---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/15/11: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:04 AM - Re: Lithium batteries redux (Noel Loveys) 2. 09:12 AM - Re: Key Ignition Switch (plevyakh) 3. 09:45 AM - Re: Lithium batteries redux (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 10:13 AM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (James Kilford) 5. 10:57 AM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (David Lloyd) 6. 11:04 AM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (Mike Welch) 7. 11:10 AM - Re: Lithium batteries redux (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 11:17 AM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (B Tomm) 9. 11:30 AM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (John Morgensen) 10. 12:22 PM - Re: Key Ignition Switch (plevyakh) 11. 01:37 PM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (rayj) 12. 01:43 PM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (Noel Loveys) 13. 01:55 PM - Re: Lithium batteries redux (Noel Loveys) 14. 02:09 PM - Re: Lithium batteries redux (rayj) 15. 02:32 PM - Re: Lithium batteries redux (Harley) 16. 02:55 PM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (Bill Bradburry) 17. 03:11 PM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (Bill Bradburry) 18. 03:12 PM - Beauty on 4-wheels (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 19. 03:18 PM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 20. 03:45 PM - Re: Unsteelable Airplane (was Key Ignition Switch) (Carlos Trigo) 21. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (RGent1224@aol.com) 22. 08:23 PM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (Noel Loveys) 23. 08:38 PM - Re: Lithium batteries redux (Noel Loveys) 24. 08:46 PM - Re: Beauty on 4-wheels (Noel Loveys) 25. 08:46 PM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (Noel Loveys) 26. 08:46 PM - Re: Lithium batteries redux (Noel Loveys) 27. 09:25 PM - Re: Unsteelable Airplane (was Key Ignition Switch) (Bill Bradburry) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:41 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries redux The cost is another factor. Planes work best when the weight is held at a minimum. But "best" is non quantified. And weight is a moving target. One might suggest that the airplane will perform "better" if you never fly with more than 1/4 tanks. Obviously, this cripples the overall mission performance in trade for "better" performance en route. * Noel: Being that I am the guy who normally flies at MTOW the lighter the parts I carry aloft allow me to carry more fuel or cargo (read fishing gear) Each owner has to justify the cost of a high tech lithium battery for himself. Absolutely. Further, it goes beyond acquisition costs to include cost of ownership over an extended period of time equal to the battery's expected service life. This was emphasized in the short essay I published. These are an emerging technology . . . with the historically predictable acquisition costs. My first 4-function calculator cost me $75 used in 1980, Needed 9v batteries it ate like popcorn. The same functionality today costs $1 at big lots and runs for years on a button cell. * Noel: Only the future will tell about the cost of lithium polymer cells. If they become common enough the price will drop the question is of course how much. The whole question of cost has to be compared to the value of a dollar on any particular day. For instance the calculator you bought in 1980 and cost $75 would only be around $15.00 at today's value of the dollar. BTW in 1980 I found a graphing calculator program for my little RS computer... Worked great but occasionally it would give results to 16 decimal points even when set to only give two decimal point results. We're in the "1980's emerging technology" mode with lithium ion batteries as main batteries for aircraft. The high volume usage by automotive markets will have the same effect on aircraft lithium cranking batteries as consumer grade GPS products had on aviation specific GPS navigation. If our fellow citizens have it bolted to THEIR cars and RV's, then it's going to get better for OUR airplanes in the future. But you're right. There are dragons to slay, new dogs to train, old dogs to retire, and market confidences to be gained. We are presently witnessing the opening minutes of the first quarter. Putting the numbers to a complete set of design goals is what the guys in the heavy-iron bird business do to justify their salaries and test budgets. That's why it cost $30 million to bring the Star Ship to market . . . If we'd spent another $10 million in doing the numbers and testing, we might have saved a boatload of money by discovering that the product was doomed before we put it into production. Bob I'm interested on the reason the Star Ship disappeared. I felt it had great potential for markets where there were short paved runways. In fact I was a little surprised when it wasn't taken up globally. Noel Bob . . . --------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) --------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:47 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch From: "plevyakh" Folks, I'd like to get some ideas from the forum on how best to secure my airplane. My concern is both with stealing of the entire plane....to breaking in and stealing the avionics. What systems are folks using to secure the plane and it's innards? What do you think would be the cheapest YET most effective? Some ideas: 1) Propeller Lock / Chain: - http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/product/12054 - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/propLockChain.php 2) Door Lock - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aerolocksets.php 3) Throttle Lock - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/throttlelock.php or - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/skylock.php 4) Battery Lock or Kill Switch - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/batterylock.php - http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1010/10002/-1 5) Stick Lock - similar to throttle lock idea.but locks out the controls instead with a padlock and steel bar. 6) Aircraft Alarm System - http://car-alarm-review.toptenreviews.com/viper-car-alarm-review.html TIA for your thoughts. Howard -------- Howard Plevyak GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio hplevyak@mac.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339905#339905 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:27 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries redux At 11:31 PM 5/14/2011, you wrote: > > >G'day Bob, > >Yes. I was aslo thinking of those with utility lights or other loads coming >directly off the battery bus. If a load is left on for any reason, even a >new lithium battery could be rendered useless overnight (as it won't safely >accept a charge below the minimum operating voltage). Those are the kinds of questions to be asked and answered. If it is a no-no to deeply discharge the lithium battery, one might offset the characteristic by providing automatic disconnect when the battery voltage (or watt-seconds of drain) past certain limits. Of course, this adds to system complexity with electro-whizzies to manage battery idiosyncrasies. This means another produce to design, develop, test, produce, install, maintain, and finance the fuel to carry it around. This is why it is so important to know ALL there is to know about a new product and to gage new facts with legacy design goals to deduce a potential for unhappy surprises. At Beech in the 1970-1980 time frame, we had a gentleman who ran "Jack Thurman's House of Horrors". The general consensus was that if Jack couldn't tear it up, it was okay to bolt to an airplane. Jack had all manner of vibration, bake, freeze, wet, oil, and electrical system mock-ups with which to torment the offerings of the hopeful new supplier. I knew Jack pretty well as one of those "hopefuls" and learned to do my homework before I let him get his hands on it. He contributed greatly to my education as a thoughtful designer. Bottom line is that the four-color brochures and 30-second promotional videos offer only the surface of what's needed for making the confident decision. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:13:56 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch From: James Kilford Howard, As well as trying to stop people from taking the plane, how about a system that will track it and tell you where it is. I've read about low-cost systems to do that -- a little GPS and GSM device that will text you with co-ordinates once a car alarm has been triggered. My concern with fitting any sort of immobiliser is that it's another system that is designed to stop the aeroplane from flying, and there might be a failure mode that would cause you to have a bad day! There are loads of good mechanical systems though -- the prop locks and whatnot -- and you could doubtless gain something from looking at the motorcycle security products. There are all sorts of very solid bike chain s and locks that might help you secure an entire airframe. Protecting the avionics individually might be more of a problem, but still, there are many types of security screws that will make life difficult for a n equipment thief. Or perhaps a Kensington lock, used on many a laptop. Coupled with a GSM-notifying alarm system, these might create enough of a delay for you to get down to the hangar before the miscreants depart with your chattels. James On 15 May 2011 17:08, plevyakh wrote: > > Folks, > I'd like to get some ideas from the forum on how best to secure my > airplane. > > My concern is both with stealing of the entire plane....to breaking in an d > stealing the avionics. > > What systems are folks using to secure the plane and it's innards? > > What do you think would be the cheapest YET most effective? > > Some ideas: > 1) Propeller Lock / Chain: > - http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/product/12054 > - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/propLockChain.php > > 2) Door Lock > - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aerolocksets.php > > 3) Throttle Lock > - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/throttlelock.php > or > - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/skylock.php > > 4) Battery Lock or Kill Switch > - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/batterylock.php > - http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1010/10002/-1 > > 5) Stick Lock - similar to throttle lock idea=C3=A2=82=AC=C2.but l ocks out the > controls instead with a padlock and steel bar. > > 6) Aircraft Alarm System > - http://car-alarm-review.toptenreviews.com/viper-car-alarm-review.html > > TIA for your thoughts. > Howard > > -------- > Howard Plevyak > GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio > hplevyak@mac.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339905#339905 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:57:16 AM PST US From: "David Lloyd" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch I have always thought the "Throttle" lock was robust and not easily defeated. I have seen versions to where you could not get bolt cutters around the lock hasp. Trying to get it off would break the throttle control and then where is the thief.? Also, the large manual marine battery cutoff switches are reliable, and if you have a secret location to install it and manually switch if OFF every flight. That would take a thief too long to figure out why no power to start the engine. However, if he is a real jerk he might decide to try to hand prop it and fly with no panel..... D ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ----- Original Message ----- From: James Kilford To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 10:10 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch Howard, As well as trying to stop people from taking the plane, how about a system that will track it and tell you where it is. I've read about low-cost systems to do that -- a little GPS and GSM device that will text you with co-ordinates once a car alarm has been triggered. My concern with fitting any sort of immobiliser is that it's another system that is designed to stop the aeroplane from flying, and there might be a failure mode that would cause you to have a bad day! There are loads of good mechanical systems though -- the prop locks and whatnot -- and you could doubtless gain something from looking at the motorcycle security products. There are all sorts of very solid bike chains and locks that might help you secure an entire airframe. Protecting the avionics individually might be more of a problem, but still, there are many types of security screws that will make life difficult for an equipment thief. Or perhaps a Kensington lock, used on many a laptop. Coupled with a GSM-notifying alarm system, these might create enough of a delay for you to get down to the hangar before the miscreants depart with your chattels. James On 15 May 2011 17:08, plevyakh wrote: Folks, I'd like to get some ideas from the forum on how best to secure my airplane. My concern is both with stealing of the entire plane....to breaking in and stealing the avionics. What systems are folks using to secure the plane and it's innards? What do you think would be the cheapest YET most effective? Some ideas: 1) Propeller Lock / Chain: - http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/product/12054 - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/propLockChain.php 2) Door Lock - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aerolocksets.php 3) Throttle Lock - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/throttlelock.php or - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/skylock.php 4) Battery Lock or Kill Switch - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/batterylock.php - http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1010/10002/-1 5) Stick Lock - similar to throttle lock idea=C3=A2=82=AC=C2.but locks out the controls instead with a padlock and steel bar. 6) Aircraft Alarm System - http://car-alarm-review.toptenreviews.com/viper-car-alarm-review.html TIA for your thoughts. Howard -------- Howard Plevyak GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio hplevyak@mac.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339905#339905 ========== - ric-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ========== MS - k">http://forums.matronics.com ========== e - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:19 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch > What do you think would be the cheapest YET most effective? > TIA for your thoughts. > Howard Howard=2C Here is what I would do=2C if I was worried about losing an airplane or airplane parts=3B (cost...about $.50=2C if that!) ATTENTION!!! If you can read this message=2C you have already activated a motion detector & video recorder=2C and YOU ARE BEING TAPED!! IF YOU ARE STILL IN THIS VICINITY WITHIN 3 MINUTES=2C THE POLICE WILL BE NOTIFIED VIA A MODEM. YOU HAVE 2 1/2 MINUTES LEFT BEFORE THE POLICE ARE CALLED. GOOD BYE!! You also have a small electronic box sitting inside the plane=2C with a flashing RED LED. The box is only visible if you are standing near the plane=2C even though it blinks 24/7....they think they just set it off and are being recorded!! Nobody=2C and I mean NOBODY is going to do a thing wrong when they think they are on camera!! Mike Welch ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:10:13 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries redux At 10:00 AM 5/15/2011, you wrote: > > >* Noel: Being that I am the guy who normally flies at MTOW the lighter the >parts I carry aloft allow me to carry more fuel or cargo (read fishing gear). How often do you find yourself trading off between fuel and cargo for the purpose of making a 15 pound adjustment? I ask this in the context of using weight savings to drive a decision to go lithium. Suppose your airplane was specifically crafted for light weight in every detail. Dick Rutan had bad dreams about bending the very-light rudder peddles in Voyager . . . an airplane that had no paint on the bottoms surface of the wings. Going lithium as one component of many in the weight savings equation might make a whole lot of sense. But I presume your airplane is pretty much the same as every other example . . . so if you DO shave 15 pounds out of a battery . . . how likely is it that you get an attractive return on investment for that single savings? >Bob I'm interested on the reason the Star Ship disappeared. I felt it had >great potential for markets where there were short paved runways. In fact I >was a little surprised when it wasn't taken up globally. A whole host of reasons. It was rushed into production without fully exploring all the ramifications of getting the thing certified. We didn't know much about building a composite airplane. The FAA knew less about certifying one. We use a lot of "aluminum" techniques to build a composite airplane. By the time certain certification deficiencies were identified and 'beefed up', the airplane came out 2000 pounds heavier than wished/planned for. The thing was noisy inside. Some of our guys in the Targets Division received a charter to play with some active noise reduction techniques in the Starship cabin . . . no joy. Things that got us all excited about uncle Burt's POC aircraft did not come to pass in the production model. Here's a pretty good short story on the rise and fall of the Starship: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_Starship One of the best narratives on the Starship was written by Peter Garrison which you can find here: http://www.starshipdiaries.com/files/Flying%20Review.pdf The airplane DID pioneer some firsts. Collins did the first all glass cockpit tailored to a GA aircraft. Over 150 distributed microprocessors. MUCH easier to manage software to specific tasks. Then the FAA came along and levied DO178 on software and the bureaucracies of distributed processing became overwhelming. So now we certify ONE chunk of do-everything software in super-processors . . . UGH! I got a call one day to see if I could assist a tech in deducing a problem with a Starship de-ice controller. Upon first sight of the thing spread out on the workbench my first impulse was to turn around and walk back out. The logic boards alone were on two nearly foot-square, multi-layer ECB's with over 100 discrete logic chips on each board. The drawing for the schematic was a roll size thing about 8' long. I was told that the designer received some kind of award for his efforts . . . and left the company a short time later. Clearly not a student of the elegant solution. It's been an interesting line of speculative conversation amongst my peers at Beech as to how things might have been done differently under the design and marketing philosophies of the Beech/Wallace/Lear schools. While Starship was in development, I was working the "Baby Starship" program (GP-180) at Learjet. THAT airplane turned out to be the poor exec's hot rod. Mostly aluminum built on very simple tooling, that airplane was also a large catalog of firsts. Being a mostly aluminum airplane, the performance goals were largely met if not exceeded. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_P.180_Avanti Wichita has been a very interesting place to work and to observe the evolution of general aviation. It's a rich history of successes and failures . . . and a harsh school of hard knocks for evolving marketable recipes for success. I could not have picked a better place to work. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:17:51 AM PST US From: "B Tomm" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch Another reason to use P-mags. No electrical power, no engine start. Bevan _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Lloyd Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 10:53 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch I have always thought the "Throttle" lock was robust and not easily defeated. I have seen versions to where you could not get bolt cutters around the lock hasp. Trying to get it off would break the throttle control and then where is the thief.? Also, the large manual marine battery cutoff switches are reliable, and if you have a secret location to install it and manually switch if OFF every flight. That would take a thief too long to figure out why no power to start the engine. However, if he is a real jerk he might decide to try to hand prop it and fly with no panel..... D _____ ----- Original Message ----- From: James Kilford Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 10:10 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch Howard, As well as trying to stop people from taking the plane, how about a system that will track it and tell you where it is. I've read about low-cost systems to do that -- a little GPS and GSM device that will text you with co-ordinates once a car alarm has been triggered. My concern with fitting any sort of immobiliser is that it's another system that is designed to stop the aeroplane from flying, and there might be a failure mode that would cause you to have a bad day! There are loads of good mechanical systems though -- the prop locks and whatnot -- and you could doubtless gain something from looking at the motorcycle security products. There are all sorts of very solid bike chains and locks that might help you secure an entire airframe. Protecting the avionics individually might be more of a problem, but still, there are many types of security screws that will make life difficult for an equipment thief. Or perhaps a Kensington lock, used on many a laptop. Coupled with a GSM-notifying alarm system, these might create enough of a delay for you to get down to the hangar before the miscreants depart with your chattels. James On 15 May 2011 17:08, plevyakh wrote: Folks, I'd like to get some ideas from the forum on how best to secure my airplane. My concern is both with stealing of the entire plane....to breaking in and stealing the avionics. What systems are folks using to secure the plane and it's innards? What do you think would be the cheapest YET most effective? Some ideas: 1) Propeller Lock / Chain: - http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/product/12054 - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/propLockChain.php 2) Door Lock - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aerolocksets.php 3) Throttle Lock - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/throttlelock.php or - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/skylock.php 4) Battery Lock or Kill Switch - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/batterylock.php - http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1010/10002/-1 5) Stick Lock - similar to throttle lock idea=C3=A2=82=AC=C2.but locks out the controls instead with a padlock and steel bar. 6) Aircraft Alarm System - http://car-alarm-review.toptenreviews.com/viper-car-alarm-review.html TIA for your thoughts. Howard -------- Howard Plevyak GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio hplevyak@mac.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339905#339905 - ric-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List MS - k">http://forums.matronics.com e - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:30:13 AM PST US From: John Morgensen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch VAF has a forum on APRS Tracking: > http://www.vansairforce.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=104 This is a real-time tracking system based on HAM radio facilities. To see it in action: > http://aprs.fi/moving/ Hint: Sort by 'speed' to bring airplanes to the top of the list. john On 5/15/2011 10:10 AM, James Kilford wrote: > Howard, > > As well as trying to stop people from taking the plane, how about a > system that will track it and tell you where it is. I've read about > low-cost systems to do that -- a little GPS and GSM device that will > text you with co-ordinates once a car alarm has been triggered. > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:22:23 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch From: "plevyakh" Some good ideas so far. Mike...I really like the simple one of the note and the LED light! It would be interesting to see if this Gorilla lock could be adapted to lock out the control stick or rudder pedals? http://www.gorilla-auto.com/the.gorilla.grip.3 I came across this site for GPS tracking devices that don't look too expensive. http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/gps-tracking-a.html I will be putting in an APRS tracking device. But it has to be turned on. I'll have to dig into the details on the APRS more and try to see if it could be used as a theft tracking system as well. You raise a great point about if the thief wants to get in....they will. So how to make them THINK....this airplane is too risky to break into? Or scare them off once they've broken in? Here's one idea to use a high DB alarm that's triggered when the door is opened. http://www.defenseproducts101.com/alarms4.html Anyone use a type of high DB alarm triggered by an opened door? I'd like to rig it up with a keyless ON/OFF switch. Howard -------- Howard Plevyak GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio hplevyak@mac.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339923#339923 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:51 PM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch Greetings, I recall seeing home alarm systems that actually sprayed some sort of tear gas automatically. Seems like it would work in a cockpit too. do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 05/15/2011 02:18 PM, plevyakh wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "plevyakh" > > Some good ideas so far. Mike...I really like the simple one of the note and the LED light! > > It would be interesting to see if this Gorilla lock could be adapted to lock out the control stick or rudder pedals? > > http://www.gorilla-auto.com/the.gorilla.grip.3 > > I came across this site for GPS tracking devices that don't look too expensive. > > http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/gps-tracking-a.html > > I will be putting in an APRS tracking device. But it has to be turned on. I'll have to dig into the details on the APRS more and try to see if it could be used as a theft tracking system as well. > > You raise a great point about if the thief wants to get in....they will. So how to make them THINK....this airplane is too risky to break into? Or scare them off once they've broken in? > > Here's one idea to use a high DB alarm that's triggered when the door is opened. > > http://www.defenseproducts101.com/alarms4.html > > Anyone use a type of high DB alarm triggered by an opened door? I'd like to rig it up with a keyless ON/OFF switch. > > Howard > > -------- > Howard Plevyak > GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio > hplevyak@mac.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339923#339923 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:44 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch My grandfather used to say that a lock is only to tell an honest man there's nobody home. Keeping that in mind if possible remove your plugs (install blanks) to immobilize the plane and don't leave any valuables aboard. One of the reasons I wouldn't leave my plane on the local pond is one day while preparing for a flight a good hearted elderly man took out his pocket knife to check if the plane was actually made of cloth. Luckily I stopped him before he cut a piece out to examine it. The best way to secure your plane in my mind is to put it in a hangar and leave the doors open. It's a lot easier to secure a steel building than a cloth plane. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of plevyakh Sent: May 15, 2011 1:39 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch Folks, I'd like to get some ideas from the forum on how best to secure my airplane. My concern is both with stealing of the entire plane....to breaking in and stealing the avionics. What systems are folks using to secure the plane and it's innards? What do you think would be the cheapest YET most effective? Some ideas: 1) Propeller Lock / Chain: - http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/product/12054 - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/propLockChain.php 2) Door Lock - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aerolocksets.php 3) Throttle Lock - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/throttlelock.php or - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/skylock.php 4) Battery Lock or Kill Switch - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/batterylock.php - http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1010/10002/-1 5) Stick Lock - similar to throttle lock idea.but locks out the controls instead with a padlock and steel bar. 6) Aircraft Alarm System - http://car-alarm-review.toptenreviews.com/viper-car-alarm-review.html TIA for your thoughts. Howard -------- Howard Plevyak GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio hplevyak@mac.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339905#339905 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:28 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries redux -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: May 15, 2011 3:37 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries redux At 10:00 AM 5/15/2011, you wrote: > > >* Noel: Being that I am the guy who normally flies at MTOW the lighter the >parts I carry aloft allow me to carry more fuel or cargo (read fishing gear). How often do you find yourself trading off between fuel and cargo for the purpose of making a 15 pound adjustment? I ask this in the context of using weight savings to drive a decision to go lithium. Suppose your airplane was specifically crafted for light weight in every detail. Dick Rutan had bad dreams about bending the very-light rudder peddles in Voyager . . . an airplane that had no paint on the bottoms surface of the wings. Going lithium as one component of many in the weight savings equation might make a whole lot of sense. But I presume your airplane is pretty much the same as every other example . . . so if you DO shave 15 pounds out of a battery . . . how likely is it that you get an attractive return on investment for that single savings? Every flight I make I will trade off some weight for fuel on take off. The ponds I go to are well beyond the range where gas stations can be found ( Rotax 912 = reg MOGAS) so if I want to get home I better have lots of fuel on hand. BTW I have yet to land with less than an hour of gas remaining. As for spending many hundreds of dollars for a high tech battery to save a few pounds, let's just say we are not at that stage yet. >Bob I'm interested on the reason the Star Ship disappeared. I felt it had >great potential for markets where there were short paved runways. In fact I >was a little surprised when it wasn't taken up globally. A whole host of reasons. It was rushed into production without fully exploring all the ramifications of getting the thing certified. We didn't know much about building a composite airplane. The FAA knew less about certifying one. We use a lot of "aluminum" techniques to build a composite airplane. By the time certain certification deficiencies were identified and 'beefed up', the airplane came out 2000 pounds heavier than wished/planned for. The thing was noisy inside. Some of our guys in the Targets Division received a charter to play with some active noise reduction techniques in the Starship cabin . . . no joy. Things that got us all excited about uncle Burt's POC aircraft did not come to pass in the production model. Here's a pretty good short story on the rise and fall of the Starship: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_Starship One of the best narratives on the Starship was written by Peter Garrison which you can find here: http://www.starshipdiaries.com/files/Flying%20Review.pdf The airplane DID pioneer some firsts. Collins did the first all glass cockpit tailored to a GA aircraft. Over 150 distributed microprocessors. MUCH easier to manage software to specific tasks. Then the FAA came along and levied DO178 on software and the bureaucracies of distributed processing became overwhelming. So now we certify ONE chunk of do-everything software in super-processors . . . UGH! I got a call one day to see if I could assist a tech in deducing a problem with a Starship de-ice controller. Upon first sight of the thing spread out on the workbench my first impulse was to turn around and walk back out. The logic boards alone were on two nearly foot-square, multi-layer ECB's with over 100 discrete logic chips on each board. The drawing for the schematic was a roll size thing about 8' long. I was told that the designer received some kind of award for his efforts . . . and left the company a short time later. Clearly not a student of the elegant solution. It's been an interesting line of speculative conversation amongst my peers at Beech as to how things might have been done differently under the design and marketing philosophies of the Beech/Wallace/Lear schools. While Starship was in development, I was working the "Baby Starship" program (GP-180) at Learjet. THAT airplane turned out to be the poor exec's hot rod. Mostly aluminum built on very simple tooling, that airplane was also a large catalog of firsts. Being a mostly aluminum airplane, the performance goals were largely met if not exceeded. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_P.180_Avanti Wichita has been a very interesting place to work and to observe the evolution of general aviation. It's a rich history of successes and failures . . . and a harsh school of hard knocks for evolving marketable recipes for success. I could not have picked a better place to work. Bob . . . Thanks Bob I'll check the sites. Sounds like a replay of the old coffin nose Cord or even the Edsel. Light years ahead of its time and not entirely thought out. Noel ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:19 PM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries redux What is "the old coffin nose Cord"? Thanks. do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 05/15/2011 03:52 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > Thanks Bob I'll check the sites. Sounds like a replay of the old coffin > nose Cord or even the Edsel. Light years ahead of its time and not entirely > thought out. > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:56 PM PST US From: Harley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries redux IMHO, one of the purtiest cars ever made....along with the original Mercedes 300SL Gull wing and the Mercedes C111 (www.pistonheads.com/news/images/6730-1.JPG): The Cord: http://tinyurl.com/69rcv4d Harley ----------------------------------------------------------------- On 5/15/2011 5:04 PM, rayj wrote: > > > What is "the old coffin nose Cord"? > > Thanks. > > do not archive > > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN > > "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, > and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine > > On 05/15/2011 03:52 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: >> Thanks Bob I'll check the sites. Sounds like a replay of the >> old coffin >> nose Cord or even the Edsel. Light years ahead of its time >> and not entirely >> thought out. > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:57 PM PST US From: "Bill Bradburry" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch If you set up a booby trap and someone gets injured, the perp will own everything you have! This has happened on more than one occasion. Do not set up a booby trap! Bill B -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rayj Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:34 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch Greetings, I recall seeing home alarm systems that actually sprayed some sort of tear gas automatically. Seems like it would work in a cockpit too. do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 05/15/2011 02:18 PM, plevyakh wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "plevyakh" > > Some good ideas so far. Mike...I really like the simple one of the note and the LED light! > > It would be interesting to see if this Gorilla lock could be adapted to lock out the control stick or rudder pedals? > > http://www.gorilla-auto.com/the.gorilla.grip.3 > > I came across this site for GPS tracking devices that don't look too expensive. > > http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/gps-tracking-a.html > > I will be putting in an APRS tracking device. But it has to be turned on. I'll have to dig into the details on the APRS more and try to see if it could be used as a theft tracking system as well. > > You raise a great point about if the thief wants to get in....they will. So how to make them THINK....this airplane is too risky to break into? Or scare them off once they've broken in? > > Here's one idea to use a high DB alarm that's triggered when the door is opened. > > http://www.defenseproducts101.com/alarms4.html > > Anyone use a type of high DB alarm triggered by an opened door? I'd like to rig it up with a keyless ON/OFF switch. > > Howard > > -------- > Howard Plevyak > GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio > hplevyak@mac.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339923#339923 > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:27 PM PST US From: "Bill Bradburry" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch Planes are not made of material that will prevent a thief from breaking in and stealing avionics, etc. Alarms will not get anyone's attention. When is the last time you came running over to some idiots car that was alarming! The security that we have come to hate around airports should help some here. To prevent the plane from being stolen, my solution is complexity. To start my plane you must: Turn on the master, turn on the engine battery, (one alone will not cut it, requires both), turn on power to injectors, turn on power to igniters, turn on power to engine computer, turn on power to fuel pump, set mixture to full rich, give 2-3 squirts of primer, hit start button. I ain't sayin' that crooks are too stupid to start my plane, but...as long as it took me to figure it out....some intelligence needs to be rewarded! Bill B -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of plevyakh Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch Folks, I'd like to get some ideas from the forum on how best to secure my airplane. My concern is both with stealing of the entire plane....to breaking in and stealing the avionics. What systems are folks using to secure the plane and it's innards? What do you think would be the cheapest YET most effective? Some ideas: 1) Propeller Lock / Chain: - http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/product/12054 - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/propLockChain.php 2) Door Lock - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aerolocksets.php 3) Throttle Lock - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/throttlelock.php or - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/skylock.php 4) Battery Lock or Kill Switch - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/batterylock.php - http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1010/10002/-1 5) Stick Lock - similar to throttle lock idea.but locks out the controls instead with a padlock and steel bar. 6) Aircraft Alarm System - http://car-alarm-review.toptenreviews.com/viper-car-alarm-review.html TIA for your thoughts. Howard -------- Howard Plevyak GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio hplevyak@mac.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339905#339905 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:12:44 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Beauty on 4-wheels At 05:28 PM 5/15/2011, you wrote: >IMHO, one of the purtiest cars ever made....along with the original >Mercedes 300SL Gull wing and the Mercedes C111 >(www.pistonheads.com/news/images/6730-1.JPG): > >The Cord: http://tinyurl.com/69rcv4d As long as we're talking beauty on 4-wheels, how about the '54 Olds F-88? Only three concept cars made. One of them ended up in the hands of a Cord. http://tinyurl.com/24o27zt do not archive Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:13 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch > > > Some good ideas so far. Mike...I really like the simple one of the note >and the LED light! How about this . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/AC_Theft_Protection.jpg Hardened lock and chain covered in soft leather or felt sleeve. REALLY hard and time consuming to get off. Thieves are basically cowards and lazy. They would move on to somebody else's airplane if they had to deal with this 'inconvenience'. We had clients on 1K1 opt for this system. Most left their doors unlocked. It cost more to repair doors than to replace radios on most of our tenant aircraft. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:18 PM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Unsteelable Airplane (was Key Ignition Switch) Bill I agree that you have a really difficult airplane to be stolen, but you also have many points-of-failure . Carlos > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry > Sent: domingo, 15 de Maio de 2011 23:06 > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch > > > > Planes are not made of material that will prevent a thief from breaking in and > stealing avionics, etc. Alarms will not get anyone's attention. When is the last time > you came running over to some idiots car that was alarming! > > The security that we have come to hate around airports should help some here. > > To prevent the plane from being stolen, my solution is complexity. > To start my plane you must: > Turn on the master, turn on the engine battery, (one alone will not cut it, requires > both), turn on power to injectors, turn on power to igniters, turn on power to engine > computer, turn on power to fuel pump, set mixture to full rich, give 2-3 squirts of > primer, hit start button. > > I ain't sayin' that crooks are too stupid to start my plane, but...as long as it took me > to figure it out....some intelligence needs to be rewarded! > > Bill B > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:19 PM PST US From: RGent1224@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch Yeaah but he can spray paint and get away with it In a message dated 5/15/2011 4:56:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time, bbradburry@bellsouth.net writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Bradburry" If you set up a booby trap and someone gets injured, the perp will own everything you have! This has happened on more than one occasion. Do not set up a booby trap! Bill B -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rayj Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:34 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch Greetings, I recall seeing home alarm systems that actually sprayed some sort of tear gas automatically. Seems like it would work in a cockpit too. do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 05/15/2011 02:18 PM, plevyakh wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "plevyakh" > > Some good ideas so far. Mike...I really like the simple one of the note and the LED light! > > It would be interesting to see if this Gorilla lock could be adapted to lock out the control stick or rudder pedals? > > http://www.gorilla-auto.com/the.gorilla.grip.3 > > I came across this site for GPS tracking devices that don't look too expensive. > > http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/gps-tracking-a.html > > I will be putting in an APRS tracking device. But it has to be turned on. I'll have to dig into the details on the APRS more and try to see if it could be used as a theft tracking system as well. > > You raise a great point about if the thief wants to get in....they will. So how to make them THINK....this airplane is too risky to break into? Or scare them off once they've broken in? > > Here's one idea to use a high DB alarm that's triggered when the door is opened. > > http://www.defenseproducts101.com/alarms4.html > > Anyone use a type of high DB alarm triggered by an opened door? I'd like to rig it up with a keyless ON/OFF switch. > > Howard > > -------- > Howard Plevyak > GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio > hplevyak@mac.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339923#339923 > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:20 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch That might be legal some places south of the 49th but be careful it's not considered a booby trap in your jurisdiction. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rayj Sent: May 15, 2011 6:04 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch Greetings, I recall seeing home alarm systems that actually sprayed some sort of tear gas automatically. Seems like it would work in a cockpit too. do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 05/15/2011 02:18 PM, plevyakh wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "plevyakh" > > Some good ideas so far. Mike...I really like the simple one of the note and the LED light! > > It would be interesting to see if this Gorilla lock could be adapted to lock out the control stick or rudder pedals? > > http://www.gorilla-auto.com/the.gorilla.grip.3 > > I came across this site for GPS tracking devices that don't look too expensive. > > http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/gps-tracking-a.html > > I will be putting in an APRS tracking device. But it has to be turned on. I'll have to dig into the details on the APRS more and try to see if it could be used as a theft tracking system as well. > > You raise a great point about if the thief wants to get in....they will. So how to make them THINK....this airplane is too risky to break into? Or scare them off once they've broken in? > > Here's one idea to use a high DB alarm that's triggered when the door is opened. > > http://www.defenseproducts101.com/alarms4.html > > Anyone use a type of high DB alarm triggered by an opened door? I'd like to rig it up with a keyless ON/OFF switch. > > Howard > > -------- > Howard Plevyak > GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio > hplevyak@mac.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339923#339923 > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:37 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries redux Sorry, every now and then I have to be reminded that not everyone follows great car marques. The coffin nose Cord (1937) was a front wheel drive super charged American car that had a lot of firsts. Amongst many things, It was the first car to have its headlights and tail lights built into the fenders and it had a radio speaker mounted on the forward part of the roof so people in the rear seat could also hear it. It also had a pneumatic pre-select transmission. The idea of that is to make it impossible to miss a gear and grind the tranny. Sometimes it actually worked. It got the name coffin nose because the nose of the car between the fenders looked like a rounded coffin with horizontal trims. I think it is a car that arguably could be one of the five greatest cars ever made. In the list I'd also include the Bugatti type 88 Royale,(Howard Hughes had one) the Duisenberg model J, The Rolls Royce Ghost (London -Edinburgh) and finally the Blower Bently. Any of those cars should get well into seven figures today. Gee am I ever a dreamer! Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rayj Sent: May 15, 2011 6:35 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries redux What is "the old coffin nose Cord"? Thanks. do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 05/15/2011 03:52 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > Thanks Bob I'll check the sites. Sounds like a replay of the old coffin > nose Cord or even the Edsel. Light years ahead of its time and not entirely > thought out. > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:42 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Beauty on 4-wheels Nice choices. Noel From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: May 15, 2011 7:38 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Beauty on 4-wheels At 05:28 PM 5/15/2011, you wrote: IMHO, one of the purtiest cars ever made....along with the original Mercedes 300SL Gull wing and the Mercedes C111 ( www.pistonheads.com/news/images/6730-1.JPG ): The Cord: http://tinyurl.com/69rcv4d As long as we're talking beauty on 4-wheels, how about the '54 Olds F-88? Only three concept cars made. One of them ended up in the hands of a Cord. http://tinyurl.com/24o27zt do not archive Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:42 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch A couple of years ago I was involved with the ground movement of a B737... We never did find the master... After several weeks we looked it up in the manual to try the APU. After sitting for over five years it started right up ... textbook style. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: May 15, 2011 7:36 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch Planes are not made of material that will prevent a thief from breaking in and stealing avionics, etc. Alarms will not get anyone's attention. When is the last time you came running over to some idiots car that was alarming! The security that we have come to hate around airports should help some here. To prevent the plane from being stolen, my solution is complexity. To start my plane you must: Turn on the master, turn on the engine battery, (one alone will not cut it, requires both), turn on power to injectors, turn on power to igniters, turn on power to engine computer, turn on power to fuel pump, set mixture to full rich, give 2-3 squirts of primer, hit start button. I ain't sayin' that crooks are too stupid to start my plane, but...as long as it took me to figure it out....some intelligence needs to be rewarded! Bill B -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of plevyakh Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch Folks, I'd like to get some ideas from the forum on how best to secure my airplane. My concern is both with stealing of the entire plane....to breaking in and stealing the avionics. What systems are folks using to secure the plane and it's innards? What do you think would be the cheapest YET most effective? Some ideas: 1) Propeller Lock / Chain: - http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/product/12054 - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/propLockChain.php 2) Door Lock - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aerolocksets.php 3) Throttle Lock - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/throttlelock.php or - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/skylock.php 4) Battery Lock or Kill Switch - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/batterylock.php - http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1010/10002/-1 5) Stick Lock - similar to throttle lock idea.but locks out the controls instead with a padlock and steel bar. 6) Aircraft Alarm System - http://car-alarm-review.toptenreviews.com/viper-car-alarm-review.html TIA for your thoughts. Howard -------- Howard Plevyak GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio hplevyak@mac.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339905#339905 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:42 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries redux I like the 300SL too but it had some nasty handling characteristics not to mention trying to back it up. Of course there is an argument that that car should never go backwards! The C111 I didn't consider because it just has no personality. BTW I liked getting the side of the model J in your photo too. Now there's a car with personality! Noel From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harley Sent: May 15, 2011 6:59 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries redux IMHO, one of the purtiest cars ever made....along with the original Mercedes 300SL Gull wing and the Mercedes C111 (www.pistonheads.com/news/images/6730-1.JPG): The Cord: http://tinyurl.com/69rcv4d Harley _____ On 5/15/2011 5:04 PM, rayj wrote: What is "the old coffin nose Cord"? Thanks. do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 05/15/2011 03:52 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: Thanks Bob I'll check the sites. Sounds like a replay of the old coffin nose Cord or even the Edsel. Light years ahead of its time and not entirely thought out. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:18 PM PST US From: "Bill Bradburry" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Unsteelable Airplane (was Key Ignition Switch) Carlos, That is true. However, there is two of everything. Bill B _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 6:40 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Unsteelable Airplane (was Key Ignition Switch) Bill I agree that you have a really difficult airplane to be stolen, but you also have many points-of-failure . Carlos > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry > Sent: domingo, 15 de Maio de 2011 23:06 > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch > > > > Planes are not made of material that will prevent a thief from breaking in and > stealing avionics, etc. Alarms will not get anyone's attention. When is the last time > you came running over to some idiots car that was alarming! > > The security that we have come to hate around airports should help some here. > > To prevent the plane from being stolen, my solution is complexity. > To start my plane you must: > Turn on the master, turn on the engine battery, (one alone will not cut it, requires > both), turn on power to injectors, turn on power to igniters, turn on power to engine > computer, turn on power to fuel pump, set mixture to full rich, give 2-3 squirts of > primer, hit start button. > > I ain't sayin' that crooks are too stupid to start my plane, but...as long as it took me > to figure it out....some intelligence needs to be rewarded! > > Bill B > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.