Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:47 AM - Re: Simple electrical System for wooden biplane VFR (racerjerry)
2. 06:18 AM - Re: Re: Simple electrical System for wooden biplane VFR (Efraim Otero)
3. 07:03 AM - Re: Lamar DSX1240-1 Alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 08:18 AM - Re: Lamar DSX1240-1 Alternator (Jeff Page)
5. 08:45 AM - Fw: Re: Fw: Coolie Hat Switch (Buckley William)
6. 09:32 AM - Compare 500Amp Carbon Pile vs. 100A Battery tester (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
7. 09:56 AM - Re: Fw: Re: Fw: Coolie Hat Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 10:06 AM - Re: Compare 500Amp Carbon Pile vs. 100A Battery tester (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 12:06 PM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (Noel Loveys)
10. 01:15 PM - Re: Fw: Re: Fw: Coolie Hat Switch ()
11. 01:21 PM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (rayj)
12. 01:41 PM - Re: Fw: Re: Fw: Coolie Hat Switch (rayj)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Simple electrical System for wooden biplane VFR |
What is your spark plug part number?
Which magnetos do you have installed?
Do you presently have unshielded (automotive type) spark plug wires?
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367915#367915
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Simple electrical System for wooden biplane |
VFR
Jerry!
Thanks for your answer. I have SL 40 magnetos and an aviation ignition
harness. Spark plugs are Champion massive electrode REM40E. Curious
thing is that a few months before I didn't get that noise. I have a
whip antenna connected to the Icom with RG58 coax... Any ideas?
On 3/7/12, racerjerry <gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote:
> <gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
> What is your spark plug part number?
> Which magnetos do you have installed?
> Do you presently have unshielded (automotive type) spark plug wires?
>
> --------
> Jerry King
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367915#367915
>
>
--
Sent from my mobile device
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Lamar DSX1240-1 Alternator |
At 04:56 PM 3/6/2012, you wrote:
Bob,
I failed at a search for a schematic of a typical internally regulated
alternator.
I am trying to understand the purpose of the wire to the alternator
via the 5A breaker and the "alternator switch".
Understand. Here's an exemplar schematic for an
internally regulated alternator. To the best of
my knowledge, this theme is consistent throughout
the modern alternator industry. This image was
excerpted from the MC33092 regulator data sheet which
you can get here:
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Semiconductors/MC33092A.pdf
Emacs!
One possibility is that it improves regulation by sensing the voltage
without the drop in the main feed wire. In this application, that
seems like overkill, so probably not it.
One website hinted at a way of preventing the alternator from charging
until the car was running. The control could be only used to turn the
alternator on, but not off.
Actually . . . pretty close. In this case, current supplied
through the ignition switch and warning light are used to
to effect an on/off control of the alternator although
switching the sense lead would do that too . . . the "LOSS
OF SENSE" circuit would detect an open sense line and
effectively control the alternator.
Although a contactor could be installed per Z-24, that seems like a
poor way to patch the problem.
I'm certainly amenable to a better idea. This problem
has been wrestled with by many folks over the years.
I don't know if my fellow builder is up to the task of modifying the
alternator. Unfortunately, he is in a different country than I, so I
can't just pop over to look at it. I expect it voids the warranty to
cut the regulator out. I expect the best thing is to recommend that
he obtain a more suitable alternator.
Yup. But as you can see in the exemplar schematic, there
are failure modes that can and have produced uncontrollable
runaways. The legacy recipe for success has been to gain
direct access to field excitation . . . which requires
modifications not unlike those offered by B&C and PlanePower.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Lamar DSX1240-1 Alternator |
> Understand. Here's an exemplar schematic for an internally regulated
> alternator. To the best of my knowledge, this theme is consistent
> throughout the modern alternator industry. This image was excerpted
> from the MC33092 regulator data sheet which you can get here:
> http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Semiconductors/MC33092A.pdf
Thanks, Bob. This is what I needed to read to understand the issue.
I guess this makes sense to the auto industry.
The IC does try to handle under and overvoltage conditions, but that
is like asking the fox to guard the henhouse.
Modifying this circuit would be difficult. Much easier to delete the
regulator in favor of an external one. Even easier still is selling
the existing alternator and purchasing a more suitable one, which is
what he has decided to do.
Thanks again for more education !
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Coolie Hat Switch |
Bob (et al),
Do you have a product recommendation for the solid state relays (14V system)?
Thanks,
William B.
--- On Mon, 3/5/12, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: Re: Fw: AeroElectric-List: Coolie Hat Switch
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, March 5, 2012, 8:05 PM
> --> AeroElectric-List message
> posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 03:42 PM 3/5/2012, you wrote:
> William <hoverandwire@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Take a look at these from Digikey ($22.50 each)
> >
> > http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/500-526/679-2289-ND/2063280
>
> Cool find Bill . . . these are
> electrically 'delicate'
> switches. Rated 1 to 50 mA. They should be
> used to control
> a solid-state buffered relay deck but they
> look pretty
> slick.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Compare 500Amp Carbon Pile vs. 100A Battery tester |
Bob,
Would you give us a short comparison of the Harbor Freight 500 A Carbon
Pile
vs. 100A Battery Tester. I realize that the Carbon Pile has more
features,
but are they valuable and worth the price difference?
Thanks for your valued advise,
Roger
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Coolie Hat Switch |
At 10:44 AM 3/7/2012, you wrote:
><hoverandwire@yahoo.com>
>
>Bob (et al),
>Do you have a product recommendation for the solid state relays (14V system)?
To buffer the contacts on the subject coolie hat switch?
Not sure this takes a component relay . . . a few Radio
Shack transistors and some resistors will do the job.
I could publish a drawing to that design goal.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Compare 500Amp Carbon Pile vs. 100A Battery tester |
At 11:30 AM 3/7/2012, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>Would you give us a short comparison of the Harbor Freight 500 A
>Carbon Pile vs. 100A Battery Tester. I realize that the Carbon Pile
>has more features, but are they valuable and worth the price difference?
>
>Thanks for your valued advise,
BOTH have good value. The feature of most value in the
carbon pile tester
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery_Testers/HF_Carbon_Pile_Load.jpg
. . . is the ability to do quantified testing in
that is related directly to the battery's ability
to crank an engine. You increase the load to depress
battery voltage to the bottom of the green arc associated
with the battery's present temperature. Hold for 15
seconds (timer built into the tester). At the end of
15 seconds, observe current delivered. This is a
quantitative benchmark that you can use to judge
the battery's condition months from now.
The fixed resistor load . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery_Testers/HF_Resistor_Load.jpg
delivers similar data . . . it's in the same church
but a different pew. I recommend the extra bux. I own
two carbon pile testers. I've got a $high$ example in
my shop and an HF tester in my son's shop in Wichita.
See http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery_Testers/ for pictures
of the innards
Bob . . .
Message 9
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Subject: | Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? |
The only way I've been able to determine if a battery is reaching its end of
life is to use it. As a professional photographer I've had lots of
experience with NiCads going dead at the wrong time (Murphy's law) so I used
to always carry a couple of sets of alkalines for backup. A couple of
things I found when batteries got to the point the just wouldn't hold a
charge I would completely discharge them... keep a short across the
terminals for 24 hr. Then hit them with a current of close to an amp with a
voltage around 3V for about ten seconds... then recharge them normally. It
seemed to rejuvenate somewhat and remove memory effect. The only batteries
I tried this on were pretty well discharged at the time of applying the
short.
In recent years I've gone to Lithium cells. I can't recharge them, the
chance of leakage and fire is too great, but they seem to last forever and a
second backup set is all I'll ever need. Shelf life of the lithium
batteries is in the order of several years and just about everything I've
tried them in seems to like them whether it's a high current application or
a very low current application. I have found that lithium batteries that
have used too much power to be used in a photo flash or digital camera will
still last a year or more in remote controls.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rayj
Sent: March 6, 2012 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery?
Question: How do you determine the percent charge on a battery pack. Is it
by voltage or current or what. That's one of my pet peeves with
rechargeables in everything. The batteries die from old age rather than
from reaching the max number of cycles.
Looking forward to hearing about this.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have
to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/06/2012 06:48 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Noel
> --> Loveys"<noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
> Having rebuilt several Ni-Cad packs I agree with you entirely. When
> one cell bites the bullet you can be sure the rest are not far behind.
> What I would suggest is to build another pack from newer NIMIH cells
> which have longer life and less memory effect. Get the ones with the
> soldering tabs already in place.
>
> All these cells do auto discharge and you will find the total power
> they can hold (capacity) deteriorates with age. You can reduce this
> deterioration by only charging your cells to 70% and allowing then to
> discharge only to 40%. From what I've read, a cell fully charged will
> lose 20% of its capacity in a year. A cell kept between 40 and 70%
> charge will lose only 2% of its capacity. I think Lithium Ion cells
> also lose capacity in similar quantities... Makes one think about all
> those little cells in electric cars eh?
>
> Noel
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Coolie Hat Switch |
That would be appreciated Bob!
---- "Robert L. Nuckolls wrote:
============
At 10:44 AM 3/7/2012, you wrote:
><hoverandwire@yahoo.com>
>
>Bob (et al),
>Do you have a product recommendation for the solid state relays (14V system)?
To buffer the contacts on the subject coolie hat switch?
Not sure this takes a component relay . . . a few Radio
Shack transistors and some resistors will do the job.
I could publish a drawing to that design goal.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? |
Greetings Noel,
In an earlier post you mentioned that the life of rechargeable batteries
could be extended by operating them in a 40% to 70% range. My question
is how is the percent of charge state quantified?
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/07/2012 02:04 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys"<noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
> The only way I've been able to determine if a battery is reaching its end of
> life is to use it. As a professional photographer I've had lots of
> experience with NiCads going dead at the wrong time (Murphy's law) so I used
> to always carry a couple of sets of alkalines for backup. A couple of
> things I found when batteries got to the point the just wouldn't hold a
> charge I would completely discharge them... keep a short across the
> terminals for 24 hr. Then hit them with a current of close to an amp with a
> voltage around 3V for about ten seconds... then recharge them normally. It
> seemed to rejuvenate somewhat and remove memory effect. The only batteries
> I tried this on were pretty well discharged at the time of applying the
> short.
>
> In recent years I've gone to Lithium cells. I can't recharge them, the
> chance of leakage and fire is too great, but they seem to last forever and a
> second backup set is all I'll ever need. Shelf life of the lithium
> batteries is in the order of several years and just about everything I've
> tried them in seems to like them whether it's a high current application or
> a very low current application. I have found that lithium batteries that
> have used too much power to be used in a photo flash or digital camera will
> still last a year or more in remote controls.
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rayj
> Sent: March 6, 2012 9:40 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery?
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rayj<raymondj@frontiernet.net>
>
> Question: How do you determine the percent charge on a battery pack. Is it
> by voltage or current or what. That's one of my pet peeves with
> rechargeables in everything. The batteries die from old age rather than
> from reaching the max number of cycles.
>
> Looking forward to hearing about this.
>
>
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN
>
> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have
> to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>
> On 03/06/2012 06:48 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Noel
>> --> Loveys"<noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>>
>> Having rebuilt several Ni-Cad packs I agree with you entirely. When
>> one cell bites the bullet you can be sure the rest are not far behind.
>> What I would suggest is to build another pack from newer NIMIH cells
>> which have longer life and less memory effect. Get the ones with the
>> soldering tabs already in place.
>>
>> All these cells do auto discharge and you will find the total power
>> they can hold (capacity) deteriorates with age. You can reduce this
>> deterioration by only charging your cells to 70% and allowing then to
>> discharge only to 40%. From what I've read, a cell fully charged will
>> lose 20% of its capacity in a year. A cell kept between 40 and 70%
>> charge will lose only 2% of its capacity. I think Lithium Ion cells
>> also lose capacity in similar quantities... Makes one think about all
>> those little cells in electric cars eh?
>>
>> Noel
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Coolie Hat Switch |
I'll second that. I have some "delicate" switches that would benefit.
Thanks,
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/07/2012 03:13 PM, sam.marlow@roadrunner.com wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:<sam.marlow@roadrunner.com>
>
> That would be appreciated Bob!
>
> ---- "Robert L. Nuckolls wrote:
>
> ============
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 10:44 AM 3/7/2012, you wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Buckley William
>> <hoverandwire@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Bob (et al),
>> Do you have a product recommendation for the solid state relays (14V system)?
>
> To buffer the contacts on the subject coolie hat switch?
> Not sure this takes a component relay . . . a few Radio
> Shack transistors and some resistors will do the job.
> I could publish a drawing to that design goal.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
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