---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/16/12: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:51 AM - Re: Inexpensive Runway lighting (n801bh@netzero.com) 2. 12:56 AM - Re: Inexpensive Runway lighting (n801bh@netzero.com) 3. 01:20 AM - Re: Inexpensive Runway lighting (DavidM) 4. 01:21 AM - Re: Inexpensive Runway lighting (DavidM) 5. 05:46 AM - Re: Inexpensive Runway lighting (checkn6) 6. 06:10 AM - Weak and Static on Transmission (Bill Bradburry) 7. 06:15 AM - Re: Re: Inexpensive Runway lighting (bob noffs) 8. 06:54 AM - Re: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? (James Kilford) 9. 12:04 PM - Re: Re: Inexpensive Runway lighting (David Lloyd) 10. 04:13 PM - Re: Inexpensive Runway lighting (Neal George) 11. 04:43 PM - Re: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? (Noel Loveys) 12. 05:32 PM - Re: Inexpensive Runway lighting (BobsV35B@aol.com) 13. 06:27 PM - Re: Inexpensive Runway lighting (Neal George) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:51:20 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Inexpensive Runway lighting I agree with Bob.......... I have done the exact same thing and created my own approach to my priva te airport, 2WY3... Crafting a GPS procedure is quite simple and will ge t me lined up with the precision of an ILS,,, maybe even better. IMHO. do not archive. Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Inexpensive Runway lighting olls.bob@aeroelectric.com> At 11:42 AM 1/13/2012, you wrote: > >But reflective-only lights are zero help when you're trying to just >FIND the airport at night! That is no fun at all. There's where your GPS comes in. While I was still flying a lot off of 1K1, I crafted a GPS aided approach that always put me 1/2 mile off the approach end of the runway on an aligned heading. Had the runway lights been out or non- existent, reflectors would have sufficed to complete the approach and landing. Bob . . . ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ____________________________________________________________ Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat! http://www.netzero.net/freeemail?refcd=NZTAGOUT1FREM0210 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:56:00 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Inexpensive Runway lighting ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Daniel Hooper Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Inexpensive Runway lighting com> =2E As a suggestion to your failure analysis, I think it would be a bad idea to rely on home-grown runway lighting in a critical way -- which means diverting to a lighted muni airport would always need to be an option an yway. Thoughts?..... //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Yup... if it doesn't look good or feel good, climb back up and rethink y our options... It's a PIC thing ya know.. IMHO. do not archive. ____________________________________________________________ 53 Year Old Mom Looks 33 The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4f13e565cf77d154e4cfst04vuc ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:20:34 AM PST US From: DavidM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Inexpensive Runway lighting yes, LightSquared. Multiple tests prove that their 4G cell systems do in fact render GPS unusable. One would think the FCC would stop them out of hand but LS gave the obamanation several million dollars so now he is also behind their financial success, which does not bode well for us GPS users. Even the heavies (airliners) have trouble and they are supposed to be "interference hardened." This is politics but it GREATLY interferes with my safety. David M. Daniel Hooper wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Daniel Hooper > > I think he's talking about the pending LightSquared issues -- they purchased bandwidth that was reserved for satellite communication some time ago, but the plans for using that spectrum was scrapped as impractical (by LightSquared), so then they began pursuing using the band as land-based 4G network spectrum. > That's all well and good, except that the band is adjacent to the GPS band, and its power due to proximity tends to overwhelm the input circuitry of GPS receivers, because they were never designed to be selective enough to filter out such a thing. > > My personal feeling is that this will never actually see the light of day, regardless of all the lobbying LS can muster. > > As a suggestion to your failure analysis, I think it would be a bad idea to rely on home-grown runway lighting in a critical way -- which means diverting to a lighted muni airport would always need to be an option anyway. > > Thoughts? > > > On Jan 16, 2012, at 12:21 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >> >> At 01:38 PM 1/13/2012, you wrote: >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DavidM >>> >>> And if GPS is out or a 4G cell tower is nearby??? >> Not sure what 4G has to do with it . . . are these >> known GPS antagonists? I've never experienced a GPS >> outage but it's been a few years. If your needing >> really robust lighting on the subject field, perhaps >> reflectors are not for you. I'm my experience here in >> flyover country, they would have sufficed for every >> night-time arrival I've ever made to my home field. >> >> One could craft some LED, solar powered REIL fixtures >> too. This would get you oriented with the most rudimentary >> of navigation devices. It doesn't take much light to be >> seen from 5 miles away. Hence, not much energy needs to >> be stored to keep a few LEDs flashing. >> >> >> Bob . . . >> >> >> >> > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:21:24 AM PST US From: DavidM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Inexpensive Runway lighting I've experienced a GPS outage once, but fortunately I was only on a motorcycle at the time. David Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > At 01:38 PM 1/13/2012, you wrote: >> >> And if GPS is out or a 4G cell tower is nearby??? > > Not sure what 4G has to do with it . . . are these > known GPS antagonists? I've never experienced a GPS > outage but it's been a few years. If your needing > really robust lighting on the subject field, perhaps > reflectors are not for you. I'm my experience here in > flyover country, they would have sufficed for every > night-time arrival I've ever made to my home field. > > One could craft some LED, solar powered REIL fixtures > too. This would get you oriented with the most rudimentary > of navigation devices. It doesn't take much light to be > seen from 5 miles away. Hence, not much energy needs to > be stored to keep a few LEDs flashing. > > > Bob . . . > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:07 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Inexpensive Runway lighting From: "checkn6" Gentlemen, thank you for all of your input and ideas. Our little group of intrepid night flyers is now leaning towards the solar lights with the addition of reflective tape on flexible poles. The field is seldom used and although someone in trouble may look down and see a few twinkly lights and find salvation it is not the intent. At one point we had considered getting the PCL switching system, and have it done up to the highest standards but for our little field is just seems too impractical so started looking for less expensive home grown options. We determined that we all know our way and could find it by landmarks (with a little help from our GPS) even at night due to the proximity to a busy highway, and an small but well lit business a mile from the end of the runway so the final consensus is that the lighting would primarily be for an early evening straggler that stayed out a little later than anticipated so LED solar would give ample service, and for departing earlier in the morning than the suns desire to get out of bed then reflectors would light the way while departing. Thanks again for the input and ideas. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363983#363983 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:00 AM PST US From: "Bill Bradburry" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Weak and Static on Transmission I have a GNS430W radio and Advanced Aircraft Electronics high gain antenna model 5T in my Lancair Legacy (fiberglass fuselage). The antenna is mounted vertically behind the rear bulkhead on the right side of the fuselage. Although I didn't need that much length to reach the antenna, I made the coax the recommended 13 feet or so length. (right now I cant remember the exact length recommended). This antenna is designed to be mounted inside plastic airplanes and doesn't require a ground plane. I get a "weak and lots of static but usable" reports from radio checks and on occasion, while airborne, static gets so great that I can not hear approach at all. I have had to make two NORDO landings at a Class C airport that is located under an overhanging Class B airspace due to the receiving static. The controllers are beginning to take exception to this and I need to get this fixed! :>) I have checked the SWR on the antenna and it was around 1.5 which I understand to be fine. Any ideas as to where I should begin my investigation on the source of this static? Bill B ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:53 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Inexpensive Runway lighting From: bob noffs fwiw, your idea sounds good. my wife enjoys all these solar lights available and has them around her gardens. i think some variety would work for you. bob noffs On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 7:41 AM, checkn6 wrote: > > Gentlemen, thank you for all of your input and ideas. > > Our little group of intrepid night flyers is now leaning towards the sola r > lights with the addition of reflective tape on flexible poles. The field is > seldom used and although someone in trouble may look down and see a few > twinkly lights and find salvation it is not the intent. At one point we h ad > considered getting the PCL switching system, and have it done up to the > highest standards but for our little field is just seems too impractical so > started looking for less expensive home grown options. > > We determined that we all know our way and could find it by landmarks > (with a little help from our GPS=92) even at night due to the proximity t o a > busy highway, and an small but well lit business a mile from the end of t he > runway so the final consensus is that the lighting would primarily be for > an early evening straggler that stayed out a little later than anticipate d > so LED solar would give ample service, and for departing earlier in the > morning than the suns desire to get out of bed then reflectors would ligh t > the way while departing. > > Thanks again for the input and ideas. > > Chris > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363983#363983 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:18 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? From: James Kilford This sounds a lot like rib-lacing cord. Is that an acceptable substitute? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/threads2.php James On 16 January 2012 05:22, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 09:39 PM 1/15/2012, you wrote: > > My preference is the wax cord but as with a lot of things it does take > some practice to get to install it properly. It has other pluses over the > nylon tie wraps You will never slice a hand open while rooting around in an > engine bay that has coraseal and wax cord used. I am one of the ones who > has received my fair share of slices on tie wraps. > > > Here's a link to a tread on the topic a few years > ago: > > * http://tinyurl.com/7a89njo* > > The "waxed cord" commonly found in military and domestic > production aircraft is probably Mil-T-43435 as described > below in the Aircraft Spruce Catalog > [image: Emacs!] > > . . . and the Braden > [image: Emacs!] > > > ** > > ** Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:03 PM PST US From: "David Lloyd" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Inexpensive Runway lighting I missed most of this thread...but, wanted to add a comment. Those solar powered lights should work well for your specific application. However, they have a tendency for a short life span. Even the expensive units. I suspect the typical NiCad cells in them go bad. And, bugs, usually spiders can squeeze into a lot of the designs and their activity kills the circuitry. So. find units that are 100% sealed, use standard sized rechargeable cells, maybe a better quality, etc. Buy spares and install them closer in spacing than you originally guesstimated..... Make sure that whoever is in charge of mowing (grass..?) is sober and had excellent vision. D ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ----- Original Message ----- From: bob noffs To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 6:13 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Inexpensive Runway lighting fwiw, your idea sounds good. my wife enjoys all these solar lights available and has them around her gardens. i think some variety would work for you. bob noffs On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 7:41 AM, checkn6 wrote: Gentlemen, thank you for all of your input and ideas. Our little group of intrepid night flyers is now leaning towards the solar lights with the addition of reflective tape on flexible poles. The field is seldom used and although someone in trouble may look down and see a few twinkly lights and find salvation it is not the intent. At one point we had considered getting the PCL switching system, and have it done up to the highest standards but for our little field is just seems too impractical so started looking for less expensive home grown options. We determined that we all know our way and could find it by landmarks (with a little help from our GPS=92) even at night due to the proximity to a busy highway, and an small but well lit business a mile from the end of the runway so the final consensus is that the lighting would primarily be for an early evening straggler that stayed out a little later than anticipated so LED solar would give ample service, and for departing earlier in the morning than the suns desire to get out of bed then reflectors would light the way while departing. Thanks again for the input and ideas. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363983#363983 ========== -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:13:52 PM PST US From: "Neal George" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Inexpensive Runway lighting LED-based pavement markers from BrightPortal Resources were recently installed at 18FD to supplement the existing pilot-controlled incandescents. VERY impressive. The individual lights are stuck to concrete blocks plopped in the dirt beside the existing light fixtures. Relatively inexpensive, zero maintenance, no wires to string and appropriate colors for side and end-markers are readily available. Neal -----Original Message----- One could craft some LED, solar powered REIL fixtures too. This would get you oriented with the most rudimentary of navigation devices. It doesn't take much light to be seen from 5 miles away. Hence, not much energy needs to be stored to keep a few LEDs flashing. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:08 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? Thanks Bob; I knew you would have the right link to a certified product. Noel From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: January 16, 2012 1:52 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? At 09:39 PM 1/15/2012, you wrote: My preference is the wax cord but as with a lot of things it does take some practice to get to install it properly. It has other pluses over the nylon tie wraps You will never slice a hand open while rooting around in an engine bay that has coraseal and wax cord used. I am one of the ones who has received my fair share of slices on tie wraps. Here's a link to a tread on the topic a few years ago: http://tinyurl.com/7a89njo The "waxed cord" commonly found in military and domestic production aircraft is probably Mil-T-43435 as described below in the Aircraft Spruce Catalog Emacs! . . . and the Braden Emacs! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:22 PM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Inexpensive Runway lighting Good Evening Neal, Just wondering what you mean when you say the lights are stuck in a concrete block near the existing lights. A concrete block on the surface could be a rather dangerous item if it is even partially above the ground. If the block were completely buried, I think that would be alright. Whatever supports the light, it should be frangible as determined by the type aircraft involved. I have read some big airport specifications where frangible was deemed to mean frangible by a 36 inch wheel. I would think a Bonanza could get some serious damage if it hit a concrete block on the surface. 36 inch diameter wheel on a heavy jet might be no problem at all. Any comments? Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 1/16/2012 6:14:55 P.M. Central Standard Time, n8zg@att.net writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neal George" LED-based pavement markers from BrightPortal Resources were recently installed at 18FD to supplement the existing pilot-controlled incandescents. VERY impressive. The individual lights are stuck to concrete blocks plopped in the dirt beside the existing light fixtures. Relatively inexpensive, zero maintenance, no wires to string and appropriate colors for side and end-markers are readily available. Neal ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:55 PM PST US From: "Neal George" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Inexpensive Runway lighting Good points Bob - I wasn't involved in the install, but it appears that the LED fixtures are bonded (some sort of glue/putty/epoxy/caulk) to the blocks. Standard block is nominally 8" high x 10" wide x 8" thick, actually 7.5" x 9.5" x 7.5". The blocks in this situation are half-thick standard concrete block, so approximately 7.5" x 9.5" x 3.5". It also appears that the blocks were inset slightly in an effort to get them close to level. The result is the blocks are less than 3" proud of the ground, immediately adjacent to the existing runway edge- and end-marker light fixtures, which stand knee high. Low enough to not be a prop strike hazard, but probably not friendly to wheel pants. But if one strays into the lights, chances are good the lights and their mounts are the least of one's troubles. To paraphrase the old cartographers, "Here there be Dragons." neal From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B@aol.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 7:28 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Inexpensive Runway lighting Good Evening Neal, Just wondering what you mean when you say the lights are stuck in a concrete block near the existing lights. A concrete block on the surface could be a rather dangerous item if it is even partially above the ground. If the block were completely buried, I think that would be alright. Whatever supports the light, it should be frangible as determined by the type aircraft involved. I have read some big airport specifications where frangible was deemed to mean frangible by a 36 inch wheel. I would think a Bonanza could get some serious damage if it hit a concrete block on the surface. 36 inch diameter wheel on a heavy jet might be no problem at all. Any comments? Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 1/16/2012 6:14:55 P.M. Central Standard Time, n8zg@att.net writes: LED-based pavement markers from BrightPortal Resources were recently installed at 18FD to supplement the existing pilot-controlled incandescents. VERY impressive. The individual lights are stuck to concrete blocks plopped in the dirt beside the existing light fixtures. Relatively inexpensive, zero maintenance, no wires to string and appropriate colors for side and end-markers are readily available. Neal ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.