Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:14 AM - Re: Re: Initial experience with dual Odyssey PC680s powering RV-10 w (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 04:22 AM - Re: Re: Initial experience with dual Odyssey PC680s powering RV-10 w (Bill Watson)
3. 06:55 AM - Re: Re: Initial experience with dual Odyssey PC680s powering RV-10 w (paul wilson)
4. 12:25 PM - Re: Initial experience with dual Odyssey PC680s powering RV-10 w (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 12:55 PM - Re: Radio receiver burn out (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Initial experience with dual Odyssey PC680s |
powering RV-10 w
At 08:49 PM 9/7/2011, you wrote:
>That's exactly what I was trying to say. From what I'm beginning to
>understand, it's bad for the batteries. I'm not using any kind of
>power supply other than the 2 batteries hooked to a 'trickle'
>charger. Bad stuff.
Yeah . . . while the little charger/maintainer will eventually
top-off the battery it's connected to, using that battery to
'run things' puts what we call a deep cycle on it. You can
buy batteries optimized for deep-cycle service like trolling
motors, mobility carts, etc. But the Odyssey is not well disposed
to living this kind of life.
Even in our cars, the battery is taxed only a few seconds each
start-run cycle to get an engine started whereupon it's quickly
recharged. All batteries are good for hundreds to thousands
of such cycles where each discharge event uses a few percent
off the top.
But taking a battery down below 75% or so is a deep cycle
that has an effect on service life. If you've been using
the batteries like this for some time, it would account for
their relatively soggy condition.
When your choice of batteries comes with a premium price,
it seems practical to consider some sort of ac mains driven
ground power device for extended ground ops.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Initial experience with dual Odyssey PC680s |
powering RV-10 w
So going back throught the archives, it seems like my charging setup
would serve as a good ground power unit if the charger were upgraded
from a 2 amp "maintainer" type to a 10 amp "smart" charger like the X10
Schumacher I recently picked up from Walmart. It would power all or
most of my panel setup and practice work, prevent the batteries from
getting deep discharged, and bring them up to full charge pretty quickly
once the load was removed.
Assuming that's right, the problem I'm having right now is that the
Schumacher doesn't seem to like to be connected to both batteries
simultaneously. It goes into some kind of blinking fault mode. Any
thought?
(I'm going to check the model number again but recall "X10")
Bill
On 9/8/2011 6:09 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 08:49 PM 9/7/2011, you wrote:
>> That's exactly what I was trying to say. From what I'm beginning to
>> understand, it's bad for the batteries. I'm not using any kind of
>> power supply other than the 2 batteries hooked to a 'trickle'
>> charger. Bad stuff.
>
> Yeah . . . while the little charger/maintainer will eventually
> top-off the battery it's connected to, using that battery to
> 'run things' puts what we call a deep cycle on it. You can
> buy batteries optimized for deep-cycle service like trolling
> motors, mobility carts, etc. But the Odyssey is not well disposed
> to living this kind of life.
>
> Even in our cars, the battery is taxed only a few seconds each
> start-run cycle to get an engine started whereupon it's quickly
> recharged. All batteries are good for hundreds to thousands
> of such cycles where each discharge event uses a few percent
> off the top.
>
> But taking a battery down below 75% or so is a deep cycle
> that has an effect on service life. If you've been using
> the batteries like this for some time, it would account for
> their relatively soggy condition.
>
> When your choice of batteries comes with a premium price,
> it seems practical to consider some sort of ac mains driven
> ground power device for extended ground ops.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Initial experience with dual Odyssey PC680s |
powering RV-10 w
Bill,
If one puts a dead/low batt in the bunch then the Shumaker 1 or 1.5a
maintainer will always will go into fault mode. Separate the batts
and put a little load on them all and then charge the low one with a
2amp charger (not a maintainer) then start over with the maintainer
and all the batts in parallel.
For your newer 2/10a charger then it probably wont charge a low batt.
In that case charge 2 batts in parallel and that should overcome the
smart circuit in the newer chargers. My vintage chargers have no
smarts and will attempt to charge a dead battery. Not good for the charger.
Some times a low batt has to be charged at the 10a setting, but you
still have to overcome the smart circuit in the later model chargers.
Use the 2a setting before trying the 10a.
I have a large fleet of vehicles and shure enough it comes with lots
of batt experience.
Bottom line is one of your batts is quite discharged.
PaulW
=============
At 07:49 PM 9/7/2011, Bill Watson wrote:
>That's exactly what I was trying to say. From what I'm beginning to
>understand, it's bad for the batteries. I'm not using any kind of
>power supply other than the 2 batteries hooked to a 'trickle'
>charger. Bad stuff.
>
>I'm still into a lot of panel configuration work and I'm still
>depending on the flight batteries for that work. Now that I'm
>flying, it's probably not so damaging.
>
>I thought that hooking up the 10 amp Schumacher charger to my 2
>batteries during this work might be a viable solution. But it
>appears that the Schumacher has enough 'smarts' to see that there
>are 2 batteries involved and it goes into error mode for some reason.
>
>Bill "now that the weather has cleared, we're going back to flying" Watson
>
>On 9/7/2011 8:35 PM, Timothy Farrell wrote:
>>Bill,
>>
>>This particular comment got my attention:
>>
>>
>>
>>"That combined with the fact that almost every flight is
>> followed by much battery draining panel work followed by charging."
>>
>>
>>I recall recently reading that draining the power of the Odyssey
>>batteries by doing service items such as long database upgrades and
>>gear swings is particularly bad for them. I don't know how much
>>panel work you got into, but it is possible that there was some
>>damage caused this way by not using an APU.
>>
>>
>>-Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Initial experience with dual Odyssey PC680s powering |
RV-10 w
At 06:18 AM 9/8/2011, you wrote:
So going back through the archives, it seems like my charging setup
would serve as a good ground power unit if the charger were upgraded
from a 2 amp "maintainer" type to a 10 amp "smart" charger like the
X10 Schumacher I recently picked up from Walmart.
Maybe. If the charger is no noisier than an alternator,
this might be useful.
It would power all or most of my panel setup and practice work,
prevent the batteries from getting deep discharged, and bring them up
to full charge pretty quickly once the load was removed.
Assuming that's right, the problem I'm having right now is that the
Schumacher doesn't seem to like to be connected to both batteries
simultaneously. It goes into some kind of blinking fault mode. Any thought?
(I'm going to check the model number again but recall "X10")
How are you connecting 2 batteries in parallel?
If it's Z-14 with all three contactors closed,
keep in mind that three contactors will waste about
2.5 amps of your charger/power-supply output.
If the charger is barfing . . . check the open-circuit
voltage of each battery while not connected to anything.
Most modern chargers will have an automatic rejection
feature for connecting to a badly discharged battery.
If either or both of the batteries is below 11 volts,
then they contain less than 5% of capable capacity.
A short term connection with a BEEFY charging source
might pump them up enough to allow a finish charge with
the automatic charger.
I've often used jumper cables to put a really dead battery
across a vehicle battery with the engine running. A couple
minutes is enough . . . then move it to the bench for
automatic charging.
Understand that TIME any battery spends in the lower regions
of rated capacity eats away at the battery's vital chemistry.
Batteries in normal service will last many years. But they
are similar to house plants. They will recover from a pretty
severe case of droopy leaves if you address the shortage of
water soon and in adequate quantity. Delay beyond a point
where living cells die off, and total recovery is impossible.
Continued performance is degraded if not terminated.
Visualize your battery as 6-cells rated at about 2.2
volts each . . . wired in series to form a "12-volt"
battery. Each cell is comprised of millions of micro-cells.
All are in parallel, each has a very high source impedance
(perhaps 1000 ohms), each contributes a tiny portion of
total capacity to store energy. Allow the battery to set
in a depleted or semi-depleted state and there is risk
for loosing a percentage of micro-cells. If you loose 1/2
of them, capacity drops by half and source impedance doubles.
This makes for a VERY soggy battery. For most purposes
in aviation, such a battery is no longer serviceable . . .
even if you manage to crank an engine with it.
There are many products that claim to 'recover' worn
out or abused batteries. Do a Google on "battery desulfator"
and you'll get thousands of hits. Check out the Concorde Battery
website for this document.
http://www.concordebattery.com/otherpdf/5-0171.pdf
On page 106 you will find a "conditioning charge"
procedure. This is a real sledge hammer approach that
has a limited value in recovering some batteries that
do not test strong enough for return to service.
I've seen similar procedures called out in countless
maintenance manuals. It's not a sure bet but it's
the most promising in this world of TV Infomercials
that offer, "the world's greatest battery charger and
recovery system."
The production lines at Beech are fitted with "trash
batteries" on little carts that are connected into
the airplane and then supported by a ground power cart.
The ship's flight battery doesn't get connected until
the airplane is out the door.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Radio receiver burn out |
At 01:02 PM 8/27/2011, you wrote:
>
>While flying the other day my radio stopped receiving but would
>transmit ok. I sent it to the factory and they said the the radio
>looked like the antenna had a lighting strike because it was
>extremely fried inside.
> I had no strike and have never flown in bad weather.
> What could cause this?
That's a real mystery . . .
> Hear are some other observations
>
> 1) When my strobe is on when it flashes my amp meter discharges
> with each flash.
'Discharges' or just wiggles? It is not uncommon
for the ammeter to show some response to cyclic
current draw to the system.
> 2) When I taxi past the antenna for the field I can hear the
> field identifer in the headset but I am not on the frequency?
This might be leaking into your audio system. As
I write these words, I can reach up and touch the
volume control knob of my amplified computer speakers
and hear the broadcast material from a 5KW radio station
less than a mile away. My fingers provide extra "antenna"
for conducting an interference into the audio system.
I suspect that your proximity to a strong signal triggers
the transient interference event.
Bob . . .
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