---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/29/12: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:48 AM - Re: Sign of the times (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS) 2. 06:25 AM - Re: Sign of the times (Charlie England) 3. 06:41 AM - Re: Sign of the times (Robert Borger) 4. 07:07 AM - Re: Sign of the times (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 07:42 AM - Re: Sign of the times (John Grosse) 6. 07:50 AM - Re: Sign of the times (Lynn Riggs) 7. 07:50 AM - Re: Sign of the times (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 07:58 AM - Re: Sign of the times (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 08:24 AM - Re: Sign of the times (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 08:52 AM - Re: Fuses instead of breakers (Jeff Page) 11. 08:54 AM - Shop Note: Soldering iron tip cleaner (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 09:00 AM - Re: Sign of the times () 13. 09:06 AM - Interesting data point (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 11:49 AM - Re: Sign of the times (James Kilford) 15. 08:39 PM - Can Xfeed damage smaller battery. (bobbarrow) 16. 09:48 PM - Re: Sign of the times (Speedy11@aol.com) 17. 09:57 PM - Re: Sign of the times (mmayfield) 18. 10:21 PM - ot: Re: Sign of the times (David) 19. 10:24 PM - Re: Sign of the times (David) 20. 10:24 PM - Re: Re: Sign of the times (rayj) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:57 AM PST US From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Sign of the times Sorry for the inconveniences folks. Bob . . . I actually prefer PayPal. It offers very easy convenient on line ordering and payment plus it offers another layer of protection for your credit card account. Roger ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:23 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Sign of the times On 01/28/2012 07:58 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > Our credit card processing company of some 15 years > has been slowing driving up the fixed fees. I've > just received a letter informing me of my mandatory > enrollment in a "security validation program" for > yet another fixed fee. My gross sales simply won't > support such burdens. > > The fixed fees are but part of the $risk$. Their > mandated 'service' might well find that my 'network' > (one computer sitting behind two firewalls) is > vulnerable and needs more $upgrading$ as well. > > I'm sorry to have to announce that effective > immediately, the AEC website catalog orders > will have to be paid through PayPal. > > I've been thinking about getting a PayPal > friendly shopping cart program . . . the > problem is the assumption that everything > in the catalog is in stock for shipment now > . . . or that I'm not out of town. I don't > want to ding folks for cash until their > order is ready to ship. Easy with the old > system. But for the time being, we'll issue PP > invoices as the orders come together. > > All CC orders pending will be shipped by > the end of this month under the old system. > All remittance for new orders will have to > flow through PayPal. > > Sorry for the inconveniences folks. > > > Bob . . . I feel your pain. For me, PayPal is actually much easier to use, but the transaction fees are pretty extreme for the seller. I'm fired up about all the various incarnations of 'open source', from Linux operating systems to no-charge software to groups like this, which offer minimal cost assistance with the confidence someone will be helping us in the future. I saw this a few months ago. http://drupal.org/project/dwolla It's apparently a pretty small company at this point, but it's gotten coverage from some major media outlets. This movement to provide needed services at a truly fair cost has the potential to change our culture. Charlie ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:33 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Sign of the times From: Robert Borger Bob, Too bad, but I understand. I have a Pay-Pal account which I actually use once in a while. Not an inconvenience, if I can just remember the password Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Jan 28, 2012, at 7:58 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > All remittance for new orders will have to > flow through PayPal. > > Sorry for the inconveniences folks. > > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:39 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Sign of the times At 12:14 AM 1/29/2012, you wrote: > >That part is true, however, PayPal's fees are usurious. Except that it is proportional to cash flow. The CC processing company was hitting me for by the month fees whether I moved any funds or not. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:27 AM PST US From: John Grosse Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Sign of the times I've used PayPal since it started up and was actually free. It's certainly not that anymore. Generally it works well for the buyer, at least. One caution though: if you ever have a dispute over anything you're pretty much on your own. I had a problem with a seller and had a terrible time even getting through to a human being in customer service and got absolutely no help from PayPal to resolve my problem. I would suggest that you set up a special bank account to link to your PayPal account in a different bank than your primary accounts so that they can't freeze all your accounts if there's a dispute. If you google "paypal sucks" you'll find a website that details some of the cautions in using the service. I don't mean to scare you off, but just beware! John Grosse PS: I don't know if your credit card problem is with your bank or what, but I recently switched from a big bank to a credit union and am SO happy. Better rates, better service, real people when you call, and no BS. Everyone I know who has switched has had a similar experience. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:08 AM PST US From: "Lynn Riggs" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Sign of the times I run a vacation rental for two vacation home and I found PayPal to be more reasonable than most other credit card processing companies. Lynn Riggs riggs_la@yahoo.com http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p352107 http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p293990 -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 8:04 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Sign of the times At 12:14 AM 1/29/2012, you wrote: > >That part is true, however, PayPal's fees are usurious. Except that it is proportional to cash flow. The CC processing company was hitting me for by the month fees whether I moved any funds or not. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:18 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Sign of the times At 08:31 AM 1/29/2012, you wrote: > >Bob, > >Too bad, but I understand. I have a Pay-Pal >account which I actually use once in a >while. Not an inconvenience, if I can just remember the password I've had a PP account for years. Since I live out in the hinterlands, EVERYTHING is 100 miles away. When a project comes to a crawl (or dead in the water) for lack of some item, the first place I look is eBay. Probably 80% of the time I can find what I need there even if it's a week or more away . . . just move on to another project until the stuff arrives. PP is exceedingly buyer friendly. I've even considered going to an eBay Store format as opposed to my website catalog page, but then I pay listing fees on top of seller fees. Of course those can be compensate for in my pricing but for now, I'd rather keep everything humming on Matt's servers. Perhaps not practical from a business sense but it preserves the fraternity. There's something to be said for doing business with the folks you KNOW. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:58:03 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Sign of the times > >I saw this a few months ago. >http://drupal.org/project/dwolla > >It's apparently a pretty small company at this point, but it's >gotten coverage from some major media outlets. This movement to >provide needed services at a truly fair cost has the potential to >change our culture. Thanks for the heads-up! I'll watch these guys. What we're witnessing is the effect of entrepreneur's creativity when some "need" or competitive opportunity is perceived. I think there are several PayPal-like activities operating now. Just as entrepreneur-driven experimental aviation has offered an alternative to TC aircraft, folks with Internet, computers, and big ideas will at least make things more convenient and economical for our grandkids! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:07 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Sign of the times At 09:38 AM 1/29/2012, you wrote: If you google "paypal sucks" you'll find a website that details some of the cautions in using the service. I don't mean to scare you off, but just beware! This is offset by buying on eBay. Their buyer protection service (applies only to purchases on eBay) is pretty effective. Had a dispute with a seller a couple of years ago that eBay resolved. Given the underlying foundation of honorable behavior amongst our fellow aviators, I don't anticipate any risks. If anyone wants their money back from me . . . all they gotta do is say so. John Grosse PS: I don't know if your credit card problem is with your bank or what The problem is with the company that processes credit card sales for business and transfers money to the bank. They're 'like' PayPal but apparently don't have the security sophistication offered by PayPal (or price structures friendly to small volume merchants). Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:44 AM PST US From: Jeff Page Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuses instead of breakers Bob, Thank you ever so much for your analysis, and your time that you obviously took to teach it. I was looking at that graph, thinking it appeared they were providing lots of information, yet it seemed insufficient. Now that you have taught me how easy it is to extend the lines, I am disappointed I didn't think of that myself, but now I can use that technique to great benefit in the future. Also very important, is that I can wire my aircraft, _knowing_ that the installation is the best possible compromise of all the factors, rather than blindly following the installation instructions of a company who's expertise is building floats, rather than electrical design. In this case, your analysis confirms their installation instructions are excellent, providing confidence that they offer a solid product. Thanks !! Jeff Page Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:03 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Shop Note: Soldering iron tip cleaner There have been many tools offered for the purpose of keeping your soldering iron tip "shinny" during your labors at the workbench. The one I've used most over the years is a CELLULOSE, not plastic sponge damp with water. You can wipe the tip on this surface and get corrosion and flux-gunk off the tip along with most of the excess solder. Over the years I've tried a couple of tip cleaners that looked like that Chore Boy dish scrubber you find at the grocery store. The made-for-workbench tip cleaner came with a cup stuffed with the cleaning medium that you could poke the tip into before approaching a new joining. The things were pretty expensive compared to the wet sponge and just didn't catch on with me. A couple days ago, I spotted some stainless steel clones of the aforementioned dish scrubber in a Dollar General store. Two of the biscuit-sized critters for $1. Hmmmmm . . . In the days since, I've found it handy to stuff a wad of this material into the center of a spool of solder. This keeps the tip cleaner handy when you're off-bench. My Metcal iron-rest has a cavity at the rear which seemed to beg for a stuffing of "stainless steel flat-wire". I'm pleased to report that the mis- application of this product has proven satisfactory and preferable to the wet-sponge. You don't need to keep a water bottle handy. You can have a cleaner built into every spool of solder. You can build your own clone of the $high$ soldering accessory for under a buck. The tool seems to offer a much longer service life than a sponge and it does a better job. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:09 AM PST US From: Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Sign of the times Re. paypal, just be aware that they can link and mix accounting for items purchased and sold (creates an accounting nightmare, if one uses paypal both for business and personal) and getting your money can be sometimes much less smooth than a credit card merchant account or check by phone/fax. If one accepts the possibility for additional burden and risks, nothing wrong with using paypal. Just be informed. Speaking from personal experience, I try to limit paypal transactions (both purchases and sales) and would like to entirely eliminate them. Just my 0.02 Rumen do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:21 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Interesting data point I've built a court-room demonstrator for an upcoming trial wherein it was useful to show the relative speed with which fuses and breakers react to the same level of stress. I elected to try a 6v alkaline lantern battery to power the handy-dandy fuse-blower and breaker- popper but had never investigated the internal impedance of these devices. I can report that the hard-fault current of these devices is on the order of 20 amps. This means that the internal impedance of a new battery is approximately 6/20 = 300 milliohms. So if one sets a wasted energy limit of 10% for loading this battery, you will want your load to be no greater than 9 x 300 = 2.7 ohms. This translates into a 2.2 amp load. I think most lantern bulbs are on the order of .5 amps for 3 watts. This suggests a usage efficiency on a new battery of about 97%. Not bad. I'll cap-check one of those batteries one day and report the findings. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:50 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Sign of the times From: James Kilford Bob, I accepted thousands of PayPal transactions on a web site for several years without a single problem. Sure, you lose a few percent, but then the same holds true for credit cards. Worked a treat, and I would recommend it without hesitation. As it happens, it was a dedicated PayPal business account. In its favour, people know the PayPal name, which means a lot these days. Sure, the odd person here and there preferred to send a cheque or do a bank transfer, and a couple of people refused point-blank to use PP, but it's so small a number as to be insignificant. FWIW. James do not archive On 29 January 2012 16:57, wrote: > > Re. paypal, just be aware that they can link and mix accounting for items > purchased and sold (creates an accounting nightmare, if one uses paypal > both for business and personal) and getting your money can be sometimes > much less smooth than a credit card merchant account or check by phone/fax. > > If one accepts the possibility for additional burden and risks, nothing > wrong with using paypal. Just be informed. > > Speaking from personal experience, I try to limit paypal transactions > (both purchases and sales) and would like to entirely eliminate them. > Just my 0.02 > Rumen > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:26 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Can Xfeed damage smaller battery. From: "bobbarrow" I have a Z14 architecture (dual independent busses). On one bus I have a B&C 20A alternator (LR3 external regulator) and an 8 AH Odyssey 310 battery. On the other bus I have a B&C 40A alternator (LR3 external regulator) and a 17 AH Odyssey 680 battery. Between the two busses I have a Crossfeed Contactor. OK, so if one of my alternators malfunctions I can cut off its field supply and kill it. Then I can switch on my Crossfeed Contactor and all should be well. But maybe not. Is it possible that because I would then have two batteries of different capacity/resistance on line that the smaller battery might get fried over time. If so, would it make sense in those circumstances to switch off the master contactor for the smaller battery to protect the battery. Regards Bob Barrow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365185#365185 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:37 PM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Sign of the times Personally I despise Paypal and I refuse to use their service. I've had very poor service from them and their fees are too high. I understand the problem with CC fees and I'm glad to see you are being proactive to find another means to sell your products. But, some of us will want to pay by check rather than enrich Paypal. Stan Sutterfield Port Orange, FL In a message dated 1/29/2012 3:03:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, aeroelectric-list@matronics.com writes: I actually prefer PayPal as a means of sending and receiving payments, and I agree with the PayPal objectives of providing an unburdened means for conducting worldwide commerce. I'm sure most participants on this forum will find PayPal a superior service. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:49 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Sign of the times From: "mmayfield" Not trying to be a "glass half empty" guy here, but just a realist. You can't escape human greed wherever you turn. Even new startups that promise this almost philanthropic view of better value for the customer often gradually slide into the "hey we can make heaps more money out of this if we tie them into this contract and....(insert means of screwing customer here)"'. That's the double-edge sword of the free market coupled with our human nature. I don't mind PayPal, however the comments above regarding disputes with the seller are quite true. You're on your own (as I found out). The major cards (M/C, Visa etc) are much better for that in my experience, and if I don't know the seller, I won't touch PayPal. -------- Mike Your political opinions are noted. And ignored. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365190#365190 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:36 PM PST US From: David Subject: ot: Re: AeroElectric-List: Sign of the times Back when I did credit cards through Novus, I paid 0.4 to 1.4% per transaction (never went over .65) and $30, then $40 month minimum. If I had enough flow, then the $30/40 was taken care of. Those were the only fees after initial setup and equipment purchase. Wonder if they're still in business? David Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > At 12:14 AM 1/29/2012, you wrote: >> >> That part is true, however, PayPal's fees are usurious. > > Except that it is proportional to cash flow. The > CC processing company was hitting me for by > the month fees whether I moved any funds or > not. > > > Bob . . . > > -- Tell the truth. Be honest. Be responsible to and for yourself. I liked America when it was free and it's people were responsible and had morals. Every gram of cocaine you buy from elsewhere contributes to an innocent being murdered in Central and South America. Grow your own or Stop taking it. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:36 PM PST US From: David Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Sign of the times Aren't PayPal and Ebay the same company? David M. Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > At 09:38 AM 1/29/2012, you wrote: > > > If you google "paypal sucks" you'll find a website that details some > of the cautions in using the service. I don't mean to scare you off, > but just beware! > > This is offset by buying on eBay. Their buyer protection > service (applies only to purchases on eBay) is pretty > effective. Had a dispute with a seller a couple of years > ago that eBay resolved. > > Given the underlying foundation of honorable behavior > amongst our fellow aviators, I don't anticipate any > risks. If anyone wants their money back from me . . . > all they gotta do is say so. > > John Grosse > > PS: I don't know if your credit card problem is with your bank or what > > The problem is with the company that processes > credit card sales for business and transfers > money to the bank. They're 'like' PayPal but > apparently don't have the security sophistication > offered by PayPal (or price structures friendly > to small volume merchants). > > > Bob . . . > > -- Tell the truth. Be honest. Be responsible to and for yourself. I liked America when it was free and it's people were responsible and had morals. Every gram of cocaine you buy from elsewhere contributes to an innocent being murdered in Central and South America. Grow your own or Stop taking it. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:55 PM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Sign of the times I'll second your realism. do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 01/29/2012 11:52 PM, mmayfield wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "mmayfield" > > Not trying to be a "glass half empty" guy here, but just a realist. > > You can't escape human greed wherever you turn. Even new startups that promise this almost philanthropic view of better value for the customer often gradually slide into the "hey we can make heaps more money out of this if we tie them into this contract and....(insert means of screwing customer here)"'. That's the double-edge sword of the free market coupled with our human nature. > > I don't mind PayPal, however the comments above regarding disputes with the seller are quite true. You're on your own (as I found out). The major cards (M/C, Visa etc) are much better for that in my experience, and if I don't know the seller, I won't touch PayPal. > > -------- > Mike > > Your political opinions are noted. And ignored. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365190#365190 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.