---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/12/11: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:39 AM - Re: Tentative Zenith Electrical Design (Doug Ilg) 2. 05:54 AM - Tentative Zenith Electrical Design () 3. 09:00 AM - Re: Re: Electric aircraft issues (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 09:18 AM - Re: Tentative Zenith Electrical Design (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 09:48 AM - Re: Tentative Zenith Electrical Design (Doug Ilg) 6. 10:23 AM - Re: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure mode (skywagon) 7. 05:39 PM - Re: Tentative Zenith Electrical Design (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:14 AM PST US From: Doug Ilg Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tentative Zenith Electrical Design Dan,=0A=0AThat is, indeed, a simple system and most of it looks good to thi s novice.- I only see two issues, both in the starting/ignition circuit. =0A=0AFirst, it appears that your starter contactor is energized whenever b oth mags are hot.- That means your starter will always be engaged in flig ht.- Adding a simple momentary-on start switch would be one way to fix th at.=0A=0AThe second thing is that both mags are required to be hot, in orde r to start.- That would be sort of okay if you had 2 impulse coupled mags .- Since you only show the left mag as having an impulse coupling, you re ally want to start with only the left mag hot.- =0A=0A=0AIf I recall, at least one of Bob's diagrams uses 2-10 switches (in place of the 2-5's you s how).- They are on-on-(on) with some fancy wiring that will fix both of t hese problems.- Switch down = mag grounded, switch in the middle = ma g hot, both switches momentarily up = energize starter contactor.- I be lieve there's a way to have the up position ground out the unwanted mag, to o.=0A=0APersonally, I prefer the simplicity and flexibility of independentl y switched mags and an independent starter switch.=0A=0A-=0ADoug Ilg=0AGr umman Tiger N74818, College Park-Airport (KCGS), Maryland=0AChallenger II LSS LW (N641LG-reserved)-- kit underway at Laurel Suburban (W18)=0A=0A -=0A=0A=0A=0A>________________________________=0A>From: Dan Sherburn =0A>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com=0A>Sent: Tuesday, Oc tober 11, 2011 9:03 PM=0A>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Tentative Zenith Elec trical Design=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>I'm building a Zenith CH750 (just started). T he Zenith Builders group =0Adirected me to the AeroElectric Connection. I'v e ordered Bob's books and CD. =0AI've utilized one of the sample drawings I 'd like to use as the basis for an =0Aelectrical design for my Zenith. To d ate, I'm planning on a very simple, day, =0AVFR airplane. Continental 0200, no vacuum. As such, I'm looking for a very =0Asimple, proper electrical de sign for the plane. Attached is a-straight =0Aforward-electrical design taken from the AeroElectric Connection samples. =0APlease review and comme nt. I've yet to detail avionics, but at a minimum I'll =0Ahave a simple GPS and Comm (no Nav), but a transponder is a "maybe".=0A>-=0A>I'm an Electr ical Engineer, which doesn't mean alot in terms of Aircraft =0Aelectrical s ystems; just that I'm comfortable with electrical control =0Asystems=0A>- =0A>Thanks in advance!=0A>Dan Sherburn=0A>Michigan=0A>=0A> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:19 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Tentative Zenith Electrical Design 10/12/2011 Hello Dan, You wrote: "....but a transponder is a "maybe"." Please change that "maybe" to a "yes". Having a transponder in an aircraft in this day and age is sort of like having turn signals in an automobile. You may get by OK for a time with arm signals in your automobile, but you will soon regret not having turn signals installed. 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." PS: Someday you, your widow, or your children will be selling that airplane. A prospective buyer will be discouraged by the lack of a transponder. ================================================================ Time: 06:07:18 PM PST US From: "Dan Sherburn" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Tentative Zenith Electrical Design I'm building a Zenith CH750 (just started). The Zenith Builders group directed me to the AeroElectric Connection. I've ordered Bob's books and CD. I've utilized one of the sample drawings I'd like to use as the basis for an electrical design for my Zenith. To date, I'm planning on a very simple, day, VFR airplane. Continental 0200, no vacuum. As such, I'm looking for a very simple, proper electrical design for the plane. Attached is a straight forward electrical design taken from the AeroElectric Connection samples. Please review and comment. I've yet to detail avionics, but at a minimum I'll have a simple GPS and Comm (no Nav), but a transponder is a "maybe". I'm an Electrical Engineer, which doesn't mean alot in terms of Aircraft electrical systems; just that I'm comfortable with electrical control systems Thanks in advance! Dan Sherburn Michigan ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:07 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Electric aircraft issues At 09:54 PM 10/11/2011, you wrote: > >I can think of three ships with lithium loss. One is on the ground, >there is no loss of life, burnt down the runway about 4 hours. The >other two did not end so well. Do you know of any Internet stories that describe these events? Also, welcome to the AeroElectric-List. Where are you located? Are you building an airplane? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:52 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tentative Zenith Electrical Design At 07:35 AM 10/12/2011, you wrote: >Dan, > >That is, indeed, a simple system and most of it looks good to this >novice. I only see two issues, both in the starting/ignition circuit. > >First, it appears that your starter contactor is energized whenever >both mags are hot. That means your starter will always be engaged >in flight. Adding a simple momentary-on start switch would be one >way to fix that. > >The second thing is that both mags are required to be hot, in order >to start. That would be sort of okay if you had 2 impulse coupled >mags. Since you only show the left mag as having an impulse >coupling, you really want to start with only the left mag hot. > >If I recall, at least one of Bob's diagrams uses 2-10 switches (in >place of the 2-5's you show). They are on-on-(on) with some fancy >wiring that will fix both of these problems. Switch down = mag >grounded, switch in the middle = mag hot, both switches momentarily >up = energize starter contactor. I believe there's a way to have >the up position ground out the unwanted mag, too. This mag/starter switch configuration is based on two, 2-5 on-off-(on) three position toggle switches. This wiring is depicted in Figure Z-11. If you study the wiring in Z-11, you'll see that the starter cannot be cranked unless the right mag switch is OFF. Then, raising the left mag switch from the stable, mid position (mag hot) to full up, the starter contactor is energized. The spring-loaded, full-up position of the right mag siwtch is not used. I used two identical switches so that the magneto switches for normal flight ops are BOTH in the mid position. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:48:44 AM PST US From: Doug Ilg Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tentative Zenith Electrical Design And now you have the real story.- Forget most of what I said.- (I still prefer independent switches/circuits, though.)=0A=0AThanks for the correct ion, Bob.=0A=0A-=0ADoug Ilg=0AGrumman Tiger N74818, College Park-Airpor t (KCGS), Maryland=0AChallenger II LSS LW (N641LG-reserved)-- kit under way at Laurel Suburban (W18)=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0A- - This mag/starter swit ch configuration is based on two,=0A>- - 2-5 on-off-(on) three position toggle switches. This=0A>- - wiring is depicted in Figure Z-11.=0A>=0A >- - If you study the wiring in Z-11, you'll see that the=0A>- - st arter cannot be cranked unless the right mag switch=0A>- - is OFF. Then , raising the left mag switch from the stable,=0A>- - mid position (mag hot) to full up, the starter contactor=0A>- - is energized. The spring -loaded, full-up position of the=0A>- - right mag siwtch is not used. =0A>=0A>- - I used two identical switches so that the magneto=0A>- - switches for normal flight ops are BOTH in the mid=0A>- - position. =0A>=0A>=0A>- Bob . . . =0A>=0A> ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:36 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Halogen bulbs with wig wag circuitry....failure mode From: "skywagon" Since this bulb failure issue was my original message and problem, I can add only another piece of mechanical evidence that may or may not have anything to do with the H7604 filament failures.... 1. Under magnification, both filaments separated not in the coil section, but, on the short straight ends just before their connection post. 2. I do not know if the filaments (bulbs) were originally installed in the vertical or horizontal orientation. Rumor has it, that installing with the filaments vertically removes some of the mechanical stress from wing vibration and landing stresses. 3. I have installed the new H7604's with the filaments in the vertical orientation and will report in the future if this seems to extend the bulb life. David Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354827#354827 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:00 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tentative Zenith Electrical Design At 11:44 AM 10/12/2011, you wrote: >And now you have the real story. Forget most of what I said. (I >still prefer independent switches/circuits, though.) > >Thanks for the correction, Bob. Not necessarily a correction of your analysis . . . the diagram you were evaluating was not accurately quoted from Z-11. I'm glad you caught this . . . I sure didn't the first time I looked at it. Readers should keep in mind too that many FEATURES of the various Z-figures can be interchanged. There's perhaps a half dozen examples of practical magneto/starter management spread across the various drawings. The purpose of so many different z-figures is to speak to ARCHITECTURES . . . not detailed features. Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.