Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:22 AM - Re: Fw: PTT issue (Dan Billingsley)
2. 06:30 AM - Re: Drowned battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 07:01 AM - Re: HD Sub-D Crimper (n395v)
4. 07:47 AM - Re: Re: HD Sub-D Crimper (Mike Welch)
5. 10:04 AM - Re: Circuit Design Software (Bubblehead)
6. 03:02 PM - Re: Re: Circuit Design Software (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 06:24 PM - Re: Re: Circuit Design Software (David)
8. 07:09 PM - Re: Re: Circuit Design Software (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 07:15 PM - Re: Re: Circuit Design Software (tim2542@sbcglobal.net)
10. 08:08 PM - Re: Re: Circuit Design Software (David)
11. 08:09 PM - Re: Re: Circuit Design Software (David)
12. 08:43 PM - Re: Circuit Design Software (zodiac601)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: PTT issue |
Bob,
Thanks for the very well written explanation of negative resistance. I
appreciate all of the effort you give to this list...it is invaluable to so many
of us trying to learn/ understand the nature ofthese things called electrons.
The next time I rent an ole Cessna with a waving ammeter, I'll give it a wave
back for you.
Dan
----- Original Message ----
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 6:28:53 PM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fw: PTT issue
>
><nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 11:31 AM 7/13/2011, you wrote:
><dan@azshowersolutions.com>
> >
> > As of this morning my PTT Buzz ghost is gone. I haven't done an engine start
> > yet, so I'm not going to do back-flips (don't wanna jinx it) but I am a
happy
> > camper. As per my e-mail below to Bob N. , I started tracing wires and
>noticed
> > the red and white tristed pair which were "salvaged" wires meant for an
>engine
> > instrument. I know these thermocouple wires are dissimilar and now I know
>this
> > is a big no no to use them in a system for power or return.
> >
> > Thanks Bob and All for the ideas and comments.
>
> What Dan was experiencing was a manifestation of
> 'negative resistance' . . . a euphemism for the
> effects on closed loop system stability where root cause
> is an un-accounted for increase in resistance somewhere
> in the loop. The resistance causes devices with gain to
> believe they're seeing positive feedback. Positive feedback
> + gain can produce instabilities, i.e. oscillations.
>
> The classic example discussed here on the list at
> various times over the years was the "galloping ammeter"
> in airplanes where the power path from the bus through
> a breaker, alternator switch, ov protection system and
> perhaps a dozen crimps and mated pins in connectors
> was carrying BOTH field_current AND sense-voltage
> for a simple regulator.
>
> After years of service, the sum total of resistance
> in this path might rise by several hundred milliohms.
> At some point, this became a 'negative resistance' value
> that caused the voltage regulator to 'chase' a moving
> target for bus voltage . . . voltage the regulator could
> SEE at the end of the wire was waving in the breeze in
> response to changes of field current as the regulator
> attempted to get it's arms around design goals.
>
> Interestingly enough, many such problems appeared to
> go away after a mechanic replace THE master switch or
> THE circuit breaker. The mechanic would then pronounce
> the replaced device as 'bad' and push the airplane
> out the door . . . only to have it return in perhaps
> a few months with the same problem.
>
> This is discussed in more detail on page 9 of
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Alternators/Know_Your_Charging_System.pdf
>
> This is a situation where TOTAL replacement of all
> components in the field-power/voltage-sense path would
> offer a new lease on regulator stability probably for
> tens of years.
>
> Dan's situation involved a transceiver that didn't
> draw enough current in receive to produce a distasteful
> voltage at the back of the radio. But when he attempted
> to transmit, the voltage fell below some value that
> caused some part of the transmitter to shut down.
> The current would drop, the transmitter would recover,
> the offended circuit would do it's thing again. In this
> case it was a pretty fast rate of shut-down, recovery and
> shutdown that produced a near musical note.
>
> These situations are pretty rare except where they are
> literally designed in. The engineers that wired alternators
> in Cessnas in 1968 had no idea that aging of the quality
> of joints in that power/sense path over 30+ years would
> cause the system to go unstable. None-the-less, it happens
> on lots of older airplanes all the time and very few mechanics
> understand why or how to really fix it.
>
> Dan's particular discovery for this phenomenon turned
> out to be a craftsmanship/materials issue. MUCH easier
> to find and fix than design errors. His radio is going
> to be just fine in 30 years . . . but as you read these
> words, many an ammeter on lots of Piper and Cessna aircraft
> is waving in the breeze.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Drowned battery |
At 11:39 PM 7/13/2011, you wrote:
>
>FWIW
>
>The depth of the water might be a factor. 6ft of water would create
>approximately 2.5 psi of pressure trying to force the water into any
>gas spaces in the battery. I don't know if the battery design
>results in any gas spaces within the battery and I don't know if the
>release valve or any other part of the battery would be vulnerable
>to water infiltration at that pressure. Just another factor to consider.
Good point. I can't speak to all SLVA batteries
but I believe most of them feature vent valves that
release on over-pressure from inside the case but
remain tight for over-pressure from outside.
One of the reasons given is to reduce the amount of
dissolved oxygen in the electrolyte. SVLA batteries
have a very low self-discharge rate because they are
not subject to outside atmospheric changes that tend
to boost dissolved oxygen in the electrolyte.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: HD Sub-D Crimper |
> Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:53 pm Post subject: HD Sub-D Crimper
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Now thats customer service! Id like to hope everyone will take note and remember
Steinair appropriately when needing items or services which they carry.
>
>
That kind of service is typical of Stein.
--------
Milt
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=346311#346311
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| Subject: | Re: HD Sub-D Crimper |
> That kind of service is typical of Stein.
>
> --------
> Milt
Milt=2C and guys=2C
I concur. When I was hooking up my Dynon D10A in my panel last
winter=2C I saw that my pre-wired harness was missing one of the
pins and the wire in the 'alarm' location in the DB15 plug.
Stein supplies Dynon with their optional wiring harness. Years ago=2C
when my D10A was sold=2C there wasn't a call for a pin & wire in that
spot=2C so therefore it didn't come with one.
Stein's answer was to send me the missing pin & wire....for free!
Such customer service is the foundation of long-term loyalty.
Maybe someone should forward Stein's email address to Jan E.
Mike Welch
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Circuit Design Software |
harley(at)AgelessWings.co wrote:
> Morning, John...
>
> I started with Generic Cadd at work back in the early '80s because the
pharmaceutical company I worked for didn't have any IT department then
and I had to buy my own computer and software...Gcadd was cheap then ($99).
>
> After a few years, when they started supplying Autocad at work, I stuck
with GCadd so as not to have to learn something new. My work (production
equipment and control design) was not involved with the building engineering
where the Autocad was used, so I was allowed to do so.
>
> I liked GCADD better than Autocad anyway, as I could work faster...GCADD
used two letter commands for the drawing options as well as the standard
icons or menu options that one had to hunt down to select. It was fast
and easy with the left hand doing the selecting on the keyboard and the
right doing the drawing with the trackball.
>
> So, I've stuck with it through the years. Generic Cadd is now Visual
CADD and works the same way. I would never change now.
>
> [b]
I did the same thing. I needed a CAD package and my employer did not want to ante
up for a full package but he did pay for a seat of Generic Cadd. 20 years
later I've used AutoCad, TurboCAD, and my favorite SolidWorks but GenericCadd
has a fond place in my heart. I loved the two letter abbreviations. I entered
them left handed and worked the mouse right handed and could really fly!
--------
John
Keller, TX
RV-8 N247TD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=346337#346337
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Circuit Design Software |
>
>I did the same thing. I needed a CAD package and my employer did
>not want to ante up for a full package but he did pay for a seat of
>Generic Cadd. 20 years later I've used AutoCad, TurboCAD, and my
>favorite SolidWorks but GenericCadd has a fond place in my heart. I
>loved the two letter abbreviations. I entered them left handed and
>worked the mouse right handed and could really fly!
AutoCAD has a script file one can edit
For example, here's my one and two letter
overlay script for 99% of all the AutoCAD
commands I need to do my work. I learned to
mouse with either hand and type with the ohter
to minimize tendencies for repetitive motion
damage.
I also found this list useful for teaching
AutoCAD . . . If one learns this list of
commands first, you can be VERY productive
while learning the other 1000 commands as needed!
AR, *ARRAY
B, *BLOCK
BR, *BREAK
C, *CIRCLE
CH, *CHAMFER
C, *COPY
E, *ERASE
ED, *DDEDIT
EL, *ELLIPSE
EX, *EXTEND
H, *HATCH
I, *INSERT
L, *LINE
LA, *LAYER
LT, *LINETYPE
M, *MOVE
MI, *MIRROR
P, *PAN
PE, *PEDIT
PL, *PLINE
P, *PURGE
R, *REDRAW
RE, *REGEN
RCT, *RECTANGLE
RO, *ROTATE
S, *STRETCH
SC, *SCALE
SCR, *SCRIPT
T, *TRIM
V, *VIEW
W, *WBLOCK
X, *EXPLODE
Z, *ZOOM
I knew some folks who had to routinely use two
different cad systems. The customized command overlay
file made AutoCAD mimic the other program to a large
degree . . .
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Circuit Design Software |
I'd like to have a drawing system that is not a CAD system. I want to
place a part with standardized icon, draw a line from there to the next
part, and have the computer automagically arrange everything so that
nothing overlaps and one can label the wires, etc. Don't know that it
exists. Guess I'll have to write it someday.
David M.
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>
>>
>> I did the same thing. I needed a CAD package and my employer did not
>> want to ante up for a full package but he did pay for a seat of
>> Generic Cadd. 20 years later I've used AutoCad, TurboCAD, and my
>> favorite SolidWorks but GenericCadd has a fond place in my heart. I
>> loved the two letter abbreviations. I entered them left handed and
>> worked the mouse right handed and could really fly!
>
> AutoCAD has a script file one can edit
>
> For example, here's my one and two letter
> overlay script for 99% of all the AutoCAD
> commands I need to do my work. I learned to
> mouse with either hand and type with the ohter
> to minimize tendencies for repetitive motion
> damage.
>
> I also found this list useful for teaching
> AutoCAD . . . If one learns this list of
> commands first, you can be VERY productive
> while learning the other 1000 commands as needed!
>
>
> AR, *ARRAY
> B, *BLOCK
> BR, *BREAK
> C, *CIRCLE
> CH, *CHAMFER
> C, *COPY
> E, *ERASE
> ED, *DDEDIT
> EL, *ELLIPSE
> EX, *EXTEND
> H, *HATCH
> I, *INSERT
> L, *LINE
> LA, *LAYER
> LT, *LINETYPE
> M, *MOVE
> MI, *MIRROR
> P, *PAN
> PE, *PEDIT
> PL, *PLINE
> P, *PURGE
> R, *REDRAW
> RE, *REGEN
> RCT, *RECTANGLE
> RO, *ROTATE
> S, *STRETCH
> SC, *SCALE
> SCR, *SCRIPT
> T, *TRIM
> V, *VIEW
> W, *WBLOCK
> X, *EXPLODE
> Z, *ZOOM
>
> I knew some folks who had to routinely use two
> different cad systems. The customized command overlay
> file made AutoCAD mimic the other program to a large
> degree . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
--
If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid
of Soros.
...democracy and a republic can function only in a firm partnership with morality
and religion. -- John Adams. Indeed. Same should be said for ANY type of
gubmnt
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Circuit Design Software |
At 08:11 PM 7/14/2011, you wrote:
>
>I'd like to have a drawing system that is not a CAD system. I want
>to place a part with standardized icon, draw a line from there to
>the next part, and have the computer automagically arrange
>everything so that nothing overlaps and one can label the wires,
>etc. Don't know that it exists. Guess I'll have to write it someday.
But who is your market? For most product development
efforts the schematic is but an intermediate step
between conception and production. Schematic generation
programs with any degree of sophistication generate
'net lists' which are operated on to convert the schematic
to an etched circuit board. Interestingly enough, these
same schematics are often used to publish various
service/training manuals. The net list generator couldn't
care less whether the schematic is on one or 100 pages.
But the poor tech trying to trace a circuit has to jump
across pages with cryptic 'bus labels' to guide them.
Some free schematic generation systems like Express PCB
would probably come close to what you want to do but for
a guy who grew up looking at ARRL schematics in the
Handbook and QST magazine, symbology for most schematic
generation programs seems pretty crude . . . but then
the drawing of crystal clear diagrams is becoming a lost
art form.
So before you launch into what has to be a monumental
programming and graphics effort, it could be well to
make sure there's a market for your work-product.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Circuit Design Software |
Micro soft Visio.... Works great for this, made for it in fact.
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 14, 2011, at 6:11 PM, David <ainut@knology.net> wrote:
>
> I'd like to have a drawing system that is not a CAD system. I want to place
a part with standardized icon, draw a line from there to the next part, and have
the computer automagically arrange everything so that nothing overlaps and
one can label the wires, etc. Don't know that it exists. Guess I'll have to
write it someday.
>
> David M.
>
>
>
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I did the same thing. I needed a CAD package and my employer did not want
to ante up for a full package but he did pay for a seat of Generic Cadd. 20 years
later I've used AutoCad, TurboCAD, and my favorite SolidWorks but GenericCadd
has a fond place in my heart. I loved the two letter abbreviations. I entered
them left handed and worked the mouse right handed and could really fly!
>>
>> AutoCAD has a script file one can edit
>>
>> For example, here's my one and two letter
>> overlay script for 99% of all the AutoCAD
>> commands I need to do my work. I learned to
>> mouse with either hand and type with the ohter
>> to minimize tendencies for repetitive motion
>> damage.
>>
>> I also found this list useful for teaching
>> AutoCAD . . . If one learns this list of
>> commands first, you can be VERY productive
>> while learning the other 1000 commands as needed!
>>
>>
>> AR, *ARRAY
>> B, *BLOCK
>> BR, *BREAK
>> C, *CIRCLE
>> CH, *CHAMFER
>> C, *COPY
>> E, *ERASE
>> ED, *DDEDIT
>> EL, *ELLIPSE
>> EX, *EXTEND
>> H, *HATCH
>> I, *INSERT
>> L, *LINE
>> LA, *LAYER
>> LT, *LINETYPE
>> M, *MOVE
>> MI, *MIRROR
>> P, *PAN
>> PE, *PEDIT
>> PL, *PLINE
>> P, *PURGE
>> R, *REDRAW
>> RE, *REGEN
>> RCT, *RECTANGLE
>> RO, *ROTATE
>> S, *STRETCH
>> SC, *SCALE
>> SCR, *SCRIPT
>> T, *TRIM
>> V, *VIEW
>> W, *WBLOCK
>> X, *EXPLODE
>> Z, *ZOOM
>>
>> I knew some folks who had to routinely use two
>> different cad systems. The customized command overlay
>> file made AutoCAD mimic the other program to a large
>> degree . . .
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get
rid of Soros.
>
> ...democracy and a republic can function only in a firm partnership with morality
and religion. -- John Adams. Indeed. Same should be said for ANY type of
gubmnt
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Circuit Design Software |
Don't need a market. It would be just for me and whoever wants it.
david
of the Gnu generation
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 08:11 PM 7/14/2011, you wrote:
>>
>> I'd like to have a drawing system that is not a CAD system. I want
>> to place a part with standardized icon, draw a line from there to the
>> next part, and have the computer automagically arrange everything so
>> that nothing overlaps and one can label the wires, etc. Don't know
>> that it exists. Guess I'll have to write it someday.
>
> But who is your market? For most product development
> efforts the schematic is but an intermediate step
> between conception and production. Schematic generation
> programs with any degree of sophistication generate
> 'net lists' which are operated on to convert the schematic
> to an etched circuit board. Interestingly enough, these
> same schematics are often used to publish various
> service/training manuals. The net list generator couldn't
> care less whether the schematic is on one or 100 pages.
> But the poor tech trying to trace a circuit has to jump
> across pages with cryptic 'bus labels' to guide them.
>
> Some free schematic generation systems like Express PCB
> would probably come close to what you want to do but for
> a guy who grew up looking at ARRL schematics in the
> Handbook and QST magazine, symbology for most schematic
> generation programs seems pretty crude . . . but then
> the drawing of crystal clear diagrams is becoming a lost
> art form.
>
> So before you launch into what has to be a monumental
> programming and graphics effort, it could be well to
> make sure there's a market for your work-product.
>
>
> Bob . . .
> ////
> (o o)
> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
> < Go ahead, make my day . . . >
> < show me where I'm wrong. >
> ================================
>
>
--
If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid
of Soros.
...democracy and a republic can function only in a firm partnership with morality
and religion. -- John Adams. Indeed. Same should be said for ANY type of
gubmnt
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Circuit Design Software |
Outstanding! I'll try it. Thanks.
David
tim2542@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: tim2542@sbcglobal.net
>
> Micro soft Visio.... Works great for this, made for it in fact.
> Tim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 14, 2011, at 6:11 PM, David<ainut@knology.net> wrote:
>
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: David<ainut@knology.net>
>>
>> I'd like to have a drawing system that is not a CAD system. I want to place
a part with standardized icon, draw a line from there to the next part, and have
the computer automagically arrange everything so that nothing overlaps and
one can label the wires, etc. Don't know that it exists. Guess I'll have to
write it someday.
>>
>> David M.
>>
>>
>>
>> Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>
>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I did the same thing. I needed a CAD package and my employer did not want
to ante up for a full package but he did pay for a seat of Generic Cadd. 20
years later I've used AutoCad, TurboCAD, and my favorite SolidWorks but GenericCadd
has a fond place in my heart. I loved the two letter abbreviations. I
entered them left handed and worked the mouse right handed and could really fly!
>>>>
>>> AutoCAD has a script file one can edit
>>>
>>> For example, here's my one and two letter
>>> overlay script for 99% of all the AutoCAD
>>> commands I need to do my work. I learned to
>>> mouse with either hand and type with the ohter
>>> to minimize tendencies for repetitive motion
>>> damage.
>>>
>>> I also found this list useful for teaching
>>> AutoCAD . . . If one learns this list of
>>> commands first, you can be VERY productive
>>> while learning the other 1000 commands as needed!
>>>
>>>
>>> AR, *ARRAY
>>> B, *BLOCK
>>> BR, *BREAK
>>> C, *CIRCLE
>>> CH, *CHAMFER
>>> C, *COPY
>>> E, *ERASE
>>> ED, *DDEDIT
>>> EL, *ELLIPSE
>>> EX, *EXTEND
>>> H, *HATCH
>>> I, *INSERT
>>> L, *LINE
>>> LA, *LAYER
>>> LT, *LINETYPE
>>> M, *MOVE
>>> MI, *MIRROR
>>> P, *PAN
>>> PE, *PEDIT
>>> PL, *PLINE
>>> P, *PURGE
>>> R, *REDRAW
>>> RE, *REGEN
>>> RCT, *RECTANGLE
>>> RO, *ROTATE
>>> S, *STRETCH
>>> SC, *SCALE
>>> SCR, *SCRIPT
>>> T, *TRIM
>>> V, *VIEW
>>> W, *WBLOCK
>>> X, *EXPLODE
>>> Z, *ZOOM
>>>
>>> I knew some folks who had to routinely use two
>>> different cad systems. The customized command overlay
>>> file made AutoCAD mimic the other program to a large
>>> degree . . .
>>>
>>> Bob . . .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get
rid of Soros.
>>
>> ...democracy and a republic can function only in a firm partnership with morality
and religion. -- John Adams. Indeed. Same should be said for ANY type
of gubmnt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid
of Soros.
...democracy and a republic can function only in a firm partnership with morality
and religion. -- John Adams. Indeed. Same should be said for ANY type of
gubmnt
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Circuit Design Software |
+1 for Visio
I've drawn electrical schematics with it several times.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=346455#346455
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