Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:09 AM - Re: Power Stabilizer (Stuart Hutchison)
2. 07:33 AM - Re: Power Stabilizer (Jared Yates)
3. 08:57 AM - Re: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit (Mike Welch)
4. 09:48 AM - Re: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit (Mike Welch)
5. 03:38 PM - Re: Power Stabilizer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 03:38 PM - Re: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 03:47 PM - Re: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Power Stabilizer |
G'day Bob,
Yep, I plan to fly IFR often and I 'feel better' about backup, especially
with my son sitting beside me - he likes lights and is afraid of the dark.
In about 3500 hours, I've flown about 500 at night and about 500 in IMC.
I've seen everything from catastrophic turbine failures to electrical fires
and I don't like fumbling for my tool kit in the dark or wroking the family
brain cell to hard. Yes, I have a handheld GPS, an LED torch and a handheld
radio. I don't plan to use any of them in an emergency, cos I like using my
hands to fly the aeroplane. My IBBS will power COM 2 and LED utility lights
and the EFIS screens can run for 60 minutes each off their own backup
batteries, or the IBBS if necessary. That should see me on the ground
somewhere with runway lights .... in this particular vast country, where
there is a LOT of uninhabited red dirt.
Kind regards, Stu
F1 Rocket VH-FLY <http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY>
http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY <about:www.teamrocketaircraft.com>
www.teamrocketaircraft.com
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 3:54 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Power Stabilizer
At 06:12 AM 6/2/2011, you wrote:
<stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au>
You're right Bob ... I have no idea if the D700 will reboot on start ...
maybe not, but I am cranking an IO-540. Yes, no doubt I am overcapitalising
and weighing down the aircraft by chasing shadows in some areas. If I'd been
smart I would have first explained that I don't have a vaccum system or a
backup alternator
But it's easy to add later. An given that you don't
have it now suggests that your design goals based
on anticipated use of the airplane do not call
for it.
so I will be more comfortable with a separate backup
battery in an emergency (which may not needed either).
Okay, how is it that you intend to use this airplane?
Do you plan to operate with some frequency in flight
environments that could not be navigated with this
suite of tools?
http://tinyurl.com/4xjhgly
In other words, do you anticipate flights that
are so hardware critical that you cannot extract
yourself comfortably from a case of "dark panel
syndrome?"
I've flown aircraft from ultra-lights (with
nothing) to A-36 (with a panel full of goodies).
But in 1000 hours I've spent perhaps 30 minutes
total in IMC and that for the purpose of
poking through a cloud layer. That 1000 hours
includes no small percentage of time over
unfriendly terrain and/or night flight.
The manner in which I used airplanes had
a very low risk of reversion to the tools
in my flight bag . . . indeed, I was never
presented with the situation. But any of
those flights could have been low risk
accomplishments with the master switch OFF.
If your anticipated used of the airplane
demands that things work for the purposed
of reducing risk, exactly which items and
do you plan backups for those items?
Not knowing oil pressure for the first seconds
of start up is an exceedingly low risk
feature on an airplane engine. The admonition
for 'checking oil pressure with a hand on the
mixture' may have been a useful admonition way
back when. I suppose somebody may have
experienced a pump failure at start-up sometime
. . . but I don't know of any. I've never
observed it in any engine driven machine.
Yet it seems that folks are willing to pile
extra costs, weight, complexity (read reduced
reliability) into their airplane just to
be rewarded with seeing those numbers
rise as they always have.
Having devices on board that routinely reboot
during starter inrush brown-out can be
accommodated by a start-up procedure that
tolerates the effect and without adding weight
or complexity to the system.
This is a 'connect the dots' exercise that
depends on you describing all the dots. We
can assist with that but the exercise is
placed at risk by not having a list of all
the dots . . . or having one or more dots mis-
identified.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Power Stabilizer |
If your alternator quits, how long will your primary battery last? If you
have a warning light that indicates that your alternator has failed, you can
start your response immediately and make the most of that time.
On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Stuart Hutchison <
stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au> wrote:
> G'day Bob,
>
> Yep, I plan to fly IFR often and I 'feel better' about backup, especially
> with my son sitting beside me - he likes lights and is afraid of the dark.
> In about 3500 hours, I've flown about 500 at night and about 500 in IMC.
> I've seen everything from catastrophic turbine failures to electrical fires
> and I don't like fumbling for my tool kit in the dark or wroking the family
> brain cell to hard. Yes, I have a handheld GPS, an LED torch and a handheld
> radio. I don't plan to use any of them in an emergency, cos I like using my
> hands to fly the aeroplane. My IBBS will power COM 2 and LED utility lights
> and the EFIS screens can run for 60 minutes each off their own backup
> batteries, or the IBBS if necessary. That should see me on the ground
> somewhere with runway lights .... in this particular vast country, where
> there is a LOT of uninhabited red dirt.
>
>
> Kind regards, Stu
>
>
> F1 Rocket VH-FLY http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY
> www.teamrocketaircraft.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert L.
> Nuckolls, III
> *Sent:* Friday, June 03, 2011 3:54 AM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: Power Stabilizer
>
> At 06:12 AM 6/2/2011, you wrote:
>
> stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au>
>
> You're right Bob ... I have no idea if the D700 will reboot on start ...
> maybe not, but I am cranking an IO-540. Yes, no doubt I am
> overcapitalising
> and weighing down the aircraft by chasing shadows in some areas. If I'd
> been
> smart I would have first explained that I don't have a vaccum system or a
> backup alternator
>
>
> But it's easy to add later. An given that you don't
> have it now suggests that your design goals based
> on anticipated use of the airplane do not call
> for it.
>
> so I will be more comfortable with a separate backup
> battery in an emergency (which may not needed either).
>
>
> Okay, how is it that you intend to use this airplane?
> Do you plan to operate with some frequency in flight
> environments that could not be navigated with this
> suite of tools?
>
> *http://tinyurl.com/4xjhgly*
>
> In other words, do you anticipate flights that
> are so hardware critical that you cannot extract
> yourself comfortably from a case of "dark panel
> syndrome?"
>
> I've flown aircraft from ultra-lights (with
> nothing) to A-36 (with a panel full of goodies).
> But in 1000 hours I've spent perhaps 30 minutes
> total in IMC and that for the purpose of
> poking through a cloud layer. That 1000 hours
> includes no small percentage of time over
> unfriendly terrain and/or night flight.
>
> The manner in which I used airplanes had
> a very low risk of reversion to the tools
> in my flight bag . . . indeed, I was never
> presented with the situation. But any of
> those flights could have been low risk
> accomplishments with the master switch OFF.
>
> If your anticipated used of the airplane
> demands that things work for the purposed
> of reducing risk, exactly which items and
> do you plan backups for those items?
>
> Not knowing oil pressure for the first seconds
> of start up is an exceedingly low risk
> feature on an airplane engine. The admonition
> for 'checking oil pressure with a hand on the
> mixture' may have been a useful admonition way
> back when. I suppose somebody may have
> experienced a pump failure at start-up sometime
> . . . but I don't know of any. I've never
> observed it in any engine driven machine.
>
> Yet it seems that folks are willing to pile
> extra costs, weight, complexity (read reduced
> reliability) into their airplane just to
> be rewarded with seeing those numbers
> rise as they always have.
>
> Having devices on board that routinely reboot
> during starter inrush brown-out can be
> accommodated by a start-up procedure that
> tolerates the effect and without adding weight
> or complexity to the system.
>
> This is a 'connect the dots' exercise that
> depends on you describing all the dots. We
> can assist with that but the exercise is
> placed at risk by not having a list of all
> the dots . . . or having one or more dots mis-
> identified.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit |
Vern=2C
I just check for the orientation of the 1N4148. Yes=2C it is correct. T
he 'band' end
of the diode is sharing the 2N3904 base node (the center leg of the 3904).
I turned
the ignition on and did another joystick button check....still working grea
t. By all
accounts=2C and from what I can tell=2C everything appears to be operating
very well now.
I have a question for Bob Nuchols=2C
Bob=2C Does it hurt the circuitry by changing just those two resistors from
10K to 4.7K?
These were the ones that went to the Dynon alarm signal wire=2C and the tes
t PTT
switch.
Maybe I exceeded the original design abilities of the 10K's (current requ
irements)
by adding in that 555/4017 cascading LED circuit. All I know at this point
is it sure
likes the 4.7K's!
Will there be any deleterious consequences by not changing any of the oth
er
resistors in the Dynon Alarm circuit? Or=2C can I call it good?
Thanks for all your help=2C guys.
Mike Welch
From: sprocket@vx-aviation.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit
I still think that you may have the 1N4148 diode wired in reverse. The 10K
=92s should have worked=2C but the 4.7K=92s may be enough current to forwar
d bias the diode and the base-emitter junction of the 2N3904. The band on
the diode should connect to the transistor.
V
Message 4
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| Subject: | Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit |
Bob N=2C
My apologies for the mispelling of your name. Nuckolls=2C not Nuchols.
Mike
Message 5
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| Subject: | Power Stabilizer |
At 10:05 AM 6/3/2011, you wrote:
>G'day Bob,
>
>Yep, I plan to fly IFR often and I 'feel better' about backup,
>especially with my son sitting beside me - he likes lights and is
>afraid of the dark. In about 3500 hours, I've flown about 500 at
>night and about 500 in IMC. I've seen everything from catastrophic
>turbine failures to electrical fires and I don't like fumbling for
>my tool kit in the dark or wroking the family brain cell to hard.
>Yes, I have a handheld GPS, an LED torch and a handheld radio. I
>don't plan to use any of them in an emergency, cos I like using my
>hands to fly the aeroplane. My IBBS will power COM 2 and LED
>utility lights and the EFIS screens can run for 60 minutes each off
>their own backup batteries, or the IBBS if necessary. That should
>see me on the ground somewhere with runway lights .... in this
>particular vast country, where there is a LOT of uninhabited red dirt.
Understand. Why aren't you going with Z-13/8?
That's a VERY bulletproof system and much less
weight penalty, higher energy budgets
and unlimited endurance.
Around here, I prefer to fly after dark. The air
gets smoother, cooler and you can see lightning
strikes from a whole lot further away . . .
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit |
At 12:44 PM 6/3/2011, you wrote:
>Bob N,
>
> My apologies for the mispelling of your name. Nuckolls, not Nuchols.
No problem, I've answered to all the above for decades.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Dynon alarm--LED part of the circuit |
>
> I have a question for Bob Nuchols,
>
>Bob, Does it hurt the circuitry by changing just those two resistors
>from 10K to 4.7K?
>These were the ones that went to the Dynon alarm signal wire, and the test PTT
>switch.
> Maybe I exceeded the original design abilities of the 10K's
> (current requirements)
>by adding in that 555/4017 cascading LED circuit. All I know at
>this point is it sure
>likes the 4.7K's!
No, not at all. Those values were a WAG based on
best judgement at the time for minimizing loads
on the circuit being monitored . . . but always
subject to tweaking based on observed behaviors.
>
> Will there be any deleterious consequences by not changing any of
> the other
>resistors in the Dynon Alarm circuit? Or, can I call it good?
Probably not . . .within limits. For example, if
you had to reduce a 1000 ohm resistor down to 100
ohms to get something to work, the 10:1 'miss' on
the WAG may point to fundamental mis-understandings of
how things are working . . . or not working.
There's some level of risk for doing design,
development and production by remote control.
Not having it all spread out on the bench where
you can poke, measure, observe and then validate
or modify a circuit has some risks associated
with it. Risks that you've suffered.
Fortunately, there's little or no risk for
what you're doing beyond failure to function. The
power levels your dealing with are not going
to set things on fire.
>Thanks for all your help, guys.
I was interesting in watching the exercise
play out . . . and it MIGHT not be over yet.
But much has been discovered so far. Y'all done
good.
Bob . . .
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