Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:11 AM - Re: First Engine Start Problem (Glen Matejcek)
2. 03:00 AM - Re: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... (Peter Pengilly)
3. 05:07 AM - Re: Relays (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 05:15 AM - Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... ()
5. 06:07 AM - Re: Re: First Engine Start Problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 06:39 AM - Re: Re: First Engine Start Problem (Dan Billingsley)
7. 07:29 AM - Re: First Engine Start Problem (user9253)
8. 08:01 AM - 12v to 24v DC-DC converter circuit ()
9. 09:30 AM - Re: 12v to 24v DC-DC converter circuit (Peter Mather)
10. 09:39 AM - Re: 12v to 24v DC-DC converter circuit (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 11:54 AM - Re: Relays (bnelson79@charter.net)
12. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: First Engine Start Problem (Dan Billingsley)
13. 05:57 PM - Re: Re: First Engine Start Problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 06:35 PM - Main Battery Contactor (cdnch701builder)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: First Engine Start Problem |
Howdy-
Re:
we decided to
>then let the starter do the work. The starter turned the engine over well,
>however, I was dismayed when my whole panel of avionics went dead. I of cou
>rse quit cranking and began troubleshooting. It didn't take long to find th
>at the fuseable link off the Batt Contactor (heading to the E-Bus) burned t
>hrough. I went ahead and bypassed the link with 16 AWG and was able to comp
>lete a successful first engine start.
I'm on the road at the moment (beautiful dowtown Bahrain...) and don't have the
relevant docs with me, but if Z-16 has the E bus fed through a diode down stream
from the battery contactor and / or through the E bus switch from upstream
of the battery contactor, and the diode were installed reverse biased.....
Without other explicit details, this and the idea about engine flail bringing a
grounded chunk of hardware into physical contact with an energized bit of the
E bus architecture are all I can think of.
Glen Matejcek
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... |
You could just cut the head off the pop rivet that Van's recommends and
stick that on with epoxy (or double sided tape to start with)?
Peter
On 28/12/2011 05:12, Matt Dralle wrote:
> At 07:39 PM 12/26/2011 Monday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>> Dear Listers,
>>
>> I've been flying the new 10" Dynon Skyview in the RV-6 for a few weeks now and
it seems like the airspeed is reading maybe 10mph fast. The GS always reads
10mph or more slower than the True airspeed, no matter which way I fly with
respect to the current wind. Looking through the configuration options on the
Skyview, I'm not seeing parameters to calibrate the airspeed. If the airspeed
were *slow* compared to the GS, I could envision making adjustments to the Pitot
tube to get it in better alignment with slipstream. But *fast* is a head
scratcher. If there's no electronic configuration parameters to adjust, what
do you do? Are there Pitot line "attenuators" like for RF in coax? ;-)
>>
>> Matt
>
> Listers,
>
> Thank you for all the great suggestions on resolving this airspeed issue! I
took a look at the static ports on the RV-6 today and found that they are done
using a flush head screw with a hole drilled in the center on either side of
the fuselage. They do *not* protrude from the side of the plane at all. They
are totally flush (see attached picture). Just for fun, I whipped up a couple
of quick test deals using a 3/16" washer and some electrical tape. I poked
a 1/16" hole in the center of the tape and then put the washer centered over the
static ports on both sides of the fuselage (see attached pictures). Then,
I went flying on this beautiful December 27 day in California!
>
> I didn't have time to do any real scientific multi-leg testing, but I was amazed
that the True Airspeed is now falling in a much more believable range compared
to the GPS-derived ground speed. On one cross-country leg, I had an exactly
90 degree crosswind component and the True Airspeed and GPS Ground Speed were
tracking exactly the same. Yahoo!
>
> Obviously I need to do some additional, more scientific measurements and probably
come up with a slightly more "permanent" washer arrangement, but the early
returns are very promising! :-)
>
> Thanks again for all the great feedback!
>
> Matt
>
>
> -
> Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 42+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
Message 3
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At 10:48 PM 12/27/2011, you wrote:
>Picture #1 is the old system that approximates mine, though there are some
>additional C.B. switches and fuses in some lines. #2 is what I would like
>to go with. The DPST Master Switch would be replaced with a SPST 5 Amp C.B.
>switch and 16 would be a simple Master Switch connected to the battery
>relay. Any thoughts, suggestions, or warnings would be appreciated.
>Bill
Okay, the first thing I would do is put those two drawings
in the round-file. These are typical "how things work" illustrations
produced by individuals who are very good at what they do . . .
build engines . . . but are not cogent system integrators.
The drawings are not incorrect . . . but they fall far short
of the details and reasoning processes that should be
applied to the vetting of your electrical system.
Suggest you start with Figure Z-12 . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z12M.pdf
. . . and see where it doesn't meet YOUR design goals
for how the electrical system should function.
If you have no particular wish for an operating feature that
is not addressed by Z-16, then you're good to go. If there
are questions, let's talk about them here on the List. The
externally regulated alternator can be replaced with the
internally regulated alternator depicted in the Rotax drawings.
The 18A PM alternator can replace the 20A standby alternator
depicted in Z-12. But the architecture shown in Z-12 is a
good starting point. I could do a new Z-figure that is seeded
from the Rotax drawing for dual alternators.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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Subject: | Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... |
12/28/2011
Hello Matt, I think that you are on the right track. The correct approach is
to use a semi circular wedge either before or aft of the static port in
order to achieve the results required. Here is the sequence that I went
through with my two static ports (one on each side of the fuselage) in order
to lower my airspeed indicator airspeed indication before I was satisfied
with the results:
1) Taped over one side static port and test flew.
2) Removed the first tape, taped over the other side static port and test
flew.
3) Put wedges aft of both side static ports using double sided sticky tape
and test flew.
4) Removed wedge from one side static port and test flew.
5) Switched the single wedge from one side static port to the other side
static port and test flew.
6) Declared victory and installed the single wedge more permanently.
Note that my focus was on good airspeed indication at landing approach
airspeeds, not at cruise airspeeds. On a calm / no wind day a check between
my airspeed indicator airspeed and my GPS ground speed on landing approach
are very nearly identical. I see no significant altimeter change indication
with airspeed change.
The next time I am out at the airport (if I remember) I will take a photo or
two of the single aluminum wedge on one of my static ports and email it to
you.
Good luck.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
=====================================================
Listers,
Thank you for all the great suggestions on resolving this airspeed issue! I
took
a look at the static ports on the RV-6 today and found that they are done
using
a flush head screw with a hole drilled in the center on either side of the
fuselage. They do *not* protrude from the side of the plane at all. They
are
totally flush (see attached picture). Just for fun, I whipped up a couple
of quick test deals using a 3/16" washer and some electrical tape. I poked
a
1/16" hole in the center of the tape and then put the washer centered over
the
static ports on both sides of the fuselage (see attached pictures). Then, I
went flying on this beautiful December 27 day in California!
I didn't have time to do any real scientific multi-leg testing, but I was
amazed
that the True Airspeed is now falling in a much more believable range
compared
to the GPS-derived ground speed. On one cross-country leg, I had an exactly
90 degree crosswind component and the True Airspeed and GPS Ground Speed
were
tracking exactly the same. Yahoo!
Obviously I need to do some additional, more scientific measurements and
probably
come up with a slightly more "permanent" washer arrangement, but the early
returns are very promising! :-)
Thanks again for all the great feedback!
Matt
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: First Engine Start Problem |
I'm on the road at the moment (beautiful dowtown Bahrain...) and
don't have the relevant docs with me, but if Z-16 has the E bus fed
through a diode down stream from the battery contactor and / or
through the E bus switch from upstream of the battery contactor, and
the diode were installed reverse biased.....
Good call Glen. I did not pick up on the
fact that the fusible link in question was
in series with the ALTERNATE feed switch . . .
which should be OPEN for all but pre-flight
tests -OR- in-flight, alternator-out operations.
Combine this closed switch with a reversed
NORMAL feed path diode could account for the
severe overload of the link.
Dan, do your e-bus feed accessories work with
the alternate feed switch OFF? If not, check
the normal feed path diode for proper polarity.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: First Engine Start Problem |
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A>________________________________=0A> From: "Robert L. Nucko
lls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>=0A>To: aeroelectric-list@matronic
s.com =0A>Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 7:03 AM=0A>Subject: Re: AeroEl
ectric-List: Re: First Engine Start Problem=0A> =0A>--> AeroElectric-List m
essage posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>I'm on the road at the moment (beautiful dowtown Bahrain...
) and don't have the relevant docs with me, but if Z-16 has the E bus fed t
hrough a diode down stream from the battery contactor and / or through the
E bus switch from upstream of the battery contactor, and the diode were ins
talled reverse biased.....=0A>=0A>- Good call Glen. I did not pick up on
the=0A>- fact that the fusible link in question was=0A>- in series with
the ALTERNATE feed switch . . .=0A>- which should be OPEN for all but pr
e-flight=0A>- tests -OR- in-flight, alternator-out operations.=0A>=0A>-
Combine this closed switch with a reversed=0A>- NORMAL feed path diode c
ould account for the=0A>- severe overload of the link.=0A>=0A>- Dan, do
your e-bus feed accessories work with=0A>- the alternate feed switch OFF
? If not, check=0A>- the normal feed path diode for proper polarity.=0A>
=0A>No, the E-Bus switch must be ON in order for any of the accessories to
operate. I will take another look at the diode polarity as well. One of the
guys I am working with suggested I not turn on the E-Bus switch until Afte
r I start the engine. That could become a practice, yet it does go against
the grain of how things "should" work. Will get back with the info soon.-
- - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
=====0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: First Engine Start Problem |
> No, the E-Bus switch must be ON in order for any of the accessories to operate.
I will take another look at the diode polarity as well. One of the guys I am
working with suggested I not turn on the E-Bus switch until After I start the
engine.
The E-Bus should be energized with the E-Bus switch off and the master switch on.
If not, the diode is backwards.
Although it will not hurt anything to fly with the E-Bus switch turned on, it
is intended to be turned on only in the event that power is not available through
the diode.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361838#361838
Message 8
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Subject: | 12v to 24v DC-DC converter circuit |
Before I go off and reinvent the wheel.... does anyone have a DC-DC
converter circuit design they can share with me? A off-the-shelf unit
would be fine too.
I have a small altimeter on my natively 12v aircraft that requires 28v (as
spec'ed) for internal lighting (two tiny bulbs) and a vibrator. It does
not specify a current draw, but it cant be very much given the usage.
Thanks in advance.
-James
Berkut/Race13
www.berkut13.com
Message 9
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Subject: | 12v to 24v DC-DC converter circuit |
Have aloo0k for a LM2577 DC-DC step-up DC converter board on ebay
Best Regards
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of berkut13@berkut13.com
Sent: 28 December 2011 15:56
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 12v to 24v DC-DC converter circuit
Before I go off and reinvent the wheel.... does anyone have a DC-DC
converter circuit design they can share with me? A off-the-shelf unit
would be fine too.
I have a small altimeter on my natively 12v aircraft that requires 28v (as
spec'ed) for internal lighting (two tiny bulbs) and a vibrator. It does not specify
a current draw, but it cant be very much given the usage.
Thanks in advance.
-James
Berkut/Race13
www.berkut13.com
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: 12v to 24v DC-DC converter circuit |
At 09:56 AM 12/28/2011, you wrote:
>
>Before I go off and reinvent the wheel.... does anyone have a DC-DC
>converter circuit design they can share with me? A off-the-shelf unit
>would be fine too.
>
>I have a small altimeter on my natively 12v aircraft that requires 28v (as
>spec'ed) for internal lighting (two tiny bulbs) and a vibrator. It does
>not specify a current draw, but it cant be very much given the usage.
There are perhaps hundreds of possibilities. One such
device is illustrated here:
http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/UEI15-120-Q12P-C/811-1868-5-ND/1980326
It's an ISOLATED output dc-dc converter rated for 9-36v input and
12v out at 1.3A.
You can wire this such that it's in series with the 14v input
giving you a total of 26v output.
CAUTION
As supplied, it MIGHT need a metallic enclosure + RF filters
to keep internal thrashings from radiating into other systems.
You'll want to survey the operation of your radios with this
device ON vs OFF and make sure it is not engaged in nepharious
behaviors.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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Bob,
Thanks for the response and the schematic. But as I look at it I pinked
out everything that my setup doesn't have and ended up with over half
the diagram pinked out. Your diagram does show me where and how the two
relays (contactors) fit into the system though and that is helpful.
I've also got the rotary ACS starter switch to work with rather then
just a simple switch or push button.
What makes the most sense is adding the battery relay (connected to
battery, master switch, power bus and starter relay) and having the
starter relay connected to battery relay, starter, internal alternator
20 amp capacitor to internal alternator, starter switch, and external
alternator 60 amp fuse to external alternator. Then schematic #2 that I
sent you seems to make the most sense to me.
Any other comments are greatly appreciated. Thanks again.
Bill
On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 5:04 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 10:48 PM 12/27/2011, you wrote:
>> Picture #1 is the old system that approximates mine, though there are
>> some
>> additional C.B. switches and fuses in some lines. #2 is what I would
>> like
>> to go with. The DPST Master Switch would be replaced with a SPST 5
>> Amp C.B.
>> switch and 16 would be a simple Master Switch connected to the
>> battery
>> relay. Any thoughts, suggestions, or warnings would be appreciated.
>> Bill
>
> Okay, the first thing I would do is put those two drawings
> in the round-file. These are typical "how things work" illustrations
> produced by individuals who are very good at what they do . . .
> build engines . . . but are not cogent system integrators.
>
> The drawings are not incorrect . . . but they fall far short
> of the details and reasoning processes that should be
> applied to the vetting of your electrical system.
>
> Suggest you start with Figure Z-12 . . .
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z12M.pdf
>
> . . . and see where it doesn't meet YOUR design goals
> for how the electrical system should function.
>
> If you have no particular wish for an operating feature that
> is not addressed by Z-16, then you're good to go. If there
> are questions, let's talk about them here on the List. The
> externally regulated alternator can be replaced with the
> internally regulated alternator depicted in the Rotax drawings.
> The 18A PM alternator can replace the 20A standby alternator
> depicted in Z-12. But the architecture shown in Z-12 is a
> good starting point. I could do a new Z-figure that is seeded
> from the Rotax drawing for dual alternators.
>
>
> Bob . . .
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: First Engine Start Problem |
Bob and Joe, thank you for pointing out both over loading ( I went back and
read note 12) and the fact that the E-bus should be working with the Alter
nate switch off. To tell the truth, I have not tried it that way (w/just th
e Master on). If it does not work I do see that would mean the diode betwee
n the two buses is in backwards. I did check the diode position on the Batt
Contactor and it IS installed the right way. I now have at the very least,
some changing of circuits over to the Main bus. Will report back on findin
gs after tomorrow.-=0ADan=0A=0A=0A=0A>________________________________=0A
> From: user9253 <fran4sew@banyanol.com>=0A>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics
.com =0A>Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 8:25 AM=0A>Subject: AeroElectri
c-List: Re: First Engine Start Problem=0A> =0A>--> AeroElectric-List messag
e posted by: "user9253" <fran4sew@banyanol.com>=0A>=0A>=0A>> No, the E-Bus
switch must be ON in order for any of the accessories to operate. I will ta
ke another look at the diode polarity as well. One of the guys I am working
with suggested I not turn on the E-Bus switch until After I start the engi
ne.=0A>=0A>The E-Bus should be energized with the E-Bus switch off and the
master switch on.- If not, the diode is backwards.=0A>- Although it wil
l not hurt anything to fly with the E-Bus switch turned on, it is intended
to be turned on only in the event that power is not available through the d
iode.=0A>Joe=0A>=0A>--------=0A>Joe Gores=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Read this topi
c online here:=0A>=0A>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361838#
=========================0A
- - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
=====0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: First Engine Start Problem |
At 07:39 PM 12/28/2011, you wrote:
>Bob and Joe, thank you for pointing out both over loading ( I went
>back and read note 12) and the fact that the E-bus should be working
>with the Alternate switch off. To tell the truth, I have not tried
>it that way (w/just the Master on). If it does not work I do see
>that would mean the diode between the two buses is in backwards. I
>did check the diode position on the Batt Contactor and it IS
>installed the right way. I now have at the very least, some changing
>of circuits over to the Main bus. Will report back on findings after tomorrow.
Blowing a fusible link is a rather non-trivial
event. 22AWG wire is capable of considerable
more current than the legacy rating in wire
bundles of 5A would suggest.
It would be interesting to get a real current
measurement of all your goodies before you
start moving things. Clip an ammeter across
the alternate feed switch while the master
switch is off.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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Subject: | Main Battery Contactor |
Hey Bob...
I'm looking at Z-12! Can you tell me the difference between the Battery Contactor(no
number)
on Z-12 and B&C's - S701-1? Are they the same... and Can the S701-1 be used
for the main
battery contactor?
Thanks
Ron
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