AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sat 09/10/11


Total Messages Posted: 14



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:09 AM - Re: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure mode (Andrew Zachar)
     2. 06:55 AM - Transponder troubles (Kelly McMullen)
     3. 07:38 AM - Re: Transponder troubles (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     4. 07:38 AM - Re: Transponder troubles (Ed Gilroy)
     5. 09:10 AM - Re: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure mode (B Tomm)
     6. 09:19 AM - Re: Avionics-List: Transponder troubles (George Steube)
     7. 09:22 AM - Re: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure mode (Vern Little)
     8. 09:24 AM - Re: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure mode (Vern Little)
     9. 09:46 AM - Re: Transponder troubles (David)
    10. 10:24 AM - Re: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure mode (Eric M. Jones)
    11. 10:49 AM - Re: Avionics-List: Transponder troubles (Charlie England)
    12. 10:49 AM - Re: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure mode (David Lloyd)
    13. 02:26 PM - Re: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure mode (Eric M. Jones)
    14. 02:51 PM - Re: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure mode (B Tomm)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:09:15 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure
    mode
    From: Andrew Zachar <andrew.d.zachar@gmail.com>
    Awhile back, I did a post about this exact modification. http://n999za.com/2010/11/07/hacking-the-wig-wag-flasher/ Of course, I was only successful because if this list's gracious help and advice. Hoping the pictures assist the discussion... __ Andrew Zachar andrew.d.zachar@gmail.com On Sep 9, 2011, at 10:57 PM, "Vern Little" <sprocket@vx-aviation.com> wrote: > > I used inrush current limiters on my halogens (450+ hours so far). Since this also causes the lamps to take more time to reach full brightness, I modified the B&C flasher to slow it down by doubling the capacitance of the electrolytic capacitor inside the can. Double the resistor value would also work. > > V > > > -----Original Message----- From: David Lloyd > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 5:47 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure mode > > > Bob, > I think that you are totally correct concerning the thermo rapid cycle being > the stress failure mode. > > When viewing the filaments with a mag. lens they look completely normal and > intact until you look carefully at one end of the filament. They are broken > at the very end. > > Odd that I have not run into others that are having the same problem as > these bulbs are used in a lot of recognition applications. > > I suspect that if I left them ON continually, they would last a normal life. > And, as you outline, in PULSE mode the thermo aspect is too much stress. I > wonder now, if there is a heavy duty version of this bulb with bullet proof > filament structure. > > I am installing new bulbs when delivered and will report back when I have a > similar failure. Hopefully, I may have learned more. > Thanks, David > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 4:15 PM > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag > circuitry....failure mode > > >> >> I have H7604 lamps in my wing tips that aid landing and traffic recognition. They are controlled by a solid state switcher that is either OFF-ON-PULSED. ( I do not know the turn-on ramp characteristics..) >> >> They fail in less than 10 hrs of operation. Interesting both seem to fail nearly at the same time. The "pulse" mode for traffic recognition is the major use. >> >> My ignorant guess is that halogen bulbs do not like to be pulsed or ramped up too quickly during pulse mode. If the rapid power ramp up is the primary cause, I am wondering if an appropriate choke (induction) would slow that ramping down and return normal life to these devices. >> >> If I were to do a WAG . . . I'm guessing that you're >> getting repetitive stress cracks in the filaments. >> These things operate somewhat hotter than their older >> cousins . . . most seem to have heavier filaments too. >> >> There are two things that erode filament integrity . . . >> evaporation (total operating hours issue) and stress >> cracks (combination of vibration and temperature cycling). >> I'm wondering if the halogens are not more highly stressed >> during each illumination cycle. Since a wig-wag operates >> on the order of 2 flashes per second, 10 hours of flashing >> would offer 72,000 or so temperature cycles. Far more cycles >> than would be expected in automotive applications. Just >> assuming 200 cycles per day in a high-beam lamp for night >> highway driving would take 360 straight days of such service >> to equal 10 hours of wig-wag. >> >> Any insight, suggestions into the failure mode and how to work around it would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Not sure 'current ramping' would have a very useful effect. >> Some of you may recall an experiment we did some years back >> to evaluate the usefulness of inrush-limiters in wig-wagged >> landing lights. Remember this plot? >> >> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Wig_Wag_Currents.jpg >> >> We discovered that the lamp temperature stays pretty warm >> during a 250 mS off-cycle such that you don't see the typical >> cold-filament inrush each time the lamp is powered up. But >> the temperature excursions between no-visible light and full >> intensity is still significant. It may well be that the very >> thing that makes the halogen a stellar illuminator amongst >> incandescent lamps is it's Achilles Heel as well. >> >> Just a guess . . . but until I hear/get a better idea, I'm >> sticking with it. >> >> Bob . . . >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:55:44 AM PST US
    Subject: Transponder troubles
    From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
    Had strange occurrence with Salt Lake Approach yesterday. Initially, when they said they couldn't see my transponder, I had a reply light. Then they said they could see a 1200 code from it, not the 0363 assigned that I had dialed in. A bit later they saw the correct code, and it continued to be okay until out of their airspace. Now I departed the Phoenix area the day before, communicating with 2 radar equipped towers that had no complaints on my transponder and were giving me radar traffic callouts, so I know it was working. Not sure how a transponder could possibly put out a 1200 code when set to something else, and then revert to sending the selected code. I could see one or two digits being wrong, but the whole code? I could only think they had a weak signal, but checked after I landed and antenna was clean. I guess I can check the coax connection, and reseat the unit in its tray, but would rather not have to spend for an unnecessary bench check. It is an old model with cavity tube, but has been rock solid since it was aligned 8 yrs ago, passing every biennial check. Any other thoughts?


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:38:27 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Transponder troubles
    At 09:52 AM 9/10/2011, you wrote: Had strange occurrence with Salt Lake Approach yesterday. Initially, when they said they couldn't see my transponder, I had a reply light. Then they said they could see a 1200 code from it, not the 0363 assigned that I had dialed in. A bit later they saw the correct code, and it continued to be okay until out of their airspace. Now I departed the Phoenix area the day before, communicating with 2 radar equipped towers that had no complaints on my transponder and were giving me radar traffic callouts, so I know it was working. Not sure how a transponder could possibly put out a 1200 code when set to something else, and then revert to sending the selected code. I could see one or two digits being wrong, but the whole code? I could only think they had a weak signal, but checked after I landed and antenna was clean. I guess I can check the coax connection, and reseat the unit in its tray, but would rather not have to spend for an unnecessary bench check. It is an old model with cavity tube, but has been rock solid since it was aligned 8 yrs ago, passing every biennial check. Any other thoughts? Don't worry about it . . . yet. Aviation electronics, transponders in particular are prime examples of what CAN happen when one agency with no particular expertise has the power to mandate behaviors to others without regard or responsibility for the unintended consequences. Modern transponders are descendants of the WWII IFF (identification, friend or foe) systems that helped avoid shooting down our own airplanes. The Mode A (identification only) systems of the 1960's were relatively simple pulse generators tide to an almost stable high power oscillator that would, most of the time, let the guy on the ground sort your primary radar return from perhaps hundreds of other returns. Then they added altitude reporting by making this little bitty change to the pattern of pulses . . . that were supposed to let the system on the ground tell the difference between two closely spaced string of pulses . . . first being I.D. the second being altitude. Of course, there were volumes of specifications written to which willing players complied so that they could play in the avionics sand-box. When some transponders failed to deliver a flavor of pulses distasteful to the ground systems, it was discovered that the agency in question 'made a mistake' in writing the specifications. The cost of a work-around nearly sank Terra. This is but one of many examples for how our avionics and the efficiency to which they perform has be regulated into inept antiquity . . . While the rest of the universe is communicating in digital spread spectrum, we still talk on radios that suck for air (VHF AM). This is but a hand-full of examples of system evolution that has been subject to administrative retardation. Yeah, it's getting "better" . . . but only by stacking band-aid on top of band-aid to a system that should have been trashed and replaced decades ago. You've got more capability, flexibility and utility in the computer upon which you're reading these words than the FAA has in their radar systems they depend on to tell other folks what to do . . . ostensibly to keep them from running into each other. It's sorta like sending a one armed man blind in one eye into a sword fight with a atomic powered table knife. If he's VERY talented, he'll be okay most of the time. So when somebody on the ground says there's something wrong with your radios, do your own due diligence but don't be surprised if the difficulty cannot be identified or repeated. His perceptions are altered by systematic retardation and may not always be accurate. Bob . . . Bob . . .


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:38:27 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Transponder troubles
    From: Ed Gilroy <egilroy@gmail.com>
    I had something similar happen to me only a few weeks ago arriving at Lancaster, PA. I was on a discrete code from prior flight following services and the tower said I was squawking 1200. A quick right turn followed by a look down revealed a VERY close VFR aircraft underneath me on my exact original course which was the runway heading for a straight in to the active. Was he blanketing my signal in some manner? unknown. Once I had diverged a bit the tower began seeing my signal and correct discrete code. I wonder how long we had been flying in "un-intentional formation"? On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote: > kellym@aviating.com> > > Had strange occurrence with Salt Lake Approach yesterday. Initially, > when they said they couldn't see my transponder, I had a reply light. > Then they said they could see a 1200 code from it, not the 0363 > assigned that I had dialed in. A bit later they saw the correct code, > and it continued to be okay until out of their airspace. Now I > departed the Phoenix area the day before, communicating with 2 radar > equipped towers that had no complaints on my transponder and were > giving me radar traffic callouts, so I know it was working. Not sure > how a transponder could possibly put out a 1200 code when set to > something else, and then revert to sending the selected code. I could > see one or two digits being wrong, but the whole code? I could only > think they had a weak signal, but checked after I landed and antenna > was clean. I guess I can check the coax connection, and reseat the > unit in its tray, but would rather not have to spend for an > unnecessary bench check. It is an old model with cavity tube, but has > been rock solid since it was aligned 8 yrs ago, passing every biennial > check. Any other thoughts? > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:10:04 AM PST US
    From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
    Subject: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure
    mode David, The HID kit I bought included two ballasts, H3 bulbs, and harnesses. I have yet to make a way to mount the ballasts but shouldn't be difficult. The ballasts are the newer slim (lighter?) version. The whole assembly is heavier than regular halogens. The solid state flasher I bought has a max rating of 55W per bulb, so this was the original reason to go away from the 100w halogens I was originally planning. The benefit will be more light, less power, and longer lasting I hope. Bevan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Lloyd Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 10:55 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure mode --> <skywagon@charter.net> Bevan, I think that I have viewed some of those on eBay. But, I came away with the idea that they were not a complete kit; power supply, harness, bulb/lamp combo, etc. I will take a better review of the offerings. Please let me know if you receive a complete operational system. David =============================================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 9:20 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure mode > --> <fvalarm@rapidnet.net> > > I bought a 55W HID kit on Ebay for $55 + shipping ($70 total) as other > have. > Most HID's are 35 watt. I'm expecting these to be about twice as > bright as 100watt incandescent, but haven't powered them up yet. I > don't consider this to be an expensive upgrade. > > Bevan > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > David Lloyd > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 5:51 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag > circuitry....failure mode > > --> <skywagon@charter.net> > > Bruce, > ...also a good suggestion, but, like HID's they are quite expensive > when one needs a really bright recognition lamp. > I plan to keep watching the LED market and see what comes in cost > reduction.... Thanks, David > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bruce" <BGray@glasair.org> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 3:44 PM > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag > circuitry....failure mode > > >> >> OK, how about LED? >> >> Bruce >> WWW.Glasair.org >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> David Lloyd >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 4:49 PM >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag >> circuitry....failure mode >> >> <skywagon@charter.net> >> >> Good suggestion...all except for the considerable cost for dual >> sets..... >> David >> >> ____________________________________________________ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bruce" <BGray@glasair.org> >> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 11:16 AM >> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag >> circuitry....failure mode >> >> >>> >>> Switch to HID. >>> >>> Bruce >>> WWW.Glasair.org >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> David >>> Lloyd >>> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 1:31 PM >>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag >>> circuitry....failure mode >>> >>> <skywagon@charter.net> >>> >>> A general question for Bob and the List Members concerning halogen >>> bulbs, i.e., GE H7604 landing light style. >>> >>> I am hoping someone on the List knows a lot about halogen bulb >>> failure modes. >>> >>> I have H7604 lamps in my wing tips that aid landing and traffic >>> recognition. >>> They are controlled by a solid state switcher that is either >>> OFF-ON-PULSED. >>> ( I do not know the turn-on ramp characteristics..) >>> >>> They fail in less than 10 hrs of operation. Interesting both seem >>> to fail nearly at the same time. The "pulse" mode for traffic >>> recognition is the major use. >>> >>> My ignorant guess is that halogen bulbs do not like to be pulsed or >>> ramped up too quickly during pulse mode. If the rapid power ramp up >>> is the primary cause, I am wondering if an appropriate choke >>> (induction) would slow that ramping down and return normal life to >>> these devices. >>> >>> Any insight, suggestions into the failure mode and how to work >>> around >> it >>> >>> would be greatly appreciated. David >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:19:28 AM PST US
    From: "George Steube" <at6c@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: RE: Avionics-List: Transponder troubles
    It's ATC problem. I have had the same issue with ATC on a number of occasions, if one radar site has a problem and nobody else does I wouldn't be in a hurry to get to the repair shop. George -----Original Message----- From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 8:52 AM Subject: Avionics-List: Transponder troubles --> Avionics-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> Had strange occurrence with Salt Lake Approach yesterday. Initially, when they said they couldn't see my transponder, I had a reply light. Then they said they could see a 1200 code from it, not the 0363 assigned that I had dialed in. A bit later they saw the correct code, and it continued to be okay until out of their airspace. Now I departed the Phoenix area the day before, communicating with 2 radar equipped towers that had no complaints on my transponder and were giving me radar traffic callouts, so I know it was working. Not sure how a transponder could possibly put out a 1200 code when set to something else, and then revert to sending the selected code. I could see one or two digits being wrong, but the whole code? I could only think they had a weak signal, but checked after I landed and antenna was clean. I guess I can check the coax connection, and reseat the unit in its tray, but would rather not have to spend for an unnecessary bench check. It is an old model with cavity tube, but has been rock solid since it was aligned 8 yrs ago, passing every biennial check. Any other thoughts?


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:22:49 AM PST US
    From: "Vern Little" <sprocket@vx-aviation.com>
    Subject: Re: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure
    mode I used the CL-21 from www.ge-mcs.com/download/temperature/920_325a.pdf Available at Digi-Key Thanks, V -----Original Message----- From: David Lloyd Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 11:00 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure mode <skywagon@charter.net> Vern, I am unfamiliar with the "current limiters" that you mention. Your solution looks great. Please give a bit more detail... I will check for my solid state flasher model and if it can be modified...(not potted, etc.) It was part of the RMD wing tip system. David =========================================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vern Little" <sprocket@vx-aviation.com> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 7:57 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure mode > <sprocket@vx-aviation.com> > > I used inrush current limiters on my halogens (450+ hours so far). Since > this also causes the lamps to take more time to reach full brightness, I > modified the B&C flasher to slow it down by doubling the capacitance of > the electrolytic capacitor inside the can. Double the resistor value > would also work. > > V > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Lloyd > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 5:47 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag > circuitry....failure mode > > <skywagon@charter.net> > > Bob, > I think that you are totally correct concerning the thermo rapid cycle > being > the stress failure mode. > > When viewing the filaments with a mag. lens they look completely normal > and > intact until you look carefully at one end of the filament. They are > broken > at the very end. > > Odd that I have not run into others that are having the same problem as > these bulbs are used in a lot of recognition applications. > > I suspect that if I left them ON continually, they would last a normal > life. > And, as you outline, in PULSE mode the thermo aspect is too much stress. I > wonder now, if there is a heavy duty version of this bulb with bullet > proof > filament structure. > > I am installing new bulbs when delivered and will report back when I have > a > similar failure. Hopefully, I may have learned more. > Thanks, David > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 4:15 PM > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag > circuitry....failure mode > > >> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> >> >> I have H7604 lamps in my wing tips that aid landing and traffic >> recognition. They are controlled by a solid state switcher that is either >> OFF-ON-PULSED. ( I do not know the turn-on ramp characteristics..) >> >> They fail in less than 10 hrs of operation. Interesting both seem to >> fail nearly at the same time. The "pulse" mode for traffic recognition >> is the major use. >> >> My ignorant guess is that halogen bulbs do not like to be pulsed or >> ramped up too quickly during pulse mode. If the rapid power ramp up is >> the primary cause, I am wondering if an appropriate choke (induction) >> would slow that ramping down and return normal life to these devices. >> >> If I were to do a WAG . . . I'm guessing that you're >> getting repetitive stress cracks in the filaments. >> These things operate somewhat hotter than their older >> cousins . . . most seem to have heavier filaments too. >> >> There are two things that erode filament integrity . . . >> evaporation (total operating hours issue) and stress >> cracks (combination of vibration and temperature cycling). >> I'm wondering if the halogens are not more highly stressed >> during each illumination cycle. Since a wig-wag operates >> on the order of 2 flashes per second, 10 hours of flashing >> would offer 72,000 or so temperature cycles. Far more cycles >> than would be expected in automotive applications. Just >> assuming 200 cycles per day in a high-beam lamp for night >> highway driving would take 360 straight days of such service >> to equal 10 hours of wig-wag. >> >> Any insight, suggestions into the failure mode and how to work around it >> would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Not sure 'current ramping' would have a very useful effect. >> Some of you may recall an experiment we did some years back >> to evaluate the usefulness of inrush-limiters in wig-wagged >> landing lights. Remember this plot? >> >> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Wig_Wag_Currents.jpg >> >> We discovered that the lamp temperature stays pretty warm >> during a 250 mS off-cycle such that you don't see the typical >> cold-filament inrush each time the lamp is powered up. But >> the temperature excursions between no-visible light and full >> intensity is still significant. It may well be that the very >> thing that makes the halogen a stellar illuminator amongst >> incandescent lamps is it's Achilles Heel as well. >> >> Just a guess . . . but until I hear/get a better idea, I'm >> sticking with it. >> >> Bob . . . >> >> >> >> >> > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com


    Message 8


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    Time: 09:24:49 AM PST US
    From: "Vern Little" <sprocket@vx-aviation.com>
    Subject: Re: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure
    mode ... this is a circular reference... your quoting my own posts on your site! Nice to see you documented it properly. Cheers, V -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Zachar Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 4:05 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure mode <andrew.d.zachar@gmail.com> Awhile back, I did a post about this exact modification. http://n999za.com/2010/11/07/hacking-the-wig-wag-flasher/ Of course, I was only successful because if this list's gracious help and advice. Hoping the pictures assist the discussion... __ Andrew Zachar andrew.d.zachar@gmail.com On Sep 9, 2011, at 10:57 PM, "Vern Little" <sprocket@vx-aviation.com> wrote: > <sprocket@vx-aviation.com> > > I used inrush current limiters on my halogens (450+ hours so far). Since > this also causes the lamps to take more time to reach full brightness, I > modified the B&C flasher to slow it down by doubling the capacitance of > the electrolytic capacitor inside the can. Double the resistor value > would also work. > > V > > > -----Original Message----- From: David Lloyd > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 5:47 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag > circuitry....failure mode > > <skywagon@charter.net> > > Bob, > I think that you are totally correct concerning the thermo rapid cycle > being > the stress failure mode. > > When viewing the filaments with a mag. lens they look completely normal > and > intact until you look carefully at one end of the filament. They are > broken > at the very end. > > Odd that I have not run into others that are having the same problem as > these bulbs are used in a lot of recognition applications. > > I suspect that if I left them ON continually, they would last a normal > life. > And, as you outline, in PULSE mode the thermo aspect is too much stress. > I > wonder now, if there is a heavy duty version of this bulb with bullet > proof > filament structure. > > I am installing new bulbs when delivered and will report back when I have > a > similar failure. Hopefully, I may have learned more. > Thanks, David > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 4:15 PM > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag > circuitry....failure mode > > >> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> >> >> I have H7604 lamps in my wing tips that aid landing and traffic >> recognition. They are controlled by a solid state switcher that is either >> OFF-ON-PULSED. ( I do not know the turn-on ramp characteristics..) >> >> They fail in less than 10 hrs of operation. Interesting both seem to >> fail nearly at the same time. The "pulse" mode for traffic recognition >> is the major use. >> >> My ignorant guess is that halogen bulbs do not like to be pulsed or >> ramped up too quickly during pulse mode. If the rapid power ramp up is >> the primary cause, I am wondering if an appropriate choke (induction) >> would slow that ramping down and return normal life to these devices. >> >> If I were to do a WAG . . . I'm guessing that you're >> getting repetitive stress cracks in the filaments. >> These things operate somewhat hotter than their older >> cousins . . . most seem to have heavier filaments too. >> >> There are two things that erode filament integrity . . . >> evaporation (total operating hours issue) and stress >> cracks (combination of vibration and temperature cycling). >> I'm wondering if the halogens are not more highly stressed >> during each illumination cycle. Since a wig-wag operates >> on the order of 2 flashes per second, 10 hours of flashing >> would offer 72,000 or so temperature cycles. Far more cycles >> than would be expected in automotive applications. Just >> assuming 200 cycles per day in a high-beam lamp for night >> highway driving would take 360 straight days of such service >> to equal 10 hours of wig-wag. >> >> Any insight, suggestions into the failure mode and how to work around it >> would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Not sure 'current ramping' would have a very useful effect. >> Some of you may recall an experiment we did some years back >> to evaluate the usefulness of inrush-limiters in wig-wagged >> landing lights. Remember this plot? >> >> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Wig_Wag_Currents.jpg >> >> We discovered that the lamp temperature stays pretty warm >> during a 250 mS off-cycle such that you don't see the typical >> cold-filament inrush each time the lamp is powered up. But >> the temperature excursions between no-visible light and full >> intensity is still significant. It may well be that the very >> thing that makes the halogen a stellar illuminator amongst >> incandescent lamps is it's Achilles Heel as well. >> >> Just a guess . . . but until I hear/get a better idea, I'm >> sticking with it. >> >> Bob . . . >> >> >> >> >> > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com


    Message 9


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    Time: 09:46:16 AM PST US
    From: David <ainut@knology.net>
    Subject: Re: Transponder troubles
    interference from something else? Kelly McMullen wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen<kellym@aviating.com> > > Had strange occurrence with Salt Lake Approach yesterday. Initially, > when they said they couldn't see my transponder, I had a reply light. > Then they said they could see a 1200 code from it, not the 0363 > assigned that I had dialed in. A bit later they saw the correct code, > and it continued to be okay until out of their airspace. Now I > departed the Phoenix area the day before, communicating with 2 radar > equipped towers that had no complaints on my transponder and were > giving me radar traffic callouts, so I know it was working. Not sure > how a transponder could possibly put out a 1200 code when set to > something else, and then revert to sending the selected code. I could > see one or two digits being wrong, but the whole code? I could only > think they had a weak signal, but checked after I landed and antenna > was clean. I guess I can check the coax connection, and reseat the > unit in its tray, but would rather not have to spend for an > unnecessary bench check. It is an old model with cavity tube, but has > been rock solid since it was aligned 8 yrs ago, passing every biennial > check. Any other thoughts? > > > -- If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid of Soros. ...democracy and a republic can function only in a firm partnership with morality and religion. -- John Adams. Indeed. Same should be said for ANY type of gubmnt


    Message 10


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    Time: 10:24:13 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure
    mode
    From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
    I've been selling Wig-wags for many years. Our wig-wags do not depend on lamp resistance. They consist of two big mosfets driven by a mosfet driver and some simple internal timer. They cost more than the automotive type, and they are 100% solid state, so in theory that will last forever. Early on, it was discovered that HIDs would destroy them for two reasons: 1) the starting current surge on an HID is very large (okay, short but tall), and the lamp and the + line sees a HV pulse at the same time. The solution to these issues was to supply a surge arrestor and an HV suppressor for those who wanted to wig-wag their HIDs. There are additional issues--these vary by lamp and ballast manufacturer--but people seem to be having few problems. Wig-wagging LEDs is trivial, but some LEDs require a Voltage booster or constant current supply to function well. These employ littel switch-mode power supplies that frequently make noise on the audio or HF transmitter lines. Wig-wagging really big halogen lamps is also easy providing a current surge protector is used. I have demonstrated 2X 250 watt lamps wig-wagging happily with our WW(c) or WW(d). After using these on my white LED tail lights, I finally had to give up and return to a simple, reliable (but not as efficient) LM317 current regulator (which I offer as a free design if you want to roll your own). One final note: BMW is now testing white LASER auto headlamps. No, the lasers won't poke holes in things--lasers are used because they can be made to be several times more efficient (Lumens/Watt) than LEDs. But LEDs are not slacking either...Cree has demonstrated a white LED of 231 Lumens Per Watt. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351901#351901


    Message 11


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    Time: 10:49:51 AM PST US
    From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Transponder troubles
    On 09/10/2011 08:52 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > --> Avionics-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen<kellym@aviating.com> > > Had strange occurrence with Salt Lake Approach yesterday. Initially, > when they said they couldn't see my transponder, I had a reply light. > Then they said they could see a 1200 code from it, not the 0363 > assigned that I had dialed in. A bit later they saw the correct code, > and it continued to be okay until out of their airspace. Now I > departed the Phoenix area the day before, communicating with 2 radar > equipped towers that had no complaints on my transponder and were > giving me radar traffic callouts, so I know it was working. Not sure > how a transponder could possibly put out a 1200 code when set to > something else, and then revert to sending the selected code. I could > see one or two digits being wrong, but the whole code? I could only > think they had a weak signal, but checked after I landed and antenna > was clean. I guess I can check the coax connection, and reseat the > unit in its tray, but would rather not have to spend for an > unnecessary bench check. It is an old model with cavity tube, but has > been rock solid since it was aligned 8 yrs ago, passing every biennial > check. Any other thoughts? Another + for it being an ATC problem. One of my neighbors used to fly all over the central & southeast USA, & whenever he (and others) would fly through Memphis airspace ATC would tell them that their transponder wasn't working properly (no altitude, incorrect altitude, etc etc). The various transponders seemed to work fine around other class B/C airspace, & all had problems whenever they entered Memphis airspace. Charlie


    Message 12


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    Time: 10:49:55 AM PST US
    From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure
    mode Bevan, Thanks again for details. I note that the HID bulbs are just that... "a bulb" made to twist into a reflector. What did you use as reflector that could mounted in the same hold-down mount that would normally contain the typical halogen lamp assembly like a GE H7604 50W lamp used in landing lights, etc..? david =============================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 9:04 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure mode > > David, > > The HID kit I bought included two ballasts, H3 bulbs, and harnesses. I > have > yet to make a way to mount the ballasts but shouldn't be difficult. The > ballasts are the newer slim (lighter?) version. The whole assembly is > heavier than regular halogens. > > The solid state flasher I bought has a max rating of 55W per bulb, so this > was the original reason to go away from the 100w halogens I was originally > planning. The benefit will be more light, less power, and longer lasting > I > hope. > > Bevan > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David > Lloyd > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 10:55 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag > circuitry....failure mode > > --> <skywagon@charter.net> > > Bevan, > I think that I have viewed some of those on eBay. But, I came away with > the > idea that they were not a complete kit; power supply, harness, bulb/lamp > combo, etc. I will take a better review of the offerings. Please let me > know if you receive a complete operational system. > David > > =============================================================== > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 9:20 PM > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag > circuitry....failure mode > > >> --> <fvalarm@rapidnet.net> >> >> I bought a 55W HID kit on Ebay for $55 + shipping ($70 total) as other >> have. >> Most HID's are 35 watt. I'm expecting these to be about twice as >> bright as 100watt incandescent, but haven't powered them up yet. I >> don't consider this to be an expensive upgrade. >> >> Bevan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> David Lloyd >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 5:51 PM >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag >> circuitry....failure mode >> >> --> <skywagon@charter.net> >> >> Bruce, >> ...also a good suggestion, but, like HID's they are quite expensive >> when one needs a really bright recognition lamp. >> I plan to keep watching the LED market and see what comes in cost >> reduction.... Thanks, David >> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bruce" <BGray@glasair.org> >> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 3:44 PM >> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag >> circuitry....failure mode >> >> >>> >>> OK, how about LED? >>> >>> Bruce >>> WWW.Glasair.org >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>> David Lloyd >>> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 4:49 PM >>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag >>> circuitry....failure mode >>> >>> <skywagon@charter.net> >>> >>> Good suggestion...all except for the considerable cost for dual >>> sets..... >>> David >>> >>> ____________________________________________________ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Bruce" <BGray@glasair.org> >>> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> >>> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 11:16 AM >>> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag >>> circuitry....failure mode >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Switch to HID. >>>> >>>> Bruce >>>> WWW.Glasair.org >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >>>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>> David >>>> Lloyd >>>> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 1:31 PM >>>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag >>>> circuitry....failure mode >>>> >>>> <skywagon@charter.net> >>>> >>>> A general question for Bob and the List Members concerning halogen >>>> bulbs, i.e., GE H7604 landing light style. >>>> >>>> I am hoping someone on the List knows a lot about halogen bulb >>>> failure modes. >>>> >>>> I have H7604 lamps in my wing tips that aid landing and traffic >>>> recognition. >>>> They are controlled by a solid state switcher that is either >>>> OFF-ON-PULSED. >>>> ( I do not know the turn-on ramp characteristics..) >>>> >>>> They fail in less than 10 hrs of operation. Interesting both seem >>>> to fail nearly at the same time. The "pulse" mode for traffic >>>> recognition is the major use. >>>> >>>> My ignorant guess is that halogen bulbs do not like to be pulsed or >>>> ramped up too quickly during pulse mode. If the rapid power ramp up >>>> is the primary cause, I am wondering if an appropriate choke >>>> (induction) would slow that ramping down and return normal life to >>>> these devices. >>>> >>>> Any insight, suggestions into the failure mode and how to work >>>> around >>> it >>>> >>>> would be greatly appreciated. David >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 02:26:36 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure
    mode
    From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
    A couple more things: 1) I have a note from GE that says that wig-wagging lamps extends their life. (I have no dog in this fight, that's just what GE says.) 2) I have noticed a degrading of quality in incandescent lamp manufacturing generally. It is typical that a big company will just transfer...for example...their line of filament lamps to Elbonia, or wherever, instead of where they had been making them for 30 years. Welcome to the new world order. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351918#351918


    Message 14


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    Time: 02:51:41 PM PST US
    From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
    Subject: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure
    mode I had originally bought the duckworth kits from vans. You could just buy the lenses from Vans and make your own bracket, and scrounge a reflector from somewhere or buy an auto fog lamp assembly as a source for the reflector. Bevan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Lloyd Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 10:47 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure mode --> <skywagon@charter.net> Bevan, Thanks again for details. I note that the HID bulbs are just that... "a bulb" made to twist into a reflector. What did you use as reflector that could mounted in the same hold-down mount that would normally contain the typical halogen lamp assembly like a GE H7604 50W lamp used in landing lights, etc..? david =============================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 9:04 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure mode > --> <fvalarm@rapidnet.net> > > David, > > The HID kit I bought included two ballasts, H3 bulbs, and harnesses. > I have yet to make a way to mount the ballasts but shouldn't be > difficult. The ballasts are the newer slim (lighter?) version. The > whole assembly is heavier than regular halogens. > > The solid state flasher I bought has a max rating of 55W per bulb, so > this was the original reason to go away from the 100w halogens I was > originally planning. The benefit will be more light, less power, and > longer lasting I hope. > > Bevan > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > David Lloyd > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 10:55 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag > circuitry....failure mode > > --> <skywagon@charter.net> > > Bevan, > I think that I have viewed some of those on eBay. But, I came away > with the idea that they were not a complete kit; power supply, > harness, bulb/lamp combo, etc. I will take a better review of the > offerings. Please let me know if you receive a complete operational > system. > David > > =============================================================== > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 9:20 PM > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag > circuitry....failure mode > > >> --> <fvalarm@rapidnet.net> >> >> I bought a 55W HID kit on Ebay for $55 + shipping ($70 total) as >> other have. >> Most HID's are 35 watt. I'm expecting these to be about twice as >> bright as 100watt incandescent, but haven't powered them up yet. I >> don't consider this to be an expensive upgrade. >> >> Bevan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> David Lloyd >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 5:51 PM >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag >> circuitry....failure mode >> >> --> <skywagon@charter.net> >> >> Bruce, >> ...also a good suggestion, but, like HID's they are quite expensive >> when one needs a really bright recognition lamp. >> I plan to keep watching the LED market and see what comes in cost >> reduction.... Thanks, David >> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bruce" <BGray@glasair.org> >> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 3:44 PM >> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag >> circuitry....failure mode >> >> >>> >>> OK, how about LED? >>> >>> Bruce >>> WWW.Glasair.org >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>> David Lloyd >>> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 4:49 PM >>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag >>> circuitry....failure mode >>> >>> <skywagon@charter.net> >>> >>> Good suggestion...all except for the considerable cost for dual >>> sets..... >>> David >>> >>> ____________________________________________________ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Bruce" <BGray@glasair.org> >>> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> >>> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 11:16 AM >>> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag >>> circuitry....failure mode >>> >>> >>>> --> <BGray@glasair.org> >>>> >>>> Switch to HID. >>>> >>>> Bruce >>>> WWW.Glasair.org >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >>>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>> David >>>> Lloyd >>>> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 1:31 PM >>>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Halogen bulbs with wig wag >>>> circuitry....failure mode >>>> >>>> <skywagon@charter.net> >>>> >>>> A general question for Bob and the List Members concerning halogen >>>> bulbs, i.e., GE H7604 landing light style. >>>> >>>> I am hoping someone on the List knows a lot about halogen bulb >>>> failure modes. >>>> >>>> I have H7604 lamps in my wing tips that aid landing and traffic >>>> recognition. >>>> They are controlled by a solid state switcher that is either >>>> OFF-ON-PULSED. >>>> ( I do not know the turn-on ramp characteristics..) >>>> >>>> They fail in less than 10 hrs of operation. Interesting both seem >>>> to fail nearly at the same time. The "pulse" mode for traffic >>>> recognition is the major use. >>>> >>>> My ignorant guess is that halogen bulbs do not like to be pulsed or >>>> ramped up too quickly during pulse mode. If the rapid power ramp >>>> up is the primary cause, I am wondering if an appropriate choke >>>> (induction) would slow that ramping down and return normal life to >>>> these devices. >>>> >>>> Any insight, suggestions into the failure mode and how to work >>>> around >>> it >>>> >>>> would be greatly appreciated. David >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >




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