Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:46 AM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (Stuart Hutchison)
2. 04:52 AM - GPS Update (Jerald Folkerts)
3. 05:49 AM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (George, Neal Capt 505 TRS/DOJ)
4. 07:05 AM - Beech Starship (Eric M. Jones)
5. 07:41 AM - Re: Re: Modifying Seat Heater Wiring (rv8iator@gmail.com)
6. 08:17 AM - Re: Key Ignition Switch (plevyakh)
7. 08:22 AM - How to hide anti-rotation keyway holes? (plevyakh)
8. 08:29 AM - Re: Aircraft security, was Key Ignition Switch (glen matejcek)
9. 08:37 AM - Re: How to hide anti-rotation keyway holes? (wschertz@comcast.net)
10. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (David Lloyd)
11. 08:52 AM - Re: Beech Starship (JOHN TIPTON)
12. 09:13 AM - Re: How to hide anti-rotation keyway holes? (Jay Hyde)
13. 09:26 AM - Re: Beech Starship ()
14. 09:56 AM - Re: Beech Starship (Matt Prather)
15. 10:42 AM - Re: Beech Starship (Eric M. Jones)
16. 10:50 AM - Re: Beech Starship (Stein Bruch)
17. 11:09 AM - Re: Beech Starship ()
18. 11:09 AM - Re: Unsteelable Airplane (was Key Ignition Switch) (Eric M. Jones)
19. 11:22 AM - Re: Beech Starship (Eric M. Jones)
20. 11:40 AM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (thomas sargent)
21. 12:15 PM - Re: How to hide anti-rotation keyway holes? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
22. 12:17 PM - Re: Re: Beech Starship (wschertz@comcast.net)
23. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (Carlos Trigo)
24. 04:41 PM - Re: Re: Beech Starship (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
25. 06:11 PM - Re: Re: Key Ignition Switch (Noel Loveys)
26. 07:10 PM - Re: Beech Starship (Noel Loveys)
27. 07:27 PM - Re: Re: Beech Starship (Noel Loveys)
28. 08:47 PM - Re: Re: Beech Starship (Richard Girard)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Key Ignition Switch |
G'day Guys,
Physical security locks are mandatory in Australia. I plan to have a canopy
lock, but for added security, I'm installing one of Bob Newman's Smart Start
modules (www.tcwtech.com). It uses a momentary switch to arm the start
circuit for 1 minute - of course you can locate the momentary switch
anywhwere you like so that it's counter-intuitive to find. I would
recommend the optional air switch to arm the start at flying speeds, and
there's also an option to connect the circuit to an interconnect switch
elsewhere, so that start is disabled until other pre-conditions are met (for
example closing the canopy).
Cheers, Stu
F1 Rocket VH-FLY <http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY>
http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY <about:www.teamrocketaircraft.com>
www.teamrocketaircraft.com
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Welch
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 4:02 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch
> What do you think would be the cheapest YET most effective?
> TIA for your thoughts.
> Howard
Howard,
Here is what I would do, if I was worried about losing an airplane
or airplane parts; (cost...about $.50, if that!)
ATTENTION!!!
If you can read this message, you have already activated
a motion detector & video recorder, and
YOU ARE BEING TAPED!!
IF YOU ARE STILL IN THIS VICINITY WITHIN 3 MINUTES,
THE POLICE WILL BE NOTIFIED VIA A MODEM.
YOU HAVE 2 1/2 MINUTES LEFT BEFORE THE POLICE ARE
CALLED. GOOD BYE!!
You also have a small electronic box sitting inside the plane,
with a flashing RED LED. The box is only visible if you are standing
near the plane, even though it blinks 24/7....they think they
just set it off and are being recorded!! Nobody, and I mean NOBODY
is going to do a thing wrong when they think they are on camera!!
Mike Welch
Message 2
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I saw this in my morning AF Association update: "Empirical Backs Up the
Analytical: Data from testing actual hardware appear to confirm initial
concerns <http://r.listpilot.net/c/afa/68u70rc/2nu56> that a new 4G
wireless broadband network in the United States would interfere with the
Global Positioning Satellite signal, said Gen. William Shelton, head of Air
Force Space Command. "Although the data [are] still being analyzed, I would
tell you that the empirical data [appear] to be consistent with the
analytical data," Shelton told the Senate Armed Services Committee's
strategic forces panel last week. Accordingly, he continued, "we have
concerns" for civil, commercial, and military applications involving GPS.
LightSquared, a telecommunications company headquartered in Reston, Va.,
seeks Federal Communication Commission approval to establish the broadband
network, which would feature thousands of cell phone towers and space-based
augmentation. Those towers could disrupt the GPS signal, and testing of
LightSquared equipment at Kirtland AFB, N.M., with various GPS receivers
seems to confirm that, said Shelton during the May 11 hearing."
Jerry Folkerts
SR2500 #093
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Key Ignition Switch |
Howard -
If a thief wants your airplane or something in it, he's going to take it. Short
of armed and catching him in the act, there's precious little you can do to
stop it. If you make it difficult, he'll just break stuff to get to what he wants.
Some will do additional damage out of pure meanness.
If somebody wants my stuff bad enough to steal it, I'd just as soon they didn't
tear up the airplane in the process. Good insurance at honest values is the
answer to this one.
A canopy cover will discourage the ramp-walking snooper. Some airports require
a prop lock, and it will show the insurance company and HAS/TSA/DEA that you
tried to keep the airplane on the ground.
Neal
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of plevyakh
Folks,
I'd like to get some ideas from the forum on how best to secure my airplane.
My concern is both with stealing of the entire plane....to breaking in and stealing
the avionics.
Message 4
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(Do Not Archive)
There are those who believe that putting propellers behind airfoils, instead of
in the nose where God intended them to be, is a terrible idea. Rutan is quoted
as saying that he only came to this realization very late in his designing life.
I once saw a Starship, or rather I heard the noisiest damned aircraft I had ever
heard. I looked up, put my fingers in my ears, and saw the majestically beautiful
Starship thousands of feet above....making a truly ugly noise that continued
long after the Starship was out of sight.
Bob, funny story on the deicer. I recently reviewed a design project where 40 leds
at 75 volts in series-parallel had to be dimmed. The failed and expensive
PWM controller and elaborate glitch filter was a mean mess o' parts. I specified
an off-the-shelf 1W-WW pot and one resistor to do the whole job.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340003#340003
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Modifying Seat Heater Wiring |
Eric...
The heater is laminated between the upholstery covering (leather, vinyl
etc.) and the foam cushion thus is insulated by the foam. Reflective
material could be used between the cushion and heater pad to reflect some
additional IR. The problem may be finding a reflective material that won't
crush, wrinkle, split and flake the reflective surface over repeated use.
In the past I have used aluminized mylar for IR protection but it's
delicate.
Ideas?
chris stone
RV-8
> I haven't seen the seat heaters, but a question came to me:
> Is the back side of the seat heater insulated and reflective? If not, why
> not? It would use half the power.
> Eh?
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones@charter.net
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Key Ignition Switch |
Folks,
Thanks for all the great inputs. I'm going to keep it simple for now as you suggest
and include the following:
1) Propeller chain lock
2) Throttle lock
3) Canopy cover and or cloth drape over the panel to keep the avionics hidden.
I did find a nice lightweight high DB alarm that would trip when the door is opened.
It's a beam sensor device. This might be added as a winter project down
the road.
Howard
--------
Howard Plevyak
GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio
hplevyak@mac.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340005#340005
Message 7
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Subject: | How to hide anti-rotation keyway holes? |
I'm working on my instrument panel and looking at my switch layout and was wondering
what others have done to hide the .125" anti-rotation keyway washer holes
on a standard S700 Carling switch?
I would like to avoid having to make up a separate face plate over top of my aluminum
switch plate.
Does one NOT drill the keyway hole all the way thru the panel insert?
Does one eliminate the keyway hole and just use loctite on the threads?
Can I just fill the keyway hole with something and apply the paint and then switch
label overtop?
How do the professional panel shops deal with this?
TIA,
Howard
--------
Howard Plevyak
GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio
hplevyak@mac.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340007#340007
Message 8
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Subject: | RE: Aircraft security, was Key Ignition Switch |
Hi All-
A couple thoughts on security: I can't speak to this definitively, but I
doubt there is a huge market for stolen homebuilts. They stand out on the
'secondary' market much more than a spam can, and generally don't carry the
load a drug runner might prefer. Consequently, I suspect aircraft such as
a Glastar, or my RV, aren't likely to ever be a theft target.
For peace of mind sake, though, something like a prop lock and chain is
probably quite effective. Although they aren't all that difficult to
overcome by those who know how to do it, it does make it harder and more
dangerous to mess with that plane than the one sitting right next to it.
The potential problem with anti-theft devices in the cabin is the damage a
crook might do in the process of breaking in, only to discover he can't
take the plane.
As I understand it, by far and away the biggest theft hazard comes from bad
guys using keys to gain entry to plane 'A', swiping the radios, installing
them in plane 'B', and then selling plane 'B's radios. To me, this only
increases the attractiveness of face mounted radios. They're not very
common and therefore have a limited resale market, and they're a whole lot
more difficult / impractical to swipe.
The argument could be made to leave the plane (or your car) unlocked to
prevent unauthorized entry damage, and just not leave any loose valuables
behind.
In my case, I also have a non-intuitive switch configuration required for
start. It's not complex, it doesn't add any potential points of failure
once the engine is running, but I've yet to have any pilot friends figure
it out. It does not include a key switch. Among other things, as I recall
it, there are only a dozen or so keys in all of GA. Someone who
perpetrates these evils in all likelihood already has a key to the switch
you have yet to buy...
FWIW-
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.ne
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: How to hide anti-rotation keyway holes? |
One way is to take a piece of .032 aluminum strip that spans several switch
es, drill the hole for the strip, and the keyway hole, and install it BEHIN
D the panel with the lock tab facing the switch panel. Invisible and fairly
easy.
Bill Schertz
----- Original Message -----
From: "plevyakh" <hplevyak@mac.com>
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 10:19:53 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: How to hide anti-rotation keyway holes?
I'm working on my instrument panel and looking at my switch layout and was
wondering what others have done to hide the .125" anti-rotation keyway wash
er holes on a standard S700 Carling switch?
I would like to avoid having to make up a separate face plate over top of m
y aluminum switch plate.
Does one NOT drill the keyway hole all the way thru the panel insert?
Does one eliminate the keyway hole and just use loctite on the threads?
Can I just fill the keyway hole with something and apply the paint and then
switch label overtop?
How do the professional panel shops deal with this?
TIA,
Howard
--------
Howard Plevyak
GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio
hplevyak@mac.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340007#340007
===========
-
===========
MS -
===========
e -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Key Ignition Switch |
>From my brief view of the "thievery" issue, I think stolen airplanes are the
minor issue.
Thefts from the "panel" are the primary target of the traveling hit and run
crowd. The last hit at our airport was strictly for new, popular model
avionics....that would eventually show up on eBay, Craig's List, etc. We
are also located close to a freeway...not good as the thieves want a quick
exit after hitting an airport.
D
----- Original Message -----
From: "George, Neal Capt 505 TRS/DOJ" <Neal.George@hurlburt.af.mil>
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 5:46 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch
> <Neal.George@hurlburt.af.mil>
>
> Howard -
>
> If a thief wants your airplane or something in it, he's going to take it.
> Short of armed and catching him in the act, there's precious little you
> can do to stop it. If you make it difficult, he'll just break stuff to
> get to what he wants. Some will do additional damage out of pure
> meanness.
>
> If somebody wants my stuff bad enough to steal it, I'd just as soon they
> didn't tear up the airplane in the process. Good insurance at honest
> values is the answer to this one.
>
> A canopy cover will discourage the ramp-walking snooper. Some airports
> require a prop lock, and it will show the insurance company and
> HAS/TSA/DEA that you tried to keep the airplane on the ground.
>
> Neal
>
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of plevyakh
>
> Folks,
> I'd like to get some ideas from the forum on how best to secure my
> airplane.
> My concern is both with stealing of the entire plane....to breaking in and
> stealing the avionics.
>
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Beech Starship |
If God intended them to be at the front why did he call them 'propellers'
!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 3:01 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Beech Starship
> <emjones@charter.net>
>
> (Do Not Archive)
>
> There are those who believe that putting propellers behind airfoils,
> instead of in the nose where God intended them to be, is a terrible idea.
> Rutan is quoted as saying that he only came to this realization very late
> in his designing life.
>
> I once saw a Starship, or rather I heard the noisiest damned aircraft I
> had ever heard. I looked up, put my fingers in my ears, and saw the
> majestically beautiful Starship thousands of feet above....making a truly
> ugly noise that continued long after the Starship was out of sight.
>
> Bob, funny story on the deicer. I recently reviewed a design project where
> 40 leds at 75 volts in series-parallel had to be dimmed. The failed and
> expensive PWM controller and elaborate glitch filter was a mean mess o'
> parts. I specified an off-the-shelf 1W-WW pot and one resistor to do the
> whole job.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones@charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340003#340003
>
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | How to hide anti-rotation keyway holes? |
I=99ve made a couple of panels now and use 2mm thick aluminium
plate for the panel and drill from behind only 1mm deep, which provides
plenty of grip for the tab.
Jay
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
wschertz@comcast.net
Sent: 16 May 2011 05:34 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How to hide anti-rotation keyway holes?
One way is to take a piece of .032 aluminum strip that spans several
switches, drill the hole for the strip, and the keyway hole, and install
it BEHIND the panel with the lock tab facing the switch panel. Invisible
and fairly easy.
Bill Schertz
----- Original Message -----
From: "plevyakh" <hplevyak@mac.com>
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 10:19:53 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: How to hide anti-rotation keyway holes?
I'm working on my instrument panel and looking at my switch layout and
was wondering what others have done to hide the .125" anti-rotation
keyway washer holes on a standard S700 Carling switch?
I would like to avoid having to make up a separate face plate over top
of my aluminum switch plate.
Does one NOT drill the keyway hole all the way thru the panel insert?
Does one eliminate the keyway hole and just use loctite on the threads?
Can I just fill the keyway hole with something and apply the paint and
then switch label overtop?
How do the professional panel shops deal with this?
TIA,
Howard
--------
Howard Plevyak
GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio
hplevyak@mac.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340007#340007
= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
_= - List Contribution Web Site ;
&nb=====================
Message 13
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|
Because we are lazy people and after hundreds of years of tinkering with boats
and such we failed to come up with a better name. In any event, propulsion really
doesn't care from which end it propels. Burt's analogy comes from the designer's
perspective. Perhaps efficiency and ease of installation. There have been
many automotive designs with mid and rear engines - none of them terribly successful.
Porsche is an exception, but the cost of making the engineering work
is not very practical for the average buyer.
Propeller - a device having a revolving hub with radiating blades, for propelling
an airplane, ship, etc.
Looks like the word was developed between 1770-1780. Not much flying back in those
days.
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN TIPTON
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Beech Starship
If God intended them to be at the front why did he call them 'propellers'
!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 3:01 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Beech Starship
> <emjones@charter.net>
>
> (Do Not Archive)
>
> There are those who believe that putting propellers behind airfoils,
> instead of in the nose where God intended them to be, is a terrible idea.
> Rutan is quoted as saying that he only came to this realization very late
> in his designing life.
>
> I once saw a Starship, or rather I heard the noisiest damned aircraft I
> had ever heard. I looked up, put my fingers in my ears, and saw the
> majestically beautiful Starship thousands of feet above....making a truly
> ugly noise that continued long after the Starship was out of sight.
>
> Bob, funny story on the deicer. I recently reviewed a design project where
> 40 leds at 75 volts in series-parallel had to be dimmed. The failed and
> expensive PWM controller and elaborate glitch filter was a mean mess o'
> parts. I specified an off-the-shelf 1W-WW pot and one resistor to do the
> whole job.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones@charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340003#340003
>
>
>
Message 14
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|
Subject: | Re: Beech Starship |
If pusher props are such a bad idea, why don't boats have them on the front? Why
are airplanes different? (I have a Rutan Varieze).
Matt-
On May 16, 2011, at 10:22 AM, <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>
> Because we are lazy people and after hundreds of years of tinkering with boats
and such we failed to come up with a better name. In any event, propulsion really
doesn't care from which end it propels. Burt's analogy comes from the designer's
perspective. Perhaps efficiency and ease of installation. There have
been many automotive designs with mid and rear engines - none of them terribly
successful. Porsche is an exception, but the cost of making the engineering work
is not very practical for the average buyer.
>
> Propeller - a device having a revolving hub with radiating blades, for propelling
an airplane, ship, etc.
>
> Looks like the word was developed between 1770-1780. Not much flying back in
those days.
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN TIPTON
> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:50 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Beech Starship
>
>
> If God intended them to be at the front why did he call them 'propellers'
> !!!
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 3:01 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Beech Starship
>
>
>> <emjones@charter.net>
>>
>> (Do Not Archive)
>>
>> There are those who believe that putting propellers behind airfoils,
>> instead of in the nose where God intended them to be, is a terrible idea.
>> Rutan is quoted as saying that he only came to this realization very late
>> in his designing life.
>>
>> I once saw a Starship, or rather I heard the noisiest damned aircraft I
>> had ever heard. I looked up, put my fingers in my ears, and saw the
>> majestically beautiful Starship thousands of feet above....making a truly
>> ugly noise that continued long after the Starship was out of sight.
>>
>> Bob, funny story on the deicer. I recently reviewed a design project where
>> 40 leds at 75 volts in series-parallel had to be dimmed. The failed and
>> expensive PWM controller and elaborate glitch filter was a mean mess o'
>> parts. I specified an off-the-shelf 1W-WW pot and one resistor to do the
>> whole job.
>>
>> --------
>> Eric M. Jones
>> www.PerihelionDesign.com
>> 113 Brentwood Drive
>> Southbridge, MA 01550
>> (508) 764-2072
>> emjones@charter.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340003#340003
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Beech Starship |
(do not archive)
Everything on an airplane got a French name while the Wright brothers were figuring
out how to patent their way to fame and riches.
The French called it an Air-Screw, or just a screw (helice)
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340027#340027
Message 16
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Surprisingly, most modern large ships in fact do use tractor props mounted
on Azipods...
Cheers,
Stein
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Prather
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Beech Starship
<mapratherid@gmail.com>
If pusher props are such a bad idea, why don't boats have them on the front?
Why are airplanes different? (I have a Rutan Varieze).
Matt-
On May 16, 2011, at 10:22 AM, <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>
> Because we are lazy people and after hundreds of years of tinkering with
boats and such we failed to come up with a better name. In any event,
propulsion really doesn't care from which end it propels. Burt's analogy
comes from the designer's perspective. Perhaps efficiency and ease of
installation. There have been many automotive designs with mid and rear
engines - none of them terribly successful. Porsche is an exception, but the
cost of making the engineering work is not very practical for the average
buyer.
>
> Propeller - a device having a revolving hub with radiating blades, for
propelling an airplane, ship, etc.
>
> Looks like the word was developed between 1770-1780. Not much flying back
in those days.
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN
TIPTON
> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:50 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Beech Starship
>
<jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
>
> If God intended them to be at the front why did he call them 'propellers'
> !!!
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 3:01 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Beech Starship
>
>
>> <emjones@charter.net>
>>
>> (Do Not Archive)
>>
>> There are those who believe that putting propellers behind airfoils,
>> instead of in the nose where God intended them to be, is a terrible idea.
>> Rutan is quoted as saying that he only came to this realization very late
>> in his designing life.
>>
>> I once saw a Starship, or rather I heard the noisiest damned aircraft I
>> had ever heard. I looked up, put my fingers in my ears, and saw the
>> majestically beautiful Starship thousands of feet above....making a truly
>> ugly noise that continued long after the Starship was out of sight.
>>
>> Bob, funny story on the deicer. I recently reviewed a design project
where
>> 40 leds at 75 volts in series-parallel had to be dimmed. The failed and
>> expensive PWM controller and elaborate glitch filter was a mean mess o'
>> parts. I specified an off-the-shelf 1W-WW pot and one resistor to do the
>> whole job.
>>
>> --------
>> Eric M. Jones
>> www.PerihelionDesign.com
>> 113 Brentwood Drive
>> Southbridge, MA 01550
>> (508) 764-2072
>> emjones@charter.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340003#340003
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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|
I would say it is result of a boats tendency to constantly bounce out of the water
- thus making the propeller far less effective when it's spinning in the air.
Actually larger boats do utilize forward propellers for steering into docks
when parking or making sharp turns. They work exceedingly well at slow speeds.
I don't think anyone will argue the physics of rear driven aircraft. There are
some practical compromises like balance which you overcome with the praying nose
wheel. That's not to say forward driven airplanes don't suffer compromises.
They certainly do. This is largely about marketing to the masses and what the
public is willing to accept.
If Cessna had put all of their engines in the back of the plane, we'll all think
that was normal and would wonder why those other funny people stick them on
the front.
Do Not Archive
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Prather
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Beech Starship
If pusher props are such a bad idea, why don't boats have them on the front? Why
are airplanes different? (I have a Rutan Varieze).
Matt-
On May 16, 2011, at 10:22 AM, <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>
> Because we are lazy people and after hundreds of years of tinkering with boats
and such we failed to come up with a better name. In any event, propulsion really
doesn't care from which end it propels. Burt's analogy comes from the designer's
perspective. Perhaps efficiency and ease of installation. There have
been many automotive designs with mid and rear engines - none of them terribly
successful. Porsche is an exception, but the cost of making the engineering work
is not very practical for the average buyer.
>
> Propeller - a device having a revolving hub with radiating blades, for propelling
an airplane, ship, etc.
>
> Looks like the word was developed between 1770-1780. Not much flying back in
those days.
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN TIPTON
> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:50 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Beech Starship
>
>
> If God intended them to be at the front why did he call them 'propellers'
> !!!
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 3:01 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Beech Starship
>
>
>> <emjones@charter.net>
>>
>> (Do Not Archive)
>>
>> There are those who believe that putting propellers behind airfoils,
>> instead of in the nose where God intended them to be, is a terrible idea.
>> Rutan is quoted as saying that he only came to this realization very late
>> in his designing life.
>>
>> I once saw a Starship, or rather I heard the noisiest damned aircraft I
>> had ever heard. I looked up, put my fingers in my ears, and saw the
>> majestically beautiful Starship thousands of feet above....making a truly
>> ugly noise that continued long after the Starship was out of sight.
>>
>> Bob, funny story on the deicer. I recently reviewed a design project where
>> 40 leds at 75 volts in series-parallel had to be dimmed. The failed and
>> expensive PWM controller and elaborate glitch filter was a mean mess o'
>> parts. I specified an off-the-shelf 1W-WW pot and one resistor to do the
>> whole job.
>>
>> --------
>> Eric M. Jones
>> www.PerihelionDesign.com
>> 113 Brentwood Drive
>> Southbridge, MA 01550
>> (508) 764-2072
>> emjones@charter.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340003#340003
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Unsteelable Airplane (was Key Ignition Switch) |
Okay...here's a guy with a foolproof Tesla Force Field:
http://tesladownunder.com/Tesladownunder's%20Car%20Theft%20Pevention%201000.jpg
The function of a blinking led on the panel is nicely satisfied by LV Warning Annunciators.
I sell one, many people do.
My plan is to have NO visible door locks. The remotes auto-parts guys sell are
very reliable. I haven't EVER used my Jeep door key. For internal security, I
have a handle to pull, in emergencies that: Turns off the fuel, triggers the ELT,
disconnects the battery, and perhaps several aother features. When the handle
is removed, stealing the airplane would be very hard.
I also want to have control handles (full of interlocks and electronics) that can
be removed for security by Amphenol-Cannon connectors.
We live in a world where a video of the thief is easy to capture, personal possessions
can be tracked, and being a thief is a dicey way to make a living. See:
http://dendritelaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Hijacker-Injector-3841328.pdf
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340029#340029
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Beech Starship |
> I don't think anyone will argue the physics of rear driven aircraft. There are
some practical compromises like balance which you overcome with the praying
nose wheel. That's not to say forward driven airplanes don't suffer compromises.
They certainly do. This is largely about marketing to the masses and what the
public is willing to accept.
...A propeller in undisturbed air, and an engine where cooling is easy is a recipe
for good design. NO record-speed-holder airplane is rear driven. A propeller
blade which has to cut through the aircrafts' wake makes for a noisy and inefficient
prop.
The prop in the rear is style.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340031#340031
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: Key Ignition Switch |
I don't have an ignition switch in my 6A. I ran the line from the master
switch to a banana jack and continued it on from another banana jack next to
it. A 2 pronged banana plug (see photo attached) plugs into both of them. A
wire across the screw terminals of the plug shorts the 2 prongs together.
So, that shorting plug is my "ignition key". I have regular toggle switches
for the master switch (a 3 position switch - off, battery, battery + alt)
and two other separate toggles switches for the magneto and the electronic
ignition. Simple and light.
The 2 pronged banana plug can be bought at any radio shack or electronic
parts store. With the plug removed the master switch is disabled. There
are these 2 innocuous banana jacks in the panel which are unlabeled. I'm
guessing most people looking at the panel wouldn't pay them any attention or
guess what they do. My electrical system is otherwise Bob K's venerable
Z-11.
--
Tom Sargent
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: How to hide anti-rotation keyway holes? |
At 11:19 AM 5/16/2011, you wrote:
>
>I'm working on my instrument panel and looking at my switch layout
>and was wondering what others have done to hide the .125"
>anti-rotation keyway washer holes on a standard S700 Carling switch?
>
>I would like to avoid having to make up a separate face plate over
>top of my aluminum switch plate.
Okay, then instead of making an overlay to take your
switch placards and hide holes in the panel, make as
switch underlay sheet to go BEHIND the panel and
provide holes for the anti-rotation washers which are
also on the back of the panel.
>Does one NOT drill the keyway hole all the way thru
If your panel is thick enough, you can drill 'divots'
on the back side deep enough so that the hole has
just reached the full diameter of the bit. Then take
a second bit of the same size that you've converted to
a 'spot facer' by grinding it flat. Use this to
flatten the bottom of your tab hole. You may have to
shorten the tab on the washer a bit. This plan is
much more labor intensive. The underlayment sheet
seems a faster and cleaner options.
>Does one eliminate the keyway hole and just use loctite on the threads?
Please don't.
>Can I just fill the keyway hole with something and apply the paint
>and then switch label overtop?
Something like JB Weld could be used as a robust
"body putty" . ..
>How do the professional panel shops deal with this?
I've always used and overlay placard . . . usually
an engraved plastic produced by a sign and badge
shop. Use it to cover thru-holes for anti-rotation
washers installed on the back side of the panel.
Bob . . .
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Beech Starship |
I believe "Pushy Galore" set all kinds of climb records
Bill Scherz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
.
...A propeller in undisturbed air, and an engine where cooling is easy is a recipe
for good design. NO record-speed-holder airplane is rear driven. A propeller
blade which has to cut through the aircrafts' wake makes for a noisy and inefficient
prop.
The prop in the rear is style.
--------
Eric M. Jones
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: Key Ignition Switch |
Tom
So, the ideal thief for your airplane would be a guy who works for Radio
Shack .... :-) just couldn't resist
Carlos
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of thomas
sargent
Sent: segunda-feira, 16 de Maio de 2011 19:37
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch
I don't have an ignition switch in my 6A. I ran the line from the master
switch to a banana jack and continued it on from another banana jack next to
it. A 2 pronged banana plug (see photo attached) plugs into both of them. A
wire across the screw terminals of the plug shorts the 2 prongs together.
So, that shorting plug is my "ignition key". I have regular toggle switches
for the master switch (a 3 position switch - off, battery, battery + alt)
and two other separate toggles switches for the magneto and the electronic
ignition. Simple and light.
The 2 pronged banana plug can be bought at any radio shack or electronic
parts store. With the plug removed the master switch is disabled. There
are these 2 innocuous banana jacks in the panel which are unlabeled. I'm
guessing most people looking at the panel wouldn't pay them any attention or
guess what they do. My electrical system is otherwise Bob K's venerable
Z-11.
--
Tom Sargent
Message 24
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|
Subject: | Re: Beech Starship |
At 03:15 PM 5/16/2011, you wrote:
>I believe "Pushy Galore" set all kinds of climb records
and so did the P-180. To be sure, there are compromises
in every final design decision. Getting one attractive
feature is often at the expense of other features. But
if the student is attentive to life's lessons, the next adventure
will be more exciting than the past.
A turbine powered Bonanza was seriously considered at
one time. Project PD336. One was built and flown, I
think a second one started. The last time I saw
S/N 1 it was looking rather naked on a pallet of foam
outside Burt's hangar in Mojave.
Emacs!
I think he arranged some kind of trade for the carcass . . . I believe
he wanted the engine, prop and instruments.
The airplane was a real performer . . . with lousy range. But we
learned some things and it didn't go into production. This was the
program that validated the crowbar ov protection idea from the
certified aircraft perspective. It would be years before the first
ones flew in B&C's LR series regulators . . .
We learned a lot from the Starship too. After taking the write-off
on the Starship, I'm told we made it all back as a supplier of
custom composite parts. Nobody ever said useful education is
inexpensive. Sometimes even the worst mistakes can be parlayed
into useful follow-on ventures.
Bob . . .
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: Key Ignition Switch |
Scrap the sign and just put the LED in with a label that says "Modem Active"
The alternative is to actually install a camera, GPS and modem that's active
24/7... that way you can keep tabs on your plane any time you want. A GPS
enabled phone left in the cargo compartment or mounted behind the battery
may be all you need.
Noel
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Welch
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 4:02 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Key Ignition Switch
> What do you think would be the cheapest YET most effective?
> TIA for your thoughts.
> Howard
Howard,
Here is what I would do, if I was worried about losing an airplane
or airplane parts; (cost...about $.50, if that!)
ATTENTION!!!
If you can read this message, you have already activated
a motion detector & video recorder, and
YOU ARE BEING TAPED!!
IF YOU ARE STILL IN THIS VICINITY WITHIN 3 MINUTES,
THE POLICE WILL BE NOTIFIED VIA A MODEM.
YOU HAVE 2 1/2 MINUTES LEFT BEFORE THE POLICE ARE
CALLED. GOOD BYE!!
You also have a small electronic box sitting inside the plane,
with a flashing RED LED. The box is only visible if you are standing
near the plane, even though it blinks 24/7....they think they
just set it off and are being recorded!! Nobody, and I mean NOBODY
is going to do a thing wrong when they think they are on camera!!
Mike Welch
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 26
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|
The short answer is the viscosity of the fluid in which they operate is
different. The aspect of the blades is also different and if you look
closely at the design of our board and isopod thrusters the prop is actually
well faired to the gearbox. The shorter aspect ratio of water props allows
them to operate without experiencing the disruptive vortices a pusher prop
will always experience.
There are many other factors which can cause a prop to be noisy. The shape
of the blade the speed of rotation and certainly the speed of the plane
itself. If you want to hear a really noisy prop just try listening to
Russian counter turning props they used on Tu-95 (Bear) bombers. Even
people in other planes can hear them coming!
I wonder if some sort of a duct for the blades on the star ship would
contain the sound. Ducting the exhaust outside the prop arc would also
probably work.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Prather
Sent: May 16, 2011 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Beech Starship
<mapratherid@gmail.com>
If pusher props are such a bad idea, why don't boats have them on the front?
Why are airplanes different? (I have a Rutan Varieze).
Matt-
On May 16, 2011, at 10:22 AM, <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>
> Because we are lazy people and after hundreds of years of tinkering with
boats and such we failed to come up with a better name. In any event,
propulsion really doesn't care from which end it propels. Burt's analogy
comes from the designer's perspective. Perhaps efficiency and ease of
installation. There have been many automotive designs with mid and rear
engines - none of them terribly successful. Porsche is an exception, but the
cost of making the engineering work is not very practical for the average
buyer.
>
> Propeller - a device having a revolving hub with radiating blades, for
propelling an airplane, ship, etc.
>
> Looks like the word was developed between 1770-1780. Not much flying back
in those days.
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN
TIPTON
> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:50 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Beech Starship
>
<jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
>
> If God intended them to be at the front why did he call them 'propellers'
> !!!
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 3:01 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Beech Starship
>
>
>> <emjones@charter.net>
>>
>> (Do Not Archive)
>>
>> There are those who believe that putting propellers behind airfoils,
>> instead of in the nose where God intended them to be, is a terrible idea.
>> Rutan is quoted as saying that he only came to this realization very late
>> in his designing life.
>>
>> I once saw a Starship, or rather I heard the noisiest damned aircraft I
>> had ever heard. I looked up, put my fingers in my ears, and saw the
>> majestically beautiful Starship thousands of feet above....making a truly
>> ugly noise that continued long after the Starship was out of sight.
>>
>> Bob, funny story on the deicer. I recently reviewed a design project
where
>> 40 leds at 75 volts in series-parallel had to be dimmed. The failed and
>> expensive PWM controller and elaborate glitch filter was a mean mess o'
>> parts. I specified an off-the-shelf 1W-WW pot and one resistor to do the
>> whole job.
>>
>> --------
>> Eric M. Jones
>> www.PerihelionDesign.com
>> 113 Brentwood Drive
>> Southbridge, MA 01550
>> (508) 764-2072
>> emjones@charter.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340003#340003
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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Subject: | Re: Beech Starship |
I've flown in aircraft like the Lake LA-4 which has a tower mounted pusher
prop and a modified Volmer Jensen VJ-22 Sportsman with a 125 Hp Lycoming
tractor... also tower mounted. Guess which one was louder. That said I
agree the tractor config is more efficient.
The advantage of the props on the star ship is it allow much more torque to
accelerate off short runways compared to straight turbines. It's too bad
they didn't have the finances to work out the bugs.
This is not the first time this has happened. The Tucker automobile was
another car among cars with more innovations than Lipton has teabags but you
will probably never even see one.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M.
Jones
Sent: May 16, 2011 3:48 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Beech Starship
<emjones@charter.net>
> I don't think anyone will argue the physics of rear driven aircraft. There
are some practical compromises like balance which you overcome with the
praying nose wheel. That's not to say forward driven airplanes don't suffer
compromises. They certainly do. This is largely about marketing to the
masses and what the public is willing to accept.
...A propeller in undisturbed air, and an engine where cooling is easy is a
recipe for good design. NO record-speed-holder airplane is rear driven. A
propeller blade which has to cut through the aircrafts' wake makes for a
noisy and inefficient prop.
The prop in the rear is style.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340031#340031
Message 28
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|
Subject: | Re: Beech Starship |
Way outside the topic, but I can't resist the temptation to tell this story.
In the mid seventies I was working in the tooling machine shop at Cessna's
Pawnee Plant and fell in with a bunch of street rodders. I got my heart set
on a track roadster with a 26 or 27 T body and one day I spotted a body
sitting in a warehouse just south of the Sante Fe tracks in Wellington, a
little town about 25 miles south of Wichita. I pulled over and started
poking around, looking for someone to ask about it when a fellow called to
me from across the street. I told him what I wanted and we started talking
about this and that and he invited me into his shop. As we passed from the
customer waiting area of the body shop into the back, he asked me if I'd
ever heard of a car called the Tucker. I said, yes, when I was a kid my
grandparents used to take me to San Francisco and we always stopped at this
little odd ball museum and curiosity shop called Sutros on the way to the
beach and they had one. Well then he said, you'll appreciate this and opened
the door. There were seven Tuckers sitting there along with three Cords.
When I pulled my jaw back into position I found out the story. Seems these
two brothers had established a niche for themselves restoring Cords and that
led them into restoring Tuckers (the Tucker used the Cord's transmission). I
only wish I had had a camera.
Rick Girard
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
> I've flown in aircraft like the Lake LA-4 which has a tower mounted pusher
> prop and a modified Volmer Jensen VJ-22 Sportsman with a 125 Hp Lycoming
> tractor... also tower mounted. Guess which one was louder. That said I
> agree the tractor config is more efficient.
>
> The advantage of the props on the star ship is it allow much more torque to
> accelerate off short runways compared to straight turbines. It's too bad
> they didn't have the finances to work out the bugs.
>
> This is not the first time this has happened. The Tucker automobile was
> another car among cars with more innovations than Lipton has teabags but
> you
> will probably never even see one.
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M.
> Jones
> Sent: May 16, 2011 3:48 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Beech Starship
>
> <emjones@charter.net>
>
>
> > I don't think anyone will argue the physics of rear driven aircraft.
> There
> are some practical compromises like balance which you overcome with the
> praying nose wheel. That's not to say forward driven airplanes don't suffer
> compromises. They certainly do. This is largely about marketing to the
> masses and what the public is willing to accept.
>
>
> ...A propeller in undisturbed air, and an engine where cooling is easy is a
> recipe for good design. NO record-speed-holder airplane is rear driven. A
> propeller blade which has to cut through the aircrafts' wake makes for a
> noisy and inefficient prop.
>
> The prop in the rear is style.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones@charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340031#340031
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
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