM 5/10/2011, you wrote: At 01:13 PM 5/10/2011, you wrote: I would like to hear your Bob's or other folks comments about aviation use of the lithium batteries supplied here: http://www.lithiumaviationbattery.com/index.html they seem to offer signficant weight reduction I took the time to clean up my posting from earlier this morning on the topic of lithium batteries for OBAM aircraft. I've converted it to an article which can be accessed at: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Batteries/To_lithium_or_not_to_lithium.pdf As usual, constructive critical review is welcome. Bob . . .


    Message 7


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    Time: 03:01:48 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Lithium batteries redux
    At 04:22 PM 5/11/2011, you wrote: >Bob, > >Thanks for the Li Batt summary. > >One issue: I can't remember what SLVA stands for. It would be nice >if the first time you used it, that you parenthetically give us >memory-challenged readers the full text. Got my mouse cord tangled around my eye-teeth and couldn't see what I was typing. That's supposed to be (V)alve (R)egulated (L)ead-(A)cid or VRLA. A.K.A. recombinant gas, starved electrolyte, absorbed glas-mat, etc. > >Transpositions: >Second page, first complete paragraph on the right, you refer to it >as SVLA (as opposed to SLVA). >Second page, 5 th para >Second page, 6 th para Had it hosed several places. Found the spell checker in my word processor was contaminated. All is right with the world . . . and revision B posted a few minutes ago. Thanks for the heads-up! Bob . . .


    Message 8


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    Time: 03:34:59 PM PST US
    From: "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey@pacbell.net>
    Subject: Lithium batteries redux
    My pleasure! It's good to know that I wasn't having a "senior moment" (this time;) _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 14:55 Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries redux At 04:22 PM 5/11/2011, you wrote: Bob, Thanks for the Li Batt summary. One issue: I can=12t remember what SLVA stands for. It would be nice if the first time you used it, that you parenthetically give us memory-challenged readers the full text. Got my mouse cord tangled around my eye-teeth and couldn't see what I was typing. That's supposed to be (V)alve (R)egulated (L)ead-(A)cid or VRLA. A.K.A. recombinant gas, starved electrolyte, absorbed glas-mat, etc. Transpositions: Second page, first complete paragraph on the right, you refer to it as SVLA (as opposed to SLVA). Second page, 5 th para Second page, 6 th para Had it hosed several places. Found the spell checker in my word processor was contaminated. All is right with the world . . . and revision B posted a few minutes ago. Thanks for the heads-up! Bob . . .


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:52:29 PM PST US
    From: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: B&C fast-ons
    Try Altex Electronics - Dallas TX. You may have to call them but this is where I get most of my crimp on fasteners. They usually have a good price compared to most other sources. http://www.altex.com jerb >> >>Talking about Fast-ons, 1/4" female fast-ons seem easy to find, but >>I can't seem to locate male ones. >>Neil >>snip....




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