AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sat 11/19/11


Total Messages Posted: 16



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     0. 12:42 AM - The Value of a Forum...  (Matt Dralle)
     1. 06:23 AM - Re: Antennae continuity (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     2. 06:47 AM - Re: Antennae continuity (Dennis Ramsey)
     3. 07:11 AM - Toggle switch terminal numbering (Bubblehead)
     4. 09:02 AM - Re: Re: antenna connections (Lynn Cole)
     5. 09:53 AM - Re: Antennae continuity (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     6. 09:58 AM - Re: Toggle switch terminal numbering (Tim Andres)
     7. 10:09 AM - Re: Toggle switch terminal numbering (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     8. 10:43 AM - RAMI vs. Dorne-Margolin vs. DIY Antennas (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     9. 11:31 AM - Re: Antennae continuity (Dennis Ramsey)
    10. 11:39 AM - Re: RAMI vs. Dorne-Margolin vs. DIY Antennas (Dennis Ramsey)
    11. 11:43 AM - Re: Antennae continuity (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    12. 12:44 PM - Re: RAMI vs. Dorne-Margolin vs. DIY Antennas (Jeff B.)
    13. 02:01 PM - Re: Re: Garmin 400 series simulator (Sean Stephens)
    14. 02:58 PM - VOR voice modulation (tomcostanza)
    15. 10:41 PM - Re: VOR voice modulation (MikeRV6-A)
 
 
 


Message 0


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    Time: 12:42:04 AM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: The Value of a Forum...
    If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some magazine or even a dinner out. Arn't the Lists worth at least that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that same amount and get a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to think of it, you do... Won't you take a minute to make your Contribution today and support YOUR Lists? Please make a Contribution today at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through YOUR generosity!! Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin.


    Message 1


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    Time: 06:23:18 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Antennae continuity
    At 01:39 AM 11/19/2011, you wrote: Bob, the antennae is a RA Miller AV-17. More information...when I removed the coax and held my multimeter probe to the center connection and checked continuity to the antennae rod, I still get no continuity. So either the antennae is bad or there is something inherent in the design that electrically isolates the external skin of the rod. Good data point . . . and given that the data does not comport with things we understand about 'simple' antennas, it might prompt further experiments to satisfy a curiosity . . . and to confirm the antenna's performance. Do you, or somebody you know, have access to an antenna analyzer or perhaps a Bird thruline watt meter? Bob . . .


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:47:24 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Antennae continuity
    From: Dennis Ramsey <doramsey@gmail.com>
    Bob, I have sent a note out to my friends to see if there is one available but I dont have one. Would it be a reasonable check to simply hook up my hand held radio to the antennae and see if I can pick up traffic. With no antenna, I would think I would hear nothing. On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com**> > > At 01:39 AM 11/19/2011, you wrote: > > Bob, the antennae is a RA Miller AV-17. More information...when I > removed the coax and held my multimeter probe to the center connection and > checked continuity to the antennae rod, I still get no continuity. So > either the antennae is bad or there is something inherent in the design > that electrically isolates the external skin of the rod. > > Good data point . . . and given that the data > does not comport with things we understand about > 'simple' antennas, it might prompt further > experiments to satisfy a curiosity . . . and > to confirm the antenna's performance. > > Do you, or somebody you know, have access to > an antenna analyzer or perhaps a Bird thruline > watt meter? > > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:11:56 AM PST US
    Subject: Toggle switch terminal numbering
    From: "Bubblehead" <jdalmansr@gmail.com>
    I'm rewiring the panel in my RV 8 to Z-11 and am getting some confusing results on a couple of the 2-10 switches. I would like to verify the numbering of the terminals. With the keyway up, looking at the back of the switch, I am numbering the terminals starting in the lower left corner going up the left side, then from lower right to upper right. This is what is shown on a document "Micro Switch vs. Carling Terminal Numbering..." and Z-19. Am i doing the numbering correctly? These are switches with Fast On tabs from B&C. Thanks, John -------- John Keller, TX RV-8 N247TD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358519#358519


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:02:16 AM PST US
    From: Lynn Cole <LynnCole@foxvalley.net>
    Subject: Re: antenna connections
    A magnet sticks to the shaft of my car's antenna. Your idea of a metallic wrap on a fiberglass rod might save a little weight in an airplane. Lynn Cole LynnCole@foxvalley.net On Nov 18, 2011, at 6:26 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 02:26 PM 11/18/2011, you wrote: >> The antenna, itself tapers from about 0.175" at the base to about >> 0.100" at the tip. The wrap is quite thin - about 0.005-0.008" >> diameter, and the pitch of the spiral is about 1 inch. The wrap >> is solidly bonded to the antenna for its entire length. I suspect >> that it adds some drag to the antenna, but in the car the added >> drag would be very minor compared to the overall drag of the >> vehicle. It's a good question as to why we don't see such a wrap >> on aircraft antennae. > > It's possible that the wrap we see on car antennas > has two purposes. The first being aerodynamic as > previously explored. The second may be that the wrap > is also a metallic conductor that serves as > the antenna supported on a Fiberglas rod. > > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:53:25 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Antennae continuity
    At 08:44 AM 11/19/2011, you wrote: >Bob, I have sent a note out to my friends to see if there is one >available but I dont have one. Would it be a reasonable check to >simply hook up my hand held radio to the antennae and see if I can >pick up traffic. With no antenna, I would think I would hear nothing. That's a good toe-in-the-water test but without side-by-side comparison with a known good antenna it's pretty "coarse" data. Being a manufactured antenna by a reputable firm, it's highly unlikely that the antenna is bad. I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. This discussion is more academic than practical but it helps our readers achieve a better sense of how all these simple-ideas fit together. Bob . . .


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:58:38 AM PST US
    From: Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Toggle switch terminal numbering
    I had my panel CNC cut with the locating tabs on the top, which I assumed was correct for all of the Carling/BNC switches. I found out later that is not correct, some are "OFF" in the "UP" position with the locating tab on top. I was able to just replace those SPST with DPDT and fix the issue as I wanted everything that was "OFF" to be "DOWN". Bob has legend on his web site for the terminal numbers, here's a copy if it goes thru. Tim ________________________________ From: Bubblehead <jdalmansr@gmail.com> Sent: Sat, November 19, 2011 7:09:20 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Toggle switch terminal numbering I'm rewiring the panel in my RV 8 to Z-11 and am getting some confusing results on a couple of the 2-10 switches. I would like to verify the numbering of the terminals. With the keyway up, looking at the back of the switch, I am numbering the terminals starting in the lower left corner going up the left side, then from lower right to upper right. This is what is shown on a document "Micro Switch vs. Carling Terminal Numbering..." and Z-19. Am i doing the numbering correctly? These are switches with Fast On tabs from B&C. Thanks, John -------- John Keller, TX RV-8 N247TD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358519#358519


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:09:05 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Toggle switch terminal numbering
    At 09:09 AM 11/19/2011, you wrote: > >I'm rewiring the panel in my RV 8 to Z-11 and am getting some >confusing results on a couple of the 2-10 switches. I would like to >verify the numbering of the terminals. The best way to verify any switch is with a continuity test. I believe the differences between Carling vs. Microswitch went away some years ago In July 2008 there was conversation here on the list where someone noted that a 700-2-10 switch from Carling did not conform to the difference-data published earlier. I think I recall pulling a recent Carling switch from my inventory and found that the later production conformed to the legacy 'standard' offered by other manufacturers. This prompted a letter to Carling http://tinyurl.com/7fvc2wt for which I received no reply. I should probably take those 'difference' papers down. They apply only to S700 series switches produced some time ago . . . but no doubt still flying. In any case my friend, YOU have a switch and I presume an ohmmeter which which you can accomplish tests that the rest of us can only guess about. Fortunately, it's not complex . . . it's either heads or tails! Bob . . .


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:43:38 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: RAMI vs. Dorne-Margolin vs. DIY Antennas
    I've posted Don's data to the website. Just to make sure this data gets 'tags' in the Matronics archives I offer the following links: http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/Rami_AV-17_SWR_Plot.jpg http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/Rami_and_D+M_Matching_Networks.jpg It's interesting to note that the VSWR plot is below 2:1 over a large portion of the target frequency range. Creative matching can elevate the production article a step above the simple DIY "whisker." Bob . . .


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:31:12 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Antennae continuity
    From: Dennis Ramsey <doramsey@gmail.com>
    I set up handheld as a scanner for local frequencies and it came in reasonable loud and clear when aircraft flew overhead (and that is with airplane in the hanger). I did a test with a neighbor and his handheld and he could not really tell the difference between the standard whip antenna, the antennae that is the subject of this discussion and my second com antennae which is a Bob Archer antenna buried in my vertical stabilizer. So it seems it is working as an antenna, but if I can chase down some test equipment, I will have a better idea how good of an antenna it is. On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com**> > > At 08:44 AM 11/19/2011, you wrote: > >> Bob, I have sent a note out to my friends to see if there is one >> available but I dont have one. Would it be a reasonable check to simply >> hook up my hand held radio to the antennae and see if I can pick up >> traffic. With no antenna, I would think I would hear nothing. >> > > That's a good toe-in-the-water test but without > side-by-side comparison with a known good antenna > it's pretty "coarse" data. > > Being a manufactured antenna by a reputable firm, > it's highly unlikely that the antenna is bad. > I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. This discussion > is more academic than practical but it helps > our readers achieve a better sense of how all these > simple-ideas fit together. > > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:39:44 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: RAMI vs. Dorne-Margolin vs. DIY Antennas
    From: Dennis Ramsey <doramsey@gmail.com>
    So if I understand his schematic, this there is a capacitor between the BNC and the antenna on the AV-17. I am no EE, but wouldn't it make sense that with the low energy of a multimeter that you would show no continuity between the center conductor and the antenna rod? On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com**> > > I've posted Don's data to the website. Just to make > sure this data gets 'tags' in the Matronics archives > I offer the following links: > > http://aeroelectric.com/**Pictures/Antenna/Rami_AV-17_**SWR_Plot.jpg<http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/Rami_AV-17_SWR_Plot.jpg> > > http://aeroelectric.com/**Pictures/Antenna/Rami_and_D+M_** > Matching_Networks.jpg<http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/Rami_and_D+M_Matching_Networks.jpg> > > It's interesting to note that the VSWR plot is below > 2:1 over a large portion of the target frequency range. > Creative matching can elevate the production article > a step above the simple DIY "whisker." > > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 11:43:22 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Antennae continuity
    At 01:27 PM 11/19/2011, you wrote: >I set up handheld as a scanner for local frequencies and it came in >reasonable loud and clear when aircraft flew overhead (and that is >with airplane in the hanger). I did a test with a neighbor and his >handheld and he could not really tell the difference between the >standard whip antenna, the antennae that is the subject of this >discussion and my second com antennae which is a Bob Archer antenna >buried in my vertical stabilizer. So it seems it is working as an >antenna, but if I can chase down some test equipment, I will have a >better idea how good of an antenna it is. Good sleuthing. If you are able to get some test equipment, do a 'sweep' over the frequency range of interest at, say 0.5 Mhz steps and record the data. Do the Archer antenna too. Take your measurements from the cockpit . . . i.e. at the transceiver end of the feed line. It will be interesting to plot that data for comparison with the data Don supplied us. But if you've got 'better' things to do with your $time$ for achieving or keeping your airplane capable of flight, I wouldn't put this endeavor very far up on the list of things to do. Bob . . .


    Message 12


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    Time: 12:44:49 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: RAMI vs. Dorne-Margolin vs. DIY Antennas
    From: "Jeff B." <loboflyer@gmail.com>
    On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Dennis Ramsey <doramsey@gmail.com> wrote: > So if I understand his schematic, this there is a capacitor between the > BNC and the antenna on the AV-17. I am no EE, but wouldn't it make sense > that with the low energy of a multimeter that you would show no continuity > between the center conductor and the antenna rod? > This is true. An ohmmeter would show an open circuit since a meter measures at low frequencies (DC!). A question for the list: Antennas that are DC coupled to ground (e.g. through an inductor) have a discharge path for charges that build up on the antenna. Clearly, Rami knows what they are doing and has a working product. How does an antenna like this bleed off static? Is the air interface more important than the electrical interface in this regard? -Jeff-


    Message 13


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    Time: 02:01:21 PM PST US
    From: Sean Stephens <sean@stephensville.com>
    Subject: Re: Garmin 400 series simulator
    Thanks for this link. I use RealityXP's 430W add-on for X-Plane as I am in the process of getting my IFR ticket and it really helps to fly the approaches in X-Plane with a nice simulated 430W that matches what's in the actual plane. Building and doing IFR training at the same time can be tough, but at least it keeps me current while building. Getting the database updated finally is nice. Thanks again! -Sean RV-10 #40303 (panel wiring) On 11/18/11 1:04 PM, Brantel wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brantel"<bchesteen@hughes.net> > > You are in luck....I figured out how to upgrade it by using the database that is in the new 650/750 simulator. > > Check out this thread: > > http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=76306&highlight=Simulator+database > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358392#358392 > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 02:58:02 PM PST US
    Subject: VOR voice modulation
    From: "tomcostanza" <Tom@CostanzaAndAssociates.com>
    Hi, Can anyone tell me how the voice/ID is modulated for a VOR. Is it just plain vanilla AM? I want to bench check my wiring. Thanks -------- Clear Skies, Tom Costanza Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358543#358543


    Message 15


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    Time: 10:41:44 PM PST US
    From: "MikeRV6-A" <mikerv6a@ao-cs.com>
    Subject: Re: VOR voice modulation
    VHF Omnirange voice uses plain AM, 30% modulation level. Wikipedia has a well-detailed description of this and other VOR technical features. Mike > <Tom@CostanzaAndAssociates.com> > Hi, > Can anyone tell me how the voice/ID is modulated for a VOR. Is it just > plain vanilla AM? I want to bench check my wiring. > Thanks > -------- > Clear Skies, > Tom Costanza >




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