---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/02/11: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:19 AM - Re: Power Stabilizer (Stuart Hutchison) 2. 07:02 AM - Re: Power Stabilizer (Tim Olson) 3. 08:16 AM - Repacing coax (Sheldon Olesen) 4. 09:08 AM - Re: Power Stabilizer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 11:02 AM - Re: Power Stabilizer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 11:05 AM - Re: Repacing coax (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 11:09 AM - OOPS_Repacing coax (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 11:14 AM - Re: Re: AEC Modules (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 11:30 AM - Re: Brass bus bar (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 11:34 AM - Re: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 05:14 PM - Re: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit (Vern Little) 12. 06:47 PM - Re: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit (Mike Welch) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:19:00 AM PST US From: "Stuart Hutchison" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Power Stabilizer You're right Bob ... I have no idea if the D700 will reboot on start ... maybe not, but I am cranking an IO-540. Yes, no doubt I am overcapitalising and weighing down the aircraft by chasing shadows in some areas. If I'd been smart I would have first explained that I don't have a vaccum system or a backup alternator, so I will be more comfortable with a separate backup battery in an emergency (which may not needed either). Kind regards, Stu >Thanks Bob, > >I like the idea that my EFIS won't reboot during engine start - cos I >want to see the oil pressure right about then. Do you KNOW that it will? There are thousands of discussions based on the "possibility" of a system rebooting based on the experiences and perhaps third-hand observations of others. A lot of band-aids have been pasted onto OBAM aircraft in response to a worry for experiencing some condition that is not well identified or explained. It may be that the rumor started simply because some pilot was pushing his battery too far past it's service life . . . or perhaps it was too small. A battery that gets replaced when the capacity drops below battery only design goals is still quite capable of starting the engine. But a battery with no endurance goals (like in Z-13/8) may get so soggy that some systems start complain about bus voltage depression during starter engagement. This might well be the pre-flight warning that says it's time to replace the battery. >Either way, I'm a newbie to this forum and feel very fortunate to have >such experienced and articulate guys to help numpties like me steer a >true course. Can't do that . . . we know nothing about the specifics of your airplane's configuration nor your personal philosophy for operating and maintaining it. What we can do is help you sort through much common knowledge or public consensus that is mere floobydust. We can suggest that you add no prophylactic feature until you know you need it. If you're duplicating a configuration that is demonstrated to benefit from some add-on accessory, fine. But the four-color brochures and worry-hype that promotes many products may have no foundation in reality for how your airplane is going together. Finally, what we can do is offer tools for deducing the root cause of an observed problem and either eliminating that cause by design or masking it with some add-on accessory. Short answer: don't buy anything that you don't find on a C-150 or hundreds of RV's already flying until you KNOW you need it. >I assume then that OV is the reason confusers (computers) are >susceptible to lightning activity without a 'surge' protector? As others have pointed out, that's a whole different world than the DC power system for your air vehicle . . . or car. But in that world too, purchasing additional 'surge protection' is more worry-hype than useful protection. People who build devices that plug into walls KNOW much about the hazards associated with that source. The so-called 'surge protection' offered by Office- Max add-ons are metal oxide varistors, the same 20 cent devices ALREADY installed in the power supply for your computer . . . the same devices that will become toast if the line behind your house takes a direct strike. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:39 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Power Stabilizer Stu, I've been on this forum now for about 7-8 years, and it's been a great place to pick up some good information. I've been flying my kit now for 5 years, so these days I'm only on the forum to get the very very occasional nugget of gold in all the pile of garbage. Bob is a very knowledgeable resource, and literally "wrote the book" on many of the great design philosophies that we can use as experimental builders. His concepts of simplicity for reliability are wonderful. That said, it became apparent to me a long time ago that Bob must simply, now that he's retired, live his avionics life in his own world...a vacuum where outside information on new products just isn't received. It's almost like he was out of the business before the EFIS was even invented, although I'm sure that somewhere along the line he spent lots of time helping even design some robust power systems for EFIS implementations. At any rate, I can only imagine that much of his information is dated, and revolves around the products that were available back in his working day. I'm sure that not only does he not know the details of how today's experimental EFIS products operate, but he doesn't have any manufacturer specific knowledge from Grand Rapids, AFS, Garmin, Cobham/Chelton, MGL, or whatever EFIS and other products you have. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm sure he doesn't go to OSH and spend time talking with the manufacturers to know the details on how their systems run. I'm also sure that he hasn't taken the time to stop by TCW Tech's booth at OSH and see their demo on the IBBS and Power Stabilizer products, to actually see them in action and talk to Bob Newman. It's the same as how Bob K. could care less about really helping people design better alternator integrations with internally regulated alternators. They're not what he's designed and sold, and they're not what he's spent his time promoting and working with, and he probably just really doesn't care about those things. If you don't agree with his philosophy, or you insist on using something that he doesn't promote, getting useful commentary and help from him will be like beating your head on the wall. So you're really on your own or need to rely on the other people in the forum to fill in the blanks. Personally, I own neither TCW's IBBS nor their power stabilizer....they simply weren't around when I was building my panel. But, I had design goals similar to yours. I wanted redundancy, reliability, endurance, and no headaches during startup. So I designed my system so that during engine start, things like my Electronic Ignition, my EFIS, my WSI weather, and such, could be powered by it's own power source. Much the same as what the IBBS will do for you, only not packaged into a great form factor that is smaller and lighter. The benefits are great. I *know* for a fact, that many EFIS's will reboot if you crank the starter with them on the same power source. I have people come ask me all the time what they can do to avoid that...they have that problem. When I sit in the plane, I turn on my EFIS and Weather, and AHRS and get it booting. An AHRS is a precision instrument. Specs on certified planes even say a 2 minute temperature stabilization period is allowed to bring the AHRS up to temp. There is a heater circuit in there to do just that. So many EFIS's will take a while to boot and stabilize before you should move. Also, weather devices will take a while to start downloading the Nexrad and other weather. So I personally want to be able to boot my equipment, while preflighting, and that allows me to have full engine instrumentation and function at the time the key is turned. I don't have to spend 5 minutes on the ground waiting for that Nexrad image to show, before I launch into that 300' ceiling for an IFR flight. And, in the event that something makes me do an engine shutdown out in the runup area, I'm not sitting there waiting for everything to come up again...my EFIS can be left on during the engine restart. So there are some really good reasons to do what you're doing, with today's EFIS's. And you're on the right track. Bob Newman has made some great products that you can use to better your aircraft in an easy way. Some of these power stabilization type things are even noted by Garmin, because there is good reason to keep stable power to them. This isn't the day and age of the electric gyro...and we're not necessarily trying to protect from surges and spikes....it's the brownout that is the issue. Some EFIS's have internal batteries you can buy, or they may even be included with them, to help prevent this. So the real issue is to know if YOUR EFIS does, and if it doesn't, then personally I don't care who makes the EFIS, it's probably worth putting something like that in front of it. Just make sure you're also taking into account the possible associated failure modes of any add on device you use, so that you don't actually lessen your safety under some circumstance. In the end you'll be able to have a very robust system. It's just too bad that Bob K. doesn't spend more time actually trying to understand the products that 90% of the current builder crop will be using. It would really be nice to get useful info on some specific systems, from someone as knowledgeable as he. But as it is, buy the book, read the book, understand Bob's underlying philosophies, because they're good. But then realize that if it's not in the book, you're going to need to ask other builders for help, because he's probably not going to take enough interest in your exact product layout to give you good guidance. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive On 6/2/2011 5:12 AM, Stuart Hutchison wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stuart Hutchison" > > You're right Bob ... I have no idea if the D700 will reboot on start ... > maybe not, but I am cranking an IO-540. Yes, no doubt I am overcapitalising > and weighing down the aircraft by chasing shadows in some areas. If I'd been > smart I would have first explained that I don't have a vaccum system or a > backup alternator, so I will be more comfortable with a separate backup > battery in an emergency (which may not needed either). > > Kind regards, Stu > > >> Thanks Bob, >> >> I like the idea that my EFIS won't reboot during engine start - cos I >> want to see the oil pressure right about then. > > Do you KNOW that it will? There are thousands of discussions > based on the "possibility" of a system rebooting based on > the experiences and perhaps third-hand observations of others. > > A lot of band-aids have been pasted onto OBAM aircraft in > response to a worry for experiencing some condition that > is not well identified or explained. It may be that the > rumor started simply because some pilot was pushing his > battery too far past it's service life . . . or perhaps > it was too small. A battery that gets replaced when the > capacity drops below battery only design goals is still > quite capable of starting the engine. But a battery with > no endurance goals (like in Z-13/8) may get so soggy that > some systems start complain about bus voltage depression during > starter engagement. This might well be the pre-flight > warning that says it's time to replace the battery. > >> Either way, I'm a newbie to this forum and feel very fortunate to have >> such experienced and articulate guys to help numpties like me steer a >> true course. > > Can't do that . . . we know nothing about the specifics > of your airplane's configuration nor your personal philosophy > for operating and maintaining it. What we can do is help > you sort through much common knowledge or public consensus > that is mere floobydust. > > We can suggest that you add no prophylactic feature > until you know you need it. If you're duplicating a > configuration that is demonstrated to benefit from some > add-on accessory, fine. But the four-color brochures > and worry-hype that promotes many products may have > no foundation in reality for how your airplane is > going together. > > Finally, what we can do is offer tools for deducing > the root cause of an observed problem and either > eliminating that cause by design or masking it with > some add-on accessory. > > Short answer: don't buy anything that you don't find > on a C-150 or hundreds of RV's already flying until > you KNOW you need it. > > >> I assume then that OV is the reason confusers (computers) are >> susceptible to lightning activity without a 'surge' protector? > > As others have pointed out, that's a whole different > world than the DC power system for your air vehicle . . . > or car. But in that world too, purchasing additional 'surge > protection' is more worry-hype than useful protection. > > People who build devices that plug into walls KNOW > much about the hazards associated with that source. > The so-called 'surge protection' offered by Office- > Max add-ons are metal oxide varistors, the same > 20 cent devices ALREADY installed in the power > supply for your computer . . . the same devices > that will become toast if the line behind your > house takes a direct strike. > > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:42 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Repacing coax From: Sheldon Olesen Hi Bob, I've been working on getting my 1983 Long-EZ back to flying condition. It has RG-58 coax and BNC's with a soldered center conductor and the screw together compression fitting for the exterior shielding. There are also splices done with BNC's to change radios over the years. There have been issues with the transponder and the com transmitter (copper foil antenna in the winglet) over the years. Is it worth while from a performance perspective to swap out the RG-58 and replace it with RG-400 and new crimp connectors? If this is worth doing, how do I deal with the coax coming out of the BNC's on the radio trays? Can the RG-400 be spliced to the RG-59 just beyond the the tray BNC's? Sheldon Olesen Sent from my iPad ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:08 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Power Stabilizer At 09:57 AM 6/2/2011, you wrote: Stu, I've been on this forum now for about 7-8 years, and it's been a great place to pick up some good information. I've been flying my kit now for 5 years, so these days I'm only on the forum to get the very very occasional nugget of gold in all the pile of garbage. Bob is a very knowledgeable resource, and literally "wrote the book" on many of the great design philosophies that we can use as experimental builders. His concepts of simplicity for reliability are wonderful. That said, it became apparent to me a long time ago that Bob must simply, now that he's retired, live his avionics life in his own world...a vacuum where outside information on new products just isn't received. Actually, I'm on contract with HBC for three programs . . . . It's almost like he was out of the business before the EFIS was even invented, The Starship, our flash-in-the-fire project flew in 1989 with the first all-glass cockpit to fly at Beech. Collins did the system with distributed processors. I was told that the system contained over 100 such devices. The EFIS has been around for quite some time. I can only imagine that much of his information is dated, and revolves around the products that were available back in his working day. Gee Tim, I've only been 'retired' for three years. I'm sure that not only does he not know the details of how today's experimental EFIS products operate, but he doesn't have any manufacturer specific knowledge from Grand Rapids, AFS, Garmin, Cobham/Chelton, MGL, or whatever EFIS and other products you have. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm sure he doesn't go to OSH and spend time talking with the manufacturers to know the details on how their systems run. I've NEVER had intimate knowledge of inner workings of such devices from any of those suppliers except when there were performance failures to resolve . . . But I do know that when any of those suppliers approaches a TC aircraft house, the first question coming in the door is "how well do you integrate with aircraft systems?" In other words, have you done your DO-160 homework? http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Philosophy/Whats_all_this_DO160_Stuff_Anyhow.pdf I'm also sure that he hasn't taken the time to stop by TCW Tech's booth at OSH and see their demo on the IBBS and Power Stabilizer products, to actually see them in action and talk to Bob Newman. Again, irrelevant. I'm quite certain that the TCW products perform precisely as advertised. The question is not "Does it work?" The question is "Do I need one and why?" Finally, "If I do need one, is it not better to deduce the driving deficiency and correct that as opposed to pasting on a band-aid?" It's the same as how Bob K. could care less about really helping people design better alternator integrations with internally regulated alternators. Say what? You seem to recall nothing of the thousands of words I have published on my website, written for this forum, and published in my book. So you're really on your own or need to rely on the other people in the forum to fill in the blanks. Please do fill in the blanks. Please quote any paragraph from the List-Server archives, from my website or my book wherein I have "bad mouthed" any alternator of any style. In fact, here is an exchange in which both you and I were participants: http://tinyurl.com/65lze95 The Plane Power is an internally regulated alternator NOT designed by me that has been modified to meet legacy design goals for engine driven power sources. Check out latest revision to chapter on Alternators in the book. You can download it for free. Personally, I own neither TCW's IBBS nor their power stabilizer....they simply weren't around when I was building my panel. But they COULD have been. DC-DC converters are 60-year old technology. Most avionics include one in their architecture. Standby batteries are text-book implementations dating back decades. Why, just now, is it suddenly a GOOD thing to start pasting these devices into what MIGHT be a perfectly workable system without them? Is it not better to leave such devices on the ground if a work-around offers the opportunity with less cost, weight and complexity without sacrificing failure tolerance? But, I had design goals similar to yours. I wanted redundancy, reliability, endurance, and no headaches during startup. Your design goals are impressive, lengthy, and certainly "covers all the bases." They give one pause to wonder how single-engine, general aviation aircraft got on so admirably with so little hardware and so few backups to backups thrown in with the kitchen sink. It's just too bad that Bob K. doesn't spend more time actually trying to understand the products that 90% of the current builder crop will be using. ??? I'm mystified as to the source of information to support your assertions. You don't need a direct pipeline into the inner workings of any product for the purpose of deducing (1) the need for such a device to meet a design goal and (2) suitability of the device to the task and (3) return on investment for buying, installing, maintaining and fuel to carry it around for the lifetime of the aircraft. It would really be nice to get useful info on some specific systems, from someone as knowledgeable as he. But as it is, buy the book, read the book, understand Bob's underlying philosophies, because they're good. But then realize that if it's not in the book, you're going to need to ask other builders for help, because he's probably not going to take enough interest in your exact product layout to give you good guidance. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD Tim, I'm truly at a loss to bring your assertions into alignment with published, archived and readily researchable fact. Please understand that this ol' horse has not yet been turned out to pasture nor has his interest and attention in things modern been diluted in the slightest. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:09 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Power Stabilizer At 06:12 AM 6/2/2011, you wrote: > > >You're right Bob ... I have no idea if the D700 will reboot on start ... >maybe not, but I am cranking an IO-540. Yes, no doubt I am overcapitalising >and weighing down the aircraft by chasing shadows in some areas. If I'd been >smart I would have first explained that I don't have a vaccum system or a >backup alternator But it's easy to add later. An given that you don't have it now suggests that your design goals based on anticipated use of the airplane do not call for it. > so I will be more comfortable with a separate backup >battery in an emergency (which may not needed either). Okay, how is it that you intend to use this airplane? Do you plan to operate with some frequency in flight environments that could not be navigated with this suite of tools? http://tinyurl.com/4xjhgly In other words, do you anticipate flights that are so hardware critical that you cannot extract yourself comfortably from a case of "dark panel syndrome?" I've flown aircraft from ultra-lights (with nothing) to A-36 (with a panel full of goodies). But in 1000 hours I've spent perhaps 30 minutes total in IMC and that for the purpose of poking through a cloud layer. That 1000 hours includes no small percentage of time over unfriendly terrain and/or night flight. The manner in which I used airplanes had a very low risk of reversion to the tools in my flight bag . . . indeed, I was never presented with the situation. But any of those flights could have been low risk accomplishments with the master switch OFF. If your anticipated used of the airplane demands that things work for the purposed of reducing risk, exactly which items and do you plan backups for those items? Not knowing oil pressure for the first seconds of start up is an exceedingly low risk feature on an airplane engine. The admonition for 'checking oil pressure with a hand on the mixture' may have been a useful admonition way back when. I suppose somebody may have experienced a pump failure at start-up sometime . . . but I don't know of any. I've never observed it in any engine driven machine. Yet it seems that folks are willing to pile extra costs, weight, complexity (read reduced reliability) into their airplane just to be rewarded with seeing those numbers rise as they always have. Having devices on board that routinely reboot during starter inrush brown-out can be accommodated by a start-up procedure that tolerates the effect and without adding weight or complexity to the system. This is a 'connect the dots' exercise that depends on you describing all the dots. We can assist with that but the exercise is placed at risk by not having a list of all the dots . . . or having one or more dots mis- identified. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:05:31 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Repacing coax At 11:11 AM 6/2/2011, you wrote: > > >Hi Bob, > >I've been working on getting my 1983 Long-EZ back to flying >condition. It has RG-58 coax and BNC's with a soldered center >conductor and the screw together compression fitting for the >exterior shielding. There are also splices done with BNC's to >change radios over the years. There have been issues with the >transponder and the com transmitter (copper foil antenna in the >winglet) over the years. Is it worth while from a performance >perspective to swap out the RG-58 and replace it with RG-400 and new >crimp connectors? If this is worth doing, how do I deal with the >coax coming out of the BNC's on the radio trays? Can the RG-400 be >spliced to the RG-59 just beyond the the tray BNC's? > > >Sheldon Olesen > >Sent from my iPad > > >----- >No virus found in this message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:09:09 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: OOPS_Repacing coax Sorry, accidently hit the 'send' button too soon . . . > message posted by: Sheldon Olesen > >Hi Bob, > >I've been working on getting my 1983 Long-EZ back to flying >condition. It has RG-58 coax and BNC's with a soldered center >conductor and the screw together compression fitting for the >exterior shielding. There are also splices done with BNC's to >change radios over the years. There have been issues with the >transponder and the com transmitter (copper foil antenna in the >winglet) over the years. How does the wire look? Still pliable? Are the connectors on tight (i.e. do not rotate if lightly twisted). RG-58 is a legacy materials product with vulnerabilities and performance issues that have improved with RG-400 et. als. But it is not a pariah wire to be purged. >Is it worth while from a performance perspective to swap out the >RG-58 and replace it with RG-400 and new crimp connectors? If the installed wire is in good shape, the runs are usually so short in a light aircraft as to offer little improvement on performance for making a change. It's a matter for your personal sense of craftsmanship. If you can get at the RG-58 runs, the time and cost of replacing them is small in the grand scheme of things . . . but there are no technical imperatives for doing it. >If this is worth doing, how do I deal with the coax coming out of >the BNC's on the radio trays? Those connectors can be opened, de-soldered and refurbished with new wire . . . assuming you have the tools and talents. >Can the RG-400 be spliced to the RG-59 just beyond the the tray BNC's? Yes. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:14:56 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: AEC Modules At 02:36 AM 6/2/2011, you wrote: > >I might have missed the message, but are these now available ? or what is >the current status ? Software is in development. I'm planning to turn the electrical system in my truck to a Z-11 so I can use the vehicle as a test bed. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:30:59 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Brass bus bar At 01:47 AM 6/2/2011, you wrote: > > >Bob, > >Can you tell me how much current the 1/2" wide (.025 thick) brass bus bar >stock that B&C sells can comfortably handle? It would be a short piece, >about 3 inches long if that makes a difference? It will carry a LOT of current but it does have a significant temperature rise if subjected to starter currents. .025 is a bit skinny. I think all the brass (and copper) straps I've seen on airplanes is at least .050 if not thicker. See: http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/Contactor_Interconnect/ Brass has a small fraction the electrical conductivity of copper. Look for a display like this: Emacs! In your hardware store or hobby shop. I think it includes copper sheets in .025 which would be much better and probably adequate. Also consider soldering up a short piece of welding cable with terminals of appropriate spacing. http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf Brass isn't out of the question . . . but it's not the best choice. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:07 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit Now, for the final test.....the joystick button. Plugged it in, pushed it, and voila'!! Works like a champ!! I can now say that everything functions as it should!! I really appreciate your help and pointers, Mike and Vern. Thanks a million!! Now, I can start the final stages of the plane construction. Good work guys. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:57 PM PST US From: "Vern Little" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit I still think that you may have the 1N4148 diode wired in reverse. The 10K=99s should have worked, but the 4.7K=99s may be enough current to forward bias the diode and the base-emitter junction of the 2N3904. The band on the diode should connect to the transistor. V From: Mike Welch Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 11:44 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit Vern & Mike L, Rather than rebuild the whole thing, I went ahead and made the changes you guys suggested. I replaced those two 10K resistors in the alarm circuit with two 4.7K's. These were the resistors that went to each leg of the activation leads. I didn't replace any of the 10Ks in any of the rest of the alarm circuit. Next, I added a 22K resistor, rather than the straight wire that was there, between pins 6&7 on the 555. I didn't add the capacitor that you referred to, Mike, that went from pin 6 to ground , on the 555. I figured if it didn't act right, I'd try it. Besides, I didn't have a value, so I didn't know what size would work the best. The results: On the table, it works perfect, just like before!! Now, for the test that really matters.....the plane. I dropped it in place, hooked up the LEDs, and the +12 & neg leads. Then I ran a jumper wire from the instrument bus to the light blue wire. Works perfect!! So far, so good!! Now, for the hurdle I couldn't seem to get over!! Unhooked the light blue wire, and hooked up the green.....IT WORKS!!! Progress finally!! Now, for the final test.....the joystick button. Plugged it in, pushed it, and voila'!! Works like a champ!! I can now say that everything functions as it should!! I really appreciate your help and pointers, Mike and Vern. Thanks a million!! Now, I can start the final stages of the plane construction. Mike Welch ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:06 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit Hi Vern=2C I think I verified that it was correct=2C when I was replacing those resi sotrs....but I will double-check=2C and get back to you. Thanks=2C Mike W From: sprocket@vx-aviation.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit I still think that you may have the 1N4148 diode wired in reverse. The 10K =92s should have worked=2C but the 4.7K=92s may be enough current to forwar d bias the diode and the base-emitter junction of the 2N3904. The band on the diode should connect to the transistor. V From: Mike Welch Sent: Wednesday=2C June 01=2C 2011 11:44 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit Vern & Mike L=2C Rather than rebuild the whole thing=2C I went ahead and made the changes you guys suggested. I replaced those two 10K resistors in the alarm circuit with two 4.7K's. These were the resistors that went to each leg of the activation leads. I didn't replace any of the 10Ks in any of the rest of the alarm circuit. Next=2C I added a 22K resistor=2C rather than the straight wire that was there=2C between pins 6&7 on the 555. I didn't add the capacitor that you referred to=2C Mike=2C that went from pin 6 to ground =2C on the 5 55. I figured if it didn't act right=2C I'd try it. Besides=2C I didn't have a value=2C so I didn't know what size would work the best. The results: On the table=2C it works perfect=2C just like before!! Now =2C for the test that really matters.....the plane. I dropped it in place=2C hooked up the LEDs=2C and the +12 & neg leads. Then I ran a jumper wire from the instrument bus to the light blue wire. Works perfect!! So far=2C so good!! Now=2C for the hurdle I couldn't seem to get over!! Unhooked the light blue wire=2C and hooked up the green.....IT WORKS!!! Progress finally!! Now=2C for the final test.....the joystick button. Plugged it in=2C push ed it=2C and voila'!! Works like a champ!! I can now say that everything functions as it should!! I really appreciate your help and pointers=2C Mike and Vern. Thanks a million!! Now=2C I can start the final stages of the plane construction. Mike Welch href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c No virus found in this message. 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