AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Fri 05/13/11


Total Messages Posted: 18



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:06 AM - garmin 195 (bob noffs)
     2. 05:35 AM - Re: garmin 195 (Steve Thomas)
     3. 07:04 AM - Re: garmin 195 (Ed Anderson)
     4. 07:47 AM - Re: garmin 195 (Werner Schneider)
     5. 07:51 AM - Extending capacitive fuel sensor lead? (James Kilford)
     6. 08:00 AM - Re: Lithium batteries redux (Noel Loveys)
     7. 08:41 AM - Re: transponder connections, grounding and RF interference (messydeer)
     8. 08:43 AM - Careful on the Google link garmin 195 (Ed Anderson)
     9. 08:45 AM - Re: garmin 195 (David Lloyd)
    10. 09:04 AM - Fw: Careful on the Google link garmin 195 (Ed Anderson)
    11. 09:47 AM - Re: garmin 195 (David Lloyd)
    12. 10:03 AM - Re: garmin 195 (Ed Anderson)
    13. 10:43 AM - Re: Lithium batteries redux (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    14. 10:45 AM - Re: Extending capacitive fuel sensor lead? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    15. 11:00 AM - Re: Glasair contactors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    16. 11:05 AM - Re: Extending capacitive fuel sensor lead? (James Kilford)
    17. 11:14 AM - Re: garmin 195 (David Lloyd)
    18. 09:26 PM - Re: Lithium batteries redux (Stuart Hutchison)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:06:49 AM PST US
    Subject: garmin 195
    From: bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com>
    a little off topics but.........i just acquired a garmin 195 to use for a backup . works fine. i cant figure out if any updates for unit software or database are available. anyone have recent experience with this unit? as it is vfr backup not much of a deal if no updates are available. bob noffs


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:35:31 AM PST US
    From: Steve Thomas <lists@stevet.net>
    Subject: Re: garmin 195
    I updated my Garmin 195 about 6 months ago, but haven't looked since. Contact Garmin. I think all you need to do is register the unit with them and then you can update it. Steve Thomas ________________________________________________________________________ On May 13, 2011, at 4:02 AM, bob noffs wrote: > a little off topics but.........i just acquired a garmin 195 to use for a backup . works fine. i cant figure out if any updates for unit software or database are available. anyone have recent experience with this unit? as it is vfr backup not much of a deal if no updates are available. > bob noffs > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:04:02 AM PST US
    From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: garmin 195
    Steve, I have had a Garmin 195 for over a decade. I got mine updated to around 2008 date/time when I went to 2010 Sun & Fun by a Garmin Vendor offer the update there at Sun & Fun for $60. They told me then that Garmin had decided to stop supporting the 195 and that 2008 was the last update there would be. I have not attempted to verify the accuracy of this statement. But, the last update did include the changes the FAA make to a lot of airport designators - since I had purchased my 195. So I felt it was a worthwhile update. I had purchased a more modern (non-Garmin) GPS which was more reasonably priced and was almost as feature rich (Had everything I needed), it used a Tablet Computer (a bit heavy) which eventually fell off my windshield suction cup mount, hit its face on the co-pilot stick and damaged the unit. When I reached over to pick it up the bottom was already almost too hot to hold. Fearing a runway battery short, I was about to slow down, open the canopy and jettison it over the side. But after whacking the case a couple of times, I apparently removed the shorting condition. Unfortunately, even though the tablet computer was the only part damaged ( I mean the code was software not firmware) , I could not get any sort of "deal" on replacing the HW and getting the code reloaded. So I have since removed that vendor from my GPS list. So now looking for an Garmin that I can afford as well as see {:>) I still fly with my 195 and will continue to keep it as back up. Even if not updated, its still a useful instrument, just naturally not to be relied for accuracy of Nav, airport or obstruction data. FWIW Ed From: Steve Thomas Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 8:30 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: garmin 195 I updated my Garmin 195 about 6 months ago, but haven't looked since. Contact Garmin. I think all you need to do is register the unit with them and then you can update it. Steve Thomas ________________________________________________________________________ On May 13, 2011, at 4:02 AM, bob noffs wrote: a little off topics but.........i just acquired a garmin 195 to use for a backup . works fine. i cant figure out if any updates for unit software or database are available. anyone have recent experience with this unit? as it is vfr backup not much of a deal if no updates are available. bob noffs 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:47:46 AM PST US
    From: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
    Subject: Re: garmin 195
    Bob, google is your best friend (update garmin 195) http://www8.garmin.com/products/gpsmap195/download.html On 13.05.2011 13:02, bob noffs wrote: > a little off topics but.........i just acquired a garmin 195 to use for > a backup . works fine. i cant figure out if any updates for unit > software or database are available. anyone have recent experience with > this unit? as it is vfr backup not much of a deal if no updates are > available. > bob noffs > > * > > > *


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:51:14 AM PST US
    Subject: Extending capacitive fuel sensor lead?
    From: James Kilford <james@etravel.org>
    Gents, I've bought three Kingston capacitive fuel sensors for my Jodel project. They each provide a 0-5V calibrated output, which I'll be using to display the three fuel levels on a home-made graphical 2-1/4" instrument (another side project...) The rear tank sensor has a combined probe and electronics, but the two wing tank senders have a separate probe, linked to a little box of electronics via a foot-or-so-long lead. The lead has a small connector, a "FAKRA" SMB coax connector, Digikey part number ARF1250-ND. The lead is made of this very thin wire, that looks as though it's spiral wrapped in paper. Sorry, that's a bit of a sketchy description. The wing tanks have recesses for the senders and a tube, from the recess, for the lead to go along. The trouble is, the SMB connector is too big to fit along this tube. So, I'm wondering if I can cut the wire and, for example, put a couple of DB pins in the conductors. Then I could feed them in, join the pins, and cover with heatshrink. Or, perhaps I could just subtly extend the cables with solder and heatshrink. Any experiences on this sort of problem would be appreciated very much. Many thanks in anticipation, James -- Jodel D150 in progress (90% done...)


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:00:47 AM PST US
    From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
    Subject: Lithium batteries redux
    Capacity to weight is fine but I think there are other considerations... charging being one and cost the other. My understanding is the lithium polymer batteries require special chargers to prevent overheating the polymer core of the battery. (remember when laptop computers and cell phones were reported to catch fire) I think but an not entirely sure this has been overcome. The cost is another factor. Planes work best when the weight is held at a minimum. Each owner has to justify the cost of a high tech lithium battery for himself. Noel From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: May 11, 2011 4:02 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries redux At 08:27 PM 5/10/2011, you wrote: At 01:13 PM 5/10/2011, you wrote: I would like to hear your Bob's or other folks comments about aviation use of the lithium batteries supplied here: http://www.lithiumaviationbattery.com/index.html they seem to offer signficant weight reduction I took the time to clean up my posting from earlier this morning on the topic of lithium batteries for OBAM aircraft. I've converted it to an article which can be accessed at: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Batteries/To_lithium_or_not_to_lithium.pdf As usual, constructive critical review is welcome. Bob . . .


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:41:18 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: transponder connections, grounding and RF interference
    From: "messydeer" <messydeer@yahoo.com>
    Below are some suggestions from other sources: Pin #2 for 'ext suppr' is to be left open, since I'll have no DME. Pin #3 for D4 could be connected to D4 or left open, since it would only be required over 30,000 ft. Pin #14 for 14V dimmer: the 'dim' with curved arrow next to the 'reply ident' knob may be for the knob only, so an external dimmer might be needed. I hadn't planned on installing one and don't plan on night flying, so I may just wire a pigtail and leave it open. Pin #15 for 'remote I/D' should be left open and not used as a ground connection. The grounding schematic I posted earlier is correct, except that now that I will not be using pin #15 as a ground, I'll jumper the grounds from the ground bus and encoder to the single ground pin of the transponder, pin #1. The 950 says it puts out 250W. I don't have the manual, but a current Becker model that puts out this power uses a 3A slow blow fuse. I've seen other transponders suggesting between 3 and 5A fuses. AC43 says a 5A fuse would protect a 20 or 22 awg wire, so unless someone has a better suggestion, I'll use these sizes. MGL says they don't use any ferrite beads and have no RF interference problems. Have I answered all my questions correctly? -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339761#339761


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:43:06 AM PST US
    From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
    Subject: garmin 195
    I would be careful about this garmin 195 update link on Google (http://www8.garmin.com/products/gpsmap195/download.html). The text indicates the last Garmin 195 SW update is listed as 2002, but more importantly if you go to the download charts from that link, you will find they have Updates but they are apparently not for the Garmin 195 as implied. They appear to be for the marine GSPMAP 400 series if you check the compatible units they list. Ed -------------------------------------------------- From: "Werner Schneider" <glastar@gmx.net> Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 10:44 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: garmin 195 > <glastar@gmx.net> > > Bob, > > google is your best friend (update garmin 195) > > http://www8.garmin.com/products/gpsmap195/download.html > > On 13.05.2011 13:02, bob noffs wrote: >> a little off topics but.........i just acquired a garmin 195 to use for >> a backup . works fine. i cant figure out if any updates for unit >> software or database are available. anyone have recent experience with >> this unit? as it is vfr backup not much of a deal if no updates are >> available. >> bob noffs >> >> * >> >> >> * > > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 08:45:16 AM PST US
    From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: garmin 195
    Bob, The 195 was my first GPS to get me where I wanted to go. In fact, I believe that it is still in my Garmin drawer.. I think the last 195 'system' OS update is still available from a Garmin website. However, I don't think that Garmin has any Database updates (not 100% sure of that...). Years ago, there was an Air Force guy that was selling 195 database updates on eBay. You might see if he still does that. This guy figured out how Garmin 'pass worded the database. Turned out it was a very simple key. Now, as we all know, of late Garmin has a very elaborate method of protecting database updates from being cloned. Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ----- Original Message ----- From: bob noffs To: aeroelectric list Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 4:02 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: garmin 195 a little off topics but.........i just acquired a garmin 195 to use for a backup . works fine. i cant figure out if any updates for unit software or database are available. anyone have recent experience with this unit? as it is vfr backup not much of a deal if no updates are available. bob noffs


    Message 10


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    Time: 09:04:54 AM PST US
    From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
    Subject: garmin 195
    On this Garmin link they show the 195 as discountinued https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=169&pID=6412 GPSMAP 195 Part Number: 010-00083-00 Support No software is currently available for this product. Please check back for updates. Ed -------------------------------------------------- From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 11:40 AM Subject: Careful on the Google link AeroElectric-List: garmin 195 > I would be careful about this garmin 195 update link on Google > > (http://www8.garmin.com/products/gpsmap195/download.html). > > The text indicates the last Garmin 195 SW update is listed as 2002, but > more importantly if you go to the download charts from that link, you will > find they have Updates but they are apparently not for the Garmin 195 as > implied. They appear to be for the marine GSPMAP 400 series if you check > the compatible units they list. > > Ed > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Werner Schneider" <glastar@gmx.net> > Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 10:44 AM > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: garmin 195 > >> <glastar@gmx.net> >> >> Bob, >> >> google is your best friend (update garmin 195) >> >> http://www8.garmin.com/products/gpsmap195/download.html >> >> On 13.05.2011 13:02, bob noffs wrote: >>> a little off topics but.........i just acquired a garmin 195 to use for >>> a backup . works fine. i cant figure out if any updates for unit >>> software or database are available. anyone have recent experience with >>> this unit? as it is vfr backup not much of a deal if no updates are >>> available. >>> bob noffs >>> >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >> >> >> >> >>


    Message 11


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    Time: 09:47:15 AM PST US
    From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: garmin 195
    Ed, The first of the Garmin X96 series, 196, is still a great GPS. It is not color, but, great levels of grey scale. Because of it's newer color cousins, the 196 is extremely cheap on the used market. For those that can't pay much for a GPS, that unit gets my vote. Even though I use the later models, when I travel with friends, I take my trusty 196 for the ride..... David ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Anderson To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 6:57 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: garmin 195 Steve, I have had a Garmin 195 for over a decade. I got mine updated to around 2008 date/time when I went to 2010 Sun & Fun by a Garmin Vendor offer the update there at Sun & Fun for $60. They told me then that Garmin had decided to stop supporting the 195 and that 2008 was the last update there would be. I have not attempted to verify the accuracy of this statement. But, the last update did include the changes the FAA make to a lot of airport designators - since I had purchased my 195. So I felt it was a worthwhile update. I had purchased a more modern (non-Garmin) GPS which was more reasonably priced and was almost as feature rich (Had everything I needed), it used a Tablet Computer (a bit heavy) which eventually fell off my windshield suction cup mount, hit its face on the co-pilot stick and damaged the unit. When I reached over to pick it up the bottom was already almost too hot to hold. Fearing a runway battery short, I was about to slow down, open the canopy and jettison it over the side. But after whacking the case a couple of times, I apparently removed the shorting condition. Unfortunately, even though the tablet computer was the only part damaged ( I mean the code was software not firmware) , I could not get any sort of "deal" on replacing the HW and getting the code reloaded. So I have since removed that vendor from my GPS list. So now looking for an Garmin that I can afford as well as see {:>) I still fly with my 195 and will continue to keep it as back up. Even if not updated, its still a useful instrument, just naturally not to be relied for accuracy of Nav, airport or obstruction data. FWIW Ed From: Steve Thomas Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 8:30 AM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: garmin 195 I updated my Garmin 195 about 6 months ago, but haven't looked since. Contact Garmin. I think all you need to do is register the unit with them and then you can update it. Steve Thomas ________________________________________________________________________ On May 13, 2011, at 4:02 AM, bob noffs wrote: a little off topics but.........i just acquired a garmin 195 to use for a backup . works fine. i cant figure out if any updates for unit software or database are available. anyone have recent experience with this unit? as it is vfr backup not much of a deal if no updates are available. bob noffs 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"'>http:// www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c om/contribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D


    Message 12


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    Time: 10:03:37 AM PST US
    From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: garmin 195
    Good suggestion, David However, due to the fact I only have one working eyeball and it's around 71 years of age, I am really looking for one (GPS) with a somewhat larger screen and color would be nice as well. I sort of got hooked on color with the one that fell off my windscreen and committed suicide. But, the main reason is just to have one the can be updated - although I think I'll look for one that uses the Government provided digital maps just to keep my annual cost down at bit. Thanks again for the suggestion Ed From: David Lloyd Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 12:44 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: garmin 195 Ed, The first of the Garmin X96 series, 196, is still a great GPS. It is not color, but, great levels of grey scale. Because of it's newer color cousins, the 196 is extremely cheap on the used market. For those that can't pay much for a GPS, that unit gets my vote. Even though I use the later models, when I travel with friends, I take my trusty 196 for the ride..... David ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Anderson To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 6:57 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: garmin 195 Steve, I have had a Garmin 195 for over a decade. I got mine updated to around 2008 date/time when I went to 2010 Sun & Fun by a Garmin Vendor offer the update there at Sun & Fun for $60. They told me then that Garmin had decided to stop supporting the 195 and that 2008 was the last update there would be. I have not attempted to verify the accuracy of this statement. But, the last update did include the changes the FAA make to a lot of airport designators - since I had purchased my 195. So I felt it was a worthwhile update. I had purchased a more modern (non-Garmin) GPS which was more reasonably priced and was almost as feature rich (Had everything I needed), it used a Tablet Computer (a bit heavy) which eventually fell off my windshield suction cup mount, hit its face on the co-pilot stick and damaged the unit. When I reached over to pick it up the bottom was already almost too hot to hold. Fearing a runway battery short, I was about to slow down, open the canopy and jettison it over the side. But after whacking the case a couple of times, I apparently removed the shorting condition. Unfortunately, even though the tablet computer was the only part damaged ( I mean the code was software not firmware) , I could not get any sort of "deal" on replacing the HW and getting the code reloaded. So I have since removed that vendor from my GPS list. So now looking for an Garmin that I can afford as well as see {:>) I still fly with my 195 and will continue to keep it as back up. Even if not updated, its still a useful instrument, just naturally not to be relied for accuracy of Nav, airport or obstruction data. FWIW Ed From: Steve Thomas Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 8:30 AM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: garmin 195 I updated my Garmin 195 about 6 months ago, but haven't looked since. Contact Garmin. I think all you need to do is register the unit with them and then you can update it. Steve Thomas ________________________________________________________________________ On May 13, 2011, at 4:02 AM, bob noffs wrote: a little off topics but.........i just acquired a garmin 195 to use for a backup . works fine. i cant figure out if any updates for unit software or database are available. anyone have recent experience with this unit? as it is vfr backup not much of a deal if no updates are available. bob noffs 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"'>http:// www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c om/contribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c


    Message 13


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    Time: 10:43:01 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Lithium batteries redux
    At 09:56 AM 5/13/2011, you wrote: Capacity to weight is fine but I think there are other considerations... charging being one and cost the other. My understanding is the lithium polymer batteries require special chargers to prevent overheating the polymer core of the battery. (remember when laptop computers and cell phones were reported to catch fire) I think but an not entirely sure this has been overcome. There are several Li-ion technologies . . . each with its own attendant weaknesses and strengths. And yes, keeping an array of series-parallel cells equally serviced in large capacity batteries is a technology challenge. The cells are very energetic and the demands for integrating them into long lived, low maintenance, low risk arrays are challenges to be met. There ARE several lithium technologies flying in air transport category aircraft and military aircraft. ALL of these aircraft enjoy a great deal more attention from trained, professional ground crews on budgets that would discourage the OBAM aircraft owner/pilot. The cost is another factor. Planes work best when the weight is held at a minimum. But "best" is non quantified. And weight is a moving target. One might suggest that the airplane will perform "better" if you never fly with more than 1/4 tanks. Obviously, this cripples the overall mission performance in trade for "better" performance en route. Each owner has to justify the cost of a high tech lithium battery for himself. Absolutely. Further, it goes beyond acquisition costs to include cost of ownership over an extended period of time equal to the battery's expected service life. This was emphasized in the short essay I published. These are an emerging technology . . . with the historically predictable acquisition costs. My first 4-function calculator cost me $75 used in 1980, Needed 9v batteries it ate like popcorn. The same functionality today costs $1 at big lots and runs for years on a button cell. We're in the "1980's emerging technology" mode with lithium ion batteries as main batteries for aircraft. The high volume usage by automotive markets will have the same effect on aircraft lithium cranking batteries as consumer grade GPS products had on aviation specific GPS navigation. If our fellow citizens have it bolted to THEIR cars and RV's, then it's going to get better for OUR airplanes in the future. But you're right. There are dragons to slay, new dogs to train, old dogs to retire, and market confidences to be gained. We are presently witnessing the opening minutes of the first quarter. Putting the numbers to a complete set of design goals is what the guys in the heavy-iron bird business do to justify their salaries and test budgets. That's why it cost $30 million to bring the Star Ship to market . . . If we'd spent another $10 million in doing the numbers and testing, we might have saved a boatload of money by discovering that the product was doomed before we put it into production. Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------


    Message 14


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    Time: 10:45:48 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Extending capacitive fuel sensor lead?
    At 09:48 AM 5/13/2011, you wrote: >Gents, > >I've bought three Kingston capacitive fuel >sensors for my Jodel project. They each >provide a 0-5V calibrated output, which I'll be >using to display the three fuel levels on a >home-made graphical 2-1/4" instrument (another side project...) > >The rear tank sensor has a combined probe and >electronics, but the two wing tank senders have >a separate probe, linked to a little box of >electronics via a foot-or-so-long lead. The >lead has a small connector, a "FAKRA" SMB coax >connector, Digikey part number ARF1250-ND. The >lead is made of this very thin wire, that looks >as though it's spiral wrapped in paper. Sorry, >that's a bit of a sketchy description. > >The wing tanks have recesses for the senders and >a tube, from the recess, for the lead to go >along. The trouble is, the SMB connector is >too big to fit along this tube. > >So, I'm wondering if I can cut the wire and, for >example, put a couple of DB pins in the >conductors. Then I could feed them in, join >the pins, and cover with heatshrink. Or, perhaps >I could just subtly extend the cables with solder and heatshrink. > >Any experiences on this sort of problem would be appreciated very much. > >Many thanks in anticipation, Talk to the folks who made the product. There's a dozen ways to configure capacitive fuel sensor/gage systems each with it's own system integration limits. As a GENERAL rule, don't mess with coax lengths unless the installation instructions specifically offer techniques for doing it. Ordinary wire, including shielded wires, can generally be extended to any necessary length. But call the folks that built the thing. They know more about it than anybody else. Bob . . .


    Message 15


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    Time: 11:00:34 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Glasair contactors
    >Bob, > >The contactors that Glasair sent in my 24V option package are >Cole-Hersee 24063 85A continuous 24V units. The 12V guys received >similar 85A units. Okay. C-H builds some robust stuff. Let's keep in mind that relays and contactors are rated in the tens of thousands of operations. Using a C-duty contactor as a starter control may set up a situation where design goals are not going to be realized in the field . . . but a contactor failing after 5 years of service is no big deal to the owner. I would judge that the vast majority of OBAM aircraft flying have never had to replace a starter contactor . . . whether "rated" for that service . . . or not. We recommend the intermittent-duty, starter-rated devices because they're no more expensive than their C-duty cousins and are DESIGNED for that task. In no way does that suggest that using a C-duty contactor will produce unsatisfactory service life as perceived by the owner/operator. However if that same owner/operator were using the contactor in a crop duster than was expected to produce a dozen starts every working day . . . Bob . . .


    Message 16


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    Time: 11:05:55 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Extending capacitive fuel sensor lead?
    From: James Kilford <james@etravel.org>
    Yes, I guess so... By the way, I've just realised that I wrote Kingston... but meant Princeton ! James On 13 May 2011 18:43, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.co m > wrote: > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 09:48 AM 5/13/2011, you wrote: > >> Gents,=C3=82 >> >> I've bought three Kingston capacitive fuel sensors for my Jodel project. =C3=82 >> They each provide a 0-5V calibrated output, which I'll be using to displ ay >> the three fuel levels on a home-made graphical 2-1/4" instrument (anothe r >> side project...) >> >> The rear tank sensor has a combined probe and electronics, but the two >> wing tank senders have a separate probe, linked to a little box of >> electronics via a foot-or-so-long=C3=82 lead. =C3=82 The lead has a smal l connector, a >> "FAKRA" SMB coax connector, Digikey part number ARF1250-ND. =C3=82 The l ead is >> made of this very thin wire, that looks as though it's spiral wrapped in >> paper. =C3=82 Sorry, that's a bit of a sketchy description. >> >> The wing tanks have recesses for the senders and a tube, from the recess , >> for the lead to go along. =C3=82 The trouble is, the SMB connector is to o big to >> fit along this tube. =C3=82 >> >> So, I'm wondering if I can cut the wire and, for example, put a couple o f >> DB pins in the conductors. =C3=82 Then I could feed them in, join the pi ns, and >> cover with heatshrink. Or, perhaps I could just subtly extend the cables >> with solder and heatshrink. >> >> Any experiences on this sort of problem would be appreciated very much. =C3=82 >> >> Many thanks in anticipation, >> > > Talk to the folks who made the product. There's a dozen > ways to configure capacitive fuel sensor/gage systems > each with it's own system integration limits. > > As a GENERAL rule, don't mess with coax lengths unless > the installation instructions specifically offer techniques > for doing it. Ordinary wire, including shielded wires, can > generally be extended to any necessary length. But call the > folks that built the thing. They know more about it than > anybody else. > > Bob . . . > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > >


    Message 17


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    Time: 11:14:12 AM PST US
    From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: garmin 195
    Ed, ...Ahhh, you do have some unique viewing differences. About suction cup mounts. I use one on my left window corner for my backup Garmin. What I do is have a "lanyard" affixed to the mount and to my upper air vent. When the mount suction fails it only falls an inch or so when the lanyard catches it. I have learned the hard way too. dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Anderson To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 9:59 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: garmin 195 Good suggestion, David However, due to the fact I only have one working eyeball and it's around 71 years of age, I am really looking for one (GPS) with a somewhat larger screen and color would be nice as well. I sort of got hooked on color with the one that fell off my windscreen and committed suicide. But, the main reason is just to have one the can be updated - although I think I'll look for one that uses the Government provided digital maps just to keep my annual cost down at bit. Thanks again for the suggestion Ed From: David Lloyd Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 12:44 PM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: garmin 195 Ed, The first of the Garmin X96 series, 196, is still a great GPS. It is not color, but, great levels of grey scale. Because of it's newer color cousins, the 196 is extremely cheap on the used market. For those that can't pay much for a GPS, that unit gets my vote. Even though I use the later models, when I travel with friends, I take my trusty 196 for the ride..... David ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Anderson To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 6:57 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: garmin 195 Steve, I have had a Garmin 195 for over a decade. I got mine updated to around 2008 date/time when I went to 2010 Sun & Fun by a Garmin Vendor offer the update there at Sun & Fun for $60. They told me then that Garmin had decided to stop supporting the 195 and that 2008 was the last update there would be. I have not attempted to verify the accuracy of this statement. But, the last update did include the changes the FAA make to a lot of airport designators - since I had purchased my 195. So I felt it was a worthwhile update. I had purchased a more modern (non-Garmin) GPS which was more reasonably priced and was almost as feature rich (Had everything I needed), it used a Tablet Computer (a bit heavy) which eventually fell off my windshield suction cup mount, hit its face on the co-pilot stick and damaged the unit. When I reached over to pick it up the bottom was already almost too hot to hold. Fearing a runway battery short, I was about to slow down, open the canopy and jettison it over the side. But after whacking the case a couple of times, I apparently removed the shorting condition. Unfortunately, even though the tablet computer was the only part damaged ( I mean the code was software not firmware) , I could not get any sort of "deal" on replacing the HW and getting the code reloaded. So I have since removed that vendor from my GPS list. So now looking for an Garmin that I can afford as well as see {:>) I still fly with my 195 and will continue to keep it as back up. Even if not updated, its still a useful instrument, just naturally not to be relied for accuracy of Nav, airport or obstruction data. FWIW Ed From: Steve Thomas Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 8:30 AM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: garmin 195 I updated my Garmin 195 about 6 months ago, but haven't looked since. Contact Garmin. I think all you need to do is register the unit with them and then you can update it. Steve Thomas ________________________________________________________________________ On May 13, 2011, at 4:02 AM, bob noffs wrote: a little off topics but.........i just acquired a garmin 195 to use for a backup . works fine. i cant figure out if any updates for unit software or database are available. anyone have recent experience with this unit? as it is vfr backup not much of a deal if no updates are available. bob noffs 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"'>http:// www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c om/contribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c


    Message 18


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    Time: 09:26:30 PM PST US
    From: "Stuart Hutchison" <stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au>
    Subject: Lithium batteries redux
    G'day, www.batteryuniversity.com is a useful resource. Isidor Buchmann is very well regarded as an expert in these technologies. Li-ion or Li-Po secondary cells (rechargeables) do not behave the same way as older technologies like NiCd or NiMH or Lead Acid. Lithium technologies have upper and lower voltage limits, otherwise the battery is ruined. In other words, if you load a Lithium battery and let it run down below the minimum voltage limit (about 3V per cell), the battery will be ruined the first time you use it. Therefore, these batteries must be connected to electronic devices to control voltage. The correct chargers must also be used. When used correctly, this also means that there is a LOT of energy left in the battery even after the 'power meter' says the battery is flat (such as on your computer) - enough to start a fire if short circuited. Stu _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 12:57 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries redux Capacity to weight is fine but I think there are other considerations... charging being one and cost the other. My understanding is the lithium polymer batteries require special chargers to prevent overheating the polymer core of the battery. (remember when laptop computers and cell phones were reported to catch fire) I think but an not entirely sure this has been overcome. The cost is another factor. Planes work best when the weight is held at a minimum. Each owner has to justify the cost of a high tech lithium battery for himself. Noel From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: May 11, 2011 4:02 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries redux At 08:27 PM 5/10/2011, you wrote: At 01:13 PM 5/10/2011, you wrote: I would like to hear your Bob's or other folks comments about aviation use of the lithium batteries supplied here: http://www.lithiumaviationbattery.com/index.html they seem to offer signficant weight reduction I took the time to clean up my posting from earlier this morning on the topic of lithium batteries for OBAM aircraft. I've converted it to an article which can be accessed at: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Batteries/To_lithium_or_not_to_lithium.pdf As usual, constructive critical review is welcome. Bob . . . http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution




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