AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sat 03/03/12


Total Messages Posted: 18



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:01 AM - Lowrance 2000C NMEA/DGPS Adapter cable NDC-2 (Sam Staton)
     2. 06:06 AM - Lowrance 2000C NMEA/DGPS Adapter cable NDC-2 (Sam Staton)
     3. 07:38 AM - Burnouts Arbitrary? ()
     4. 08:11 AM - Re: Burnouts Arbitrary? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     5. 08:23 AM - Re: Lowrance 2000C NMEA/DGPS Adapter cable NDC-2 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     6. 09:10 AM - Re: battery chargers (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
     7. 09:36 AM - Re: Lowrance 2000C NMEA/DGPS Adapter cable NDC-2 (bob noffs)
     8. 09:37 AM - Re: battery chargers (David Lloyd)
     9. 09:39 AM - Re: battery chargers (bob noffs)
    10. 09:55 AM - Re: Lowrance 2000C NMEA/DGPS Adapter cable NDC-2 (David Lloyd)
    11. 10:26 AM - Re: Lowrance 2000C NMEA/DGPS Adapter cable NDC-2 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    12. 10:30 AM - Re: battery chargers (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
    13. 10:42 AM - Re: battery chargers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    14. 12:30 PM - Lamar DSX1240-1 Alternator overvoltage protection (Jeff Page)
    15. 01:16 PM - Re: Burnouts Arbitrary? (Ed Gilroy)
    16. 03:24 PM - Re: battery chargers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    17. 04:41 PM - Re: Lamar DSX1240-1 Alternator overvoltage protection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    18. 06:19 PM - Re: Lowrance 2000C NMEA/DGPS Adapter cable NDC-2 (Christopher Cee Stone)
 
 
 


Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:01:27 AM PST US
    Subject: Lowrance 2000C NMEA/DGPS Adapter cable NDC-2
    From: Sam Staton <pj260@bellsouth.net>
    Folks - I am attempting to get some use out of my orphan Lowrance GPS. I need to obtain the adapter cable that allows it to talk to other devices. It would seem that no one in this country has one for sale. My hope is that someone on the list has one they don't need and we can make a deal. Thanks in advance! Sam Staton Jacksonville, Fl (904) 223-9627 pj269@bellsouth.net Sent from my iPad


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:06:07 AM PST US
    Subject: Lowrance 2000C NMEA/DGPS Adapter cable NDC-2
    From: Sam Staton <pj260@bellsouth.net>
    If I have multiple posted this, please forgive my error! I am trying to get some use out of my orphan Lowrance GPS. I need to obtain the NMEA/DGPS adapter cable (NDC-2, Lowrance part number 101-36). I have not been able to find one for sale anywhere in this country. If someone on the list has one and doesn't have a need for it, please contact me! Sam Staton Jacksonville, FL (904) 223-9627 pj260@bellsouth.net Sent from my iPad


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:38:24 AM PST US
    From: <longg@pjm.com>
    Subject: Burnouts Arbitrary?
    I have a Garmin 340 which burned up a main board a few weeks ago. Garmin ga ve no particular excuse for the failure, so I thought I'd throw out the que stion. - Is it common for Audio Panels to self destruct? Mine is about 8 years old and worked normally up to the minute it failed. - The repair was flat rate at $600.00 so I don't want to throw it back in and have it go up in smoke again. - Any tests I can perform? I am using 5 amp ATC fuse(s) for power. I believe that is the recommended size. - The audio cables are custom built from Approach Fast Stack and h ave not been altered since new. Thanks for the ideas. Glenn 0 t


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:11:39 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Burnouts Arbitrary?
    At 09:36 AM 3/3/2012, you wrote: >I have a Garmin 340 which burned up a main board a few weeks ago. >Garmin gave no particular excuse for the failure, so I thought I'd >throw out the question. > >- Is it common for Audio Panels to self destruct? Mine is >about 8 years old and worked normally up to the minute it failed. No >- The repair was flat rate at $600.00 so I don't want to >throw it back in and have it go up in smoke again. Did it actually 'smoke' . . . or at least smell bad? >- Any tests I can perform? I am using 5 amp ATC fuse(s) for >power. I believe that is the recommended size. Sure, testing with a small fuse is one useful technique. I use a current limited power supply for similar explorations. You can set the short circuit current to any level from a few milliamps up to full output from the supply. Let's you explore a circuit's power management condition with little risk of subjecting it to further damage. Have you had it open? Can you see any char or signs of overheating? A experienced bench technician can do the sniff test and tell whether it's a component or burned trace .. . but if it's a burned trace . . . it will be obvious. Smoked integrated circuits can be hard to spot sometimes. Bob . . .


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:23:59 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Lowrance 2000C NMEA/DGPS Adapter cable NDC-2
    At 08:05 AM 3/3/2012, you wrote: > >If I have multiple posted this, please forgive my error! I am trying >to get some use out of my orphan Lowrance GPS. I need to obtain the >NMEA/DGPS adapter cable (NDC-2, Lowrance part number 101-36). I have >not been able to find one for sale anywhere in this country. If >someone on the list has one and doesn't have a need for it, please contact me! You can make one for a few dollars. The pinouts are here: http://pinouts.ru/pin_GPS.shtml Lowrance seems fond of propriatary connectors so you might have to jury-rig a connector using pins from another connector and some epoxy putty to craft a "body". Looks messy but it works. Bob . . .


    Message 6


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:10:12 AM PST US
    From: Hopperdhh@aol.com
    Subject: Re: battery chargers
    It would have to extend it by a lot of months to pay for itself. My last PC680 lasted 5 years without any help from a battery tender. That includes sitting for 3 or 4 weeks at a time during the Indiana winters with no charger at all. I finally replaced it even though it was still cranking my IO-360 fine, even on some hot starts that took 15 or 20 seconds. I was starting to worry that the vibration could be getting to it. I didn't want it to blow up!! You could buy another battery for less than the price of the battery tender. Am I missing something here? Dan RV-7A - N766DH - flying 7 years In a message dated 3/1/2012 6:32:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ralphmariafinch@gmail.com writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ralph Finch <ralphmariafinch@gmail.com> Aviation Consumer, October 2011, reviewed battery chargers and their headline said: Battery Chargers: VDC in a Walk VDC makes the only low-cost aviation-specific charger and using it can extend battery life by months. There are several models to pick from. They have a charger specific to the Odessey: http://www.batteryminders.com/batterycharger/catalog/BatteryMINDer-Aviation- Specific-12-Volt-8A-Odyssey-Speci-p-16168.html On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 8:30 AM, bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com> wrote: > hi bob, > saw a wedsite for ''aci'' battery chargers/tenders. are they really > better? it does seem that sometimes my schumacher tender doesn't keep my > odessey 620 fully charged. > bob noffs


    Message 7


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:36:55 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Lowrance 2000C NMEA/DGPS Adapter cable NDC-2
    From: bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com>
    fwiw, i have found a hot glue gun really handy for ''potting'' some things.i have used it for making a connector many times. bob noffs On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com**> > > > At 08:05 AM 3/3/2012, you wrote: > >> >> If I have multiple posted this, please forgive my error! I am trying to >> get some use out of my orphan Lowrance GPS. I need to obtain the NMEA/DGPS >> adapter cable (NDC-2, Lowrance part number 101-36). I have not been able to >> find one for sale anywhere in this country. If someone on the list has one >> and doesn't have a need for it, please contact me! >> > > You can make one for a few dollars. The pinouts are > here: > > http://pinouts.ru/pin_GPS.**shtml <http://pinouts.ru/pin_GPS.shtml> > > Lowrance seems fond of propriatary connectors > so you might have to jury-rig a connector using > pins from another connector and some epoxy > putty to craft a "body". Looks messy but it works. > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 8


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:37:36 AM PST US
    From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: battery chargers
    Dan, Many battery "maintainers/tenders" are well under $25 and do a very good job. That is certainly less than the cost of a new Gill or Concorde. David ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Hopperdhh@aol.com To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 9:08 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: battery chargers It would have to extend it by a lot of months to pay for itself. My last PC680 lasted 5 years without any help from a battery tender. That includes sitting for 3 or 4 weeks at a time during the Indiana winters with no charger at all. I finally replaced it even though it was still cranking my IO-360 fine, even on some hot starts that took 15 or 20 seconds. I was starting to worry that the vibration could be getting to it. I didn't want it to blow up!! You could buy another battery for less than the price of the battery tender. Am I missing something here? Dan RV-7A - N766DH - flying 7 years In a message dated 3/1/2012 6:32:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ralphmariafinch@gmail.com writes: <ralphmariafinch@gmail.com> Aviation Consumer, October 2011, reviewed battery chargers and their headline said: Battery Chargers: VDC in a Walk VDC makes the only low-cost aviation-specific charger and using it can extend battery life by months. There are several models to pick from. They have a charger specific to the Odessey: http://www.batteryminders.com/batterycharger/catalog/BatteryMINDer-Aviati on-Specific-12-Volt-8A-Odyssey-Speci-p-16168.html On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 8:30 AM, bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com> wrote: > hi bob, > saw a wedsite for ''aci'' battery chargers/tenders. are they really > better? it does seem that sometimes my schumacher tender doesn't keep my > odessey 620 fully charged. > bob = Use ilities ay - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - List Contribution Web Site p;


    Message 9


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:39:46 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: battery chargers
    From: bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com>
    thanks bob, as the prop was sent out to be shortened i guess no time like the present to pull the battery and get a load test done. bob noffs On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:42 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com**> > > > At 06:23 PM 3/1/2012, you wrote: > hi bob, i have had the schumacher 1562[?] on my 620 every day of the > battery's life. plane only first flew last fall so battery has not gotten > much use but it is at least 5 yrs old. charging is usually not an issue but > twice battery would not crank engine on initial start up. > > Any time the battery wont crank the engine after > sitting on a maintainer for any length of time, > The charger, the battery or both are suspect. > > > i was going to have the battery load tested but then it functioned fine so > the feeling went away. strange but it only took 20-30 minutes to bring the > battery up to full charge with a 12 AMP CHARGER. > > Which suggests that the battery is down to 6 a.h. or so. > > > Anyway, i don't mean to imply i have a problem i am looking for answers > to. i was curious about this ''new'' charger as they more or less stated > that fiberglass mat batteries require a different type of maintainer. > > Not true . . . > > > These new chargers have starting amps of 1,3, or 7 amps and taper down > from there. was wondering if conditions might stop a schumacher from > getting battery to full charge? > > If it's a real charger/maintainer and features a top-off > cycle of 14.5 volts or more, then any size charger will > bring any size battery up to snuff. It's just a matter of > time. > > My portable power batteries (50AH and 32 AH in parallel) > have been brought up on a 0.7A Battery Tender. The light > may stay red for a couple of days but it eventually > gets the job done. > > > I usually see 14 volts when i think to check it. i couldn't say what > voltage was on the 2 occasions it wouldn't turn over the engine. > > Suggest you do a cap-check on the battery. What > you've related thus far suggests the battery > is not airworthy. > > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 10


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:55:38 AM PST US
    From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: Lowrance 2000C NMEA/DGPS Adapter cable NDC-2
    Bob, Thanks for the link to GPS receiver "pin-outs..... Dave ____________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 8:23 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lowrance 2000C NMEA/DGPS Adapter cable NDC-2 > <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 08:05 AM 3/3/2012, you wrote: >> >>If I have multiple posted this, please forgive my error! I am trying to >>get some use out of my orphan Lowrance GPS. I need to obtain the NMEA/DGPS >>adapter cable (NDC-2, Lowrance part number 101-36). I have not been able >>to find one for sale anywhere in this country. If someone on the list has >>one and doesn't have a need for it, please contact me! > > You can make one for a few dollars. The pinouts are > here: > > http://pinouts.ru/pin_GPS.shtml > > Lowrance seems fond of propriatary connectors > so you might have to jury-rig a connector using > pins from another connector and some epoxy > putty to craft a "body". Looks messy but it works. > > Bob . . . >


    Message 11


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:26:42 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Lowrance 2000C NMEA/DGPS Adapter cable NDC-2
    At 11:36 AM 3/3/2012, you wrote: >fwiw, i have found a hot glue gun really handy for ''potting'' some >things.i have used it for making a connector many times. > bob noffs Yes! I've steered away from using hot-glue connector work-arounds in mobile environments. It gets pretty hot inside some closed vehicles and that stuff softens easily. But it's been very useful as a potting compound. I've "spider-webbed" circuits together onto the back side of a d-sub connector, mounted in a sturdy copper-clad box and supported the components with hot-glue. Even when soft, it will provide adequate support to the components and, of course, it is non-conductive. Bob . . .


    Message 12


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:30:01 AM PST US
    From: Hopperdhh@aol.com
    Subject: Re: battery chargers
    Hi David, I agree with you on the type of battery you mention. Although, I don't know anything about a $15 tender. If the electrolyte level gets low you can have an explosion. How do I know that?!! The tender in the link costs about $200 and is specific to the Odyssey. The Odyssey has a very slow self discharge rate compared to wet batteries, and shouldn't need to be charged unless there is a constant load of some kind on it. My plane doesn't have anything drawing current when it is off. Dan In a message dated 3/3/2012 12:38:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, skywagon@charter.net writes: Dan, Many battery "maintainers/tenders" are well under $25 and do a very good job. That is certainly less than the cost of a new Gill or Concorde. David ____________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: _Hopperdhh@aol.com_ (mailto:Hopperdhh@aol.com) (mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com) Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 9:08 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: battery chargers It would have to extend it by a lot of months to pay for itself. My last PC680 lasted 5 years without any help from a battery tender. That includes sitting for 3 or 4 weeks at a time during the Indiana winters with no charger at all. I finally replaced it even though it was still cranking my IO-360 fine, even on some hot starts that took 15 or 20 seconds. I was starting to worry that the vibration could be getting to it. I didn't want it to blow up!! You could buy another battery for less than the price of the battery tender. Am I missing something here? Dan RV-7A - N766DH - flying 7 years In a message dated 3/1/2012 6:32:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ralphmariafinch@gmail.com writes: <ralphmariafinch@gmail.com> Aviation Consumer, October 2011, reviewed battery chargers and their headline said: Battery Chargers: VDC in a Walk VDC makes the only low-cost aviation-specific charger and using it can extend battery life by months. There are several models to pick from. They have a charger specific to the Odessey: http://www.batteryminders.com/batterycharger/catalog/BatteryMINDer-Aviation- Specific-12-Volt-8A-Odyssey-Speci-p-16168.html On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 8:30 AM, bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com> wrote: > hi bob, > saw a wedsite for ''aci'' battery chargers/tenders. are they really > better? it does seem that sometimes my schumacher tender doesn't keep my > odessey 620 fully charged. > bob = Use ilities ay - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - List Contribution Web Site p; href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution)


    Message 13


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:42:51 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: battery chargers
    At 11:38 AM 3/3/2012, you wrote: >thanks bob, as the prop was sent out to be shortened i guess no time >like the present to pull the battery and get a load test done. LOAD and CAPACITY. That's one of the characteristics of SLVA batteries that tends to convince us they are flightworthy when in fact, they may not be. Their internal impedance is so much lower than a flooded battery that their capacity might well have dropped below your design goals for battery-only operations and still get the engine started. One of our members just completed the 'po boy's cap checker described here: Emacs! After you've LOAD tested a battery to see what current it will deliver when loaded down to 9v for 15 seconds, you recharge it and put this fixture on it, set the clock for noon (or midnight) and push the button. The relay will pull in and light the lamp thus placing about a 4A load on the battery. Adjust the number and size of lamps in parallel to get a load that approximates your alternator-out loads. When the relay drops, the clock stops and you've got a benchmark for how well the battery will support your electro-whizzies with a failed alternator. Batteries are mostly replaced in the heavy GA iron because they won't power the goodies . . . not because they won't start the engine. Bob . . .


    Message 14


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:30:51 PM PST US
    From: Jeff Page <jpx@qenesis.com>
    Subject: Lamar DSX1240-1 Alternator overvoltage protection
    Does anyone have additional information concerning the Lamar 40A alternator, part number DSX1240-1 ? A fellow builder purchased one from his engine builder and wants to add overvoltage protection. The website seems to be non-functional at the moment, so I have attached the diagram provided in the minimal installation instructions. If the attachment doesn't come through, you can see the diagram here: http://www.qenesis.com/Temp/LamarDSX1240-1.jpg To me, it looks like the separate connection for the field wire should work nicely with a typical overvoltage protection circuit designed to pop the breaker. Does anyone have specific knowledge or experience to know this will work ? The "alternator warning light" wiring is incompatible with an overvoltage protection circuit, since after the breaker has popped, the indicator cannot possible come on. Does anyone know if that indicator, supplied by another circuit, would correctly indicate a low voltage condition if the field supply is disconnected by the popped breaker ? Thanks, Jeff Page Dream Aircraft Tundra #10


    Message 15


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:16:16 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Burnouts Arbitrary?
    From: Ed Gilroy <egilroy@gmail.com>
    Is your avionics fan working? Lost a Garmin GPS to that a few years back. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 3, 2012, at 10:36 AM, <longg@pjm.com> wrote: > I have a Garmin 340 which burned up a main board a few weeks ago. Garmin g ave no particular excuse for the failure, so I thought I=99d throw out the question. > > - Is it common for Audio Panels to self destruct? Mine is about 8 years old and worked normally up to the minute it failed. > - The repair was flat rate at $600.00 so I don=99t want to t hrow it back in and have it go up in smoke again. > - Any tests I can perform? I am using 5 amp ATC fuse(s) for power . I believe that is the recommended size. > - The audio cables are custom built from Approach Fast Stack and h ave not been altered since new. > > > Thanks for the ideas. > > Glenn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 0 > t > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= >


    Message 16


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:24:15 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: battery chargers
    At 12:29 PM 3/3/2012, you wrote: Hi David, I agree with you on the type of battery you mention. Although, I don't know anything about a $15 tender. If the electrolyte level gets low you can have an explosion. How do I know that?!! Let us consider the Odyssey Technical Manual which may be downloaded from: http://www.odysseyfactory.com/documents/US-ODY-TM-001_0411_000.pdf First, I searched for the word "explosion" and didn't find it. Next I searched for the word "damage" and I find it 5 times. The word is used 4 times in the context of mechanical damage to the battery or damage to surroundings due to leakage. The 5th time is used on page 13 in the context of discussing deep discharge recovery processes. Techniques that may be successful in recovering a battery that has been BADLY DISCHARGED without benefit of a timely recharge. The tender in the link costs about $200 and is specific to the Odyssey. The Odyssey has a very slow self discharge rate compared to wet batteries, and shouldn't need to be charged unless there is a constant load of some kind on it. Or it was put away in a discharged state . . . like you've just spent the afternoon trolling, mowing the yard with a DC electric lawn mower, etc. etc. In situations where the battery is used to supply a major portion of it's rated capacity on each discharge cycle, then recharging it in a gentle, prescribed manner may be of some benefit to service life. But consider the use in most automotive applications including aircraft. You use 2 to 5% off the top to get the engine started. Then the alternator stuffs the energy back in at a prodigious rate set by what ever the alternator supplies over and above the vehicle's requirements. After some period of operation, the battery is soon topped of and presumably remains so until the next time the battery master is flipped on during pre-flight. It' is quite possible . . . nay probable that all batteries aboard airplanes are never ministered to by precision chargers . . . further, it's not clear how a battery would benefit from attendance by a precision charger if you DID have AC in the hangar and plugged the airplane in until the next flight. The particularly robust nature of the AGM battery was cited by another reader who offered: It would have to extend it by a lot of months to pay for itself. My last PC680 lasted 5 years without any help from a battery tender. That includes sitting for 3 or 4 weeks at a time during the Indiana winters with no charger at all. I finally replaced it even though it was still cranking my IO-360 fine, even on some hot starts that took 15 or 20 seconds. I was starting to worry that the vibration could be getting to it. I didn't want it to blow up!! You could buy another battery for less than the price of the battery tender. Am I missing something here? Concerns for blowing up AGM batteries have no foundation in physics of design or fact of service. The majority of liberated oxygen and hydrogen gasses never get out of the mats else they would not be available for recombination. I would encourage interested readers to compare the recommended 3-step charge profiles for AGM batteries. By the way, the Odyssey is but one of MANY AGM products all of which will benefit from the same sort of (Step 1) CC charge, (Step 2) CV top-off, (Step 3) CV sustenance at just over the open-circuit terminal voltage so as to offset self-discharge currents. The product literature shown at http://tinyurl.com/745n3tr gives rise to a number of questions. (1) Exactly what is meant by "aviation specific"? The percentage of batteries used in airplanes compared to all other applications is a spit in the ocean. Exactly what makes the battery worthy of $200 chargers just because it's bolted to an airplane? (2) Then there is the "Odyssey specific" thing. I spent a day touring the Enersys facilities in Mexico, MO a few years back. Got to walk through the highly automated factory and spend several hours in a conference room drinking their sodas while a bevy of engineers and marketing people assured me and my colleagues that the Enersys products were drop-in replacements for Gill, Concorde, Rebatt . . . you name it. Not one individual mentioned anything about special considerations for Enersys products bolted to airplanes or chargers necessary to maximize service life of an Odyssey product. In fact, aside from their 'pure lead' plates and highly automated manufacturing processes, there were no claims to fame other than absolute quality in comparison with other AGM products . . . no special treatments expected. (3) Then there's that "desulfator-conditioner" thing. Skipp Koss and I have discussed the marketing hype phenomenon surrounding so-called desulfation techniques. A battery that is badly discharged and allowed to sit will indeed suffer from the effects of large crystal formation that degrades the battery's performance. The deep discharge recovery techniques described in the Odyssey manual cited above are about word for word equal to the techniques described by Concorde (and I presume others). The "aviation specific" device described does not claim to conform with those recovery techniques. The word "sulfate" is not mentioned in any context in the Odyssey manual. Wikipedia speaks rather well to the sulfation process here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desulfation#Sulfation_and_desulfation But in particular, consider these statements . . . "Sulfation can be avoided if the battery is fully recharged immediately after a discharge cycle." and this one . . . SLI batteries (starting, lighting, ignition; i.e. car batteries) have less deterioration because they are used more frequently vs deep cycle batteries. Deep cycle batteries tend to require more desulfation, can suffer from overcharging, and can be in a very large bank which leads to unequal charging and discharging. As discussed earlier, it's a design goal to (1) use very little of the battery's capacity to star the engine followed by (2) a recharge event whereupon the battery is (3) held in a high state of charge as a reserve source of energy in the event of alternator failure. In this type of service, the battery can be expected to perform for hundreds of flight cycles as long as the battery is not put away in a degraded state of charge. (4) Then there's the guarantee: "We guarantee to significantly increase both your battery's life and performance or we will refund 100% of your money within one (1) full year. This is in addition to our five (5) year "no hassle" warranty." Not sure what all that means . . . but exactly how is John Q Public pilot supposed to make a quantitative evaluation the this charger's performance as he chooses to use it on his airplane? Without having laboratory grade data on batteries that failed too soon to compare with batteries blessed with their "aviation specific" charger, how would the dissatisfied consumer have a basis for complaint? (5) Then there's this notion that the battery being put away in the hangar is suffering from any state of discharge that calls for a kinder-gentler-precision recharge. (6) Finally, there's a statement in the Odyssey manual to the effect . . . "Small, portable automotive and powersport chargers may also be used to charge your ODYSSEY battery. These chargers are generally designed to bring a discharged battery to a state of charge (SOC) that is high enough to crank an engine. Once the engine is successfully cranked, its alternator should fully charge the battery. It is important to keep in mind the design limitations of these small chargers when using them." and this. . . "All ODYSSEY batteries can be quickly charged. The graph below shows their exceptional fast charge characteristics at a constant 14.7V for three levels of inrush current. These current levels are similar to the output currents of modern automotive alternators. Table 6 and Figure 7 show the capacity returned as a function of the magnitude of the inrush current." "Standard internal combustion engine alternators with an output voltage of 14.2V can also charge these batteries. The inrush current does not need to be limited under constant voltage charge. However, because the typical alternator voltage is only 14.2V instead of 14.7V, the charge times will be longer than those shown in Table 5." and finally this . . . "Another class of chargers is designed specifically to maintain a battery in a high SOC. These chargers, normally in the 3/4 amp to 11/2 amp range, are not big enough to charge a deeply discharged ODYSSEY=AE battery. They must only be used either to continuously compensate for parasitic losses or to maintain a trickle charge on a stored battery, as long as the correct voltages are applied. It is very important, therefore, to ensure that the ODYSSEY battery is fully charged before this type of charger is connected to it." From Odyssey's own literature, we find that their batteries can be charged under a host of protocols as long as limits are observed. I'll argue that the last paragraph is misleading . . . I've used Battery Tenders for years that only put out 3/4 of an amp or so. While under the supervision of one of these chargers I get these behaviors http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Battery_Tender_Recharge.pdf with a 1.5 Schumacher I get this http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_3.jpg When cap-checked after being on one of these chargers, I've had no indication whatsoever that the batteries were incompletely charged. I cannot see that the performance of these chargers is inconsistent with what I read in the Odyssey technical literature (or anyone else's for that matter. As to these devices being "too small" . . . I put a fully charged 33 AH AGM battery on a 100 mA constant current source and in less than 2 minutes, the terminal voltage rose to over 15 volts. I put the battery on a 14.7 constant voltage and in a few minutes, the charge current had fallen to under 100 mA. From this I infer that ANY size charter is probably capable of reaching and holding a top-off level of 14.2 to 14.7 volts and dropping to a maintaining level of 13.2 or so based on a nominal 'trigger' current for calling the battery charged. The point being that small chargers are capable of boosting the terminal voltage to the ranges recommended by Odyssey and others . . . it may just take more time. Bottom line is that for the way we use batteries in cars and airplanes (small percentage discharge cycles), there is little benefit for having any sort of charger . . . and at most, a $30 wall-wart Battery Tender or this $20 Schumacher from WalMart will suffice. Emacs! The whole "aviation specific" and "desulfation" business is lacking foundation for either effectiveness or necessity. Further, specialized recharging protocols are indicated when trying to recover a badly depleted battery . . . but not when putting your airplane away at the end of the day. Bob . . .


    Message 17


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:41:29 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Lamar DSX1240-1 Alternator overvoltage protection
    At 02:28 PM 3/3/2012, you wrote: Does anyone have additional information concerning the Lamar 40A alternator, part number DSX1240-1 ? A fellow builder purchased one from his engine builder and wants to add overvoltage protection. The website seems to be non-functional at the moment, so I have attached the diagram provided in the minimal installation instructions. If the attachment doesn't come through, you can see the diagram here: http://www.qenesis.com/Temp/LamarDSX1240-1.jpg To me, it looks like the separate connection for the field wire should work nicely with a typical overvoltage protection circuit designed to pop the breaker. This diagram has the look, feel and smell of the classic, internally regulated automotive alternator. Modification for external regulation (Like the B&C products) -OR- external OV protection for the existing regulator (like PlanePower) are the most practical approaches. Either one requires a knowledgeable disassembly and surgery to add OV protection to the field supply circuit. Alternatively, one can add a b-lead contactor and ov sensing as depicted here: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z24-Interim.pdf My best recommendation is to accomplish the necessary changes to remove the existing regulator and re-wire for external regulation typical of the Z-figures. Bob . . .


    Message 18


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:19:58 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Lowrance 2000C NMEA/DGPS Adapter cable NDC-2
    From: Christopher Cee Stone <rv8iator@gmail.com>
    I have one left over from a RV-8 project... Let me know if you are still interested... Chris Stone RV-8-2 Newberg, OR On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 5:59 AM, Sam Staton <pj260@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > Folks - > I am attempting to get some use out of my orphan Lowrance GPS. I > need to obtain the adapter cable that allows it to talk to other devices. > It would seem that no one in this country has one for sale. My hope is that > someone on the list has one they don't need and we can make a deal. Thanks > in advance! > > Sam Staton > Jacksonville, Fl > (904) 223-9627 > pj269@bellsouth.net > > Sent from my iPad > > Do not archive




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list
  • Browse AeroElectric-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --