Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:39 AM - Re: Tentative Zenith Electrical Design (Doug Ilg)
2. 05:54 AM - Tentative Zenith Electrical Design ()
3. 09:00 AM - Re: Re: Electric aircraft issues (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 09:18 AM - Re: Tentative Zenith Electrical Design (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 09:48 AM - Re: Tentative Zenith Electrical Design (Doug Ilg)
6. 10:23 AM - Re: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure mode (skywagon)
7. 05:39 PM - Re: Tentative Zenith Electrical Design (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Tentative Zenith Electrical Design |
Dan,=0A=0AThat is, indeed, a simple system and most of it looks good to thi
s novice.- I only see two issues, both in the starting/ignition circuit.
=0A=0AFirst, it appears that your starter contactor is energized whenever b
oth mags are hot.- That means your starter will always be engaged in flig
ht.- Adding a simple momentary-on start switch would be one way to fix th
at.=0A=0AThe second thing is that both mags are required to be hot, in orde
r to start.- That would be sort of okay if you had 2 impulse coupled mags
.- Since you only show the left mag as having an impulse coupling, you re
ally want to start with only the left mag hot.- =0A=0A=0AIf I recall, at
least one of Bob's diagrams uses 2-10 switches (in place of the 2-5's you s
how).- They are on-on-(on) with some fancy wiring that will fix both of t
hese problems.- Switch down = mag grounded, switch in the middle = ma
g hot, both switches momentarily up = energize starter contactor.- I be
lieve there's a way to have the up position ground out the unwanted mag, to
o.=0A=0APersonally, I prefer the simplicity and flexibility of independentl
y switched mags and an independent starter switch.=0A=0A-=0ADoug Ilg=0AGr
umman Tiger N74818, College Park-Airport (KCGS), Maryland=0AChallenger II
LSS LW (N641LG-reserved)-- kit underway at Laurel Suburban (W18)=0A=0A
-=0A=0A=0A=0A>________________________________=0A>From: Dan Sherburn <dsh
erburn@att.net>=0A>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com=0A>Sent: Tuesday, Oc
tober 11, 2011 9:03 PM=0A>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Tentative Zenith Elec
trical Design=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>I'm building a Zenith CH750 (just started). T
he Zenith Builders group =0Adirected me to the AeroElectric Connection. I'v
e ordered Bob's books and CD. =0AI've utilized one of the sample drawings I
'd like to use as the basis for an =0Aelectrical design for my Zenith. To d
ate, I'm planning on a very simple, day, =0AVFR airplane. Continental 0200,
no vacuum. As such, I'm looking for a very =0Asimple, proper electrical de
sign for the plane. Attached is a-straight =0Aforward-electrical design
taken from the AeroElectric Connection samples. =0APlease review and comme
nt. I've yet to detail avionics, but at a minimum I'll =0Ahave a simple GPS
and Comm (no Nav), but a transponder is a "maybe".=0A>-=0A>I'm an Electr
ical Engineer, which doesn't mean alot in terms of Aircraft =0Aelectrical s
ystems; just that I'm comfortable with electrical control =0Asystems=0A>-
=0A>Thanks in advance!=0A>Dan Sherburn=0A>Michigan=0A>=0A>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Tentative Zenith Electrical Design |
10/12/2011
Hello Dan, You wrote: "....but a transponder is a "maybe"."
Please change that "maybe" to a "yes".
Having a transponder in an aircraft in this day and age is sort of like
having turn signals in an automobile. You may get by OK for a time with arm
signals in your automobile, but you will soon regret not having turn signals
installed.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
PS: Someday you, your widow, or your children will be selling that airplane.
A prospective buyer will be discouraged by the lack of a transponder.
================================================================
Time: 06:07:18 PM PST US
From: "Dan Sherburn" <dsherburn@att.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Tentative Zenith Electrical Design
I'm building a Zenith CH750 (just started). The Zenith Builders group
directed me to the AeroElectric Connection. I've ordered Bob's books and
CD. I've utilized one of the sample drawings I'd like to use as the
basis for an electrical design for my Zenith. To date, I'm planning on a
very simple, day, VFR airplane. Continental 0200, no vacuum. As such,
I'm looking for a very simple, proper electrical design for the plane.
Attached is a straight forward electrical design taken from the
AeroElectric Connection samples. Please review and comment. I've yet to
detail avionics, but at a minimum I'll have a simple GPS and Comm (no
Nav), but a transponder is a "maybe".
I'm an Electrical Engineer, which doesn't mean alot in terms of Aircraft
electrical systems; just that I'm comfortable with electrical control
systems
Thanks in advance!
Dan Sherburn
Michigan
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Electric aircraft issues |
At 09:54 PM 10/11/2011, you wrote:
>
>I can think of three ships with lithium loss. One is on the ground,
>there is no loss of life, burnt down the runway about 4 hours. The
>other two did not end so well.
Do you know of any Internet stories that describe
these events?
Also, welcome to the AeroElectric-List. Where
are you located? Are you building an airplane?
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Tentative Zenith Electrical Design |
At 07:35 AM 10/12/2011, you wrote:
>Dan,
>
>That is, indeed, a simple system and most of it looks good to this
>novice. I only see two issues, both in the starting/ignition circuit.
>
>First, it appears that your starter contactor is energized whenever
>both mags are hot. That means your starter will always be engaged
>in flight. Adding a simple momentary-on start switch would be one
>way to fix that.
>
>The second thing is that both mags are required to be hot, in order
>to start. That would be sort of okay if you had 2 impulse coupled
>mags. Since you only show the left mag as having an impulse
>coupling, you really want to start with only the left mag hot.
>
>If I recall, at least one of Bob's diagrams uses 2-10 switches (in
>place of the 2-5's you show). They are on-on-(on) with some fancy
>wiring that will fix both of these problems. Switch down = mag
>grounded, switch in the middle = mag hot, both switches momentarily
>up = energize starter contactor. I believe there's a way to have
>the up position ground out the unwanted mag, too.
This mag/starter switch configuration is based on two,
2-5 on-off-(on) three position toggle switches. This
wiring is depicted in Figure Z-11.
If you study the wiring in Z-11, you'll see that the
starter cannot be cranked unless the right mag switch
is OFF. Then, raising the left mag switch from the stable,
mid position (mag hot) to full up, the starter contactor
is energized. The spring-loaded, full-up position of the
right mag siwtch is not used.
I used two identical switches so that the magneto
switches for normal flight ops are BOTH in the mid
position.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Tentative Zenith Electrical Design |
And now you have the real story.- Forget most of what I said.- (I still
prefer independent switches/circuits, though.)=0A=0AThanks for the correct
ion, Bob.=0A=0A-=0ADoug Ilg=0AGrumman Tiger N74818, College Park-Airpor
t (KCGS), Maryland=0AChallenger II LSS LW (N641LG-reserved)-- kit under
way at Laurel Suburban (W18)=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0A- - This mag/starter swit
ch configuration is based on two,=0A>- - 2-5 on-off-(on) three position
toggle switches. This=0A>- - wiring is depicted in Figure Z-11.=0A>=0A
>- - If you study the wiring in Z-11, you'll see that the=0A>- - st
arter cannot be cranked unless the right mag switch=0A>- - is OFF. Then
, raising the left mag switch from the stable,=0A>- - mid position (mag
hot) to full up, the starter contactor=0A>- - is energized. The spring
-loaded, full-up position of the=0A>- - right mag siwtch is not used.
=0A>=0A>- - I used two identical switches so that the magneto=0A>-
- switches for normal flight ops are BOTH in the mid=0A>- - position.
=0A>=0A>=0A>- Bob . . . =0A>=0A>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure |
mode
Since this bulb failure issue was my original message and problem, I can add only
another piece of mechanical evidence that may or may not have anything to do
with the H7604 filament failures....
1. Under magnification, both filaments separated not in the coil section, but,
on the short straight ends just before their connection post.
2. I do not know if the filaments (bulbs) were originally installed in the vertical
or horizontal orientation. Rumor has it, that installing with the filaments
vertically removes some of the mechanical stress from wing vibration and
landing stresses.
3. I have installed the new H7604's with the filaments in the vertical orientation
and will report in the future if this seems to extend the bulb life.
David
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354827#354827
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Tentative Zenith Electrical Design |
At 11:44 AM 10/12/2011, you wrote:
>And now you have the real story. Forget most of what I said. (I
>still prefer independent switches/circuits, though.)
>
>Thanks for the correction, Bob.
Not necessarily a correction of your analysis . . . the
diagram you were evaluating was not accurately quoted
from Z-11. I'm glad you caught this . . . I sure didn't
the first time I looked at it.
Readers should keep in mind too that many FEATURES
of the various Z-figures can be interchanged. There's
perhaps a half dozen examples of practical magneto/starter
management spread across the various drawings.
The purpose of so many different z-figures is to
speak to ARCHITECTURES . . . not detailed features.
Bob . . .
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