---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/06/12: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:38 AM - Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (Charles Brame) 2. 06:36 AM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 06:53 AM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (ronburnett@charter.net) 4. 07:31 AM - Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (Michael Welch) 5. 08:40 AM - Re: OT: Old electronics info. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 09:39 AM - Re: OT: Old electronics info. (rayj) 7. 10:59 AM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (David Lloyd) 8. 11:20 AM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (Charlie England) 9. 11:56 AM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 10. 01:37 PM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (Jared Yates) 11. 02:51 PM - Re: OT: Old electronics info. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 02:58 PM - Re: Lamar DSX1240-1 Alternator (Jeff Page) 13. 03:23 PM - Simple electrical System for wooden biplane VFR (Efraim Otero) 14. 04:50 PM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (Noel Loveys) 15. 05:11 PM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (rayj) 16. 08:18 PM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:38:48 AM PST US From: Charles Brame Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? Is there anyway to rejuvenate an old NiCad battery? I have an iCOM hand held radio with a rechargeable battery pack. I assume the battery is a NiCad. The radio requires a 9.6v charge, but I can't get the pack charged above 9.25v. At that level I can listen to the radio, but cannot transmit. The charger that came with the radio puts out 10.4v when hooked to the battery, but the battery voltage won't increase even after a day or so of recharging. Is there any way to save this battery pack? Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB San Antonio ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:57 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? At 02:37 AM 3/6/2012, you wrote: > >Is there anyway to rejuvenate an old NiCad battery? I have an iCOM >hand held radio with a rechargeable battery pack. I assume the battery >is a NiCad. The radio requires a 9.6v charge, but I can't get the pack >charged above 9.25v. At that level I can listen to the radio, but >cannot transmit. The charger that came with the radio puts out 10.4v >when hooked to the battery, but the battery voltage won't increase >even after a day or so of recharging. Is there any way to save this >battery pack? > >Charlie Brame >RV-6A N11CB >San Antonio Yes . . . maybe . . . and perhaps no. NiCads can suffer certain degrading of chemistry that prevents any recovery. Some 'failed' batteries have grown whisker-shorts in the cells that MIGHT yield to a low voltage impulse of many amps. For example, if you have access to a single 2 volt lead-acid cell or even another FAT ni-cad cell, connecting it in parallel with the suspect whisker-short might fuse it and recover the cell's utility. The best advise I can offer is to re-cell your battery pack. There are battery re-build companies that do this quite well. Your battery pack is probably an array of AA sized cells which you can purchase with solder tabs from places like: http://tinyurl.com/74c2x27 http://tinyurl.com/899bjcu Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:09 AM PST US From: ronburnett@charter.net Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? You might take the battery to Wholesale Batts. to see what they have for a replacement. I did that for a radio battery for my Luscombe that has no elect. system. I had to modify the length of the case that held the batt. but for less than $20 I have a much better system that I can recharge. The old one quit recharging. Good luck, Ron Burnett On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 2:37 AM, Charles Brame wrote: > > > Is there anyway to rejuvenate an old NiCad battery? I have an iCOM > hand held radio with a rechargeable battery pack. I assume the battery > is a NiCad. The radio requires a 9.6v charge, but I can't get the pack > charged above 9.25v. At that level I can listen to the radio, but > cannot transmit. The charger that came with the radio puts out 10.4v > when hooked to the battery, but the battery voltage won't increase > even after a day or so of recharging. Is there any way to save this > battery pack? > > Charlie Brame > RV-6A N11CB > San Antonio > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:11 AM PST US From: Michael Welch Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? Charlie, I also have an Icom handheld radio. Years ago, when my Icom A22 ni-cad OEM battery pack died, I bought their (expensive) AA battery holder (now they're half price). It comes empty, and you simply use 10 of your rechargeable generic AA batteries. In fact, you can use AA ni-cads, or AA NiMHs, or plain old Duracells. It's just an empty compartment, and you fill it up with 10 rechargeable AA batteries. For years I've just used the 1.2 volt NiMH's I got off of eBay. A couple of years ago, I bought the new rechargeable 1.5 volts models, although it worked just fine on the (10) 1.2 volt versions. Here is the container for the A22. I would imagine you could get one of these for all their handheld models, although I haven't looked. (you didn't mention what model you have) http://www.ebay.com/itm/CM-167-10-AA-Cell-Battery-Case-ICOM-Air-Band-IC-A3-IC-A3E-IC-A22-IC-A22E-/160650004281 ?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25677c8739#ht_3307wt_1063 Mike Welch > At 02:37 AM 3/6/2012, you wrote: >> >> Is there anyway to rejuvenate an old NiCad battery? I have an iCOM >> hand held radio with a rechargeable battery pack. I assume the battery >> is a NiCad. The radio requires a 9.6v charge, but I can't get the pack >> charged above 9.25v. At that level I can listen to the radio, but >> cannot transmit. The charger that came with the radio puts out 10.4v >> when hooked to the battery, but the battery voltage won't increase >> even after a day or so of recharging. Is there any way to save this >> battery pack? >> >> Charlie Brame >> RV-6A N11CB >> San Antonio ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:24 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OT: Old electronics info. At 09:23 PM 3/5/2012, you wrote: > >Greetings, > >I have an Acme Voltrol type T-2-1404 variable transformer I'm using >to set up a power supply for my bench. Can anyone tell me where I >can get the max Amps or VA rating for it? What are the physical dimensions of this device? >I also have a big red rectifier that is about a 6" cube of fins Sounds like a selenium rectifier . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selenium_rectifier Certainly something you'd want to replace with a silicon bridge rectifier. > and an inductor that is the size of a softball and > weighs >10lb. Neither have any identifying marks on them. The inductor would be used in concert with one or more capacitors to smooth the full-wave rectified DC output current. How would you want to use this supply? Variable transformers are auto-transformers that generally deliver 0-100% or perhaps 135% of input voltage depending on how they are wired. The have output wires in common with the input wires. In other words they are not isolated from the AC line . . . so there are potential shock hazards to consider when using these as the sole controlling device for variable voltage. Further, unless you need to do testing at voltages above 14 or 28 volts, you would not be able to use much of the transformer's dynamic range. You would probably want to use the variable transformer to drive a 120 to 12 or 24 volt transformer. This will make better use of the variable transformer's utility and possibly get you more current capability too. Getting smooth DC is another problem. You can probably use the inductor you have and add some capacitors . . . but you're going to find that the output voltage is very poorly regulated with respect to changing loads. Suggest you consider an electronically regulated bench power supply like: Emacs! Devices like this will give you stable, current limited, smooth and very adjustable output. This one is $75 off of ebay. You might be able to sell your venerable components and cover much of the cost a supply like this. I have 5 such supplies here in shop ranging in output from 200 Ma to 50 amps. They're invaluable tools when they perform well . . . I'm pretty sure that after you spend the time hammering a supply together using the parts you have, you'll be disappointed in the performance. I have one variable transformer controlled supply. It's for providing low current, 0-500 volts dc for some vacuum tube work I was doing years ago. Haven't used it in years but I'll be showing it (and the vacuum tubes) to my grandsons. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:11 AM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OT: Old electronics info. Bob, I think you correct in identifying the rectifier. The Voltrol is about 4x4x8. It has 2 ranges covering 0-140 V. Weighs about 20 lb. It was originally set up with 2 50V caps and the inductor. I have it breadboarded with a bridge rectifier and cap/resistor filter. I have some projects which require 50-90 V DC and 10-15 amps. I don't think the Voltrol will pass more than about 5 amps based on the size of the wire on the windings. But I'd rather know than guess. How critical is the matching of the inductor with a pair of caps to use as filter, similar to the one that was originally used? Of course I would use caps with high enough voltage ratings. I'm willing to deal with the poor filtering to get the utility for little $. Might even consider building a regulating circuit at a later time. I have a couple of Heathkit regulated power supplies for most of the electronic bench work. One other question. I have a couple of Simpson amp meters, the one's that are about 3" in diameter. One ac and one dc. Are those designed to be wired in series with the load, or do they need a shunt of some sort? Unfortunately I didn't pay close attention when I salvaged these. I regret having to take time on the list, but I've spent hours on the net without any success. Thanks for taking time to share your knowledge. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 03/06/2012 10:38 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > At 09:23 PM 3/5/2012, you wrote: >> >> Greetings, >> >> I have an Acme Voltrol type T-2-1404 variable transformer I'm using to >> set up a power supply for my bench. Can anyone tell me where I can get >> the max Amps or VA rating for it? > > What are the physical dimensions of this device? > > >> I also have a big red rectifier that is about a 6" cube of fins > > > Sounds like a selenium rectifier . . . > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selenium_rectifier > > > Certainly something you'd want to replace with > a silicon bridge rectifier. > >> and an inductor that is the size of a softball and weighs >10lb. >> Neither have any identifying marks on them. > > The inductor would be used in concert with one or more > capacitors to smooth the full-wave rectified DC output > current. > > How would you want to use this supply? Variable transformers > are auto-transformers that generally deliver 0-100% or perhaps > 135% of input voltage depending on how they are wired. The > have output wires in common with the input wires. In other words > they are not isolated from the AC line . . . so there are potential > shock hazards to consider when using these as the sole controlling > device for variable voltage. Further, unless you need to do testing > at voltages above 14 or 28 volts, you would not be able to use > much of the transformer's dynamic range. > > You would probably want to use the variable transformer to > drive a 120 to 12 or 24 volt transformer. This will make > better use of the variable transformer's utility and > possibly get you more current capability too. > > Getting smooth DC is another problem. You can probably > use the inductor you have and add some capacitors . . . > but you're going to find that the output voltage is > very poorly regulated with respect to changing loads. > > Suggest you consider an electronically regulated > bench power supply like: > > Emacs! > > Devices like this will give you stable, current limited, > smooth and very adjustable output. This one is $75 off > of ebay. You might be able to sell your venerable > components and cover much of the cost a supply like this. > > I have 5 such supplies here in shop ranging in output > from 200 Ma to 50 amps. They're invaluable tools when > they perform well . . . I'm pretty sure that after you > spend the time hammering a supply together using the > parts you have, you'll be disappointed in the performance. > > I have one variable transformer controlled supply. It's > for providing low current, 0-500 volts dc for some vacuum > tube work I was doing years ago. Haven't used it in years > but I'll be showing it (and the vacuum tubes) to my grandsons. > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:59:52 AM PST US From: "David Lloyd" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? Mike, Great tip for the Icom A-22..Thanks. David PS: I do not know any way to rejuvenate an aged, encapsulated NiCad 'battery' pack. If one has surgical skills and can cut the pack apart, then you can find and toss the offending cell(s). By that time, it would make more sense to toss them all and start with all fresh. Still a big job for encapsulated type batteries.... ___________________________________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Welch" Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 7:28 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? > > > Charlie, > > I also have an Icom handheld radio. Years ago, when my Icom A22 ni-cad > OEM battery pack died, I bought their > (expensive) AA battery holder (now they're half price). It comes empty, > and you simply use 10 of your rechargeable generic > AA batteries. In fact, you can use AA ni-cads, or AA NiMHs, or plain old > Duracells. It's just an empty compartment, > and you fill it up with 10 rechargeable AA batteries. > > For years I've just used the 1.2 volt NiMH's I got off of eBay. A couple > of years ago, I bought the new rechargeable > 1.5 volts models, although it worked just fine on the (10) 1.2 volt > versions. > > Here is the container for the A22. I would imagine you could get one of > these for all their handheld models, although I haven't looked. > (you didn't mention what model you have) > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/CM-167-10-AA-Cell-Battery-Case-ICOM-Air-Band-IC-A3-IC-A3E-IC-A22-IC-A22E-/160650004281 > ?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25677c8739#ht_3307wt_1063 > > > Mike Welch > > >> At 02:37 AM 3/6/2012, you wrote: >>> >>> >>> Is there anyway to rejuvenate an old NiCad battery? I have an iCOM >>> hand held radio with a rechargeable battery pack. I assume the battery >>> is a NiCad. The radio requires a 9.6v charge, but I can't get the pack >>> charged above 9.25v. At that level I can listen to the radio, but >>> cannot transmit. The charger that came with the radio puts out 10.4v >>> when hooked to the battery, but the battery voltage won't increase >>> even after a day or so of recharging. Is there any way to save this >>> battery pack? >>> >>> Charlie Brame >>> RV-6A N11CB >>> San Antonio > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:20:44 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? I've done the 'repopulate' trick in an OEM pack (different brand radio) by replacing the nicads with NiMH to get roughly the same voltage & more AH's. Still had to stuff the pack with packing material to take up the empty space in the pack. Still working fine after many months; I use the same AC charger that came with the radio. Charlie On 03/06/2012 12:57 PM, David Lloyd wrote: > > > Mike, > Great tip for the Icom A-22..Thanks. > David > PS: I do not know any way to rejuvenate an aged, encapsulated NiCad > 'battery' pack. If one has surgical skills and can cut the pack > apart, then you can find and toss the offending cell(s). By that > time, it would make more sense to toss them all and start with all > fresh. Still a big job for encapsulated type batteries.... > > ___________________________________________________________________ > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Welch" > > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 7:28 AM > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? > > >> >> >> Charlie, >> >> I also have an Icom handheld radio. Years ago, when my Icom A22 >> ni-cad OEM battery pack died, I bought their >> (expensive) AA battery holder (now they're half price). It comes >> empty, and you simply use 10 of your rechargeable generic >> AA batteries. In fact, you can use AA ni-cads, or AA NiMHs, or plain >> old Duracells. It's just an empty compartment, >> and you fill it up with 10 rechargeable AA batteries. >> >> For years I've just used the 1.2 volt NiMH's I got off of eBay. A >> couple of years ago, I bought the new rechargeable >> 1.5 volts models, although it worked just fine on the (10) 1.2 volt >> versions. >> >> Here is the container for the A22. I would imagine you could get >> one of these for all their handheld models, although I haven't looked. >> (you didn't mention what model you have) >> >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CM-167-10-AA-Cell-Battery-Case-ICOM-Air-Band-IC-A3-IC-A3E-IC-A22-IC-A22E-/160650004281 >> >> ?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25677c8739#ht_3307wt_1063 >> >> >> Mike Welch >> >> >> >>> At 02:37 AM 3/6/2012, you wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Is there anyway to rejuvenate an old NiCad battery? I have an iCOM >>>> hand held radio with a rechargeable battery pack. I assume the battery >>>> is a NiCad. The radio requires a 9.6v charge, but I can't get the pack >>>> charged above 9.25v. At that level I can listen to the radio, but >>>> cannot transmit. The charger that came with the radio puts out 10.4v >>>> when hooked to the battery, but the battery voltage won't increase >>>> even after a day or so of recharging. Is there any way to save this >>>> battery pack? >>>> >>>> Charlie Brame >>>> RV-6A N11CB >>>> San Antonio >> ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:56:43 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Just a quick note on AA and AAA rechargeable cells. The latest and greatest LSD NiMh cells are well, great! LSD is Low Self Discharge, so cells that have LSD membranes can go a long period of time without discharging. Home Depot sells Energizer cells in AA and AAA that are LSD cells. I also find in the cold they work well. I haven't tried to solder them yet, but I suspect it will not be a problem. Normally soldering I scuff with a little 100 or so sandpaper, clean with Isopropyl alcohol, put a mini drop of mild activated flux, using a 150 watt iron quickly touch, get solder to flow (this happens very quickly) and cool with a damp paper towel "right now!). To interconnect cells I use solder braid not allowing it to wick and make the braid solid. Works great. You can use a lower wattage iron, but don't mess around, flow and cool. I don't think I ever lost a battery due to damaging because of soldering. Once you solder them into a pack, just use a conmstant 1/10C style charger or a peak charger if you have one. An LM1117 or LM317 with one resistor as bob suggested a while back works fine. Charge C/10 for 14 to 16 hours. The worst batteries I ever had to solder were long ago LiIon can cells. For those I tinned with Utectic acid core solder. It was some sort of stainless that I just couldn't get to tin with all the solders and fluxes I could find. The Utectic is pretty amazing stuff. Once tinned I solder sucked off as much as I could, then tinned and sucked a few times with 63-37, then soldered the braid on. I did that pack in the early2000s, and there is no sign of corrosion or eroding on that pack as of today. Ron P. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:55 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? From: Jared Yates I'm also very impressed with the LSD cells. I soldered a pack just like usua l and they behaved just as the nicd cells always have. It's nice to be able t o pick up the rc airplane transmitter and not have to worry about whether it has been on the charger lately. I would recommend these cells especially fo r applications that involve such infrequent use. On Mar 6, 2012, at 14:54, rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: > Just a quick note on AA and AAA rechargeable cells. The latest and greates t LSD NiMh cells are well, great! LSD is Low Self Discharge, so cells that h ave LSD membranes can go a long period of time without discharging. Home Dep ot sells Energizer cells in AA and AAA that are LSD cells. I also find in th e cold they work well. I haven't tried to solder them yet, but I suspect it w ill not be a problem. Normally soldering I scuff with a little 100 or so san dpaper, clean with Isopropyl alcohol, put a mini drop of mild activated flux , using a 150 watt iron quickly touch, get solder to flow (this happens very quickly) and cool with a damp paper towel "right now!). To interconnect cel ls I use solder braid not allowing it to wick and make the braid solid. Work s great. You can use a lower wattage iron, but don't mess around, flow and c ool. I don't think I ever lost a battery due to damaging because of solderin g. > > Once you solder them into a pack, just use a conmstant 1/10C style charger or a peak charger if you have one. An LM1117 or LM317 with one resistor as b ob suggested a while back works fine. Charge C/10 for 14 to 16 hours. > > The worst batteries I ever had to solder were long ago LiIon can cells. Fo r those I tinned with Utectic acid core solder. It was some sort of stainles s that I just couldn't get to tin with all the solders and fluxes I could fi nd. The Utectic is pretty amazing stuff. Once tinned I solder sucked off as m uch as I could, then tinned and sucked a few times with 63-37, then soldered the braid on. I did that pack in the early2000s, and there is no sign of co rrosion or eroding on that pack as of today. > > Ron P. > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:51 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OT: Old electronics info. Almost forgot. If all you want to do is fire up your airplane or car's accessories on the bench, perhaps you don't even need an adjustable power supply and meters. These power supplies are http://tinyurl.com/7dqjkve Emacs! an excellent value. This 13.5 volt, 28A power supply is $40 delivered to your door. 28 amps will run a lot of stuff. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:31 PM PST US From: Jeff Page Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lamar DSX1240-1 Alternator Bob, I failed at a search for a schematic of a typical internally regulated alternator. I am trying to understand the purpose of the wire to the alternator via the 5A breaker and the "alternator switch". One possibility is that it improves regulation by sensing the voltage without the drop in the main feed wire. In this application, that seems like overkill, so probably not it. One website hinted at a way of preventing the alternator from charging until the car was running. The control could be only used to turn the alternator on, but not off. Although a contactor could be installed per Z-24, that seems like a poor way to patch the problem. I don't know if my fellow builder is up to the task of modifying the alternator. Unfortunately, he is in a different country than I, so I can't just pop over to look at it. I expect it voids the warranty to cut the regulator out. I expect the best thing is to recommend that he obtain a more suitable alternator. Jeff Page Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 > Time: 04:41:29 PM PST US > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lamar DSX1240-1 Alternator > overvoltage protection > > > At 02:28 PM 3/3/2012, you wrote: > Does anyone have additional information concerning the Lamar 40A > alternator, part number DSX1240-1 ? > > A fellow builder purchased one from his engine builder and wants to > add overvoltage protection. > > The website seems to be non-functional at the moment, so I have > attached the diagram provided in the minimal installation > instructions. If the attachment doesn't come through, you can see the > diagram here: > http://www.qenesis.com/Temp/LamarDSX1240-1.jpg > > To me, it looks like the separate connection for the field wire should > work nicely with a typical overvoltage protection circuit designed to > pop the breaker. > > > This diagram has the look, feel and smell of the > classic, internally regulated automotive alternator. > Modification for external regulation (Like the > B&C products) -OR- external OV protection > for the existing regulator (like PlanePower) > are the most practical approaches. > > Either one requires a knowledgeable disassembly > and surgery to add OV protection to the field > supply circuit. Alternatively, one can add a > b-lead contactor and ov sensing as depicted > here: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z24-Interim.pdf > > My best recommendation is to accomplish the > necessary changes to remove the existing > regulator and re-wire for external regulation > typical of the Z-figures. > > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:36 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Simple electrical System for wooden biplane VFR From: Efraim Otero Dear All: I am new here and after buying, reading and poring over Bob Nuckolls=92 boo k, I am still as ignorant as ever! (no real news there=85) I have a wood Celebrity biplane powered by a Continental O200A. Starting is done via a Skytec Lightweight starter and 12 v 18 amp battery. No alternator as it was removed because it weighed more than the plane!! I do have the gears and they seem to work with a B&C O200G which I am ordering from Aircraft Spruce. It says it puts out 14 v and 12 amps. I want to install it to charge my 12V, 18 Amp battery and provide power to a Sandia transponder and a Flightline radio in the future. For now only to power my Icom IC-A24 Nav Com handheld. Any suggestions on what I need? Wire gauge? Shielding for radios? Also, my radio receives a clackety clack noise which sounds like the engine!? Might I need to change the ignition harness?? *Ephraim Otero* ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:53 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? Having rebuilt several Ni-Cad packs I agree with you entirely. When one cell bites the bullet you can be sure the rest are not far behind. What I would suggest is to build another pack from newer NIMIH cells which have longer life and less memory effect. Get the ones with the soldering tabs already in place. All these cells do auto discharge and you will find the total power they can hold (capacity) deteriorates with age. You can reduce this deterioration by only charging your cells to 70% and allowing then to discharge only to 40%. From what I've read, a cell fully charged will lose 20% of its capacity in a year. A cell kept between 40 and 70% charge will lose only 2% of its capacity. I think Lithium Ion cells also lose capacity in similar quantities... Makes one think about all those little cells in electric cars eh? Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Lloyd Sent: March 6, 2012 3:28 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? --> Mike, Great tip for the Icom A-22..Thanks. David PS: I do not know any way to rejuvenate an aged, encapsulated NiCad 'battery' pack. If one has surgical skills and can cut the pack apart, then you can find and toss the offending cell(s). By that time, it would make more sense to toss them all and start with all fresh. Still a big job for encapsulated type batteries.... ___________________________________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Welch" Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 7:28 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? > > > Charlie, > > I also have an Icom handheld radio. Years ago, when my Icom A22 ni-cad > OEM battery pack died, I bought their > (expensive) AA battery holder (now they're half price). It comes empty, > and you simply use 10 of your rechargeable generic > AA batteries. In fact, you can use AA ni-cads, or AA NiMHs, or plain old > Duracells. It's just an empty compartment, > and you fill it up with 10 rechargeable AA batteries. > > For years I've just used the 1.2 volt NiMH's I got off of eBay. A couple > of years ago, I bought the new rechargeable > 1.5 volts models, although it worked just fine on the (10) 1.2 volt > versions. > > Here is the container for the A22. I would imagine you could get one of > these for all their handheld models, although I haven't looked. > (you didn't mention what model you have) > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/CM-167-10-AA-Cell-Battery-Case-ICOM-Air-Band-IC-A3-I C-A3E-IC-A22-IC-A22E-/160650004281 > ?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25677c8739#ht_3307wt_1063 > > > Mike Welch > > >> At 02:37 AM 3/6/2012, you wrote: >>> >>> >>> Is there anyway to rejuvenate an old NiCad battery? I have an iCOM >>> hand held radio with a rechargeable battery pack. I assume the battery >>> is a NiCad. The radio requires a 9.6v charge, but I can't get the pack >>> charged above 9.25v. At that level I can listen to the radio, but >>> cannot transmit. The charger that came with the radio puts out 10.4v >>> when hooked to the battery, but the battery voltage won't increase >>> even after a day or so of recharging. Is there any way to save this >>> battery pack? >>> >>> Charlie Brame >>> RV-6A N11CB >>> San Antonio > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:40 PM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? Question: How do you determine the percent charge on a battery pack. Is it by voltage or current or what. That's one of my pet peeves with rechargeables in everything. The batteries die from old age rather than from reaching the max number of cycles. Looking forward to hearing about this. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 03/06/2012 06:48 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > > Having rebuilt several Ni-Cad packs I agree with you entirely. When one > cell bites the bullet you can be sure the rest are not far behind. What I > would suggest is to build another pack from newer NIMIH cells which have > longer life and less memory effect. Get the ones with the soldering tabs > already in place. > > All these cells do auto discharge and you will find the total power they > can hold (capacity) deteriorates with age. You can reduce this > deterioration by only charging your cells to 70% and allowing then to > discharge only to 40%. From what I've read, a cell fully charged will lose > 20% of its capacity in a year. A cell kept between 40 and 70% charge will > lose only 2% of its capacity. I think Lithium Ion cells also lose capacity > in similar quantities... Makes one think about all those little cells in > electric cars eh? > > Noel ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:01 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? At 07:09 PM 3/6/2012, you wrote: > >Question: How do you determine the percent charge on a battery pack. >Is it by voltage or current or what. That's one of my pet peeves >with rechargeables in everything. The batteries die from old age >rather than from reaching the max number of cycles. > >Looking forward to hearing about this. Okay, but you're probably not going to like it. Some years ago I wrote an article about the economics of using house branded AA cells in my airborne hardware. http://aeroelectric.com/articles/AA_Bat_Test.pdf The thrust of the article went to in-flight reliability of my battery powered hand held GPS and Comm radios coupled with risk mitigation. One night over west TX I found it necessary to change the four AA cells out in my GPS receiver. During the fumbles with the loose cells in the bottom of the flight bag, I dropped one of the last good set of four cells on the deck. We'll you can guess how THAT went. Had to turn on the (ugh) VOR receivers and finish the trip. This event started a train of thought to deduce (1) the practicality of carrying a charger on trips - another piece of hardware - and using rechargeable batteries to be topped off before flight . . . or simply putting new cells into the device and pitching them when I got home. I'd already wrestled with the ni-cads for my flashguns and found that under less than ideal conditions, I MIGHT be good for a several dozen cycles . . . but when the flash gun craps in the middle of a shoot and only one cell out of the 4 was bad . . . the economics of hassle was rearing an ugly head. I did try to establish sets of cells that had been cap-checked in the last 10 cycles or so and tried to keep cells of similar capacity together. This also spotted cells that were crapping out. I'd pitch them when they dropped to 75% of capacity. That preventative maintenance process improved on-the-job reliability but it also took TIME that was not adding value. When cheap cells became available on eBay, I started dating the new cells when I put them in service and pitched them at 6 months. The cost of time to test them exceeded the value of the cells! Premium, highly advertised batteries in one radio (or flashgun) was worth a gallon of gas. So I began to wonder just how bad the el-cheeso brands of AA alkaline battery could be. In the article, you read how even the least expensive cells (about 22 cents apiece) offered VERY good value for contained energy. That's when I began the practice of installing a fresh set of cells to go outbound, another fresh set to come home. Fresh batteries were dropped into the flight bag with a piece of masking tape on them. I took the tape off when the battery was installed. When I got home un-tapped batteries were pressed into other service and I never found myself fiddling with batteries and battery box covers in flight. Wrestling with Ni-Cd or Ni-Mh arrays still comes with the attendant uncertainties. Just how good are these cells and how closely matched are they for capacity? So to this day, I still don't use rechargeable cells in flight hardware or mission critical devices. The AA cells are so cheap that keeping fresh ones in the electrowhizzy takes very little time, attention and/or expense. Now, the short answer to your question: You need a device tailored to the task of fully discharging a cell and reporting its contained energy. I.e. a cap-checker. If you use a lot of loose cells, this isn't too hard but if the cells in question are in a soldered up array inside a radio . . . you're flying "blind" with respect to the real reliability of the device. Cell arrays that are regularly excerised seem to do real well. My Makita and DeWalt drill batteries seem to be good for a year or more but there's a fast charger nearby with another battery of unknown quality setting in it. Rechargeable batteries are fine on the ground but I'm reluctant to fly with them as part of my failure tolerance team of electrowhizzies. http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Vacination_for_Dark_Panel_Syndrom.pdf Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.