Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:01 AM - Re: Shrink tubing shrinker. (James Kilford)
2. 06:26 AM - Re: Com and Nav Radio and Antenna Questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 09:20 AM - Z11 with rear battery in a Cub (Jeff Page)
4. 10:15 AM - Re: Z11 with rear battery in a Cub (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 10:27 AM - Re: alternator wiring (Kenneth Johnson)
6. 11:50 AM - Re: alternator wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 12:36 PM - Re: Z11 with rear battery in a Cub (Jeff Page)
8. 12:59 PM - Re: Re: Z11 with rear battery in a Cub (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 05:24 PM - Re: Com and Nav Radio and Antenna Questions (Don)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Shrink tubing shrinker. |
I use an attachment that came with my portable gas soldering iron. You
take the normal soldering bit out, and insert a special hot air nozzle.
Works a treat and of course because it's not much bigger than a marker pen
you can get right into small areas under the panel with it.
James
On 5 February 2012 00:59, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com**>
>
>
> At 03:33 PM 2/4/2012, you wrote:
>
>>
>> Greetings listers,
>>
>> I have been using a heat gun type thing that I got at a g-sale and the
>> results are consistently satisfactory so I thought I'd share the info with
>> the list. The tool is called an "embossing heat tool".
>>
>
> Cool find sir! I'll pick one up when I'm in Wichita
> this weekend and see what they're like. Years ago
> I was pretty attached to my Weller "Princess" model
> heat guns. They were something on the order of 250W
> and delivered heat out a very compact nozzle. Nice
> for close quarters work. They were not very robust
> and the two I had eventually died but I was loath to
> spend the $100+ to replace them.
>
> These look like they might be an attractive, low cost
> alternative. Thanks for the heads-up.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Com and Nav Radio and Antenna Questions |
At 09:31 PM 2/4/2012, you wrote:
Bob and Listers
When taking a standing wave ratio reading is it necessary to key the
transmit button?
Generally, yes. Most 'stand alone' swr instruments need some
form of stimulation at the frequency of interest.
If the above is correct how does one match nav radios to coax and antennas
You find another signal source that will excite the
feedline and antenna at the frequency of interest -OR-
you use an instrument that features a built-in signal
source like . . .
Emacs!
I am trying to help a friend with a Pitts that has radio
problems. He flew today and could not hear the attis at KWHP on the
ground or in the air.
<snip>
It was suggested that the arched was having problems because of the
anti UV coating on the fabric so the Rami was installed and does not
seem to work any better.
Any ideas on where to start would be appreciated
What you've described suggests a profound problem . . .
some sort of disconnect or perhaps radio failure.
Communications over distances you've suggested can
usually be covered the most rudimentary of antennas.
Certainly, an SWR test of the comm antenna AT THE
RADIO END of the feedline is indicated. Get a
hand-held transceiver and a short piece of coax
to connect it to the ship's antenna. See if communications
can be maintained on the alternate radio.
Has the ICOM been bench checked? You can ramp check
the radio by standing off a mile or so from the airplane
with a hand held. See if you can talk to each other
on the 122.750 (air-to-air, private aircraft) Unicom
frequency. Use cell phones to know that the individual
in the airplane is talking when indeed you can't hear
him on the hand-held.
The ground plane that the Rami antenna is mounted on is well under 44
by 44 inches. This aircraft is flown in acro mode and to place foil
across the bottom of the fuse would cause vision problems while
inverted. This is due to floor windows an either side of the existing
ground plane. I believe that this is the major problem.
Probably not. The size or shape of the ground
plane will not have so profound an effect on
antenna performance.
Bob, after sending the last post I re-read the connection chapter on
antennas base my belief on what I read. Comments? I am interested in
the test set you talked about in the antenna chapter. Thanks in advance.
The MFJ-259 pictured above is the grand-daddy of
antenna analyzers. It will tell you everything you
need to know about the antenna system. Proble is,
they're kind of pricey. I think I bought my first
one about 10 years ago for under $200. They're pushing
$300 new
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-259B
You can find them for a little less on eBay but
not much.
Another possibility is this little gem offered
on eBay and elsewhere:
http://tinyurl.com/7cl4bba
I've got one on order for evaluation. If
you don't have access to a capable VHF antenna
analyzer or swr bridge, these two options are
worth considering.
But you can do a lot with a hand-held and some
cell phones too. My guess is that the receive in
the Icom has gone to sleep . . . or the antenna
connector in the tray is open. The swr/pwr meter
test at both ends of the feedline will verify
continuity.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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Subject: | Z11 with rear battery in a Cub |
A friend of mine is building a Smith Cub and has just decided he wants
to put the battery in the rear due to weight and balance considerations.
Wiring architecture is Z11. This is what I think he has to do. Please
correct any misunderstandings I have !
Main contactor at the rear as close as possible to the battery.
This feeds a heavy conductor to the firewall.
This conductor cannot be practically circuit protected, so should be
contained in a conduit.
This cable is connected to the main bus at the firewall, and continues
from there to the starter contactor.
The main bus has the usual stuff, plus an amphib gear hydralic pump.
A 4AWG wire does not easily connect to the Bussman fuse panel.
Perhaps a junction at the firewall where the starter cable goes
through and a 10AWG wire to the main bus which can now be more
conveniently located under the panel ?
Concern: this is a lot of wire running around without circuit
protection. An ANL would probably be useful at the firewall junction
if we take a 10AWG to the main bus fuseblock, but the main feed from
the back to the starter must be installed with good physical
protection. Turning off the master switch before a forced landing is
extremely important.
The battery bus as near as practical to the battery. This has a
connection for the single Lightspeed ignition (other is a mag) and an
always hot cigarette lighter socket on the instrument panel, fed with
a 5A fuse.
An endurance bus relay also fed from the battery bus and located there.
I expect that running starter currents through the aircraft frame is
not a good idea. So run a second heavy feed wire up to the firewall
where a forest of tabs will be, including a strap to the engine for
the starter current.
This works out to two fat wires, one 12AWG, two 18AWG and two 22AWG
wires running from the back to the front. Those should all run inside
the same conduit. Should anything be done to prevent them chaffing
against each other, or the conduit ?
It is probably about 7 feet from the firewall to the battery, which
needs to start an Aero Sport Power O-375. Will 4AWG be sufficient ?
Or too much resistance, and he should upgrade to 2AWG ?
Anything else I should have thought of ?
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Z11 with rear battery in a Cub |
At 11:15 AM 2/5/2012, you wrote:
A friend of mine is building a Smith Cub and has just decided he wants
to put the battery in the rear due to weight and balance considerations.
Wiring architecture is Z11. This is what I think he has to do. Please
correct any misunderstandings I have !
Main contactor at the rear as close as possible to the battery.
This feeds a heavy conductor to the firewall.
Yes . . .
This conductor cannot be practically circuit protected, so should be
contained in a conduit.
No . . . fat wires require no special protection.
Support the wire to avoid abrasion due to motion
and keep away from moving parts.
This cable is connected to the main bus at the firewall, and continues
from there to the starter contactor.
I'd take it to the starter contactor. Bring a smaller,
probably 6AWG wire from contactor to the main bus.
The main bus has the usual stuff, plus an amphib gear hydralic pump.
A 4AWG wire does not easily connect to the Bussman fuse panel.
Why not? First it can probably be a 6AWG wire. 4AWG terminals
for #10 stud are easy. Use welding cable to get soft, flexible
and user-friendly routing and installation.
Perhaps a junction at the firewall where the starter cable goes
through and a 10AWG wire to the main bus which can now be more
conveniently located under the panel ?
Use hot side of starter contatctor for junction point.
Concern: this is a lot of wire running around without circuit
protection. An ANL would probably be useful at the firewall junction
if we take a 10AWG to the main bus fuseblock, but the main feed from
the back to the starter must be installed with good physical
protection. Turning off the master switch before a forced landing is
extremely important.
Wires that carry cranking and/or major power distribution
don't need 'protection' beyond making them cold by turning
the master switch off. This is consistent with the FARs which
guide the design and assembly of all part 23 and 25 airplanes.
The battery bus as near as practical to the battery. This has a
connection for the single Lightspeed ignition (other is a mag) and an
always hot cigarette lighter socket on the instrument panel, fed with
a 5A fuse.
This can be a 10A fuse. As we've discussed earlier, the
I(squared)x t constant for a fuse is still much smaller
than the exemplar 5A breaker. Hence, it is no greater
risk for post crash fire ignition than the 5A breaker.
An endurance bus relay also fed from the battery bus and located there.
Yes, since you disconnect adjacent to the battery bus,
that fuse may be any practical size needed.
I expect that running starter currents through the aircraft frame is
not a good idea. So run a second heavy feed wire up to the firewall
where a forest of tabs will be, including a strap to the engine for
the starter current.
That would be ideal.
This works out to two fat wires, one 12AWG, two 18AWG and two 22AWG
wires running from the back to the front. Those should all run inside
the same conduit. Should anything be done to prevent them chaffing
against each other, or the conduit ?
No conduit. Just bundle them up and support on chafe-free
clamps.
It is probably about 7 feet from the firewall to the battery, which
needs to start an Aero Sport Power O-375. Will 4AWG be sufficient ?
Or too much resistance, and he should upgrade to 2AWG ?
Lots of variables here. The delta-weight for 2 versus 4
on 14 feet seems a reasonable 'sacrifice'. But depending
on starter, engine cranking requirements, battery condition,
local ambient temperatures, etc. . . . 4AWG MIGHT be lighter
than the owner would like . . . but he'll have to discover
that for himself.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: alternator wiring |
Bob, thanks again for your help. I have an EXP-Bus that I am using and in w
hich I can connect- for OV protection.- Does the 10 o'clock connection
go to this bus?=0AKen Johnson=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________
=0A From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>=0ATo: a
eroelectric-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:14 PM
=0ASubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: alternator wiring=0A =0A=0AAt 09:23 AM 2
/4/2012, you wrote:=0ABob and All,=0AI have appreciated all the information
received during the last year or=0Atwo as I have been preparing to wire my
panel.- The time has=0Acome.- I have a question regarding the wiring o
f my alternator, a=0ABosch AL394X.- I have tried to find wiring schemes o
n the internet,=0Abut have not been able to download what I need.- I have
included a=0Apicture to help.-- At about 12 o'clock, I assume the larg
e,=0Ablack connecter goes to the battery. =0A=0A-- Yes=0A=0A=0A-What
should be done with the connector plug at about 10 o'clock=0Aabove the cent
er hub . . .=0A=0A-- Leave it open=0A=0A-and the two connector plug a
t about 6 o'clock below the center=0Ahub?- Thanks for your help!!!- Ken
Johnson=0A=0A-- Ignore the "lamp" connection. Connect your=0Acontrol
=0A-- input wire to "IGN". Do you have a plan for=0Adealing with=0A-
- an OV condition?=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A- Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: alternator wiring |
At 12:23 PM 2/5/2012, you wrote:
>Bob, thanks again for your help. I have an EXP-Bus that I am using
>and in which I can connect for OV protection. Does the 10 o'clock
>connection go to this bus?
The data was not helpful about the upper-left terminal . . .
given that it's an internally regulated alternator, I
haven't even got a good guess as to what that terminal
is for.
At 70A, it's certainly a robust alternator. But without
adding a b-lead disconnect contactor, this style
of alternator many not be controllable from outside
during a runaway OV event. Suggest you consider modifying
it for use with an external regulator, ov protection system
friendlier to airplanes.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Z11 with rear battery in a Cub |
Thanks for your answers Bob.
It will be easier to install the wires without a conduit.
6AWG direct from the starter contactor to the main bus is a good approach.
Yes, the cigarette lighter could have up to a 10A fuse, but not needed
for probably a 2A load. Wiring will be sufficient to upsize later if
needed.
It is important to able to start a float plane. Changing 4AWG to 2AWG
after the build would be a challenge, so I expect we will install 2AWG
to begin with if there is any possibility of 4AWG being too small.
Thanks !
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Z11 with rear battery in a Cub |
>
>It is important to able to start a float plane. Changing 4AWG to 2AWG
>after the build would be a challenge, so I expect we will install 2AWG
>to begin with if there is any possibility of 4AWG being too small.
Sounds like a Plan!
Bob . . .
Message 9
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Subject: | Com and Nav Radio and Antenna Questions |
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Com and Nav Radio and Antenna Questions
Bob,
Thanks for the quick response.
Has the ICOM been bench checked? You can ramp check
the radio by standing off a mile or so from the airplane
with a hand held. See if you can talk to each other
on the 122.750 (air-to-air, private aircraft) Unicom
frequency. Use cell phones to know that the individual
in the airplane is talking when indeed you can't hear
him on the hand-held.
A few weeks ago we tried using a hand held with the Archer antenna and it
worked fine. We sent the xcom radio in (sorry I gave the wrong name in
original poat) for testing to the US dealer.
The unit is made in Australia so going back to the manufacturer is very time
consuming. The dealer said everything checked out fine.
One additional item is that the radio has a remote head and no tray as the
more conventional type will not fit in a Pitts
Probably not. The size or shape of the ground
plane will not have so profound an effect on
antenna performance.
Today we tried the handheld with the Archer and the Rami antennas and found
the attis perfectly clear as it had been the last time we tried this.
(should have known that it was not the antenna but believed the dealer when
he said the radio checked out). The radio is going back to the manufacturer.
Bob, after sending the last post I re-read the connection chapter on
antennas base my belief on what I read. Comments? I am interested
in the test set you talked about in the antenna chapter. Thanks in
advance.
The MFJ-259 pictured above is the grand-daddy of
antenna analyzers. It will tell you everything you
need to know about the antenna system. Proble is,
they're kind of pricey. I think I bought my first
one about 10 years ago for under $200. They're pushing
$300 new
This will not break the bank, will purchase one. It does not mention the
ability to excite the feedline and antenna for setting up vor so U will need
help in doing that.
The wingtip antenna you talk about in the connection is a slightly modified
Archer. Archer mounts them to the fiberglass wing tip and sandwiches it
between the glass and the wing root for the ground. I am looking for the
instructions that came with the unit and will send them to you as soon as I
find them. I would like to be able to get one of these. To work in each
wing tip for my two vors. I have an APRS (2meter Jpole in one wingtip that
may make it impossible to get the Archer to work.
I will ask the additional questions after I send you the Archer
instructions.
Bob . . .
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