---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/13/12: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:14 AM - Impulse Coupled Mag/Elec Ignition Wiring () 2. 12:44 PM - Impulse Coupled Mag/Elec Ignition Wiring (Charles Brame) 3. 01:07 PM - Re: Impulse Coupled Mag/Elec Ignition Wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 01:33 PM - Re: Impulse Coupled Mag/Elec Ignition Wiring () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:24 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Impulse Coupled Mag/Elec Ignition Wiring 2/13/2012 Hello Jerry, You wrote: 1) "Would it be be better to replace the one mag with an impulse coupled mag rather than go to a non-impulse coupled one?" I think that it would be better not only for the reasons that you cite later in your posting, but also easier since you would keep the same gearing and magneto stack up that you have on your engine now. 2) "Also, not sure if there is any difference in how an IC mag is driven by the engine such that it could, if desired, be replaced by a non IC mag." Yes, there is a difference. The IC mag drive arrangement is longer than the drive arrangement on a non IC mag to allow space for the impulse coupleing so there is an adapter required between the IC mag and the engine accessory drive case for the IC mag that is not required for the non IC mag. Examine your engine carefully and you will see this adapter (extension) between your engine accessory drive case and the magnetos. That adapter is removed for the non IC mag. 3) "......they are both shot so I am considering replacing one magneto and replacing the other with a LSE Plasma III electronic ignition." Have you considered going with a P mag for replacing one (or both) of your present mags. http://www.emagair.com/P-MAGII.htm 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." ========================================================= Time: 01:29:02 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Impulse Coupled Mag/Elec Ignition Wiring From: Jerry Jerome Hi Bob, I wired the electrical system on my RV3 per Z-11 and installed the two S-700 toggle switches for the magnetos/starter. I recently discovered that that my engine (O-320 D2J) has two impulse coupled magnetos, not one as I thought initially, and they are both shot so I am considering replacing one magneto and replacing the other with a LSE Plasma III electronic ignition. Would it be be better to replace the one mag with an impulse coupled mag rather than go to a non-impulse coupled one? If so, how would that system be wired? I see Figure Z-27 shows how to wire up a non-impulse coupled mag and one electronic ignition, but does not show the wiring if that mag were impulsed coupled. Having one IC mag would allow me the advantage of starting the engine on that mag should I lose the electronic ignition. I could go to a full electronic system, but feel there is an advantage to keeping one mag because of having the different failure modes. Also, not sure if there is any difference in how an IC mag is driven by the engine such that it could, if desired, be replaced by a non IC mag. The mags I have now are both Slick 4251s with left hand rotation. Thanks Jerry ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:44:05 PM PST US From: Charles Brame Subject: AeroElectric-List: Impulse Coupled Mag/Elec Ignition Wiring Jerry, I'll let Bob and others address the wiring, but thought I'd throw in my two cents on the mag/EI combination. I have an 0-320 like you and I chose an impulse coupled Slick mag on the left side, and a Jeff Rose ElectroAir EI system on the right. The benefits are the hotter firing EI system in cruise, with a conventional mag to get me home if the electrical system and/or the EI fail. Additionally, an impulse coupled mag is necessary for starts when the EI is not desirable or available. One gotcha, however. My ElectroAir EI is susceptible to a low voltage situation, thus it usually won't fire with the low voltage caused by the current draw when my SkyTec starter is engaged. Of course, the EI tends to fire as soon as the start switch is released with the possibility of a kickback. I'm not sure if the same situation is true for other EI systems, but it is something to check out. As recommended by Jeff Rose, I start my engine with the impulse mag on and the EI off. It has always started within the first couple of blades, hot or cold. Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB San Antonio ---------------------------------------------------------- > Time: 01:29:02 PM PST US > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Impulse Coupled Mag/Elec Ignition Wiring > From: Jerry Jerome > > Hi Bob, > > I wired the electrical system on my RV3 per Z-11 and installed the two > S-700 toggle switches for the magnetos/starter. I recently > discovered that > that my engine (O-320 D2J) has two impulse coupled magnetos, not one > as I > thought initially, and they are both shot so I am considering > replacing one > magneto and replacing the other with a LSE Plasma III electronic > ignition. > Would it be be better to replace the one mag with an impulse coupled > mag > rather than go to a non-impulse coupled one? If so, how would that > system > be wired? I see Figure Z-27 shows how to wire up a non-impulse > coupled mag > and one electronic ignition, but does not show the wiring if that > mag were > impulsed coupled. Having one IC mag would allow me the advantage of > starting the engine on that mag should I lose the electronic > ignition. I > could go to a full electronic system, but feel there is an advantage > to > keeping one mag because of having the different failure modes. > Also, not > sure if there is any difference in how an IC mag is driven by the > engine > such that it could, if desired, be replaced by a non IC mag. The > mags I > have now are both Slick 4251s with left hand rotation. Thanks ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:07:32 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Impulse Coupled Mag/Elec Ignition Wiring At 02:40 PM 2/13/2012, you wrote: Jerry, I'll let Bob and others address the wiring, but thought I'd throw in my two cents on the mag/EI combination. I have an 0-320 like you and I chose an impulse coupled Slick mag on the left side, and a Jeff Rose ElectroAir EI system on the right. The benefits are the hotter firing EI system in cruise, with a conventional mag to get me home if the electrical system and/or the EI fail. Additionally, an impulse coupled mag is necessary for starts when the EI is not desirable or available. One gotcha, however. My ElectroAir EI is susceptible to a low voltage situation, thus it usually won't fire with the low voltage caused by the current draw when my SkyTec starter is engaged. Of course, the EI tends to fire as soon as the start switch is released with the possibility of a kickback. I'm not sure if the same situation is true for other EI systems, but it is something to check out. As recommended by Jeff Rose, I start my engine with the impulse mag on and the EI off. It has always started within the first couple of blades, hot or cold. I am pretty certain that modern incarnations of the electronic ignition are not so afflicted. Certainly a LSE system operates down to 6 volts or so. Even if the system tends to start off on the wrong foot during high inrush from a PM starter motor, one can always separate the starter and ignition power/up by a second or so. Starter inrush is over in 100 milliseconds so if you hit the start button and then power up the ignition after the first blade passage, the system integration snafu can be side-stepped. But I would sure want to analyze the cranking system as well to make sure you're not tossing away useful volts that could be recovered by resizing or connection of wires. If there are any working magnetos, then one could certainly consider 'using them up' before installing dual electronic ignition. Z-13/8 with the ignition system driven by their own fuse from the battery bus is pretty much bullet proof. One could also consider the diode isolated, second battery for the #2 ignition as described by LSE. In any case, there are no compelling reasons to use any magnetos except that you have a resource that goes wasted if you take working mags off the airplane. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:33:27 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Impulse Coupled Mag/Elec Ignition Wiring I have a Lightspeed/IM-Mag setup and start with both on. My airplane starts like my car. That's suits me just fine. I've tried it both ways, mag only and IE only. Both work fine. When the LSE starts it uses slightly more advanced timing. I've never had kickback. If the fuel is flowing and the correct pressure is there, it will fire. LSE or Slick or either or both. I've sat by while Cirrus and Cessna sit there and crank, crank, crank. I never have such issues. Same procedure for hot start except full throttle and mixture out until it fires. Gotta be quick to get the throttle back. I normally run the boost pump a few seconds to get the boiled gas out of the line first. Lycoming IO-360. Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Brame Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 3:41 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Impulse Coupled Mag/Elec Ignition Wiring Jerry, I'll let Bob and others address the wiring, but thought I'd throw in my two cents on the mag/EI combination. I have an 0-320 like you and I chose an impulse coupled Slick mag on the left side, and a Jeff Rose ElectroAir EI system on the right. The benefits are the hotter firing EI system in cruise, with a conventional mag to get me home if the electrical system and/or the EI fail. Additionally, an impulse coupled mag is necessary for starts when the EI is not desirable or available. One gotcha, however. My ElectroAir EI is susceptible to a low voltage situation, thus it usually won't fire with the low voltage caused by the current draw when my SkyTec starter is engaged. Of course, the EI tends to fire as soon as the start switch is released with the possibility of a kickback. I'm not sure if the same situation is true for other EI systems, but it is something to check out. As recommended by Jeff Rose, I start my engine with the impulse mag on and the EI off. It has always started within the first couple of blades, hot or cold. Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB San Antonio ---------------------------------------------------------- > Time: 01:29:02 PM PST US > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Impulse Coupled Mag/Elec Ignition Wiring > From: Jerry Jerome > > Hi Bob, > > I wired the electrical system on my RV3 per Z-11 and installed the two > S-700 toggle switches for the magnetos/starter. I recently discovered > that that my engine (O-320 D2J) has two impulse coupled magnetos, not > one as I thought initially, and they are both shot so I am considering > replacing one magneto and replacing the other with a LSE Plasma III > electronic ignition. > Would it be be better to replace the one mag with an impulse coupled > mag rather than go to a non-impulse coupled one? If so, how would > that system be wired? I see Figure Z-27 shows how to wire up a > non-impulse coupled mag and one electronic ignition, but does not show > the wiring if that mag were impulsed coupled. Having one IC mag would > allow me the advantage of starting the engine on that mag should I > lose the electronic ignition. I could go to a full electronic system, > but feel there is an advantage to > keeping one mag because of having the different failure modes. > Also, not > sure if there is any difference in how an IC mag is driven by the > engine such that it could, if desired, be replaced by a non IC mag. > The mags I have now are both Slick 4251s with left hand rotation. > Thanks ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.