Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:43 AM - Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds (Eric M. Jones)
2. 06:39 AM - Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds (n395v)
3. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds (David Leikam)
4. 07:23 AM - Re: Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds (Dan Billingsley)
5. 07:27 AM - Re: Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
7. 07:55 AM - Re: Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 10:27 AM - Re: Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds (Lynn Cole)
9. 01:12 PM - Re: Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds (Charlie England)
10. 01:34 PM - Re: Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds (rayj)
11. 03:31 PM - Re: Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds (Dan Billingsley)
12. 05:08 PM - Antenna static discharge protection (Daniel Hooper)
13. 05:41 PM - Re: Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds (Charlie England)
14. 06:24 PM - Re: Antenna static discharge protection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 08:46 PM - Re: Antenna static discharge protection (Daniel Hooper)
16. 11:03 PM - Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
17. 11:07 PM - Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds |
Clearly you distorted what President Obama said.
He was referring to tax breaks for corporate jets. To distort this into a general
bomb throwing at general aviation is silly, or worse--plain dishonest.
Every child growing up has to decide: Whether it is better to be his brothers'
keeper or not. Or shall we just watch out for our own selfish interests and to
hell with everyone who can't take care of themselves. Many have obviously chosen
the latter.
Right now 2% of the population owns 50% of EVERYTHING and 50% of the population
(Half the population!) owns just 2% of everything. The conservatives' statement
that "We don't have a taxation problem, we have a spending problem: is just
disingenuous.
See attached. And please pass it on to your friends and representatives. When the
Federal Reserve releases the figures for 2010, There will be a revolution.
And sorry for the politics.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344562#344562
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/us_wealth_distribution_update_2007_590.pdf
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds |
The first post probably doesn't belong on this forum.
The second , and quite sick post " clearly doesn't belong here.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--------
Milt
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344566#344566
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds |
You could give half of all you own this year to the government to distribute for
you, that should help. Because you own stuff, doesn't mean you took it from
someone else.
I know, I'm done now.
Do not archive
David Leikam
On Jul 1, 2011, at 7:39 AM, Eric M. Jones wrote:
>
> Clearly you distorted what President Obama said.
>
> He was referring to tax breaks for corporate jets. To distort this into a general
bomb throwing at general aviation is silly, or worse--plain dishonest.
>
> Every child growing up has to decide: Whether it is better to be his brothers'
keeper or not. Or shall we just watch out for our own selfish interests and
to hell with everyone who can't take care of themselves. Many have obviously chosen
the latter.
>
> Right now 2% of the population owns 50% of EVERYTHING and 50% of the population
(Half the population!) owns just 2% of everything. The conservatives' statement
that "We don't have a taxation problem, we have a spending problem: is just
disingenuous.
>
> See attached. And please pass it on to your friends and representatives. When
the Federal Reserve releases the figures for 2010, There will be a revolution.
>
> And sorry for the politics.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones@charter.net
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344562#344562
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/us_wealth_distribution_update_2007_590.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds |
Sorry Gang...Probably a bad choice of venue to post to. Let's stop the thread here.
Dan B
--- On Fri, 7/1/11, David Leikam <daveleikam@wi.rr.com> wrote:
> From: David Leikam <daveleikam@wi.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 7:44 AM
> --> AeroElectric-List message
> posted by: David Leikam <daveleikam@wi.rr.com>
>
> You could give half of all you own this year to the
> government to distribute for you, that should
> help.Because you own stuff, doesn't mean
> you took it from someone else.
> I know, I'm done now.
>
>
> Do not archive
>
> David Leikam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 1, 2011, at 7:39 AM, Eric M. Jones wrote:
>
> Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
> >
> > Clearly you distorted what President Obama said.
> >
> > He was referring to tax breaks for corporate jets. To
> distort this into a general bomb throwing at general
> aviation is silly, or worse--plain dishonest.
> >
> > Every child growing up has to decide: Whether it is
> better to be his brothers' keeper or not. Or shall we just
> watch out for our own selfish interests and to hell with
> everyone who can't take care of themselves. Many have
> obviously chosen the latter.
> >
> > Right now 2% of the population owns 50% of EVERYTHING
> and 50% of the population (Half the population!) owns just
> 2% of everything. The conservatives' statement that "We
> don't have a taxation problem, we have a spending problem:
> is just disingenuous.
> >
> > See attached. And please pass it on to your friends
> and representatives. When the Federal Reserve releases the
> figures for 2010, There will be a revolution.
> >
> > And sorry for the politics.
> >
> > --------
> > Eric M. Jones
> > www.PerihelionDesign.com
> > 113 Brentwood Drive
> > Southbridge, MA 01550
> > (508) 764-2072
> > emjones@charter.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344562#344562
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Attachments:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/us_wealth_distribution_update_2007_590.pdf
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds |
At 07:39 AM 7/1/2011, you wrote:
>
>Clearly you distorted what President Obama said.
. . . which misses the fundamental point
entirely. It's not about people having more or
less "stuff" being treated differently from
folks who have a different amounts of "stuff."
It's about the abuse of law.
The law is simply the collective manifestation
of our individual right to self defense.
See Bastiat, "The Law":
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Simple-Ideas/TRL/The_Law.pdf
In a civilized society the law is not a tool of
plunder, oppression or class warfare.
As soon as a politician utters a word
personal to any citizen, they have violated
the founding fathers spirit and intent for
crafting a civilized society.
This isn't a conservative, liberal, republican,
or democratic thing. All of those entities
are pitting one group against another
with arguments that go into the most
trivial of details while ignoring
the "elephant in the room." Liberty is a
fundamental right to be left alone.
The founding fathers were not interested
in groups but in individuals. Not for their
beliefs but for their behaviors. The honorable
citizen protects the liberty of himself and
his neighbors. The citizen capable of heroism
will do so at personal risk.
The premise of the AEA response was dead on.
The idea that anyone should single out a
group of individuals for special attention
under the law completely ignores the far
reaching ramifications for that attack upon
liberty of millions. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Simple-Ideas/TRL/I_Pencil.pdf
An airplane, yacht, luxury home in the mountains,
or the lowly pencil are the sum totals of
work-product for millions of people. The idea that
corporate jets are separate and isolated
from the constellation of self-interested
providers of value all over the planet is
misguided. It's certainly not in keeping
with First Principals upon which this
country was founded.
>And sorry for the politics.
Class warfare, plunder and oppression ARE
indeed political. The fundamentals for creation
and maintenance of a civilized society are
not. Like rivets, aluminum, and oil for
the Tefzel insulation, they are ingredients
that go into a recipe for success. The fact
liberty and honorable endeavors are behaviors
as opposed to hard goods is what makes them
unique to humans.
If you'd like to continue this discussion,
I can crank up another list-server engine
on matronics.com for that purpose. I have
a couple of them that are not in service
at the present time.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds |
And sorry for the politics.
--------
Eric M. Jones
Take your "Twisted" Political views to a political website. This is NOT the
place!!
Roger
Do not archive
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds |
At 09:39 AM 7/1/2011, you wrote:
><mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
>
>
>And sorry for the politics.
>
>--------
>Eric M. Jones
>
>Take your "Twisted" Political views to a political website. This is NOT the
>place!!
Gently, gently my friend. It is
difficult to champion honorable
behaviors with excited pejoratives.
Please let me deal with it.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds |
I simply deleted the entire thread as being inappropriate to the
discussion of aircraft electrics.
Do not archive
Lynn Cole
LynnCole@foxvalley.net
On Jul 1, 2011, at 9:52 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 09:39 AM 7/1/2011, you wrote:
>> <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
>>
>>
>> And sorry for the politics.
>>
>> --------
>> Eric M. Jones
>>
>> Take your "Twisted" Political views to a political website. This
>> is NOT the
>> place!!
>
> Gently, gently my friend. It is
> difficult to champion honorable
> behaviors with excited pejoratives.
> Please let me deal with it.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds |
Bob,
I'm afraid that you've missed the point, as well. It isn't about jet
owners, or oil companies; it's about fairness in application of the law.
When an exec (employee, not owner) can have a company helicopter pick
him up for work and the company is allowed a tax deduction for that, and
at the same time I'm allowed no tax deduction as an employee for my
transportation to work, the law isn't applied equitably.
If the Pres had listed every offending individual, he'd never finish. He
was obviously just offering examples, as I just did.
Everybody hates paying taxes, but it astounds me when I hear hard
working people who have no way out of paying more than their fair share,
defending those who lobby (euphemism for *bribe*) their way into paying
little or none of their share. What Eric's post doesn't mention is that
the 50% of us who own 2% of everything, pay more than 50% of the taxes
to support everything. Warren Buffet has said that his housekeeper pays
taxes at a higher tax rate than Buffet. There's something very wrong
with that.
Dan,
Throwing out your political opinion & then saying 'oops, sorry, nothing
more should be said', just doesn't cut it. Kinda like asking you, in
public, how long it's been since you quit beating your wife.
It distresses me greatly when I see posts that brazenly say, in effect,
'political posts I agree with "probably" have no place here, but
anything I disagree with is "sick, and definitely has no place here." '
It really makes me wonder what country this is, where only opinions we
agree with are allowed, and anyone who disagrees is a traitor.
Charlie
On 07/01/2011 09:24 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 07:39 AM 7/1/2011, you wrote:
>> <emjones@charter.net>
>>
>> Clearly you distorted what President Obama said.
>
> . . . which misses the fundamental point
> entirely. It's not about people having more or
> less "stuff" being treated differently from
> folks who have a different amounts of "stuff."
> It's about the abuse of law.
>
> The law is simply the collective manifestation
> of our individual right to self defense.
> See Bastiat, "The Law":
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Simple-Ideas/TRL/The_Law.pdf
>
> In a civilized society the law is not a tool of
> plunder, oppression or class warfare.
> As soon as a politician utters a word
> personal to any citizen, they have violated
> the founding fathers spirit and intent for
> crafting a civilized society.
>
> This isn't a conservative, liberal, republican,
> or democratic thing. All of those entities
> are pitting one group against another
> with arguments that go into the most
> trivial of details while ignoring
> the "elephant in the room." Liberty is a
> fundamental right to be left alone.
>
> The founding fathers were not interested
> in groups but in individuals. Not for their
> beliefs but for their behaviors. The honorable
> citizen protects the liberty of himself and
> his neighbors. The citizen capable of heroism
> will do so at personal risk.
>
> The premise of the AEA response was dead on.
> The idea that anyone should single out a
> group of individuals for special attention
> under the law completely ignores the far
> reaching ramifications for that attack upon
> liberty of millions. See:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Simple-Ideas/TRL/I_Pencil.pdf
>
> An airplane, yacht, luxury home in the mountains,
> or the lowly pencil are the sum totals of
> work-product for millions of people. The idea that
> corporate jets are separate and isolated
> from the constellation of self-interested
> providers of value all over the planet is
> misguided. It's certainly not in keeping
> with First Principals upon which this
> country was founded.
>
>> And sorry for the politics.
>
> Class warfare, plunder and oppression ARE
> indeed political. The fundamentals for creation
> and maintenance of a civilized society are
> not. Like rivets, aluminum, and oil for
> the Tefzel insulation, they are ingredients
> that go into a recipe for success. The fact
> liberty and honorable endeavors are behaviors
> as opposed to hard goods is what makes them
> unique to humans.
>
> If you'd like to continue this discussion,
> I can crank up another list-server engine
> on matronics.com for that purpose. I have
> a couple of them that are not in service
> at the present time.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds |
Well spoken, Charlie.
I fear for the future of this list if this discussion continues here.
Those who are interested, please accept Bob's offer to create a new list
for discussions on this topic and lets get back to a topic we can agree
on: Free roaming electrons are evil, they need to be herded!
do not archive
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 07/01/2011 03:08 PM, Charlie England wrote:
> <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
> Bob,
>
> I'm afraid that you've missed the point, as well. It isn't about jet
> owners, or oil companies; it's about fairness in application of the law.
> When an exec (employee, not owner) can have a company helicopter pick
> him up for work and the company is allowed a tax deduction for that, and
> at the same time I'm allowed no tax deduction as an employee for my
> transportation to work, the law isn't applied equitably.
>
> If the Pres had listed every offending individual, he'd never finish. He
> was obviously just offering examples, as I just did.
>
> Everybody hates paying taxes, but it astounds me when I hear hard
> working people who have no way out of paying more than their fair share,
> defending those who lobby (euphemism for *bribe*) their way into paying
> little or none of their share. What Eric's post doesn't mention is that
> the 50% of us who own 2% of everything, pay more than 50% of the taxes
> to support everything. Warren Buffet has said that his housekeeper pays
> taxes at a higher tax rate than Buffet. There's something very wrong
> with that.
>
> Dan,
>
> Throwing out your political opinion & then saying 'oops, sorry, nothing
> more should be said', just doesn't cut it. Kinda like asking you, in
> public, how long it's been since you quit beating your wife.
>
> It distresses me greatly when I see posts that brazenly say, in effect,
> 'political posts I agree with "probably" have no place here, but
> anything I disagree with is "sick, and definitely has no place here." '
> It really makes me wonder what country this is, where only opinions we
> agree with are allowed, and anyone who disagrees is a traitor.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> On 07/01/2011 09:24 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>>
>> At 07:39 AM 7/1/2011, you wrote:
>>> <emjones@charter.net>
>>>
>>> Clearly you distorted what President Obama said.
>>
>> . . . which misses the fundamental point
>> entirely. It's not about people having more or
>> less "stuff" being treated differently from
>> folks who have a different amounts of "stuff."
>> It's about the abuse of law.
>>
>> The law is simply the collective manifestation
>> of our individual right to self defense.
>> See Bastiat, "The Law":
>>
>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Simple-Ideas/TRL/The_Law.pdf
>>
>> In a civilized society the law is not a tool of
>> plunder, oppression or class warfare.
>> As soon as a politician utters a word
>> personal to any citizen, they have violated
>> the founding fathers spirit and intent for
>> crafting a civilized society.
>>
>> This isn't a conservative, liberal, republican,
>> or democratic thing. All of those entities
>> are pitting one group against another
>> with arguments that go into the most
>> trivial of details while ignoring
>> the "elephant in the room." Liberty is a
>> fundamental right to be left alone.
>>
>> The founding fathers were not interested
>> in groups but in individuals. Not for their
>> beliefs but for their behaviors. The honorable
>> citizen protects the liberty of himself and
>> his neighbors. The citizen capable of heroism
>> will do so at personal risk.
>>
>> The premise of the AEA response was dead on.
>> The idea that anyone should single out a
>> group of individuals for special attention
>> under the law completely ignores the far
>> reaching ramifications for that attack upon
>> liberty of millions. See:
>>
>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Simple-Ideas/TRL/I_Pencil.pdf
>>
>> An airplane, yacht, luxury home in the mountains,
>> or the lowly pencil are the sum totals of
>> work-product for millions of people. The idea that
>> corporate jets are separate and isolated
>> from the constellation of self-interested
>> providers of value all over the planet is
>> misguided. It's certainly not in keeping
>> with First Principals upon which this
>> country was founded.
>>
>>> And sorry for the politics.
>>
>> Class warfare, plunder and oppression ARE
>> indeed political. The fundamentals for creation
>> and maintenance of a civilized society are
>> not. Like rivets, aluminum, and oil for
>> the Tefzel insulation, they are ingredients
>> that go into a recipe for success. The fact
>> liberty and honorable endeavors are behaviors
>> as opposed to hard goods is what makes them
>> unique to humans.
>>
>> If you'd like to continue this discussion,
>> I can crank up another list-server engine
>> on matronics.com for that purpose. I have
>> a couple of them that are not in service
>> at the present time.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds |
Sure Charlie, I'll bite...
Dan,
>
> Throwing out your political opinion & then saying
> 'oops, sorry, nothing more should be said', just doesn't cut
> it. Kinda like asking you, in public, how long it's been
> since you quit beating your wife.
Political views never cease to amaze me...we all have one and I'm sure they have
been developed by each of us via nurture as well as nature. We develop them
through how we view the world, first through our parents eyes and then refined
by our own life experiences. I'm sure most of us (say aviators if you want a
defined parameter) are quite sincere in wanting what is best for our families
(I haven't beat my wife for a couple days now), our cities and our nation. However,
agreement in achieving the same goal has been polarized to the extreme ON
BOTH SIDES!
>
> It distresses me greatly when I see posts that brazenly
> say, in effect, 'political posts I agree with "probably"
> have no place here, but anything I disagree with is "sick,
> and definitely has no place here." ' It really makes me
> wonder what country this is, where only opinions we agree
> with are allowed, and anyone who disagrees is a traitor.
If the shoe fits Charlie, but I didn't say it. Going back to the issue at hand...The
President speaks out of both sides of his mouth (the Indians would say he
speaks with forked tongue) He increases this nations debt higher than it has
ever been, continues to do so, and expects everyone to roll over and let his
administration tax it back into the black. I don't care if we are talking about
someone selling pencils on the corner or corporate jets on the tarmac, when
a certain person or group is singeled out to pay a bigger slice of the pie IT
IS WRONG. We might as well just start calling Obama Robin Hood and replace his
teleprompter with a bow.
I know, I know...you will say that Bush spent the hell out of the the budget as
well and you are right, however, he did it for different reasons than the current
administration. Were they valid reasons? I would like to think so...for things
like national security and fighting the war on terror. He did it the American
way after 9-11 going over and taking it out of their hide. Was it justified?
Did he do it right? Lots of opinions on that one and I believe too many
politics for sure. But lets take a look at Obama now, He has continued the war
as it probably needed to be, but what right does he have taking our tax dollars
and bailing (buying) out corporate America? Pushing Obama Care through when
IT WAS NOT the will of the people. If that wasn't a dictorial move then I will
eat my hat. So now we are back to Robin Hood...smells like a whole lot of Socialism
to this guy. Just remember if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck,
and smells like a duck...
Bob, I think we need that other site now ;>\
Dan B
> Charlie
> Bob,
>
> I'm afraid that you've missed the point, as well. It isn't
> about jet owners, or oil companies; it's about fairness in
> application of the law. When an exec (employee, not owner)
> can have a company helicopter pick him up for work and the
> company is allowed a tax deduction for that, and at the same
> time I'm allowed no tax deduction as an employee for my
> transportation to work, the law isn't applied equitably.
>
> If the Pres had listed every offending individual, he'd
> never finish. He was obviously just offering examples, as I
> just did.
>
> Everybody hates paying taxes, but it astounds me when I
> hear hard working people who have no way out of paying more
> than their fair share, defending those who lobby (euphemism
> for *bribe*) their way into paying little or none of their
> share. What Eric's post doesn't mention is that the 50% of
> us who own 2% of everything, pay more than 50% of the taxes
> to support everything. Warren Buffet has said that his
> housekeeper pays taxes at a higher tax rate than Buffet.
> There's something very wrong with that.
>
> On 07/01/2011 09:24 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> >
> > At 07:39 AM 7/1/2011, you wrote:
> M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
> >>
> >> Clearly you distorted what President Obama said.
> >
> >. . . which misses the fundamental
> point
> >entirely. It's not about people
> having more or
> >less "stuff" being treated
> differently from
> >folks who have a different amounts of
> "stuff."
> >It's about the abuse of law.
> >
> >The law is simply the collective
> manifestation
> >of our individual right to self
> defense.
> >See Bastiat, "The Law":
> >
> >http://www.aeroelectric.com/Simple-Ideas/TRL/The_Law.pdf
> >
> >In a civilized society the law is not
> a tool of
> >plunder, oppression or class
> warfare.
> >As soon as a politician utters a
> word
> >personal to any citizen, they have
> violated
> >the founding fathers spirit and
> intent for
> >crafting a civilized society.
> >
> >This isn't a conservative, liberal,
> republican,
> >or democratic thing. All of those
> entities
> >are pitting one group against
> another
> >with arguments that go into the most
> >trivial of details while ignoring
> >the "elephant in the room." Liberty
> is a
> >fundamental right to be left alone.
> >
> >The founding fathers were not
> interested
> >in groups but in individuals. Not for
> their
> >beliefs but for their behaviors. The
> honorable
> >citizen protects the liberty of
> himself and
> >his neighbors. The citizen capable of
> heroism
> >will do so at personal risk.
> >
> >The premise of the AEA response was
> dead on.
> >The idea that anyone should single
> out a
> >group of individuals for special
> attention
> >under the law completely ignores the
> far
> >reaching ramifications for that
> attack upon
> >liberty of millions. See:
> >
> > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Simple-Ideas/TRL/I_Pencil.pdf
> >
> >An airplane, yacht, luxury home in
> the mountains,
> >or the lowly pencil are the sum
> totals of
> >work-product for millions of people.
> The idea that
> >corporate jets are separate and
> isolated
> >from the constellation of
> self-interested
> >providers of value all over the
> planet is
> >misguided. It's certainly not in
> keeping
> >with First Principals upon which
> this
> >country was founded.
> >
> >> And sorry for the politics.
> >
> >Class warfare, plunder and oppression
> ARE
> >indeed political. The fundamentals
> for creation
> >and maintenance of a civilized
> society are
> >not. Like rivets, aluminum, and oil
> for
> >the Tefzel insulation, they are
> ingredients
> >that go into a recipe for success.
> The fact
> >liberty and honorable endeavors are
> behaviors
> >as opposed to hard goods is what
> makes them
> >unique to humans.
> >
> >If you'd like to continue this
> discussion,
> >I can crank up another list-server
> engine
> >on matronics.com for that purpose. I
> have
> >a couple of them that are not in
> service
> >at the present time.
> >
> >Bob . . .
> >
> >
> >Bob . . .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Antenna static discharge protection |
I'm curious if anyone has experience with protecting RF circuits from
static buildup on exposed antennas during flight.
What is required? Assuming the circuit can only withstand small
voltages (10-20V), is a 100V ceramic blocking capacitor with a 1Meg
drain resistor sufficient? Do you need some sort of diode or gas
discharge device?
Has anyone done or seen research on how quickly voltages can rise (or
fall) on an antenna element in flight?
I'm looking at ham radio-type stuff here, so don't assume a nice,
robust nav/com radio :)
Thanks,
Daniel
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: a bit O/T ...AEA Responds |
Hi Dan,
First, my apologies; I know you didn't make the 'sick' comment, & should
have been more careful in the structure of my previous post. I truly
didn't intend to tie you to that comment.
Second, please don't confuse an opinion about a single issue with
unquestioning support for for all policies. :-) Email really is a
difficult medium for discussing non-technical subjects; the feedback
loop time constant is too long most of the time & it's way too easy to
set up destructive oscillations in the 'circuit'. (Trying to give this
at least some aeroelectric reference....)
Your last paragraph contains enough subject matter for productive
conversation over at least a 5 course meal. Perhaps we can get together
some time & pursue it, either in person or on Bob's potential new
politics list.
Charlie
On 07/01/2011 05:25 PM, Dan Billingsley wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dan Billingsley<dan@azshowersolutions.com>
>
>
> Sure Charlie, I'll bite...
>
> Dan,
>> Throwing out your political opinion& then saying
>> 'oops, sorry, nothing more should be said', just doesn't cut
>> it. Kinda like asking you, in public, how long it's been
>> since you quit beating your wife.
> Political views never cease to amaze me...we all have one and I'm sure they have
been developed by each of us via nurture as well as nature. We develop them
through how we view the world, first through our parents eyes and then refined
by our own life experiences. I'm sure most of us (say aviators if you want
a defined parameter) are quite sincere in wanting what is best for our families
(I haven't beat my wife for a couple days now), our cities and our nation. However,
agreement in achieving the same goal has been polarized to the extreme
ON BOTH SIDES!
>
>> It distresses me greatly when I see posts that brazenly
>> say, in effect, 'political posts I agree with "probably"
>> have no place here, but anything I disagree with is "sick,
>> and definitely has no place here." ' It really makes me
>> wonder what country this is, where only opinions we agree
>> with are allowed, and anyone who disagrees is a traitor.
> If the shoe fits Charlie, but I didn't say it. Going back to the issue at hand...The
President speaks out of both sides of his mouth (the Indians would say
he speaks with forked tongue) He increases this nations debt higher than it has
ever been, continues to do so, and expects everyone to roll over and let his
administration tax it back into the black. I don't care if we are talking about
someone selling pencils on the corner or corporate jets on the tarmac, when
a certain person or group is singeled out to pay a bigger slice of the pie IT
IS WRONG. We might as well just start calling Obama Robin Hood and replace his
teleprompter with a bow.
>
> I know, I know...you will say that Bush spent the hell out of the the budget
as well and you are right, however, he did it for different reasons than the current
administration. Were they valid reasons? I would like to think so...for
things like national security and fighting the war on terror. He did it the
American way after 9-11 going over and taking it out of their hide. Was it justified?
Did he do it right? Lots of opinions on that one and I believe too many
politics for sure. But lets take a look at Obama now, He has continued the war
as it probably needed to be, but what right does he have taking our tax dollars
and bailing (buying) out corporate America? Pushing Obama Care through when
IT WAS NOT the will of the people. If that wasn't a dictorial move then I will
eat my hat. So now we are back to Robin Hood...smells like a whole lot of
Socialism to this guy. Just remember if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck,
and smells like a duck...
>
> Bob, I think we need that other site now ;>\
> Dan B
>> Charlie
>> Bob,
>>
>> I'm afraid that you've missed the point, as well. It isn't
>> about jet owners, or oil companies; it's about fairness in
>> application of the law. When an exec (employee, not owner)
>> can have a company helicopter pick him up for work and the
>> company is allowed a tax deduction for that, and at the same
>> time I'm allowed no tax deduction as an employee for my
>> transportation to work, the law isn't applied equitably.
>>
>> If the Pres had listed every offending individual, he'd
>> never finish. He was obviously just offering examples, as I
>> just did.
>>
>> Everybody hates paying taxes, but it astounds me when I
>> hear hard working people who have no way out of paying more
>> than their fair share, defending those who lobby (euphemism
>> for *bribe*) their way into paying little or none of their
>> share. What Eric's post doesn't mention is that the 50% of
>> us who own 2% of everything, pay more than 50% of the taxes
>> to support everything. Warren Buffet has said that his
>> housekeeper pays taxes at a higher tax rate than Buffet.
>> There's something very wrong with that.
>> On 07/01/2011 09:24 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L.
>> Nuckolls, III"<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>>> At 07:39 AM 7/1/2011, you wrote:
>>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric
>> M. Jones"<emjones@charter.net>
>>>> Clearly you distorted what President Obama said.
>>> . . . which misses the fundamental
>> point
>>> entirely. It's not about people
>> having more or
>>> less "stuff" being treated
>> differently from
>>> folks who have a different amounts of
>> "stuff."
>>> It's about the abuse of law.
>>>
>>> The law is simply the collective
>> manifestation
>>> of our individual right to self
>> defense.
>>> See Bastiat, "The Law":
>>>
>>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Simple-Ideas/TRL/The_Law.pdf
>>>
>>> In a civilized society the law is not
>> a tool of
>>> plunder, oppression or class
>> warfare.
>>> As soon as a politician utters a
>> word
>>> personal to any citizen, they have
>> violated
>>> the founding fathers spirit and
>> intent for
>>> crafting a civilized society.
>>>
>>> This isn't a conservative, liberal,
>> republican,
>>> or democratic thing. All of those
>> entities
>>> are pitting one group against
>> another
>>> with arguments that go into the most
>>> trivial of details while ignoring
>>> the "elephant in the room." Liberty
>> is a
>>> fundamental right to be left alone.
>>>
>>> The founding fathers were not
>> interested
>>> in groups but in individuals. Not for
>> their
>>> beliefs but for their behaviors. The
>> honorable
>>> citizen protects the liberty of
>> himself and
>>> his neighbors. The citizen capable of
>> heroism
>>> will do so at personal risk.
>>>
>>> The premise of the AEA response was
>> dead on.
>>> The idea that anyone should single
>> out a
>>> group of individuals for special
>> attention
>>> under the law completely ignores the
>> far
>>> reaching ramifications for that
>> attack upon
>>> liberty of millions. See:
>>>
>>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Simple-Ideas/TRL/I_Pencil.pdf
>>>
>>> An airplane, yacht, luxury home in
>> the mountains,
>>> or the lowly pencil are the sum
>> totals of
>>> work-product for millions of people.
>> The idea that
>>> corporate jets are separate and
>> isolated
>>> from the constellation of
>> self-interested
>>> providers of value all over the
>> planet is
>>> misguided. It's certainly not in
>> keeping
>>> with First Principals upon which
>> this
>>> country was founded.
>>>
>>>> And sorry for the politics.
>>> Class warfare, plunder and oppression
>> ARE
>>> indeed political. The fundamentals
>> for creation
>>> and maintenance of a civilized
>> society are
>>> not. Like rivets, aluminum, and oil
>> for
>>> the Tefzel insulation, they are
>> ingredients
>>> that go into a recipe for success.
>> The fact
>>> liberty and honorable endeavors are
>> behaviors
>>> as opposed to hard goods is what
>> makes them
>>> unique to humans.
>>>
>>> If you'd like to continue this
>> discussion,
>>> I can crank up another list-server
>> engine
>>> on matronics.com for that purpose. I
>> have
>>> a couple of them that are not in
>> service
>>> at the present time.
>>>
>>> Bob . . .
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob . . .
>>>
Message 14
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|
Subject: | Re: Antenna static discharge protection |
At 07:04 PM 7/1/2011, you wrote:
>
>I'm curious if anyone has experience with protecting RF circuits from
>static buildup on exposed antennas during flight.
What kinds of circuits? Radios designed for the
aircraft environment are already so protected.
>What is required? Assuming the circuit can only withstand small
>voltages (10-20V), is a 100V ceramic blocking capacitor with a 1Meg
>drain resistor sufficient? Do you need some sort of diode or gas
>discharge device?
>
>Has anyone done or seen research on how quickly voltages can rise (or
>fall) on an antenna element in flight?
Not sure about rates of rise but intensities can
be very high . . . 100Kv type high
>I'm looking at ham radio-type stuff here, so don't assume a nice,
>robust nav/com radio :)
Voltages are high, but energies and currents are
very low. A simple inductor across the antenna lead
to ground having negligible conductivity at frequencies
of interest are quite sufficient.
A 1000 ohm resistor across a 50 ohm transmission
line would have negligible effect on swr and/or
lost energy . . . and a profound effect on buildup
of precipitation static.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Antenna static discharge protection |
> Voltages are high, but energies and currents are
> very low. A simple inductor across the antenna lead
> to ground having negligible conductivity at frequencies
> of interest are quite sufficient.
>
> A 1000 ohm resistor across a 50 ohm transmission
> line would have negligible effect on swr and/or
> lost energy . . . and a profound effect on buildup
> of precipitation static.
Ah! I hadn't considered a shunt inductor!
Thanks for the info! If anyone else knows where to find data on in flight ESD I'd
still love to see it.
Message 16
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ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also available using the
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in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?AeroElectric
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
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Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
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For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
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******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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Subject: | Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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