Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:38 AM - Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (Charles Brame)
2. 06:36 AM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:53 AM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (ronburnett@charter.net)
4. 07:31 AM - Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (Michael Welch)
5. 08:40 AM - Re: OT: Old electronics info. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 09:39 AM - Re: OT: Old electronics info. (rayj)
7. 10:59 AM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (David Lloyd)
8. 11:20 AM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (Charlie England)
9. 11:56 AM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
10. 01:37 PM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (Jared Yates)
11. 02:51 PM - Re: OT: Old electronics info. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 02:58 PM - Re: Lamar DSX1240-1 Alternator (Jeff Page)
13. 03:23 PM - Simple electrical System for wooden biplane VFR (Efraim Otero)
14. 04:50 PM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (Noel Loveys)
15. 05:11 PM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (rayj)
16. 08:18 PM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? |
Is there anyway to rejuvenate an old NiCad battery? I have an iCOM
hand held radio with a rechargeable battery pack. I assume the battery
is a NiCad. The radio requires a 9.6v charge, but I can't get the pack
charged above 9.25v. At that level I can listen to the radio, but
cannot transmit. The charger that came with the radio puts out 10.4v
when hooked to the battery, but the battery voltage won't increase
even after a day or so of recharging. Is there any way to save this
battery pack?
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? |
At 02:37 AM 3/6/2012, you wrote:
>
>Is there anyway to rejuvenate an old NiCad battery? I have an iCOM
>hand held radio with a rechargeable battery pack. I assume the battery
>is a NiCad. The radio requires a 9.6v charge, but I can't get the pack
>charged above 9.25v. At that level I can listen to the radio, but
>cannot transmit. The charger that came with the radio puts out 10.4v
>when hooked to the battery, but the battery voltage won't increase
>even after a day or so of recharging. Is there any way to save this
>battery pack?
>
>Charlie Brame
>RV-6A N11CB
>San Antonio
Yes . . . maybe . . . and perhaps no. NiCads can suffer
certain degrading of chemistry that prevents any recovery.
Some 'failed' batteries have grown whisker-shorts in
the cells that MIGHT yield to a low voltage impulse
of many amps. For example, if you have access to a single
2 volt lead-acid cell or even another FAT ni-cad cell,
connecting it in parallel with the suspect whisker-short
might fuse it and recover the cell's utility.
The best advise I can offer is to re-cell your battery
pack. There are battery re-build companies that do this
quite well. Your battery pack is probably an array of
AA sized cells which you can purchase with solder tabs
from places like:
http://tinyurl.com/74c2x27
http://tinyurl.com/899bjcu
Bob . . .
Message 3
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Subject: | Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? |
You might take the battery to Wholesale Batts. to see what they have for
a replacement. I did that for a radio battery for my Luscombe that has
no elect. system. I had to modify the length of the case that held the
batt. but for less than $20 I have a much better system that I can
recharge. The old one quit recharging.
Good luck,
Ron Burnett
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 2:37 AM, Charles Brame wrote:
> <chasb@satx.rr.com>
>
> Is there anyway to rejuvenate an old NiCad battery? I have an iCOM
> hand held radio with a rechargeable battery pack. I assume the battery
> is a NiCad. The radio requires a 9.6v charge, but I can't get the pack
> charged above 9.25v. At that level I can listen to the radio, but
> cannot transmit. The charger that came with the radio puts out 10.4v
> when hooked to the battery, but the battery voltage won't increase
> even after a day or so of recharging. Is there any way to save this
> battery pack?
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A N11CB
> San Antonio
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? |
Charlie,
I also have an Icom handheld radio. Years ago, when my Icom A22 ni-cad OEM battery
pack died, I bought their
(expensive) AA battery holder (now they're half price). It comes empty, and you
simply use 10 of your rechargeable generic
AA batteries. In fact, you can use AA ni-cads, or AA NiMHs, or plain old Duracells.
It's just an empty compartment,
and you fill it up with 10 rechargeable AA batteries.
For years I've just used the 1.2 volt NiMH's I got off of eBay. A couple of
years ago, I bought the new rechargeable
1.5 volts models, although it worked just fine on the (10) 1.2 volt versions.
Here is the container for the A22. I would imagine you could get one of these
for all their handheld models, although I haven't looked.
(you didn't mention what model you have)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CM-167-10-AA-Cell-Battery-Case-ICOM-Air-Band-IC-A3-IC-A3E-IC-A22-IC-A22E-/160650004281
?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25677c8739#ht_3307wt_1063
Mike Welch
> At 02:37 AM 3/6/2012, you wrote:
>>
>> Is there anyway to rejuvenate an old NiCad battery? I have an iCOM
>> hand held radio with a rechargeable battery pack. I assume the battery
>> is a NiCad. The radio requires a 9.6v charge, but I can't get the pack
>> charged above 9.25v. At that level I can listen to the radio, but
>> cannot transmit. The charger that came with the radio puts out 10.4v
>> when hooked to the battery, but the battery voltage won't increase
>> even after a day or so of recharging. Is there any way to save this
>> battery pack?
>>
>> Charlie Brame
>> RV-6A N11CB
>> San Antonio
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: OT: Old electronics info. |
At 09:23 PM 3/5/2012, you wrote:
>
>Greetings,
>
>I have an Acme Voltrol type T-2-1404 variable transformer I'm using
>to set up a power supply for my bench. Can anyone tell me where I
>can get the max Amps or VA rating for it?
What are the physical dimensions of this device?
>I also have a big red rectifier that is about a 6" cube of fins
Sounds like a selenium rectifier . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selenium_rectifier
Certainly something you'd want to replace with
a silicon bridge rectifier.
> and an inductor that is the size of a softball and
> weighs >10lb. Neither have any identifying marks on them.
The inductor would be used in concert with one or more
capacitors to smooth the full-wave rectified DC output
current.
How would you want to use this supply? Variable transformers
are auto-transformers that generally deliver 0-100% or perhaps
135% of input voltage depending on how they are wired. The
have output wires in common with the input wires. In other words
they are not isolated from the AC line . . . so there are potential
shock hazards to consider when using these as the sole controlling
device for variable voltage. Further, unless you need to do testing
at voltages above 14 or 28 volts, you would not be able to use
much of the transformer's dynamic range.
You would probably want to use the variable transformer to
drive a 120 to 12 or 24 volt transformer. This will make
better use of the variable transformer's utility and
possibly get you more current capability too.
Getting smooth DC is another problem. You can probably
use the inductor you have and add some capacitors . . .
but you're going to find that the output voltage is
very poorly regulated with respect to changing loads.
Suggest you consider an electronically regulated
bench power supply like:
Emacs!
Devices like this will give you stable, current limited,
smooth and very adjustable output. This one is $75 off
of ebay. You might be able to sell your venerable
components and cover much of the cost a supply like this.
I have 5 such supplies here in shop ranging in output
from 200 Ma to 50 amps. They're invaluable tools when
they perform well . . . I'm pretty sure that after you
spend the time hammering a supply together using the
parts you have, you'll be disappointed in the performance.
I have one variable transformer controlled supply. It's
for providing low current, 0-500 volts dc for some vacuum
tube work I was doing years ago. Haven't used it in years
but I'll be showing it (and the vacuum tubes) to my grandsons.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: OT: Old electronics info. |
Bob,
I think you correct in identifying the rectifier.
The Voltrol is about 4x4x8. It has 2 ranges covering 0-140 V. Weighs
about 20 lb.
It was originally set up with 2 50V caps and the inductor.
I have it breadboarded with a bridge rectifier and cap/resistor filter.
I have some projects which require 50-90 V DC and 10-15 amps. I don't
think the Voltrol will pass more than about 5 amps based on the size of
the wire on the windings. But I'd rather know than guess.
How critical is the matching of the inductor with a pair of caps to use
as filter, similar to the one that was originally used? Of course I
would use caps with high enough voltage ratings. I'm willing to deal
with the poor filtering to get the utility for little $. Might even
consider building a regulating circuit at a later time.
I have a couple of Heathkit regulated power supplies for most of the
electronic bench work.
One other question. I have a couple of Simpson amp meters, the one's
that are about 3" in diameter. One ac and one dc. Are those designed to
be wired in series with the load, or do they need a shunt of some sort?
Unfortunately I didn't pay close attention when I salvaged these.
I regret having to take time on the list, but I've spent hours on the
net without any success.
Thanks for taking time to share your knowledge.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/06/2012 10:38 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 09:23 PM 3/5/2012, you wrote:
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I have an Acme Voltrol type T-2-1404 variable transformer I'm using to
>> set up a power supply for my bench. Can anyone tell me where I can get
>> the max Amps or VA rating for it?
>
> What are the physical dimensions of this device?
>
>
>> I also have a big red rectifier that is about a 6" cube of fins
>
>
> Sounds like a selenium rectifier . . .
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selenium_rectifier
>
>
> Certainly something you'd want to replace with
> a silicon bridge rectifier.
>
>> and an inductor that is the size of a softball and weighs >10lb.
>> Neither have any identifying marks on them.
>
> The inductor would be used in concert with one or more
> capacitors to smooth the full-wave rectified DC output
> current.
>
> How would you want to use this supply? Variable transformers
> are auto-transformers that generally deliver 0-100% or perhaps
> 135% of input voltage depending on how they are wired. The
> have output wires in common with the input wires. In other words
> they are not isolated from the AC line . . . so there are potential
> shock hazards to consider when using these as the sole controlling
> device for variable voltage. Further, unless you need to do testing
> at voltages above 14 or 28 volts, you would not be able to use
> much of the transformer's dynamic range.
>
> You would probably want to use the variable transformer to
> drive a 120 to 12 or 24 volt transformer. This will make
> better use of the variable transformer's utility and
> possibly get you more current capability too.
>
> Getting smooth DC is another problem. You can probably
> use the inductor you have and add some capacitors . . .
> but you're going to find that the output voltage is
> very poorly regulated with respect to changing loads.
>
> Suggest you consider an electronically regulated
> bench power supply like:
>
> Emacs!
>
> Devices like this will give you stable, current limited,
> smooth and very adjustable output. This one is $75 off
> of ebay. You might be able to sell your venerable
> components and cover much of the cost a supply like this.
>
> I have 5 such supplies here in shop ranging in output
> from 200 Ma to 50 amps. They're invaluable tools when
> they perform well . . . I'm pretty sure that after you
> spend the time hammering a supply together using the
> parts you have, you'll be disappointed in the performance.
>
> I have one variable transformer controlled supply. It's
> for providing low current, 0-500 volts dc for some vacuum
> tube work I was doing years ago. Haven't used it in years
> but I'll be showing it (and the vacuum tubes) to my grandsons.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? |
Mike,
Great tip for the Icom A-22..Thanks.
David
PS: I do not know any way to rejuvenate an aged, encapsulated NiCad
'battery' pack. If one has surgical skills and can cut the pack apart, then
you can find and toss the offending cell(s). By that time, it would make
more sense to toss them all and start with all fresh. Still a big job for
encapsulated type batteries....
___________________________________________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Welch" <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 7:28 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery?
> <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
>
> Charlie,
>
> I also have an Icom handheld radio. Years ago, when my Icom A22 ni-cad
> OEM battery pack died, I bought their
> (expensive) AA battery holder (now they're half price). It comes empty,
> and you simply use 10 of your rechargeable generic
> AA batteries. In fact, you can use AA ni-cads, or AA NiMHs, or plain old
> Duracells. It's just an empty compartment,
> and you fill it up with 10 rechargeable AA batteries.
>
> For years I've just used the 1.2 volt NiMH's I got off of eBay. A couple
> of years ago, I bought the new rechargeable
> 1.5 volts models, although it worked just fine on the (10) 1.2 volt
> versions.
>
> Here is the container for the A22. I would imagine you could get one of
> these for all their handheld models, although I haven't looked.
> (you didn't mention what model you have)
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CM-167-10-AA-Cell-Battery-Case-ICOM-Air-Band-IC-A3-IC-A3E-IC-A22-IC-A22E-/160650004281
> ?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25677c8739#ht_3307wt_1063
>
>
> Mike Welch
>
>
>> At 02:37 AM 3/6/2012, you wrote:
>>> <chasb@satx.rr.com>
>>>
>>> Is there anyway to rejuvenate an old NiCad battery? I have an iCOM
>>> hand held radio with a rechargeable battery pack. I assume the battery
>>> is a NiCad. The radio requires a 9.6v charge, but I can't get the pack
>>> charged above 9.25v. At that level I can listen to the radio, but
>>> cannot transmit. The charger that came with the radio puts out 10.4v
>>> when hooked to the battery, but the battery voltage won't increase
>>> even after a day or so of recharging. Is there any way to save this
>>> battery pack?
>>>
>>> Charlie Brame
>>> RV-6A N11CB
>>> San Antonio
>
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? |
I've done the 'repopulate' trick in an OEM pack (different brand radio)
by replacing the nicads with NiMH to get roughly the same voltage & more
AH's. Still had to stuff the pack with packing material to take up the
empty space in the pack. Still working fine after many months; I use the
same AC charger that came with the radio.
Charlie
On 03/06/2012 12:57 PM, David Lloyd wrote:
> <skywagon@charter.net>
>
> Mike,
> Great tip for the Icom A-22..Thanks.
> David
> PS: I do not know any way to rejuvenate an aged, encapsulated NiCad
> 'battery' pack. If one has surgical skills and can cut the pack
> apart, then you can find and toss the offending cell(s). By that
> time, it would make more sense to toss them all and start with all
> fresh. Still a big job for encapsulated type batteries....
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Welch"
> <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 7:28 AM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery?
>
>
>> <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
>>
>> Charlie,
>>
>> I also have an Icom handheld radio. Years ago, when my Icom A22
>> ni-cad OEM battery pack died, I bought their
>> (expensive) AA battery holder (now they're half price). It comes
>> empty, and you simply use 10 of your rechargeable generic
>> AA batteries. In fact, you can use AA ni-cads, or AA NiMHs, or plain
>> old Duracells. It's just an empty compartment,
>> and you fill it up with 10 rechargeable AA batteries.
>>
>> For years I've just used the 1.2 volt NiMH's I got off of eBay. A
>> couple of years ago, I bought the new rechargeable
>> 1.5 volts models, although it worked just fine on the (10) 1.2 volt
>> versions.
>>
>> Here is the container for the A22. I would imagine you could get
>> one of these for all their handheld models, although I haven't looked.
>> (you didn't mention what model you have)
>>
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CM-167-10-AA-Cell-Battery-Case-ICOM-Air-Band-IC-A3-IC-A3E-IC-A22-IC-A22E-/160650004281
>>
>> ?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25677c8739#ht_3307wt_1063
>>
>>
>> Mike Welch
>>
>>
>>
>>> At 02:37 AM 3/6/2012, you wrote:
>>>> <chasb@satx.rr.com>
>>>>
>>>> Is there anyway to rejuvenate an old NiCad battery? I have an iCOM
>>>> hand held radio with a rechargeable battery pack. I assume the battery
>>>> is a NiCad. The radio requires a 9.6v charge, but I can't get the pack
>>>> charged above 9.25v. At that level I can listen to the radio, but
>>>> cannot transmit. The charger that came with the radio puts out 10.4v
>>>> when hooked to the battery, but the battery voltage won't increase
>>>> even after a day or so of recharging. Is there any way to save this
>>>> battery pack?
>>>>
>>>> Charlie Brame
>>>> RV-6A N11CB
>>>> San Antonio
>>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? |
Just a quick note on AA and AAA rechargeable cells. The latest and
greatest LSD NiMh cells are well, great! LSD is Low Self Discharge, so
cells that have LSD membranes can go a long period of time without
discharging. Home Depot sells Energizer cells in AA and AAA that are LSD
cells. I also find in the cold they work well. I haven't tried to
solder them yet, but I suspect it will not be a problem. Normally
soldering I scuff with a little 100 or so sandpaper, clean with Isopropyl
alcohol, put a mini drop of mild activated flux, using a 150 watt iron
quickly touch, get solder to flow (this happens very quickly) and cool
with a damp paper towel "right now!). To interconnect cells I use
solder braid not allowing it to wick and make the braid solid. Works
great. You can use a lower wattage iron, but don't mess around, flow
and cool. I don't think I ever lost a battery due to damaging because
of soldering.
Once you solder them into a pack, just use a conmstant 1/10C style
charger or a peak charger if you have one. An LM1117 or LM317 with one
resistor as bob suggested a while back works fine. Charge C/10 for 14 to
16 hours.
The worst batteries I ever had to solder were long ago LiIon can cells.
For those I tinned with Utectic acid core solder. It was some sort of
stainless that I just couldn't get to tin with all the solders and
fluxes I could find. The Utectic is pretty amazing stuff. Once tinned I
solder sucked off as much as I could, then tinned and sucked a few times
with 63-37, then soldered the braid on. I did that pack in the
early2000s, and there is no sign of corrosion or eroding on that pack as
of today.
Ron P.
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? |
I'm also very impressed with the LSD cells. I soldered a pack just like usua
l and they behaved just as the nicd cells always have. It's nice to be able t
o pick up the rc airplane transmitter and not have to worry about whether it
has been on the charger lately. I would recommend these cells especially fo
r applications that involve such infrequent use.
On Mar 6, 2012, at 14:54, rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote:
> Just a quick note on AA and AAA rechargeable cells. The latest and greates
t LSD NiMh cells are well, great! LSD is Low Self Discharge, so cells that h
ave LSD membranes can go a long period of time without discharging. Home Dep
ot sells Energizer cells in AA and AAA that are LSD cells. I also find in th
e cold they work well. I haven't tried to solder them yet, but I suspect it w
ill not be a problem. Normally soldering I scuff with a little 100 or so san
dpaper, clean with Isopropyl alcohol, put a mini drop of mild activated flux
, using a 150 watt iron quickly touch, get solder to flow (this happens very
quickly) and cool with a damp paper towel "right now!). To interconnect cel
ls I use solder braid not allowing it to wick and make the braid solid. Work
s great. You can use a lower wattage iron, but don't mess around, flow and c
ool. I don't think I ever lost a battery due to damaging because of solderin
g.
>
> Once you solder them into a pack, just use a conmstant 1/10C style charger
or a peak charger if you have one. An LM1117 or LM317 with one resistor as b
ob suggested a while back works fine. Charge C/10 for 14 to 16 hours.
>
> The worst batteries I ever had to solder were long ago LiIon can cells. Fo
r those I tinned with Utectic acid core solder. It was some sort of stainles
s that I just couldn't get to tin with all the solders and fluxes I could fi
nd. The Utectic is pretty amazing stuff. Once tinned I solder sucked off as m
uch as I could, then tinned and sucked a few times with 63-37, then soldered
the braid on. I did that pack in the early2000s, and there is no sign of co
rrosion or eroding on that pack as of today.
>
> Ron P.
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: OT: Old electronics info. |
Almost forgot. If all you want to do is fire up
your airplane or car's accessories on the bench,
perhaps you don't even need an adjustable power
supply and meters. These power supplies are
http://tinyurl.com/7dqjkve
Emacs!
an excellent value. This 13.5 volt, 28A power supply
is $40 delivered to your door. 28 amps will run a lot
of stuff.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Lamar DSX1240-1 Alternator |
Bob,
I failed at a search for a schematic of a typical internally regulated
alternator.
I am trying to understand the purpose of the wire to the alternator
via the 5A breaker and the "alternator switch".
One possibility is that it improves regulation by sensing the voltage
without the drop in the main feed wire. In this application, that
seems like overkill, so probably not it.
One website hinted at a way of preventing the alternator from charging
until the car was running. The control could be only used to turn the
alternator on, but not off.
Although a contactor could be installed per Z-24, that seems like a
poor way to patch the problem.
I don't know if my fellow builder is up to the task of modifying the
alternator. Unfortunately, he is in a different country than I, so I
can't just pop over to look at it. I expect it voids the warranty to
cut the regulator out. I expect the best thing is to recommend that
he obtain a more suitable alternator.
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
> Time: 04:41:29 PM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lamar DSX1240-1 Alternator
> overvoltage protection
>
>
> At 02:28 PM 3/3/2012, you wrote:
> Does anyone have additional information concerning the Lamar 40A
> alternator, part number DSX1240-1 ?
>
> A fellow builder purchased one from his engine builder and wants to
> add overvoltage protection.
>
> The website seems to be non-functional at the moment, so I have
> attached the diagram provided in the minimal installation
> instructions. If the attachment doesn't come through, you can see the
> diagram here:
> http://www.qenesis.com/Temp/LamarDSX1240-1.jpg
>
> To me, it looks like the separate connection for the field wire should
> work nicely with a typical overvoltage protection circuit designed to
> pop the breaker.
>
>
> This diagram has the look, feel and smell of the
> classic, internally regulated automotive alternator.
> Modification for external regulation (Like the
> B&C products) -OR- external OV protection
> for the existing regulator (like PlanePower)
> are the most practical approaches.
>
> Either one requires a knowledgeable disassembly
> and surgery to add OV protection to the field
> supply circuit. Alternatively, one can add a
> b-lead contactor and ov sensing as depicted
> here:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z24-Interim.pdf
>
> My best recommendation is to accomplish the
> necessary changes to remove the existing
> regulator and re-wire for external regulation
> typical of the Z-figures.
>
>
> Bob . . .
Message 13
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Subject: | Simple electrical System for wooden biplane VFR |
Dear All:
I am new here and after buying, reading and poring over Bob Nuckolls=92 boo
k,
I am still as ignorant as ever! (no real news there=85)
I have a wood Celebrity biplane powered by a Continental O200A. Starting is
done via a Skytec Lightweight starter and 12 v 18 amp battery.
No alternator as it was removed because it weighed more than the plane!! I
do have the gears and they seem to work with a B&C O200G which I am
ordering from Aircraft Spruce. It says it puts out 14 v and 12 amps.
I want to install it to charge my 12V, 18 Amp battery and provide power to
a Sandia transponder and a Flightline radio in the future. For now only to
power my Icom IC-A24 Nav Com handheld.
Any suggestions on what I need? Wire gauge? Shielding for radios?
Also, my radio receives a clackety clack noise which sounds like the
engine!? Might I need to change the ignition harness??
*Ephraim Otero*
Message 14
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Subject: | Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? |
Having rebuilt several Ni-Cad packs I agree with you entirely. When one
cell bites the bullet you can be sure the rest are not far behind. What I
would suggest is to build another pack from newer NIMIH cells which have
longer life and less memory effect. Get the ones with the soldering tabs
already in place.
All these cells do auto discharge and you will find the total power they
can hold (capacity) deteriorates with age. You can reduce this
deterioration by only charging your cells to 70% and allowing then to
discharge only to 40%. From what I've read, a cell fully charged will lose
20% of its capacity in a year. A cell kept between 40 and 70% charge will
lose only 2% of its capacity. I think Lithium Ion cells also lose capacity
in similar quantities... Makes one think about all those little cells in
electric cars eh?
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Lloyd
Sent: March 6, 2012 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery?
--> <skywagon@charter.net>
Mike,
Great tip for the Icom A-22..Thanks.
David
PS: I do not know any way to rejuvenate an aged, encapsulated NiCad
'battery' pack. If one has surgical skills and can cut the pack apart, then
you can find and toss the offending cell(s). By that time, it would make
more sense to toss them all and start with all fresh. Still a big job for
encapsulated type batteries....
___________________________________________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Welch" <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 7:28 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery?
> <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
>
> Charlie,
>
> I also have an Icom handheld radio. Years ago, when my Icom A22 ni-cad
> OEM battery pack died, I bought their
> (expensive) AA battery holder (now they're half price). It comes empty,
> and you simply use 10 of your rechargeable generic
> AA batteries. In fact, you can use AA ni-cads, or AA NiMHs, or plain old
> Duracells. It's just an empty compartment,
> and you fill it up with 10 rechargeable AA batteries.
>
> For years I've just used the 1.2 volt NiMH's I got off of eBay. A couple
> of years ago, I bought the new rechargeable
> 1.5 volts models, although it worked just fine on the (10) 1.2 volt
> versions.
>
> Here is the container for the A22. I would imagine you could get one of
> these for all their handheld models, although I haven't looked.
> (you didn't mention what model you have)
>
>
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CM-167-10-AA-Cell-Battery-Case-ICOM-Air-Band-IC-A3-I
C-A3E-IC-A22-IC-A22E-/160650004281
> ?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25677c8739#ht_3307wt_1063
>
>
> Mike Welch
>
>
>> At 02:37 AM 3/6/2012, you wrote:
>>> <chasb@satx.rr.com>
>>>
>>> Is there anyway to rejuvenate an old NiCad battery? I have an iCOM
>>> hand held radio with a rechargeable battery pack. I assume the battery
>>> is a NiCad. The radio requires a 9.6v charge, but I can't get the pack
>>> charged above 9.25v. At that level I can listen to the radio, but
>>> cannot transmit. The charger that came with the radio puts out 10.4v
>>> when hooked to the battery, but the battery voltage won't increase
>>> even after a day or so of recharging. Is there any way to save this
>>> battery pack?
>>>
>>> Charlie Brame
>>> RV-6A N11CB
>>> San Antonio
>
>
>
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? |
Question: How do you determine the percent charge on a battery pack. Is
it by voltage or current or what. That's one of my pet peeves with
rechargeables in everything. The batteries die from old age rather than
from reaching the max number of cycles.
Looking forward to hearing about this.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/06/2012 06:48 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys"<noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
> Having rebuilt several Ni-Cad packs I agree with you entirely. When one
> cell bites the bullet you can be sure the rest are not far behind. What I
> would suggest is to build another pack from newer NIMIH cells which have
> longer life and less memory effect. Get the ones with the soldering tabs
> already in place.
>
> All these cells do auto discharge and you will find the total power they
> can hold (capacity) deteriorates with age. You can reduce this
> deterioration by only charging your cells to 70% and allowing then to
> discharge only to 40%. From what I've read, a cell fully charged will lose
> 20% of its capacity in a year. A cell kept between 40 and 70% charge will
> lose only 2% of its capacity. I think Lithium Ion cells also lose capacity
> in similar quantities... Makes one think about all those little cells in
> electric cars eh?
>
> Noel
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? |
At 07:09 PM 3/6/2012, you wrote:
>
>Question: How do you determine the percent charge on a battery pack.
>Is it by voltage or current or what. That's one of my pet peeves
>with rechargeables in everything. The batteries die from old age
>rather than from reaching the max number of cycles.
>
>Looking forward to hearing about this.
Okay, but you're probably not going to like it.
Some years ago I wrote an article about the economics
of using house branded AA cells in my airborne hardware.
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/AA_Bat_Test.pdf
The thrust of the article went to in-flight reliability
of my battery powered hand held GPS and Comm radios
coupled with risk mitigation. One night over west
TX I found it necessary to change the four AA cells
out in my GPS receiver. During the fumbles with the
loose cells in the bottom of the flight bag, I dropped
one of the last good set of four cells on the deck.
We'll you can guess how THAT went. Had to turn
on the (ugh) VOR receivers and finish the trip.
This event started a train of thought to deduce
(1) the practicality of carrying a charger on
trips - another piece of hardware - and using
rechargeable batteries to be topped off before
flight . . . or simply putting new cells into the
device and pitching them when I got home.
I'd already wrestled with the ni-cads for my
flashguns and found that under less than ideal
conditions, I MIGHT be good for a several dozen
cycles . . . but when the flash gun craps in
the middle of a shoot and only one cell out of
the 4 was bad . . . the economics of hassle
was rearing an ugly head.
I did try to establish sets of cells that
had been cap-checked in the last 10 cycles
or so and tried to keep cells of similar
capacity together. This also spotted cells
that were crapping out. I'd pitch them when
they dropped to 75% of capacity. That preventative
maintenance process improved on-the-job reliability
but it also took TIME that was not adding value.
When cheap cells became available on eBay, I
started dating the new cells when I put them
in service and pitched them at 6 months.
The cost of time to test them exceeded the
value of the cells!
Premium, highly advertised batteries in
one radio (or flashgun) was worth a gallon
of gas. So I began to wonder just how bad the
el-cheeso brands of AA alkaline battery could be.
In the article, you read how even the least
expensive cells (about 22 cents apiece)
offered VERY good value for contained energy.
That's when I began the practice of installing
a fresh set of cells to go outbound, another
fresh set to come home. Fresh batteries
were dropped into the flight bag with a piece
of masking tape on them. I took the tape off
when the battery was installed. When I got
home un-tapped batteries were pressed into
other service and I never found myself fiddling
with batteries and battery box covers in flight.
Wrestling with Ni-Cd or Ni-Mh arrays still
comes with the attendant uncertainties. Just
how good are these cells and how closely
matched are they for capacity? So to this day,
I still don't use rechargeable cells in flight
hardware or mission critical devices. The AA
cells are so cheap that keeping fresh ones in
the electrowhizzy takes very little time,
attention and/or expense.
Now, the short answer to your question: You
need a device tailored to the task of fully
discharging a cell and reporting its contained
energy. I.e. a cap-checker. If you use a lot
of loose cells, this isn't too hard but if
the cells in question are in a soldered up
array inside a radio . . . you're flying
"blind" with respect to the real reliability
of the device.
Cell arrays that are regularly excerised seem
to do real well. My Makita and DeWalt drill
batteries seem to be good for a year or more
but there's a fast charger nearby with another
battery of unknown quality setting in it.
Rechargeable batteries are fine on the ground
but I'm reluctant to fly with them as part
of my failure tolerance team of electrowhizzies.
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Vacination_for_Dark_Panel_Syndrom.pdf
Bob . . .
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