---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/15/12: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:13 AM - Re: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? (Jon McLin) 2. 11:41 AM - Re: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? (Noel Loveys) 3. 12:11 PM - Re: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? (bob noffs) 4. 01:08 PM - Re: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? (Mike Nellis) 5. 01:21 PM - Re: Noise in damp weather (user9253) 6. 02:32 PM - Re: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 7. 04:44 PM - Re: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 05:21 PM - Re: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? (Charlie England) 9. 07:46 PM - Re: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? (Noel Loveys) 10. 07:47 PM - Re: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? (Noel Loveys) 11. 09:28 PM - Re: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 09:36 PM - Re: Inexpensive Runway lighting (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 10:12 PM - Re: Re: HID light noise (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 10:16 PM - Re: Electrical Gremlins (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 10:24 PM - Re: Inexpensive Runway lighting (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 10:52 PM - Re: Inexpensive Runway lighting (Daniel Hooper) 17. 11:13 PM - Re: Inexpensive Runway lighting (rayj) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:26 AM PST US From: Jon McLin Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? > Sounds like Silicone tape. (aka rescue tape) Aircraft Spruce carries it. Good luck! > Thanks, but no, it's not silicone tape. That stuff fuses together permanently. This stuff is easily unwrapped. I found some earlier notes I made - the Cessna stuff is apparently 12 mils thick. Where it was used in the cabin it (installed perhaps 34 years ago) it remains flexible, and could probably be reused. Under the cowl it was pretty hard, and cracked when I unwrapped it. Online I find "dry vinyl" tape for wire harnesses, which apparently sticks to itself but can be easily unwrapped. That's the desired behavior. The dry vinyl tape that I can find is only available in opaque black or yellow, and is much thinner (4 mils). ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:41:50 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? Sure doesn't sound like it would pass legal inspection. Adhesive tapes are not supposed to be used at all. Not for connecting wires or binding them together in bundles. For that there is coraseal nylon ties and wax cord. Noel From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of halbenjamin@optonline.net Sent: January 15, 2012 2:02 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? Jon, Sounds like Silicone tape. (aka rescue tape) Aircraft Spruce carries it. Good luck! Hal Benjamin - RV-4 Long Island, NY Starting engine soon - Should be flying this year! ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon McLin Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? > > Wire bundles in my Cessna are in some places spiral wrapped in a > white translucent tape. The tape is not the plastic spiral wrap > that is commonly available for wire harnesses; nor is it regular > electrical tape. The thickness and "stickiness" is somewhere in > between - the tape sticks to itself enough that the wrap holds, > but it can be readily unwrapped. It's roughly 1" wide. I > estimate the thickness at somewhere between 5 and 10 mils. > > What is this, and where can I purchase some? > > Thanks, > Jon McLin > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:17 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? From: bob noffs i don't talk to many pilots that use the wax cord but i do and it is worth a look. as i understand it is still used in military planes. it has a tensile strength of 80 lbs compared to a wire tie at 18 lbs. a spool will last a lifetime and several wraps will secure about anything. its cross section is about the same as flat rib lacing. bob noffs On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 1:38 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > Sure doesn=92t sound like it would pass legal inspection. Adhesive tape s > are not supposed to be used at all. Not for connecting wires or binding > them together in bundles. For that there is coraseal nylon ties and wax > cord.**** > > ** ** > > Noel**** > > ** ** > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of * > halbenjamin@optonline.net > *Sent:* January 15, 2012 2:02 AM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape?**** > > ** ** > > Jon,**** > > Sounds like Silicone tape. (aka rescue tape) Aircraft Spruce carries it. > Good luck!**** > > **** > > Hal Benjamin - RV-4**** > > Long Island, NY**** > > Starting engine soon - Should be flying this year! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jon McLin > Date: Saturday, January 14, 2012 8:53 pm > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > > > > > Wire bundles in my Cessna are in some places spiral wrapped in a > > white translucent tape. The tape is not the plastic spiral wrap > > that is commonly available for wire harnesses; nor is it regular > > electrical tape. The thickness and "stickiness" is somewhere in > > between - the tape sticks to itself enough that the wrap holds, > > but it can be readily unwrapped. It's roughly 1" wide. I > > estimate the thickness at somewhere between 5 and 10 mils. > > > > What is this, and where can I purchase some? > > > > Thanks, > > Jon McLin > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ========== > > > > > > > > **** > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:05 PM PST US From: Mike Nellis Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? I use the wax cord as well. There is something nostalgic and relaxing about lacing up a section of wiring. I use tie wraps, loosely positioned to hold them in position until the loom is ready. Mike > i don't talk to many pilots that use the wax cord but i do and it is > worth a look. as i understand it is still used in military planes. it > has a tensile strength of 80 lbs compared to a wire tie at 18 lbs. a > spool will last a lifetime and several wraps will secure about > anything. its cross section is about the same as flat rib lacing. > bob noffs ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:21:37 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Noise in damp weather From: "user9253" Gavin, It seems that you have found the problem with the loose alternator connection. The AC ripple voltage is much larger when one of the alternator wires is not connected. It has been my experience that a threaded fastener that is 1/4 turn loose can cause problems. It is not a good idea to run the engine and alternator with the battery disconnected. The battery helps to stabilize the alternator output. You asked, > "Maybe I don't have anything to worry about?" Not if everything is working to your satisfaction. The vast majority of electrical problems are due to bad connections. Good job fixing it. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363890#363890 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:32:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi Jon Is it perhaps Teflon Tape? See Aircraft Spruce and Ssearch Teflon Tape, it is adhesive backed. You can also have a look at www.mcmaster.com. Ron Parigoris > > >> Sounds like Silicone tape. (aka rescue tape) Aircraft Spruce carries it. >> Good luck! >> > Thanks, but no, it's not silicone tape. That stuff fuses together > permanently. This stuff is easily unwrapped. > > I found some earlier notes I made - the Cessna stuff is apparently 12 mils > thick. Where it was used in the cabin it (installed perhaps 34 years ago) > it remains flexible, and could probably be reused. Under the cowl it was > pretty hard, and cracked when I unwrapped it. > > Online I find "dry vinyl" tape for wire harnesses, which apparently sticks > to itself but can be easily unwrapped. That's the desired behavior. The > dry vinyl tape that I can find is only available in opaque black or > yellow, and is much thinner (4 mils). > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:40 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? At 07:37 PM 1/14/2012, you wrote: > >Wire bundles in my Cessna are in some places spiral wrapped in a >white translucent tape. The tape is not the plastic spiral wrap >that is commonly available for wire harnesses; nor is it regular >electrical tape. The thickness and "stickiness" is somewhere in >between - the tape sticks to itself enough that the wrap holds, but >it can be readily unwrapped. It's roughly 1" wide. I estimate the >thickness at somewhere between 5 and 10 mils. At Boeing in 1961 we called that stuff "Irvolite". I'm sure this was a trade name. I've also heard it referred to as "Sirco". Also a trade name. Given that we were using this stuff on the B-52, it's a certainty that it has a generic name further identified by a mil-spec. The stuff came in both flat wrap (tape) and sleeve (tubing) forms and the material of choice for adding extra insulation and/or scuff protection. The stuff was mildly self-bonding to itself but we always secured the end of the wrap with a string-tie. It's not as chemically and thermally robust as the soft silicone tape in common use today, at the same time it's mechanical robustness is superior to silicone. I've not seen a 'fresh' roll of it in a very long time. I've not observed its use on any airplane at Beech in many years. Its pedigree is from the Polyurethane/Vinyl era . . . not something we would see on a modern TC aircraft. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:10 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? Velcro works great as a temporary wrap; just peel it open to add wire. (Don't tell anyone, but it can work fine as a permanent wrap, too.) Charlie On 01/15/2012 03:03 PM, Mike Nellis wrote: > > I use the wax cord as well. There is something nostalgic and relaxing > about lacing up a section of wiring. I use tie wraps, loosely > positioned to hold them in position until the loom is ready. > > Mike > >> i don't talk to many pilots that use the wax cord but i do and it is >> worth a look. as i understand it is still used in military planes. it >> has a tensile strength of 80 lbs compared to a wire tie at 18 lbs. a >> spool will last a lifetime and several wraps will secure about >> anything. its cross section is about the same as flat rib lacing. >> bob noffs > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:55 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? My preference is the wax cord but as with a lot of things it does take some practice to get to install it properly. It has other pluses over the nylon tie wraps You will never slice a hand open while rooting around in an engine bay that has coraseal and wax cord used. I am one of the ones who has received my fair share of slices on tie wraps. One easy way to tell if it will pass inspection is to check and see if tape of any kind is listed in the Maintenance Manual.. If it's not there and you use it without an STC you may find your plane grounded and according to Mr. Murphy it will only happen at the worst possible time. I've seen large aircraft grounded for a $0.11 item. Noel From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob noffs Sent: January 15, 2012 4:38 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? i don't talk to many pilots that use the wax cord but i do and it is worth a look. as i understand it is still used in military planes. it has a tensile strength of 80 lbs compared to a wire tie at 18 lbs. a spool will last a lifetime and several wraps will secure about anything. its cross section is about the same as flat rib lacing. bob noffs On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 1:38 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: Sure doesn't sound like it would pass legal inspection. Adhesive tapes are not supposed to be used at all. Not for connecting wires or binding them together in bundles. For that there is coraseal nylon ties and wax cord. Noel From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of halbenjamin@optonline.net Sent: January 15, 2012 2:02 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? Jon, Sounds like Silicone tape. (aka rescue tape) Aircraft Spruce carries it. Good luck! Hal Benjamin - RV-4 Long Island, NY Starting engine soon - Should be flying this year! ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon McLin Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? > > Wire bundles in my Cessna are in some places spiral wrapped in a > white translucent tape. The tape is not the plastic spiral wrap > that is commonly available for wire harnesses; nor is it regular > electrical tape. The thickness and "stickiness" is somewhere in > between - the tape sticks to itself enough that the wrap holds, > but it can be readily unwrapped. It's roughly 1" wide. I > estimate the thickness at somewhere between 5 and 10 mils. > > What is this, and where can I purchase some? > > Thanks, > Jon McLin > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > > ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:26 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? Another thing about the use of tape is it will hold heat in a bundle so if it is used not only may it dry out and fall off but it will also change the wire spec for current carried on any particular wire in a bundle. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Nellis Sent: January 15, 2012 5:34 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? I use the wax cord as well. There is something nostalgic and relaxing about lacing up a section of wiring. I use tie wraps, loosely positioned to hold them in position until the loom is ready. Mike > i don't talk to many pilots that use the wax cord but i do and it is > worth a look. as i understand it is still used in military planes. it > has a tensile strength of 80 lbs compared to a wire tie at 18 lbs. a > spool will last a lifetime and several wraps will secure about > anything. its cross section is about the same as flat rib lacing. > bob noffs ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:09 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? At 09:39 PM 1/15/2012, you wrote: >My preference is the wax cord but as with a lot of things it does >take some practice to get to install it properly. It has other >pluses over the nylon tie wraps You will never slice a hand open >while rooting around in an engine bay that has coraseal and wax cord >used. I am one of the ones who has received my fair share of slices >on tie wraps. > Here's a link to a tread on the topic a few years ago: http://tinyurl.com/7a89njo The "waxed cord" commonly found in military and domestic production aircraft is probably Mil-T-43435 as described below in the Aircraft Spruce Catalog Emacs! . . . and the Braden Emacs! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:04 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Inexpensive Runway lighting At 11:42 AM 1/13/2012, you wrote: > >But reflective-only lights are zero help when you're trying to just >FIND the airport at night! That is no fun at all. There's where your GPS comes in. While I was still flying a lot off of 1K1, I crafted a GPS aided approach that always put me 1/2 mile off the approach end of the runway on an aligned heading. Had the runway lights been out or non- existent, reflectors would have sufficed to complete the approach and landing. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:06 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: HID light noise At 11:51 AM 1/13/2012, you wrote: >Where do we start? Are we all talking about the same kit? Where do I put my hands on one of them? I just ordered a plug-n-play HID conversion for my minivan off of Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/6q7pueo I'll evaluate this kit for noise before I put it on the car. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:11 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electrical Gremlins > >2.) I installed an AEC 9005 LVW module per instructions but the LVW >lamp flashes (blinking LED) when I power the system from my bench >13.6v power supply. > >3.) Same as 2 above for my B&C LR3 regulator. I did all of their >troubleshooting diagnostics and everything was to spec. Do the lights go out when the alternator comes on line? Why two separate LV warning systems? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:10 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Inexpensive Runway lighting At 01:38 PM 1/13/2012, you wrote: > >And if GPS is out or a 4G cell tower is nearby??? Not sure what 4G has to do with it . . . are these known GPS antagonists? I've never experienced a GPS outage but it's been a few years. If your needing really robust lighting on the subject field, perhaps reflectors are not for you. I'm my experience here in flyover country, they would have sufficed for every night-time arrival I've ever made to my home field. One could craft some LED, solar powered REIL fixtures too. This would get you oriented with the most rudimentary of navigation devices. It doesn't take much light to be seen from 5 miles away. Hence, not much energy needs to be stored to keep a few LEDs flashing. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Inexpensive Runway lighting From: Daniel Hooper I think he's talking about the pending LightSquared issues -- they purchased bandwidth that was reserved for satellite communication some time ago, but the plans for using that spectrum was scrapped as impractical (by LightSquared), so then they began pursuing using the band as land-based 4G network spectrum. That's all well and good, except that the band is adjacent to the GPS band, and its power due to proximity tends to overwhelm the input circuitry of GPS receivers, because they were never designed to be selective enough to filter out such a thing. My personal feeling is that this will never actually see the light of day, regardless of all the lobbying LS can muster. As a suggestion to your failure analysis, I think it would be a bad idea to rely on home-grown runway lighting in a critical way -- which means diverting to a lighted muni airport would always need to be an option anyway. Thoughts? On Jan 16, 2012, at 12:21 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > At 01:38 PM 1/13/2012, you wrote: >> >> And if GPS is out or a 4G cell tower is nearby??? > > Not sure what 4G has to do with it . . . are these > known GPS antagonists? I've never experienced a GPS > outage but it's been a few years. If your needing > really robust lighting on the subject field, perhaps > reflectors are not for you. I'm my experience here in > flyover country, they would have sufficed for every > night-time arrival I've ever made to my home field. > > One could craft some LED, solar powered REIL fixtures > too. This would get you oriented with the most rudimentary > of navigation devices. It doesn't take much light to be > seen from 5 miles away. Hence, not much energy needs to > be stored to keep a few LEDs flashing. > > > Bob . . . > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:53 PM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Inexpensive Runway lighting Well, I guess the 4G thing depends on who gets elected next November.... :) JUST KIDDING!!! All I know about 4G is what I've read in the usual aviation mags. I won't try to predict what government regulators will do. As far as the runway lights, I guess it depends on how much you trust your runway lights. If you're willing to trust your work on your OBAM aircraft, I wouldn't think there would be a problem trusting your OBAM runway lights. do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 01/16/2012 12:49 AM, Daniel Hooper wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Daniel Hooper > > I think he's talking about the pending LightSquared issues -- they purchased bandwidth that was reserved for satellite communication some time ago, but the plans for using that spectrum was scrapped as impractical (by LightSquared), so then they began pursuing using the band as land-based 4G network spectrum. > That's all well and good, except that the band is adjacent to the GPS band, and its power due to proximity tends to overwhelm the input circuitry of GPS receivers, because they were never designed to be selective enough to filter out such a thing. > > My personal feeling is that this will never actually see the light of day, regardless of all the lobbying LS can muster. > > As a suggestion to your failure analysis, I think it would be a bad idea to rely on home-grown runway lighting in a critical way -- which means diverting to a lighted muni airport would always need to be an option anyway. > > Thoughts? > > > On Jan 16, 2012, at 12:21 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >> >> At 01:38 PM 1/13/2012, you wrote: >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DavidM >>> >>> And if GPS is out or a 4G cell tower is nearby??? >> >> Not sure what 4G has to do with it . . . are these >> known GPS antagonists? I've never experienced a GPS >> outage but it's been a few years. If your needing >> really robust lighting on the subject field, perhaps >> reflectors are not for you. I'm my experience here in >> flyover country, they would have sufficed for every >> night-time arrival I've ever made to my home field. >> >> One could craft some LED, solar powered REIL fixtures >> too. This would get you oriented with the most rudimentary >> of navigation devices. It doesn't take much light to be >> seen from 5 miles away. Hence, not much energy needs to >> be stored to keep a few LEDs flashing. >> >> >> Bob . . . >> >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.