---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 07/15/11: 36 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:43 AM - Re: Re: Circuit Design Software (Stuart Hutchison) 2. 04:41 AM - Re: Viking Engine () 3. 05:03 AM - Re: Re: Circuit Design Software (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS) 4. 06:27 AM - Re: Re: Circuit Design Software (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 07:48 AM - strobe power supply (Bill Boyd) 6. 08:14 AM - Re: strobe power supply (Mike Welch) 7. 08:56 AM - Re: Re: Circuit Design Software (b d) 8. 09:28 AM - Re: Re: Circuit Design Software (Noel Loveys) 9. 09:30 AM - Re: strobe power supply (Bill Hibbing) 10. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: Viking Engine (b d) 11. 09:50 AM - Re: strobe power supply (Bill Boyd) 12. 10:00 AM - Re: Re: Viking Engine (Dj Merrill) 13. 10:42 AM - It's nice when the center holds . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 11:26 AM - Re: Re: Circuit Design Software (Bill Watson) 15. 11:40 AM - Tail light LED (Bill Boyd) 16. 11:58 AM - Re: It's nice when the center holds . . . (Carlos Trigo) 17. 12:16 PM - Re: It's nice when the center holds . . . (Richard Dudley) 18. 01:03 PM - Re: It's nice when the center holds . . . (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS) 19. 01:07 PM - Re: Tail light LED (Dennis Havarlah) 20. 01:42 PM - Re: Tail light LED (Kelly McMullen) 21. 02:25 PM - Re: Re: Viking Engine (Richard Girard) 22. 02:31 PM - Re: It's nice when the center holds . . . (Henador Titzoff) 23. 02:32 PM - Re: It's nice when the center holds . . . (b d) 24. 02:54 PM - Re: It's nice when the center holds . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 25. 03:01 PM - Re: Re: Viking Engine (b d) 26. 03:08 PM - Re: Re: Viking Engine (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 27. 03:13 PM - Re: It's nice when the center holds . . . (Carlos Trigo) 28. 03:16 PM - Re: Re: Viking Engine (BobsV35B@aol.com) 29. 04:29 PM - Re: It's nice when the center holds . . . (Charlie England) 30. 04:48 PM - Re: It's nice when the center holds . . . (Bill Watson) 31. 05:18 PM - Re: It's nice when the center holds . . . (paul wilson) 32. 06:06 PM - Re: Re: Circuit Design Software (David) 33. 06:08 PM - Re: Re: Circuit Design Software (David) 34. 06:10 PM - Re: Re: Circuit Design Software (David) 35. 10:05 PM - Re: Re: Viking Engine (rayj) 36. 10:33 PM - ELT antenna placement (Paul Kuntz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:43:26 AM PST US From: "Stuart Hutchison" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Design Software Another plug for MS Visio. Attached is a draft 'start circuit' I drew for myself a few months back. Outputing to PDF resized some of the lines, but Visio itself is great. Cheers, Stu -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of zodiac601 Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 1:40 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Design Software --> +1 for Visio I've drawn electrical schematics with it several times. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=346455#346455 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:38 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Viking Engine 7/15/2011 Congratulations Fellow Amateur Builders, Several years ago when I first began to read amateur builder postings in various venues I was dismayed and concerned about the general lack of knowledge regarding the fundamental rules governing our community and the casual attitude towards such rules. Postings consisting of speculation, hearsay, gossip, and rumors would go on at length about any particular subject with not one poster citing the fundamental document governing the subject or even hinting that such a document may even exist. What a change we have seen. While there was significant thread creep on the aeroelectric list away from Viking Engine(s) per se in this thread several posters got directly into whatever side path may have been taken and provided clarification by stating outright, or provided links to, the facts contained in the controlling documents.** Demonstrating this knowlege, and a responsible attitude towards the rules, is very healthy for our amateur built community as aviation is already seen by the general public, with significant help from the lame stream media, as fraught with risky ventures and amateur builders ("nut case builds airplane in his grarage") as being probably totally irresponsible. Let's keep up the good work and help stamp out speculation, hearsay, gossip, and rumors as a means of communication (and confusion for the new guys) when the facts are usually readily available in this great day of the internet. 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." **PS: I am not suggesting that all of the controlling documents (or the bureaucrats that enforce them) are all wise and should be followed slavishly. I am suggestion that if one decides to deviate from the rules that the deviation be done with knowledge and deliberation not out of ignorance. DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:02 AM PST US From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Design Software > >I'd like to have a drawing system that is not a CAD system. I want >to place a part with standardized icon, draw a line from there to >the next part, and have the computer automagically arrange >everything so that nothing overlaps and one can label the wires, >etc. Don't know that it exists. Guess I'll have to write it someday. My suggestion is to download the FREE Express PCB software and give it a try. I find it to be rather easy to use and has symbols with it, that are easy to place and interconnect. So, give it a go. . . "Nothing ventured nothing lost" Roger ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:55 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Design Software At 03:38 AM 7/15/2011, you wrote: >Another plug for MS Visio. Attached is a draft 'start circuit' I drew for >myself a few months back. Outputing to PDF resized some of the lines, but >Visio itself is great. I would encourage anyone who is willing to spend the $time$ to become competent in any sort of illustration software also take the time to become fluent in the language of speaking and illustrating "electronese". If you look at any drawings produced in the 'Connection or on aeroelectric.com, the diagrams speak to specific connections of wires to terminals of devices, to wire sizes, symbology to suggest type of terminals used, internal functions of devices such as switches, relays, contactors, motors, etc. The whole story on one page. VERY FEW professional illustrators of consumer product wiring diagrams bother to offer such detail in their work-product. Even folks who should know better. I can't tell you how many no-value hours I spent trying to find a truly descriptive schematic of how the fuel selector valve and gage system worked in my '87 GMC truck. All the schematics in 'official' published documents showed "boxes" with colored wires routing between them and no information what so ever as to what goes on inside the boxes. Having finally discovered what I needed to know, it made perfect sense and I can now draw the schematic from memory, not as an activity to mimic somebody else's drawings but as a fundamental understanding of how the system works. I'll suggest there are two aspects of creating really useful drawings. The choice of illustration software obviously drives the general appearance of the finished drawings. But organization and completeness is entirely up to the skills, willingness and experience of the illustrator. Symbols for lucid production of schematics and diagrams are the language of the discipline. Learn the symbols too and use what ever illustrative tools to present those symbols in a manner that makes understanding 'jump off the page' into the mind of the competent observer. These same drawings will provide a solid foundation for sharing understanding for the not-so- competent observer with a willingness and desire to learn. Just a few more little lines in the published schematics for my truck's fuel system would have completed the story and saved a lot of wasted time. COMPLETE schematics are the tools of both teaching how something works but the tools of understanding for how to fix the thing that doesn't work at some later time. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ================================ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:31 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: strobe power supply From: Bill Boyd My decades-old Whelen supply now flashes only one of two tubes even if I reverse the tube cables - looks like one channel is dead. No longer makes the whining sound when operational, either. Looking to replace with a suitable Whelen supply not made for aviation use but similar energy output. Any reason a Whelen CPS 660 or 690 wouldn't work? Much cheaper on Ebay than any of the aviation power supplies. -Bill B ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:47 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: strobe power supply Boyd=2C That kind of like the strobe power supplies I use. They are built for th e "emergency vehicle" use (police=2C fire engines=2C etc) strobes. They flash my 'Beech Aircraft' strobe units just fine!! The units are made by "Optimax". Mike Welch Subject: AeroElectric-List: strobe power supply From: sportav8r@gmail.com My decades-old Whelen supply now flashes only one of two tubes even if I re verse the tube cables - looks like one channel is dead. No longer makes the whining sound when operational=2C either. Looking to replace with a suita ble Whelen supply not made for aviation use but similar energy output. Any reason a Whelen CPS 660 or 690 wouldn't work? Much cheaper on Ebay tha n any of the aviation power supplies. -Bill B ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:43 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Design Software From: b d 1. Are you looking for an active program like SPICE? (Simulated analysis) 2. Or a passive, flat program to show the electrical diagram? 3. Or do you want to show the actual component layout on the circuit board? Sorry but I missed the beginning of the discussion. It sounds like you have already bread-boarded and proven your circuit and are looking to go from 2 to 3 for production. Is that correct? On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 4:58 AM, ROGER & JEAN CURTIS < mrspudandcompany@verizon.net> wrote: > > > >I'd like to have a drawing system that is not a CAD system. I want > >to place a part with standardized icon, draw a line from there to > >the next part, and have the computer automagically arrange > >everything so that nothing overlaps and one can label the wires, > >etc. Don't know that it exists. Guess I'll have to write it someday. > > > My suggestion is to download the FREE Express PCB software > and give it a try. I find it to be rather easy to use and has symbols with > it, that are easy to place and interconnect. > > So, give it a go. . . "Nothing ventured nothing lost" > > Roger > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:28:43 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Design Software Confusing... you say you do not want a CAD system then you describe CAD system. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Sent: July 15, 2011 12:27 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Design Software Don't need a market. It would be just for me and whoever wants it. david of the Gnu generation Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > At 08:11 PM 7/14/2011, you wrote: >> >> I'd like to have a drawing system that is not a CAD system. I want >> to place a part with standardized icon, draw a line from there to the >> next part, and have the computer automagically arrange everything so >> that nothing overlaps and one can label the wires, etc. Don't know >> that it exists. Guess I'll have to write it someday. > > But who is your market? For most product development > efforts the schematic is but an intermediate step > between conception and production. Schematic generation > programs with any degree of sophistication generate > 'net lists' which are operated on to convert the schematic > to an etched circuit board. Interestingly enough, these > same schematics are often used to publish various > service/training manuals. The net list generator couldn't > care less whether the schematic is on one or 100 pages. > But the poor tech trying to trace a circuit has to jump > across pages with cryptic 'bus labels' to guide them. > > Some free schematic generation systems like Express PCB > would probably come close to what you want to do but for > a guy who grew up looking at ARRL schematics in the > Handbook and QST magazine, symbology for most schematic > generation programs seems pretty crude . . . but then > the drawing of crystal clear diagrams is becoming a lost > art form. > > So before you launch into what has to be a monumental > programming and graphics effort, it could be well to > make sure there's a market for your work-product. > > > Bob . . . > //// > (o o) > ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== > < Go ahead, make my day . . . > > < show me where I'm wrong. > > ================================ > > -- If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid of Soros. ...democracy and a republic can function only in a firm partnership with morality and religion. -- John Adams. Indeed. Same should be said for ANY type of gubmnt ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:30:29 AM PST US From: "Bill Hibbing" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: strobe power supply Bill, Is the strobe that does flash the same one when you reverse the cables? I had a similar problem a couple of years ago and it turned out to be a burned out strobe lamp. Bill Glasair SIIS-FT ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Boyd To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 9:45 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: strobe power supply My decades-old Whelen supply now flashes only one of two tubes even if I reverse the tube cables - looks like one channel is dead. No longer makes the whining sound when operational, either. Looking to replace with a suitable Whelen supply not made for aviation use but similar energy output. Any reason a Whelen CPS 660 or 690 wouldn't work? Much cheaper on Ebay than any of the aviation power supplies. -Bill B ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 07/14/11 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:48 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Viking Engine From: b d WOW, was this spam helpful to anyone? Just curious . . . . On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 4:37 AM, wrote: > > 7/15/2011 > > Congratulations Fellow Amateur Builders, > > Several years ago when I first began to read amateur builder postings in > various venues I was dismayed and concerned about the general lack of > knowledge regarding the fundamental rules governing our community and the > casual attitude towards such rules. Postings consisting of speculation, > hearsay, gossip, and rumors would go on at length about any particular > subject with not one poster citing the fundamental document governing the > subject or even hinting that such a document may even exist. > > What a change we have seen. While there was significant thread creep on the > aeroelectric list away from Viking Engine(s) per se in this thread several > posters got directly > into whatever side path may have been taken and provided clarification by > stating outright, or provided links to, the facts contained in the > controlling documents.** > > Demonstrating this knowlege, and a responsible attitude towards the rules, > is very healthy for our amateur built community as aviation is already seen > by the general public, with significant help from the lame stream media, as > fraught with risky ventures and amateur builders ("nut case builds airplane > in his grarage") as being probably totally irresponsible. > > Let's keep up the good work and help stamp out speculation, hearsay, > gossip, > and rumors as a means of communication (and confusion for the new guys) > when > the facts are usually readily available in this great day of the internet. > > 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to > gather and understand knowledge." > > **PS: I am not suggesting that all of the controlling documents (or the > bureaucrats that enforce them) are all wise and should be followed > slavishly. I am suggestion that if one decides to deviate from the rules > that the deviation be done with knowledge and deliberation not out of > ignorance. > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:57 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: strobe power supply From: Bill Boyd Yes, noticed the problem when I replaced an obviously burned out strobe head - the replacement didn't fix the issue. Swapped cables and verified each strobe head will flash normally, it's a dead channel in the PS, possibly from trying to fire a burned-out strobe head for awhile... On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Bill Hibbing wrote: > ** > Bill, > > Is the strobe that does flash the same one when you reverse the cables? I > had a similar problem a couple of years ago and it turned out to be a burned > out strobe lamp. > > Bill > Glasair SIIS-FT > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Bill Boyd > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Friday, July 15, 2011 9:45 AM > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: strobe power supply > > My decades-old Whelen supply now flashes only one of two tubes even if I > reverse the tube cables - looks like one channel is dead. No longer makes > the whining sound when operational, either. Looking to replace with a > suitable Whelen supply not made for aviation use but similar energy output. > > > Any reason a Whelen CPS 660 or 690 wouldn't work? Much cheaper on Ebay > than any of the aviation power supplies. > > -Bill B > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > ------------------------------ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:46 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Viking Engine From: Dj Merrill On 07/15/2011 12:40 PM, b d wrote: > WOW, was this spam helpful to anyone? Just curious . . . . Yes, I thought it was helpful. -Dj ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:53 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: It's nice when the center holds . . . See: http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/SUPERGT/3384/ Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ================================ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:25 AM PST US From: Bill Watson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Design Software I've attached a schematic created with Express SCH for reference. Bill "it can be really tough to get any work done at the airport on a nice day" Watson > Another plug for MS Visio. Attached is a draft 'start circuit' I drew for > myself a few months back. Outputing to PDF resized some of the lines, but > Visio itself is great. > > Cheers, Stu > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of zodiac601 > Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 1:40 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Design Software > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "zodiac601" > --> > > +1 for Visio > > I've drawn electrical schematics with it several times. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=346455#346455 > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:58 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Tail light LED From: Bill Boyd Anyone know of an aftermarket drop-in LED replacement for the 14v/25w clear white halogen bulb used in the Whelen A555 tail position light assembly? Finding all kinds of lights not working on this annual condition inspection... considering rolling my own from a fistful of white LED's in series, too. Can't be that hard. -Bill B ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:59 AM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: It's nice when the center holds . . . Nice landing, and a very good demonstration of excellent pilot skills! The only thing I don't really understand is why you (native English speakers) call this situation a "Dead Stick" landing, when this is everything but a dead stick. On the contrary, this is a very "Alive stick" situation.. What is really dead is the power source! Carlos Trigo > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III > Sent: sexta-feira, 15 de Julho de 2011 18:40 > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: It's nice when the center holds . . . > > > > See: > > http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/SUPERGT/3384/ > > > Bob . . . > //// > (o o) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:04 PM PST US From: Richard Dudley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: It's nice when the center holds . . . Hi Carlos, The expression precedes the jet engine by many years. The "stick" was the propeller (most likely wood at that time), dead when engine (power source) stops. Regards, Rich On 7/15/2011 2:55 PM, Carlos Trigo wrote: > > Nice landing, and a very good demonstration of excellent pilot skills! > > The only thing I don't really understand is why you (native English > speakers) call this situation a "Dead Stick" landing, when this is > everything but a dead stick. On the contrary, this is a very "Alive > stick" situation.... > > What is really dead is the power source! > > Carlos Trigo > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- > > > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III > > > Sent: sexta-feira, 15 de Julho de 2011 18:40 > > > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: It's nice when the center holds . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > See: > > > > > > http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/SUPERGT/3384/ > > > > > > > > > Bob . . . > > > //// > > > (o o) > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:07 PM PST US From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: It's nice when the center holds . . . The expression precedes the jet engine by many years. The "stick" was the propeller (most likely wood at that time), dead when engine (power source) stops. I did not know this origin. Guess you can always learn something here on the "Lectric List" Roger ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:14 PM PST US From: "Dennis Havarlah" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tail light LED Check out the boat replacement led running lights at Superbright LEDs. Dennis H. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Boyd To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 1:37 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Tail light LED Anyone know of an aftermarket drop-in LED replacement for the 14v/25w clear white halogen bulb used in the Whelen A555 tail position light assembly? Finding all kinds of lights not working on this annual condition inspection... considering rolling my own from a fistful of white LED's in series, too. Can't be that hard. -Bill B ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:33 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tail light LED http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/el/ledlighting_replacement.html On 7/15/2011 11:37 AM, Bill Boyd wrote: > Anyone know of an aftermarket drop-in LED replacement for the 14v/25w > clear white halogen bulb used in the Whelen A555 tail position light > assembly? > > Finding all kinds of lights not working on this annual condition > inspection... > > considering rolling my own from a fistful of white LED's in series, > too. Can't be that hard. > > -Bill B > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Viking Engine From: Richard Girard Bruce, The discussion has been interesting to me, certainly more than your rather rude comment. Rick Girard On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 11:40 AM, b d wrote: > WOW, was this spam helpful to anyone? Just curious . . . . > > > On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 4:37 AM, wrote: > >> >> 7/15/2011 >> >> Congratulations Fellow Amateur Builders, >> >> Several years ago when I first began to read amateur builder postings in >> various venues I was dismayed and concerned about the general lack of >> knowledge regarding the fundamental rules governing our community and the >> casual attitude towards such rules. Postings consisting of speculation, >> hearsay, gossip, and rumors would go on at length about any particular >> subject with not one poster citing the fundamental document governing the >> subject or even hinting that such a document may even exist. >> >> What a change we have seen. While there was significant thread creep on >> the >> aeroelectric list away from Viking Engine(s) per se in this thread several >> posters got directly >> into whatever side path may have been taken and provided clarification by >> stating outright, or provided links to, the facts contained in the >> controlling documents.** >> >> Demonstrating this knowlege, and a responsible attitude towards the rules, >> is very healthy for our amateur built community as aviation is already >> seen >> by the general public, with significant help from the lame stream media, >> as >> fraught with risky ventures and amateur builders ("nut case builds >> airplane >> in his grarage") as being probably totally irresponsible. >> >> Let's keep up the good work and help stamp out speculation, hearsay, >> gossip, >> and rumors as a means of communication (and confusion for the new guys) >> when >> the facts are usually readily available in this great day of the internet. >> >> 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort >> to >> gather and understand knowledge." >> >> **PS: I am not suggesting that all of the controlling documents (or the >> bureaucrats that enforce them) are all wise and should be followed >> slavishly. I am suggestion that if one decides to deviate from the rules >> that the deviation be done with knowledge and deliberation not out of >> ignorance. >> >> DO NOT ARCHIVE >> >> >> >> >> ====**==============================**= >> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/** >> Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> ====**==============================**= >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ====**==============================**= >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**contribution >> ====**==============================**= >> >> >> >> > * > > * > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:31:04 PM PST US From: Henador Titzoff Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: It's nice when the center holds . . . Richard Dudley is correct, Roger. -Here is the Wiki explanation:=0A=0A- - -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadstick_landing=0A-=0ALesson learn ed: as old as we are, we still don't know everything. -Thank you, Richard .=0A=0ACarlos, I bet you have similar sayings in your country.=0A=0AHenador Titzoff=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: ROGER & JEAN CURTIS =0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Friday, July 15, 2011 3:55 PM=0ASubject: RE: AeroElectric-List: It 's nice when the center holds . . .=0A=0A=0A--- --- The express ion precedes the jet engine by many years. The=0A"stick" was the propeller (most likely wood at that time), dead when engine=0A(power source) stops. =0A--- --- =0A=0A--- --- --- --- I did not know this origin.- Guess you can=0Aalways learn something here on the "Lectric List"=0A=0A--- --- --- --- Roger ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: It's nice when the center holds . . . From: b d *The only thing I don=92t really understand is why you (native English speakers) call this situation a =93Dead Stick=94 landing, when this is everything but a dead stick. On the contrary, this is a very =93Alive stick =94 situation=85.* *What is really dead is the power source!* Excellent observation . . . . the question is, shall we go back and change all the references using the "dead stick" phrase from all the books references and logs or shall we allow you to get over it and accept it. One vs. zillions :-) As I recall in a my old conversations with the Wright Bothers it originally meant "you are close to being dead if you don't use the stick to save your ass". I remember asking that very same question to Orville and Wilbur while sitting around their potbellied stove as if it was yesterday. They reiterated that "dead" had nothing to do with the engine but more about the pilot. So if you were them, what phrase would you like to use if we were to correc t the whole 100 plus years of aviation history and all log books to reflect your choice of phrases? "Alive stick"? This reminds me of the prison story where the new guy comes in and hears "257" and everyone laughs, then "522" and everyone laughs. He questions what is going on and his cell mate says, "we have told these jokes so many times we just numbered them to save time". The new guy says "let me try on e . . . 257!" but nobody laughed . . . then "522" and once again nobody laughed . . . he asked his cell mate "what gives?" The cell mate said, "some people can tell a joke and some can't!" You can stick with "Alive stick" and see how it works for you however removing the word "dead" from your thoughts may not be as healthy at that particular time. . . please let us know how it works for you. You could just yell out "dead" and forget the stick if that confuses you. That way th e "dead" will give you some indication of what happens if you don't move the stick in the proper, timely sequence. Don't take it personal, I'm just having fun with you . . . Where are you from? Bruce On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote : > ** > > Nice landing, and a very good demonstration of excellent pilot skills!*** * > > ** ** > > The only thing I don=92t really understand is why you (native English > speakers) call this situation a =93Dead Stick=94 landing, when this is > everything but a dead stick. On the contrary, this is a very =93Alive sti ck=94 > situation=85. **** > > What is really dead is the power source!**** > > ** ** > > Carlos Trigo**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list- > > > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III > > > Sent: sexta-feira, 15 de Julho de 2011 18:40 > > > To: **aeroelectric-list@matronics.com** > > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: It's nice when the center holds . . . > > > > > > > <**nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com**> > > > > > > See: > > > > > > http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/SUPERGT/3384/ > > > > > > > > > Bob . . . > > > //// > > > (o o) > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:17 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: It's nice when the center holds . . . > >What is really dead is the power source! The last few words of the pilot suggested something I'd not heard before. He talked about a 'hydrazine' hazard around his aircraft as he was talking with locals at his airport of destination. There was also a reference to an "EPU" . . . 'possible emergency power unit'. Hydrazine and sulfuric acid combine in a manner that provides spontaneous combustion with a very energetic release of energy. In this case, I'm thinking that the airplane was fitted with what could be a compact and relatively light weight energy source that required very little maintenance and has a long storage life. (I've seen AQM-37 hydrazine powered targets successfully flown after 20 years in storage). It would be interesting to hear from folks with experience inside the operating world of this style of aircraft as to it's 'dead stick' options for power. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:01:17 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Viking Engine From: b d FO On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Richard Girard wrote: > Bruce, The discussion has been interesting to me, certainly more than your > rather rude comment. > > Rick Girard > > On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 11:40 AM, b d wrote: > >> WOW, was this spam helpful to anyone? Just curious . . . . >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 4:37 AM, wrote: >> >>> >>> 7/15/2011 >>> >>> Congratulations Fellow Amateur Builders, >>> >>> Several years ago when I first began to read amateur builder postings in >>> various venues I was dismayed and concerned about the general lack of >>> knowledge regarding the fundamental rules governing our community and the >>> casual attitude towards such rules. Postings consisting of speculation, >>> hearsay, gossip, and rumors would go on at length about any particular >>> subject with not one poster citing the fundamental document governing the >>> subject or even hinting that such a document may even exist. >>> >>> What a change we have seen. While there was significant thread creep on >>> the >>> aeroelectric list away from Viking Engine(s) per se in this thread >>> several >>> posters got directly >>> into whatever side path may have been taken and provided clarification by >>> stating outright, or provided links to, the facts contained in the >>> controlling documents.** >>> >>> Demonstrating this knowlege, and a responsible attitude towards the >>> rules, >>> is very healthy for our amateur built community as aviation is already >>> seen >>> by the general public, with significant help from the lame stream media, >>> as >>> fraught with risky ventures and amateur builders ("nut case builds >>> airplane >>> in his grarage") as being probably totally irresponsible. >>> >>> Let's keep up the good work and help stamp out speculation, hearsay, >>> gossip, >>> and rumors as a means of communication (and confusion for the new guys) >>> when >>> the facts are usually readily available in this great day of the >>> internet. >>> >>> 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort >>> to >>> gather and understand knowledge." >>> >>> **PS: I am not suggesting that all of the controlling documents (or the >>> bureaucrats that enforce them) are all wise and should be followed >>> slavishly. I am suggestion that if one decides to deviate from the rules >>> that the deviation be done with knowledge and deliberation not out of >>> ignorance. >>> >>> DO NOT ARCHIVE >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ====**==============================**= >>> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/** >>> Navigator?AeroElectric-List >>> ====**==============================**= >>> http://forums.matronics.com >>> ====**==============================**= >>> le, List Admin. >>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**contribution >>> ====**==============================**= >>> >>> >>> >>> >> * >> >> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > > > -- > Zulu Delta > Mk IIIC > Thanks, Homer GBYM > > It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. > - Groucho Marx > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:08 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Viking Engine At 04:18 PM 7/15/2011, you wrote: On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 11:40 AM, b d wrote: WOW, was this spam helpful to anyone? Just curious . . . . Sure! Mr. Baker's unusual clarity of insight into the innate perversity human behaviors is worthy of consideration by any interested, competent observer. It doesn't matter if we're talking about folks who are building airplanes . . . or folks who would dearly love to burden us with the same regulatory millstones carried by our brothers in the TC aircraft industry. So I'd hardly call his efforts on our behalf 'spam'. A few milliseconds action on the 'delete' key will unburden the disinterested reader in a heartbeat. In my business, I use it many times a day every day. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:13:41 PM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: It's nice when the center holds . . . Sure we do Henador, but this one of yours seemed to be contradictory, thinking the stick could be the one you control your aircraft with. Now that I got the explanation that the dead "stick" is the propeller, it makes sense. Here in Portugal we aviators use to say, when the engine stops, that we have a "fixed joist" in the nose. Carlos _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henador Titzoff Sent: sexta-feira, 15 de Julho de 2011 22:26 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: It's nice when the center holds . . . ................... Carlos, I bet you have similar sayings in your country. Henador Titzoff ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:47 PM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Viking Engine Good Evening All, Personally, I find O. C.s comments to be interesting and always well documented. I don't always come to the same conclusion as he does, but that is not unusual considering the vast flexibility of interpretation that is inherent in our FAR's. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Stearman N3977A CFI - RAIG & ME A&P/IA In a message dated 7/15/2011 4:27:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time, aslsa.rng@gmail.com writes: Bruce, The discussion has been interesting to me, certainly more than your rather rude comment. Rick Girard On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 11:40 AM, b d <_gpabruce@gmail.com_ (mailto:gpabruce@gmail.com) > wrote: WOW, was this spam helpful to anyone? Just curious . . . . On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 4:37 AM, <_bakerocb@cox.net_ (mailto:bakerocb@cox.net) > wrote: (mailto:bakerocb@cox.net) > 7/15/2011 Congratulations Fellow Amateur Builders, Several years ago when I first began to read amateur builder postings in various venues I was dismayed and concerned about the general lack of knowledge regarding the fundamental rules governing our community and the casual attitude towards such rules. Postings consisting of speculation, hearsay, gossip, and rumors would go on at length about any particular subject with not one poster citing the fundamental document governing the subject or even hinting that such a document may even exist. What a change we have seen. While there was significant thread creep on the aeroelectric list away from Viking Engine(s) per se in this thread several posters got directly into whatever side path may have been taken and provided clarification by stating outright, or provided links to, the facts contained in the controlling documents.** Demonstrating this knowlege, and a responsible attitude towards the rules, is very healthy for our amateur built community as aviation is already seen by the general public, with significant help from the lame stream media, as fraught with risky ventures and amateur builders ("nut case builds airplane in his grarage") as being probably totally irresponsible. Let's keep up the good work and help stamp out speculation, hearsay, gossip, and rumors as a means of communication (and confusion for the new guys) when the facts are usually readily available in this great day of the internet. 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." **PS: I am not suggesting that all of the controlling documents (or the bureaucrats that enforce them) are all wise and should be followed slavishly. I am suggestion that if one decides to deviate from the rules that the deviation be done with knowledge and deliberation not out of ignorance. DO NOT ARCHIVE =================================== -List" target="_blank">_http://www.matronics.com/_ (http://www.matronics.com/) Navigator?AeroElectric-List =================================== _http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) =================================== le, List Admin. ="_blank">_http://www.matronics.com/_ (http://www.matronics.com/) contribution =================================== ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:52 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: It's nice when the center holds . . . On 07/15/2011 04:47 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> >> >> What is really dead is the power source! >> > > The last few words of the pilot suggested something I'd > not heard before. He talked about a 'hydrazine' hazard > around his aircraft as he was talking with locals at > his airport of destination. There was also a reference > to an "EPU" . . . 'possible emergency power unit'. > > Hydrazine and sulfuric acid combine in a manner that > provides spontaneous combustion with a very energetic > release of energy. In this case, I'm thinking that the > airplane was fitted with what could be a compact > and relatively light weight energy source that required > very little maintenance and has a long storage life. > (I've seen AQM-37 hydrazine powered targets successfully > flown after 20 years in storage). > > It would be interesting to hear from folks with experience > inside the operating world of this style of aircraft > as to it's 'dead stick' options for power. > > Bob . . . > Someone actually discusses the system in the comments below the video. Charlie ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:26 PM PST US From: Bill Watson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: It's nice when the center holds . . . On 7/15/2011 3:55 PM, ROGER & JEAN CURTIS wrote: > The expression precedes the jet engine by many years. The > "stick" was the propeller (most likely wood at that time), dead when engine > (power source) stops. > > > I did not know this origin. Guess you can > always learn something here on the "Lectric List" > ...and I've always known what it meant having been an RC enthusiast in the '60s when 50% of landings were 'dead stick'. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:44 PM PST US From: paul wilson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: It's nice when the center holds . . . Bob, APU is the aux power unit used to start the jet engine after landing in the boondocks. N2H4 is a mono propellant and works great with no other chemical, just a catalyst. Deadly stuff gives you cancer . So inflight engine shutdown and the APU would not do the restart or was defective. At least that is the way In understand the APU. Lots of combat planes have the N2H4 APUs. We use the stuff exclusively for satelite propulsion systems. That is how we steer the spy satelites. PaulW ======= At 03:47 PM 7/15/2011, you wrote: >>What is really dead is the power source! > > The last few words of the pilot suggested something I'd > not heard before. He talked about a 'hydrazine' hazard > around his aircraft as he was talking with locals at > his airport of destination. There was also a reference > to an "EPU" . . . 'possible emergency power unit'. > > Hydrazine and sulfuric acid combine in a manner that > provides spontaneous combustion with a very energetic > release of energy. In this case, I'm thinking that the > airplane was fitted with what could be a compact > and relatively light weight energy source that required > very little maintenance and has a long storage life. > (I've seen AQM-37 hydrazine powered targets successfully > flown after 20 years in storage). > > It would be interesting to hear from folks with experience > inside the operating world of this style of aircraft > as to it's 'dead stick' options for power. > > Bob . . . > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:37 PM PST US From: David Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Design Software Would it make sense to use a program like Spice in the mix, in order to show how the circuits work (and possibly identify problems before something is burned out?) I'm looking at the gEDA project (gpl electronic design automation) as the toolset to use right now. Don't know how hard it is to use or anything. Bear in mind, I have very little background in electronics. I'm hoping that the relatively simple schematic of the airplane will not be terribly difficult to model. David M. Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > At 03:38 AM 7/15/2011, you wrote: >> Another plug for MS Visio. Attached is a draft 'start circuit' I >> drew for >> myself a few months back. Outputing to PDF resized some of the >> lines, but >> Visio itself is great. > > I would encourage anyone who is willing to spend the > $time$ to become competent in any sort of illustration > software also take the time to become fluent in > the language of speaking and illustrating "electronese". > > If you look at any drawings produced in the 'Connection > or on aeroelectric.com, the diagrams speak to specific > connections of wires to terminals of devices, to wire > sizes, symbology to suggest type of terminals used, > internal functions of devices such as switches, relays, > contactors, motors, etc. The whole story on one page. > > VERY FEW professional illustrators of consumer > product wiring diagrams bother to offer such detail > in their work-product. Even folks who should know > better. I can't tell you how many no-value hours > I spent trying to find a truly descriptive schematic > of how the fuel selector valve and gage system worked > in my '87 GMC truck. All the schematics in 'official' > published documents showed "boxes" with colored wires > routing between them and no information what so ever > as to what goes on inside the boxes. Having finally > discovered what I needed to know, it made perfect > sense and I can now draw the schematic from memory, > not as an activity to mimic somebody else's drawings > but as a fundamental understanding of how the system > works. > > I'll suggest there are two aspects of creating really > useful drawings. The choice of illustration software > obviously drives the general appearance of the finished > drawings. But organization and completeness is entirely > up to the skills, willingness and experience of the > illustrator. > > Symbols for lucid production of schematics and diagrams > are the language of the discipline. Learn the symbols > too and use what ever illustrative tools to present > those symbols in a manner that makes understanding > 'jump off the page' into the mind of the competent > observer. These same drawings will provide a solid > foundation for sharing understanding for the not-so- > competent observer with a willingness and desire to > learn. > > Just a few more little lines in the published schematics > for my truck's fuel system would have completed the > story and saved a lot of wasted time. COMPLETE > schematics are the tools of both teaching how > something works but the tools of understanding > for how to fix the thing that doesn't work at > some later time. > > > Bob . . . > //// > (o o) > ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== > < Go ahead, make my day . . . > > < show me where I'm wrong. > > ================================ > > -- If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid of Soros. ...democracy and a republic can function only in a firm partnership with morality and religion. -- John Adams. Indeed. Same should be said for ANY type of gubmnt ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:08:02 PM PST US From: David Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Design Software Mostly, my purpose is to document my airplane wiring. If I can get analysis while I'm at it, I'm willing to learn to do so. Others have differing needs, of course. David M. b d wrote: > > 1. Are you looking for an active program like SPICE? (Simulated > analysis) > 2. Or a passive, flat program to show the electrical diagram? > 3. Or do you want to show the actual component layout on the > circuit board? > > > Sorry but I missed the beginning of the discussion. It sounds like you > have already bread-boarded and proven your circuit and are looking to > go from 2 to 3 for production. Is that correct? > > > On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 4:58 AM, ROGER & JEAN CURTIS > > > wrote: > > > > >I'd like to have a drawing system that is not a CAD system. I want > >to place a part with standardized icon, draw a line from there to > >the next part, and have the computer automagically arrange > >everything so that nothing overlaps and one can label the wires, > >etc. Don't know that it exists. Guess I'll have to write it > someday. > > > My suggestion is to download the FREE Express PCB > software > and give it a try. I find it to be rather easy to use and has > symbols with > it, that are easy to place and interconnect. > > So, give it a go. . . "Nothing ventured nothing lost" > > Roger > > > * > > > * -- If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid of Soros. ...democracy and a republic can function only in a firm partnership with morality and religion. -- John Adams. Indeed. Same should be said for ANY type of gubmnt ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:28 PM PST US From: David Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Design Software What I don't want is a lot of arcane commands to learn just to basically document my airplane's wiring. However, if I can also get circuit analysis (confirmation ) then I'm willing to learn some. I do not want another WordPerfect. David M. Noel Loveys wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > > Confusing... you say you do not want a CAD system then you describe CAD > system. > > Noel > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David > Sent: July 15, 2011 12:27 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Design Software > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: David > > Don't need a market. It would be just for me and whoever wants it. > > david > of the Gnu generation > > > Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >> >> >> At 08:11 PM 7/14/2011, you wrote: >> >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: David >>> >>> I'd like to have a drawing system that is not a CAD system. I want >>> to place a part with standardized icon, draw a line from there to the >>> next part, and have the computer automagically arrange everything so >>> that nothing overlaps and one can label the wires, etc. Don't know >>> that it exists. Guess I'll have to write it someday. >>> >> But who is your market? For most product development >> efforts the schematic is but an intermediate step >> between conception and production. Schematic generation >> programs with any degree of sophistication generate >> 'net lists' which are operated on to convert the schematic >> to an etched circuit board. Interestingly enough, these >> same schematics are often used to publish various >> service/training manuals. The net list generator couldn't >> care less whether the schematic is on one or 100 pages. >> But the poor tech trying to trace a circuit has to jump >> across pages with cryptic 'bus labels' to guide them. >> >> Some free schematic generation systems like Express PCB >> would probably come close to what you want to do but for >> a guy who grew up looking at ARRL schematics in the >> Handbook and QST magazine, symbology for most schematic >> generation programs seems pretty crude . . . but then >> the drawing of crystal clear diagrams is becoming a lost >> art form. >> >> So before you launch into what has to be a monumental >> programming and graphics effort, it could be well to >> make sure there's a market for your work-product. >> >> >> Bob . . . >> //// >> (o o) >> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== >> < Go ahead, make my day . . .> >> < show me where I'm wrong.> >> ================================ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -- If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid of Soros. ...democracy and a republic can function only in a firm partnership with morality and religion. -- John Adams. Indeed. Same should be said for ANY type of gubmnt ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:17 PM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Viking Engine I always enjoy reading OC's stuff. do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 07/15/2011 04:55 PM, b d wrote: > FO > > On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Richard Girard > wrote: > > Bruce, The discussion has been interesting to me, certainly more > than your rather rude comment. > > Rick Girard > > On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 11:40 AM, b d > wrote: > > WOW, was this spam helpful to anyone? Just curious . . . . > > > On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 4:37 AM, > wrote: > > > > > 7/15/2011 > > Congratulations Fellow Amateur Builders, > > Several years ago when I first began to read amateur builder > postings in > various venues I was dismayed and concerned about the > general lack of > knowledge regarding the fundamental rules governing our > community and the > casual attitude towards such rules. Postings consisting of > speculation, > hearsay, gossip, and rumors would go on at length about any > particular > subject with not one poster citing the fundamental document > governing the > subject or even hinting that such a document may even exist. > > What a change we have seen. While there was significant > thread creep on the > aeroelectric list away from Viking Engine(s) per se in this > thread several > posters got directly > into whatever side path may have been taken and provided > clarification by > stating outright, or provided links to, the facts contained > in the > controlling documents.** > > Demonstrating this knowlege, and a responsible attitude > towards the rules, > is very healthy for our amateur built community as aviation > is already seen > by the general public, with significant help from the lame > stream media, as > fraught with risky ventures and amateur builders ("nut case > builds airplane > in his grarage") as being probably totally irresponsible. > > Let's keep up the good work and help stamp out speculation, > hearsay, gossip, > and rumors as a means of communication (and confusion for > the new guys) when > the facts are usually readily available in this great day of > the internet. > > 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the > time and effort to > gather and understand knowledge." > > **PS: I am not suggesting that all of the controlling > documents (or the > bureaucrats that enforce them) are all wise and should be > followed > slavishly. I am suggestion that if one decides to deviate > from the rules > that the deviation be done with knowledge and deliberation > not out of > ignorance. > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > ====__==============================__= > -List" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/__Navigator?AeroElectric-List > ====__==============================__= > http://forums.matronics.com > ====__==============================__= > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/__contribution > ====__==============================__= > > > * > > ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > -- > Zulu Delta > Mk IIIC > Thanks, Homer GBYM > > It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be > unhappy. > - Groucho Marx > > > * > > ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:48 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: ELT antenna placement From: Paul Kuntz I'm installing a 121.5/406 MHz ELT in my homebuilt project. The installation instructions tell me to put the ELT whip antenna at least 3 feet from my VHF radio antenna. Is this really necessary? There is the possibility of manually activating the ELT in the air in the event of an emergency, while continuing to communicate with the VHF radio, but I'm thinking that the more likely scenarios will be to operate one or the other, but not both. That is, the ELT becomes a factor only in the case of a true emergency, in which case I would first squawk emergency and communicate the situation by VHF voice (flying the airplane first, of course). Then, activate the ELT (one button press) if a forced landing appears inevitable, but I'm probably done talking on the radio at that point. Is the concern simply the presence of another vertically oriented conductor in relatively close proximity to the antenna in use, thus influencing its performance? Even if both the ELT and the VHF radio are active at the same time, is 3 ft of separation important? At any rate, it would be more convenient from an installation perspective to put them closer together. Any advice? Thanks, Paul Kuntz ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.