---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/16/11: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:25 AM - Re: Will servo run to outer position if PWM signal is missing? (zwakie) 2. 10:42 AM - 24 VDC to 20 VDC power supply/converter () 3. 11:40 AM - Re: 24 VDC to 20 VDC power supply/converter (Jared Yates) 4. 11:57 AM - Re: 24 VDC to 20 VDC power supply/converter (BobsV35B@aol.com) 5. 12:05 PM - Splicing Into Existing GPS Serial (Sean Stephens) 6. 12:08 PM - Re: 24 VDC to 20 VDC power supply/converter (Fisher Paul A.) 7. 12:22 PM - Re: 24 VDC to 20 VDC power supply/converter () 8. 12:24 PM - Re: 24 VDC to 20 VDC power supply/converter () 9. 01:01 PM - Re: 24 VDC to 20 VDC power supply/converter (Jared Yates) 10. 01:43 PM - Re: Splicing Into Existing GPS Serial (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 04:51 PM - OT: E 6000 on plexi (rayj) 12. 05:28 PM - Re: E6000 on plexi (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 05:30 PM - RG142 coax offer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 07:35 PM - Navaid Servo (DEAN PSIROPOULOS) 15. 10:53 PM - Re: battery charger (James Robinson) 16. 10:58 PM - Re: Navaid Servo (Ed Holyoke) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:26 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Will servo run to outer position if PWM signal is missing? From: "zwakie" Thanks Ed for your answer and questions. I am indeed using a Navaid servo. It gives me full aileron deflection in every situation, with and without tracking a flightplan, with and without following a heading, in the ground and in the air. As soon as the servo receives power it will give me full left aileron, no matter the situation and configuration of the head. I can think of two things causing this: (1) servo zero position sits outside the zone of travel, or (2) PWM signal not reaching the servo, e.g. broken a broken wire that carries the PWM signal. First scenario seems unlikely to me, because from a safety point of view I cannot believe the design would allow it to change from the set point. I am not trusting this assumption to be 100% true, so can't rule this option out. Second scenario is the one that I have no clue about, because I lack the technical knowledge. Hence my question whether it would be technically possible that the servo runs to an outer position if the PWM signal is missing. Because the servo sits under the passenger seat in a very confined area, before starting the juggle to remove the servo, I would like to know what happens if the PWM signal is missing (I guess I can run a parallel wire with the PWM signal to the servo, that at least would tell me that the servo indeed receices the signal, right?) -------- Marcel (Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW - formerly G-BWON) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349604#349604 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:50 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: 24 VDC to 20 VDC power supply/converter Hi all, We need to power a Lenovo X60 tablet with charts in a certified aircraft with 24 VDC el. system. The 110 VAC OEM power supply calls for 20 VDC, 3.25 A output (65 W). We ordered from a web site a power supply that was listed as 12-14 VDC input (besides worldwide AC voltage), but received a product able to handle only 9-15 VDC input, with no further help from the merchant (dinodirect.com). An internet search for the right power supply turned up unsuccessful. Can anyone direct me to a source or suggest a different solution? Rumen ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:40:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 24 VDC to 20 VDC power supply/converter From: Jared Yates Try these folks: http://www.igo.com/ Some of their power supplies are designed to handle the old jacks on airliners, which I think were 24v. On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:37 PM, wrote: > > Hi all, > > We need to power a Lenovo X60 tablet with charts in a certified aircraft > with 24 VDC el. system. The 110 VAC OEM power supply calls for 20 VDC, 3.25 > A output (65 W). > > We ordered from a web site a power supply that was listed as 12-14 VDC > input (besides worldwide AC voltage), but received a product able to handle > only 9-15 VDC input, with no further help from the merchant ( > dinodirect.com). An internet search for the right power supply turned up > unsuccessful. > > Can anyone direct me to a source or suggest a different solution? > > Rumen > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:57:37 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 24 VDC to 20 VDC power supply/converter Good Afternoon Jared, Not sure about other airlines, but the power plugs for passenger use were set to supply 16 volts! The idea was that they were not convenient to use for anything other than the computers of the day. Many things have changed since I became unemployed and that may be one of them. Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 8/16/2011 1:41:11 P.M. Central Daylight Time, email@jaredyates.com writes: Try these folks: _http://www.igo.com/_ (http://www.igo.com/) Some of their power supplies are designed to handle the old jacks on airliners, which I think were 24v. On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:37 PM, <_rd2@dejazzd.com_ (mailto:rd2@dejazzd.com) > wrote: (mailto:rd2@dejazzd.com) > Hi all, We need to power a Lenovo X60 tablet with charts in a certified aircraft with 24 VDC el. system. The 110 VAC OEM power supply calls for 20 VDC, 3.25 A output (65 W). We ordered from a web site a power supply that was listed as 12-14 VDC input (besides worldwide AC voltage), but received a product able to handle only 9-15 VDC input, with no further help from the merchant (_dinodirect.com_ (http://dinodirect.com/) ). An internet search for the right power supply turned up unsuccessful. Can anyone direct me to a source or suggest a different solution? Rumen ========== -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:05:38 PM PST US From: Sean Stephens Subject: AeroElectric-List: Splicing Into Existing GPS Serial I have the need to splice into an existing GPS Serial Out wire on my 430W to facilitate a run to the new ACK E-04 GPS Serial In. I've read the Aeroelectric article on solder lap splices here: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Solder_Lap_Splicing/Solder_Lap_Splices.html. I am wondering if a similar technique can be used when you don't have two "free ends". Is it ok to strip a .3" section of the existing wire and then lap solder the new splice wire to it following the above technique? If so, what it the best way to cover the lap splice as heat shrink could not be placed around the existing wire run in this case? Silicon tape or something? ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:15 PM PST US From: "Fisher Paul A." Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 24 VDC to 20 VDC power supply/converter Couldn't you use something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Power-Bright-ML400-24-Watt-Inverter/dp/B000NP0MXC and the normal AC power adapter for the laptop? Im sure there is a more elegant solution, but for $38USD this seems pretty easy. - Paul -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rd2@dejazzd.com Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:37 Subject: AeroElectric-List: 24 VDC to 20 VDC power supply/converter Hi all, We need to power a Lenovo X60 tablet with charts in a certified aircraft with 24 VDC el. system. The 110 VAC OEM power supply calls for 20 VDC, 3.25 A output (65 W). We ordered from a web site a power supply that was listed as 12-14 VDC input (besides worldwide AC voltage), but received a product able to handle only 9-15 VDC input, with no further help from the merchant (dinodirect.com). An internet search for the right power supply turned up unsuccessful. Can anyone direct me to a source or suggest a different solution? Rumen ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:27 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 24 VDC to 20 VDC power supply/converter Thanks, Paul - this one I already have, but trying to minimize inefficiencies by multi-converting and reduce the number of boxes in a crammed space :) Rumen do not archive ---- "Fisher Paul A." wrote: > > Couldn't you use something like this: > http://www.amazon.com/Power-Bright-ML400-24-Watt-Inverter/dp/B000NP0MXC > > and the normal AC power adapter for the laptop? Im sure there is a more elegant solution, but for $38USD this seems pretty easy. > > - Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rd2@dejazzd.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:37 > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: 24 VDC to 20 VDC power supply/converter > > > Hi all, > > We need to power a Lenovo X60 tablet with charts in a certified aircraft with 24 VDC el. system. The 110 VAC OEM power supply calls for 20 VDC, 3.25 A output (65 W). > > We ordered from a web site a power supply that was listed as 12-14 VDC input (besides worldwide AC voltage), but received a product able to handle only 9-15 VDC input, with no further help from the merchant (dinodirect.com). An internet search for the right power supply turned up unsuccessful. > > Can anyone direct me to a source or suggest a different solution? > > Rumen > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:24:39 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 24 VDC to 20 VDC power supply/converter Bob, Jared, tx for replying. No luck with igo.com. Rumen do not archive ---- BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: > Good Afternoon Jared, > > Not sure about other airlines, but the power plugs for passenger use were > set to supply 16 volts! The idea was that they were not convenient to use > for anything other than the computers of the day. Many things have changed > since I became unemployed and that may be one of them. > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > > > In a message dated 8/16/2011 1:41:11 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > email@jaredyates.com writes: > > Try these folks: > > > _http://www.igo.com/_ (http://www.igo.com/) > > > Some of their power supplies are designed to handle the old jacks on > airliners, which I think were 24v. > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:37 PM, <_rd2@dejazzd.com_ > (mailto:rd2@dejazzd.com) > wrote: > > (mailto:rd2@dejazzd.com) > > > Hi all, > > We need to power a Lenovo X60 tablet with charts in a certified aircraft > with 24 VDC el. system. The 110 VAC OEM power supply calls for 20 VDC, 3.25 > A output (65 W). > > We ordered from a web site a power supply that was listed as 12-14 VDC > input (besides worldwide AC voltage), but received a product able to handle > only 9-15 VDC input, with no further help from the merchant (_dinodirect.com_ > (http://dinodirect.com/) ). An internet search for the right power supply > turned up unsuccessful. > > Can anyone direct me to a source or suggest a different solution? > > Rumen > > > ========== > -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > > > > > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > > > > (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List) > (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:01:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 24 VDC to 20 VDC power supply/converter From: Jared Yates It looks like I was wrong about that, the igo lists 16v as the max input voltage in DC mode. That must be what I was thinking of. On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:21 PM, wrote: > > Bob, Jared, tx for replying. > No luck with igo.com. > Rumen > do not archive > > ---- BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: > > Good Afternoon Jared, > > > > Not sure about other airlines, but the power plugs for passenger use were > > set to supply 16 volts! The idea was that they were not convenient to use > > for anything other than the computers of the day. Many things have > changed > > since I became unemployed and that may be one of them. > > > > Happy Skies, > > > > Old Bob > > > > > > In a message dated 8/16/2011 1:41:11 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > > email@jaredyates.com writes: > > > > Try these folks: > > > > > > _http://www.igo.com/_ (http://www.igo.com/) > > > > > > Some of their power supplies are designed to handle the old jacks on > > airliners, which I think were 24v. > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:37 PM, <_rd2@dejazzd.com_ > > (mailto:rd2@dejazzd.com) > wrote: > > > > (mailto:rd2@dejazzd.com) > > > > > Hi all, > > > > We need to power a Lenovo X60 tablet with charts in a certified aircraft > > with 24 VDC el. system. The 110 VAC OEM power supply calls for 20 VDC, > 3.25 > > A output (65 W). > > > > We ordered from a web site a power supply that was listed as 12-14 VDC > > input (besides worldwide AC voltage), but received a product able to > handle > > only 9-15 VDC input, with no further help from the merchant > (_dinodirect.com_ > > (http://dinodirect.com/) ). An internet search for the right power > supply > > turned up unsuccessful. > > > > Can anyone direct me to a source or suggest a different solution? > > > > Rumen > > > > > > ========== > > -List" target="_blank"> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > > > > > > > > > > > ========== > > http://forums.matronics.com > > ========== > > le, List Admin. > > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ========== > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List) > > (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:11 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Splicing Into Existing GPS Serial At 02:02 PM 8/16/2011, you wrote: > > >I have the need to splice into an existing GPS Serial Out wire on my >430W to facilitate a run to the new ACK E-04 GPS Serial In. I've >read the Aeroelectric article on solder lap splices here: >http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Solder_Lap_Splicing/Solder_Lap_Splices.html. > >I am wondering if a similar technique can be used when you don't >have two "free ends". Is it ok to strip a .3" section of the >existing wire and then lap solder the new splice wire to it >following the above technique? If so, what it the best way to cover >the lap splice as heat shrink could not be placed around the >existing wire run in this case? >Silicon tape or something? some kind of tape would work. I think I'd cut the existing cable so that you could handle the junction as three wires take advantage of the neater outcome for using heat shrink. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:40 PM PST US From: rayj Subject: AeroElectric-List: OT: E 6000 on plexi Greetings listers, Has anyone used E 6000 on plexiglass? I'm wondering if the solvent will cause any damage or crazing to the plastic. Thanks in advance to any info. do not archive -- Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:43 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: E6000 on plexi At 06:47 PM 8/16/2011, you wrote: > >Greetings listers, > >Has anyone used E 6000 on plexiglass? I'm wondering if the solvent >will cause any damage or crazing to the plastic. > >Thanks in advance to any info. There are several versions of E6000 . . . one is flammable, the other is not. What's your proposed application? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:46 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RG142 coax offer I've spent some time today sorting through about #40 pounds of RG-142 coax cable assemblies. I've updated the coax assembly offer on the website to include a wider range of no-extra-charge- connectors. I've also listed a no-connectors segment, 11+ feet long for $10.00. That's less than $1.00/ft for "the good stuff". Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:56 PM PST US From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Navaid Servo Marcel: Are you using the Navaid control head with it and do you have your servo set up correctly on the ground. Using the Navaid control head requires manual adjustments (as opposed to electronic)and set up tasks. Check the manual for servo and control head adjustments and read and re-read it carefully. I had some confusion about some of the tasks that were best clarified by someone familiar with the system. Unfortunately Navaid no longer exists but there are still many folks who have them in their aircraft so you may be in luck. Before I finished my panel Trio Avionics had come out with a new digital control head that worked with the three wire Navaid servo so I ditched the old analog Navaid control head for an EZ Pilot (cost almost as much for the control head as the entire Navaid system but definitely worth it). I have everything set up and working properly on the ground but still experience a slight problem with my Navaid servo. When I engage the servo in flight I get an initial one-time excursion to the left (left wing down ~20 degrees) before things settle out and start working properly. Before I started using my EZ Pilot Chuck, at Trio Avionics, suggested I send in my Navaid servo for a tune up. I did that and, for a very reasonable fee, Trio performed some magic that cleaned up the slop in the mechanicals of the servo. However, when they tested the servo they found a common problem in the electronics. In talking with Chuck he mentioned one of the components, a diode if I recall correctly, can sometimes cause the excursion that I experience. Unfortunately he couldn't fix it. Which brings me to a question I have for the list....does anyone know who made the Navaid servos and are there any drawings/specs/schematics available for it? Is there anyone or any company that still makes or repairs these servos? If so please let us know, the servos are pretty rugged but they don't last forever and I would like to get rid of the excursion in mine. Thanks Dean RV-6A N197DM Flying since 2008 ------------Original Message ------------- Subject: Will servo run to outer position if PWM signal is missing? From: "zwakie" I am trying to troubleshoot an issue with my Navaid servo. Immediately upon engaging the servo, it will run the aileron to full left. I was wondering if this could be caused by the PWM signal missing, f.i. because of a broken wire. Can anybody enlighten this knows-nothing-about-electrics guy please? Marcel (Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW - formerly G-BWON) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:19 PM PST US From: James Robinson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: battery charger Hi Bob=0AI was looking for the info on the battery chargers and I must not have saved it.- It seems you recommended one available from WalMart that was a good value=0AJim=0A-=0AJames Robinson=0AGlasair lll N79R=0ASpanish Fork UT U77=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "Robert L. N uckolls, III" =0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matro nics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 5:27 PM=0ASubject: AeroElectric-L L. Nuckolls, III" =0A=0AI've spent some tim e today sorting through about #40 pounds=0Aof RG-142 coax cable assemblies. I've updated the coax assembly=0Aoffer on the website to include a wider r ange of no-extra-charge-=0Aconnectors.=0A=0AI've also listed a no-connector s segment, 11+ feet long for=0A$10.00.=0A=0AThat's less than $1.00/ft for " =- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle ======== ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:08 PM PST US From: Ed Holyoke Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Navaid Servo Howdy Dean, I've got the same setup in my 6A and experienced the same excursion. I reset some of the parameters in the Trio and it mostly went away. Been a long time and I don't remember exactly what it was, but it seems like there was a couple of settings for activity and sensitivity. Anyway, I tweaked it a couple of times and test flew it a couple of times and cleared it up. If I engage the servo to track to a waypoint, it still does a small excursion and then lines up. I think it has something to do with the sensitivity. Even if you are close to the centerline of the course, it does a large correction to get you exactly on the centerline and, naturally, overshoots. I usually just set it to heading mode while I'm pointed the right direction and engage the servo. It doesn't do any initial roll when I do it that way. It once got very weird and tried to turn the airplane upside down when I engaged it. I had to re-install the firmware to get it straight. The guys at Trio said that it happens, rarely. Apparently it has to do with shutting the power off at the exact millisecond that it is writing parameters to memory and it gets corrupted. Always a good idea to do a test engagement in good visibility before you count on it in the clouds. Marcel, Dean is right about the manual setup on the Navaid. It's been a long time since I messed with it, so I can't be very specific about the procedure. You really need the manual. Do you have it? You also have to verify that the wires don't need to be reversed. If I understand it right, the servo doesn't sense arm position. Everything comes from the head, so if the head thinks that it is turning, it will command full opposite aileron until it thinks that it is level. So if there is no roll, or roll in the wrong direction, the head will go right on commanding roll. I don't know for sure, but I don't think that the head is putting out the pwm signal that you think it should. I believe that it basically just runs the servo motorone direction or the other until it thinks the airplane is wings level and/or tracking the nav source.If the initial setup isn't done right, it will act just as you are experiencing. Pax, Ed Holyoke On 8/16/2011 7:28 PM, DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" > > > Marcel: > > Are you using the Navaid control head with it and do you have your servo set > up correctly on the ground. Using the Navaid control head requires manual > adjustments (as opposed to electronic)and set up tasks. Check the manual for > servo and control head adjustments and read and re-read it carefully. I had > some confusion about some of the tasks that were best clarified by someone > familiar with the system. Unfortunately Navaid no longer exists but there > are still many folks who have them in their aircraft so you may be in luck. > > Before I finished my panel Trio Avionics had come out with a new digital > control head that worked with the three wire Navaid servo so I ditched the > old analog Navaid control head for an EZ Pilot (cost almost as much for the > control head as the entire Navaid system but definitely worth it). I have > everything set up and working properly on the ground but still experience a > slight problem with my Navaid servo. When I engage the servo in flight I > get an initial one-time excursion to the left (left wing down ~20 degrees) > before things settle out and start working properly. > > Before I started using my EZ Pilot Chuck, at Trio Avionics, suggested I send > in my Navaid servo for a tune up. I did that and, for a very reasonable fee, > Trio performed some magic that cleaned up the slop in the mechanicals of the > servo. However, when they tested the servo they found a common problem in > the electronics. In talking with Chuck he mentioned one of the components, > a diode if I recall correctly, can sometimes cause the excursion that I > experience. Unfortunately he couldn't fix it. > > Which brings me to a question I have for the list....does anyone know who > made the Navaid servos and are there any drawings/specs/schematics available > for it? Is there anyone or any company that still makes or repairs these > servos? If so please let us know, the servos are pretty rugged but they > don't last forever and I would like to get rid of the excursion in mine. > Thanks > > Dean > RV-6A N197DM > Flying since 2008 > > > ------------Original Message ------------- > > Subject: Will servo run to outer position if PWM signal is missing? > From: "zwakie" > > I am trying to troubleshoot an issue with my Navaid servo. Immediately upon > engaging the servo, it will run the aileron to full left. I was wondering if > this could be caused by the PWM signal missing, f.i. because of a broken > wire. Can anybody enlighten this knows-nothing-about-electrics guy please? > > Marcel > (Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW - formerly G-BWON) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.