Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:24 AM - Load Analysis Spread Sheet (mike)
2. 01:23 AM - Re: Load Analysis Spread Sheet (B Tomm)
3. 03:27 AM - Re: Load Analysis Spread Sheet (James Kilford)
4. 06:20 AM - Re: TXDR & Nav/Com light sensors (racerjerry)
5. 08:43 AM - Re: multiple shield ground wires (jayb)
6. 09:13 AM - Re: Drawing Z-13/20 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 09:16 AM - Re: Load Analysis Spread Sheet (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: multiple shield ground wires (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 10:30 AM - Re: Load Analysis Spread Sheet (Vern Little)
10. 12:38 PM - Re: Load Analysis Spread Sheet (Bill Watson)
11. 04:19 PM - Re: Load Analysis Spread Sheet (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Load Analysis Spread Sheet |
Kind of a beginner's question here. I am sure someone out there has a good
example of a Load Analysis, or perhaps something in visual basic, accounting
for varying power loads in their design? I am looking for a coherent graphic
of an electrical architecture that might be modifiable towards the design I
have in mind. Failing that does anyone have a laundry list of power
consumptions of representative airframe equipment found in light aircraft I
could use as a starting point? Just trying to save some re-invent the wheel
time.
Thanks in advance,
Message 2
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| Subject: | Load Analysis Spread Sheet |
Check this one out courtesy of Vertical Power.
http://www.verticalpower.com/docs/Device_Amps.pdf
Bevan
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mike
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:21 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Load Analysis Spread Sheet
Kind of a beginner's question here. I am sure someone out there has a good
example of a Load Analysis, or perhaps something in visual basic, accounting
for varying power loads in their design? I am looking for a coherent graphic
of an electrical architecture that might be modifiable towards the design I
have in mind. Failing that does anyone have a laundry list of power
consumptions of representative airframe equipment found in light aircraft I
could use as a starting point? Just trying to save some re-invent the wheel
time.
Thanks in advance,
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Load Analysis Spread Sheet |
Mike,
I found a useful exercise was to create a spreadsheet with columns for
various stages of flight (e.g. startup, taxi, climbout, cruise, descent,
etc.) and rows for the various items of equipment. Some basic formulas will
give you a precise understanding of the loads at different points, along
with a theoretical maximum.
You can further break this down so that the rows are grouped together in
"busses", e.g. main bus, endurance bus, to then determine other answers,
e.g. how long might your battery last if you're on your endurance bus
without an alternator.
I've a spreadsheet with all this on if you want it.
HTH
James
On 19 July 2011 08:20, mike <mskoehn@comcast.net> wrote:
> **
> Kind of a beginner's question here. I am sure someone out there has a good
> example of a Load Analysis, or perhaps something in visual basic, accounting
> for varying power loads in their design? I am looking for a coherent graphic
> of an electrical architecture that might be modifiable towards the design I
> have in mind. Failing that does anyone have a laundry list of power
> consumptions of representative airframe equipment found in light aircraft I
> could use as a starting point? Just trying to save some re-invent the wheel
> time.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: TXDR & Nav/Com light sensors |
I had the same symptoms. A flashlight shined directly on the photocell restored
everything to normal brightness. After many years, the photocell material apparently
oxidizes and disappears with age. If you have a smattering of electronics
knowledge and experience with a soldering iron, the photocell (V301) on
the KT-76A is not too difficult to replace as it is located off the main board
on a separate switch board assy. behind the front panel. GOOGLE part no. 134-05005-0002.
Mine cost me about $15 + shipping in 2006.
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=347022#347022
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: multiple shield ground wires |
I contacted the vendor and they stated that the diagram that showed shield grounds
on both ends was a typo. One end only. Glad I asked the question though as
there's always more to learn!
Cheers,
Jay
"Follow the instructions. Shields can be shield-only,
attach one end; or shield+purposful conductor, attach
both ends as prescribed."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=347043#347043
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Drawing Z-13/20 |
At 10:39 PM 7/18/2011, you wrote:
>Forget my question (if you haven=92t done so
>already) regarding why Z-13/20 went away with
>Revision 12 of AEC. I found my answer. I=92m
>getting this Matronics Email-Serve thing figured
>out (i.e. search ' Duh!). You must have the
>patience of Job, being asked the same question over and over.
It happens in every classroom semester after semester . . .
>
>That said, I did an analysis of Z-12, and it is
>quite similar to Z-13/20 with a few notable
>exceptions. I have a couple of questions and observations regarding Z-12.
>
>The field for both alternators is fed from the
>main bus. If the Aux alternator field was fed
>from the E-Bus, it would provide battery current
>should the Battery Contactor Fail (however
>unlikely), with no apparent downside to the
>overall design, other than the E-Bus alternate
>feed would need to be switched on. Am I reading
>this right, or is there more to it? This brings up a more basic question.
If the battery contactor fails -AND- you stall
the alternator -AND- assuming it won't come up
self-excited only -THEN- are you limited to what
runs off the e-bus from energy contained in a
well-maintained battery.
I'm told that belt driven alternators running at
10 KRPM will, for the most part, come up self
excited.
>
>What is the intended normal operating position
>of the E-Bus Alternate Feed Switch? It would
>seem that it could be operated in the =93On=94
>position (enabled to provide battery power
>=93when=94 the battery contactor fails) or Off
>position (requiring it to be turned on =93when=94 the contactor fails).
The original idea was to close the e-bus
alternate feed during pre-flight to test
the path (an perhaps get clearance delivery
and ATIS). Then leave it off for remainder
of flight.
>
>The Z-12 design powers both the main and E-Bus
>from both alternators. Does this assume the
>pilot will shed load (if necessary) from the
>main bus necessary to stay below the output of
>the backup alternator in order to save the
>battery, until those devices are required for approach and landing?
Correct. Z-12 was included in the Z-figures not
so much because it was recommended for new design.
It's an example of how the SD-20 can be added to
and existing Z-11 style system (typical of most
TC aircraft). Z-12 is installed in hundreds of
TC aircraft as a factory options or aftermarket
kit.
However, Z-12 is a perfectly practical way to integrate
the SD-20 into a single battery, two alternator system
whether by system upgrade or new construction. MUCH
preferred over the abortive Z-13/20. If one is inclined
to dual batteries, then Z-14 is a seamless way to
get the two alternators wired up.
>
>Bob, I=92m sure you know that when we ask these
>questions, it=92s because (hopefully) we are thinking, which is a good
thing.
Absolutely!
> I=92m sure you=92re beyond taking
> challenges/questioning of your designs
> personally. I for one really appreciate you
> taking the time to answer questions and being here to educate.
A recipe for success built from the minimum
numbers of simple-ideas defends itself. If
a recipe has errors of fact in logic or performance,
it needs to be fixed . . .
The teacher's worst nightmare is to discover a long
history of promoting a bad idea for lack of
study or errors in perception. Propagandists don't
concern themselves with such things.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Load Analysis Spread Sheet |
At 02:20 AM 7/19/2011, you wrote:
>Kind of a beginner's question here. I am sure someone out there has
>a good example of a Load Analysis, or perhaps something in visual
>basic, accounting for varying power loads in their design? I am
>looking for a coherent graphic of an electrical architecture that
>might be modifiable towards the design I have in mind. Failing that
>does anyone have a laundry list of power consumptions of
>representative airframe equipment found in light aircraft I could
>use as a starting point? Just trying to save some re-invent the wheel time.
Check out the downloads at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Load_Analysis/
If you're handy with Excel and really want a
self-calculating spread sheet, there are
a couple of examples. Others here on the List
no doubt have others to share.
If you're doing a study on a Beechjet, then
a spread-sheet is the only way to go. I suspect
that a simple pencil/paper/calculator apporach
is the fastest path to understanging by filling
our a form like
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Load_Analysis/Blank_Form.pdf
This is an adaptation of the forms we were
using on TC aircraft 60 years ago.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: multiple shield ground wires |
At 10:39 AM 7/19/2011, you wrote:
>
>I contacted the vendor and they stated that the diagram that showed
>shield grounds on both ends was a typo. One end only. Glad I asked
>the question though as there's always more to learn!
Any day you go to bed knowing something you did not
know that morning is a GOOD day. Any day you can
tap the sum of your knowledge and experience to
make the life of somebody else easier, it's a GREAT
day.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Load Analysis Spread Sheet |
Check www.verticalpower.com for their load planning spreadsheets.
-Vern
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Load Analysis Spread Sheet
At 02:20 AM 7/19/2011, you wrote:
Kind of a beginner's question here. I am sure someone out there has a
good example of a Load Analysis, or perhaps something in visual basic,
accounting for varying power loads in their design? I am looking for a
coherent graphic of an electrical architecture that might be modifiable
towards the design I have in mind. Failing that does anyone have a
laundry list of power consumptions of representative airframe equipment
found in light aircraft I could use as a starting point? Just trying to
save some re-invent the wheel time.
Check out the downloads at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Load_Analysis/
If you're handy with Excel and really want a
self-calculating spread sheet, there are
a couple of examples. Others here on the List
no doubt have others to share.
If you're doing a study on a Beechjet, then
a spread-sheet is the only way to go. I suspect
that a simple pencil/paper/calculator apporach
is the fastest path to understanging by filling
our a form like
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Load_Analysis/Blank_Form.pdf
This is an adaptation of the forms we were
using on TC aircraft 60 years ago.
Bob . . .
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Load Analysis Spread Sheet |
You are going thru the same process as all of us have. Look at
everything you can find, steal as much as can and along the way you'll
get you're head wrapped around it. My worksheet with load analysis is
attached.
I assume you are already familiar with Bob's Z-designs (a collection of
well vetted electrical architectures for our machines). Starting (and
staying) there is the way to avoid re-inventing any wheels. My version
of Bob's Z-14 is also attached.
On 7/19/2011 3:20 AM, mike wrote:
> Kind of a beginner's question here. I am sure someone out there has a
> good example of a Load Analysis, or perhaps something in visual basic,
> accounting for varying power loads in their design? I am looking for a
> coherent graphic of an electrical architecture that might be
> modifiable towards the design I have in mind. Failing that does anyone
> have a laundry list of power consumptions of representative airframe
> equipment found in light aircraft I could use as a starting point?
> Just trying to save some re-invent the wheel time.
> Thanks in advance,
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Load Analysis Spread Sheet |
At 02:32 PM 7/19/2011, you wrote:
>You are going thru the same process as all of us have. Look at
>everything you can find, steal as much as can and along the way
>you'll get you're head wrapped around it.
Agreed. Many builders start with a strong urge to "keep
everything running" in spite of inevitable failures of all kinds.
By inevitable failure I mean no piece of hardware on your
airplane has an infinite service life, nor are any components
immune to the effects of error in craftsmanship or degraded
performance due to misunderstanding or neglect. The short
version of this idea is "Things Break".
Suggest you review the article on Failure Modes Effects
analysis at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Failure%20Modes%20Effects%20Analysis.pdf
also chapter 17 in the 'Connection
Then figure out what you plan to do personally to
deal with the failure of any device or system in the
airplane. It's easy to spend hours, pounds and dollars
designing an electrical system that will keep every
device in the airplane POWERED while ignoring the
non-zero probability that that coveted system is not
immune from FAILURE.
I've mentioned many times here on this List that
my personal approach to flying airplanes (always
rental machines) is to be prepared to aviate and navigate
and navigate to airport of intended destination
in what I call "The J-3 Mode". Toward that end my
flight bag has always included . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Vacination_for_Dark_Panel_Syndrom.pdf
My goals for having confidence to operate my airplane-
of-the-day is predicated on the idea that at best I'll get
there as long as the engine runs and the flight
controls stay hooked up. At worst, I'll get an
adventure on some airport I never before intended
to visit.
For anyone setting out to configure their electrical
system, the first question is, "Can I operate this
airplane in the vast majority of anticipated missions
with the master switches OFF?"
If the answer to that is "yes", then I'll suggest
that your extra-ordinary needs for electrical energy
are small to zero. If "no", then what's the practical
solution to making sure the MINIMAL compliment of
additional hardware is powered up for longer than
you have fuel to keep the engine running?
Start with solving that problem first. What is your
MINIMALIST plan and skill set for comfortable
termination of flight and figure the energy budget
for delivering to that plan?
If any of those equipment items are necessary for
keeping the engine running they should be powered from
a battery bus. In other words, if you've got
smoke in the cockpit, you should be able to
turn the master switch OFF and STILL continue
to airport of intended destination.
After conducting this exercise, then figure out
how many more electro-whizzies you'd like to
have running, not for necessity but for convenience.
Any airplane can be successfully operated to a
comfortable arrival with ZERO engine instrumentation
. . . if you want to take the time to learn how
to do it. An airplane can be successfully navigated
with ZERO panel mounted nav-aids. Communication is
a driving consideration only during the approach to
landing phase and this can be done with a hand-held.
After figuring out how you will achieve this level
of confidence and competence with the manner in which
you intend to use your airplane, then decide what
your dollar, weight and volume budget is for adding
more "stuff".
This exercise goes to two important points. Only
a tiny fraction of unhappy days in the cockpit have
roots in electrical system failures. The vast majority
of unhappy days in the cockpit have roots in poor
piloting skills usually combined with poor decision
making processes in dealing with what should be
a no-big deal failure.
If things didn't break on airplanes, FBO's would be
out of business. Only YOU can make sure the majority
if not all of your failures are a maintenance event
as opposed to an emergency arising from lack of
skill/planning.
After this thought exercise you are now properly informed
to carry out a load analysis that will drive architecture,
weight, system complexity, and cost of ownership.
The short review for all the above is, "Please disabuse
yourself of the notion that backups to backups is
any sort of replacement for understanding your machine,
it's limitations and your own limitations. Tony Levier
in a '60 model C-172 is a lot less likely to suffer
a bad day in the cockpit than most of today's pilots
buying a Malibu or A-36 with all the goodies.
Some of my most enjoyable cross countries were conducted
in the J-3 mode. Go down low, get out the maps, punch
up a destination on the $100 hand held GPS and shut all
the rest of that stuff off. If you can do it for fun, you
can do it when conditions demand it.
Bob . . .
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