---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/07/12: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:47 AM - Re: Simple electrical System for wooden biplane VFR (racerjerry) 2. 06:18 AM - Re: Re: Simple electrical System for wooden biplane VFR (Efraim Otero) 3. 07:03 AM - Re: Lamar DSX1240-1 Alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 08:18 AM - Re: Lamar DSX1240-1 Alternator (Jeff Page) 5. 08:45 AM - Fw: Re: Fw: Coolie Hat Switch (Buckley William) 6. 09:32 AM - Compare 500Amp Carbon Pile vs. 100A Battery tester (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS) 7. 09:56 AM - Re: Fw: Re: Fw: Coolie Hat Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 10:06 AM - Re: Compare 500Amp Carbon Pile vs. 100A Battery tester (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 12:06 PM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (Noel Loveys) 10. 01:15 PM - Re: Fw: Re: Fw: Coolie Hat Switch () 11. 01:21 PM - Re: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? (rayj) 12. 01:41 PM - Re: Fw: Re: Fw: Coolie Hat Switch (rayj) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:45 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Simple electrical System for wooden biplane VFR From: "racerjerry" What is your spark plug part number? Which magnetos do you have installed? Do you presently have unshielded (automotive type) spark plug wires? -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367915#367915 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Simple electrical System for wooden biplane VFR From: Efraim Otero Jerry! Thanks for your answer. I have SL 40 magnetos and an aviation ignition harness. Spark plugs are Champion massive electrode REM40E. Curious thing is that a few months before I didn't get that noise. I have a whip antenna connected to the Icom with RG58 coax... Any ideas? On 3/7/12, racerjerry wrote: > > > What is your spark plug part number? > Which magnetos do you have installed? > Do you presently have unshielded (automotive type) spark plug wires? > > -------- > Jerry King > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367915#367915 > > -- Sent from my mobile device ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:37 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lamar DSX1240-1 Alternator At 04:56 PM 3/6/2012, you wrote: Bob, I failed at a search for a schematic of a typical internally regulated alternator. I am trying to understand the purpose of the wire to the alternator via the 5A breaker and the "alternator switch". Understand. Here's an exemplar schematic for an internally regulated alternator. To the best of my knowledge, this theme is consistent throughout the modern alternator industry. This image was excerpted from the MC33092 regulator data sheet which you can get here: http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Semiconductors/MC33092A.pdf Emacs! One possibility is that it improves regulation by sensing the voltage without the drop in the main feed wire. In this application, that seems like overkill, so probably not it. One website hinted at a way of preventing the alternator from charging until the car was running. The control could be only used to turn the alternator on, but not off. Actually . . . pretty close. In this case, current supplied through the ignition switch and warning light are used to to effect an on/off control of the alternator although switching the sense lead would do that too . . . the "LOSS OF SENSE" circuit would detect an open sense line and effectively control the alternator. Although a contactor could be installed per Z-24, that seems like a poor way to patch the problem. I'm certainly amenable to a better idea. This problem has been wrestled with by many folks over the years. I don't know if my fellow builder is up to the task of modifying the alternator. Unfortunately, he is in a different country than I, so I can't just pop over to look at it. I expect it voids the warranty to cut the regulator out. I expect the best thing is to recommend that he obtain a more suitable alternator. Yup. But as you can see in the exemplar schematic, there are failure modes that can and have produced uncontrollable runaways. The legacy recipe for success has been to gain direct access to field excitation . . . which requires modifications not unlike those offered by B&C and PlanePower. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:46 AM PST US From: Jeff Page Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Lamar DSX1240-1 Alternator > Understand. Here's an exemplar schematic for an internally regulated > alternator. To the best of my knowledge, this theme is consistent > throughout the modern alternator industry. This image was excerpted > from the MC33092 regulator data sheet which you can get here: > http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Semiconductors/MC33092A.pdf Thanks, Bob. This is what I needed to read to understand the issue. I guess this makes sense to the auto industry. The IC does try to handle under and overvoltage conditions, but that is like asking the fox to guard the henhouse. Modifying this circuit would be difficult. Much easier to delete the regulator in favor of an external one. Even easier still is selling the existing alternator and purchasing a more suitable one, which is what he has decided to do. Thanks again for more education ! Jeff Page Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:09 AM PST US From: Buckley William Subject: Fw: Re: Fw: AeroElectric-List: Coolie Hat Switch Bob (et al), Do you have a product recommendation for the solid state relays (14V system)? Thanks, William B. --- On Mon, 3/5/12, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III > Subject: Re: Fw: AeroElectric-List: Coolie Hat Switch > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, March 5, 2012, 8:05 PM > --> AeroElectric-List message > posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > At 03:42 PM 3/5/2012, you wrote: > William > > > > Take a look at these from Digikey ($22.50 each) > > > > http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/500-526/679-2289-ND/2063280 > > Cool find Bill . . . these are > electrically 'delicate' > switches. Rated 1 to 50 mA. They should be > used to control > a solid-state buffered relay deck but they > look pretty > slick. > > > Bob . . . > > AeroElectric-List Email Forum - > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:32:33 AM PST US From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Compare 500Amp Carbon Pile vs. 100A Battery tester Bob, Would you give us a short comparison of the Harbor Freight 500 A Carbon Pile vs. 100A Battery Tester. I realize that the Carbon Pile has more features, but are they valuable and worth the price difference? Thanks for your valued advise, Roger ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:34 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Fw: AeroElectric-List: Coolie Hat Switch At 10:44 AM 3/7/2012, you wrote: > > >Bob (et al), >Do you have a product recommendation for the solid state relays (14V system)? To buffer the contacts on the subject coolie hat switch? Not sure this takes a component relay . . . a few Radio Shack transistors and some resistors will do the job. I could publish a drawing to that design goal. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:06:53 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Compare 500Amp Carbon Pile vs. 100A Battery tester At 11:30 AM 3/7/2012, you wrote: >Bob, > >Would you give us a short comparison of the Harbor Freight 500 A >Carbon Pile vs. 100A Battery Tester. I realize that the Carbon Pile >has more features, but are they valuable and worth the price difference? > >Thanks for your valued advise, BOTH have good value. The feature of most value in the carbon pile tester http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery_Testers/HF_Carbon_Pile_Load.jpg . . . is the ability to do quantified testing in that is related directly to the battery's ability to crank an engine. You increase the load to depress battery voltage to the bottom of the green arc associated with the battery's present temperature. Hold for 15 seconds (timer built into the tester). At the end of 15 seconds, observe current delivered. This is a quantitative benchmark that you can use to judge the battery's condition months from now. The fixed resistor load . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery_Testers/HF_Resistor_Load.jpg delivers similar data . . . it's in the same church but a different pew. I recommend the extra bux. I own two carbon pile testers. I've got a $high$ example in my shop and an HF tester in my son's shop in Wichita. See http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery_Testers/ for pictures of the innards Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:32 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? The only way I've been able to determine if a battery is reaching its end of life is to use it. As a professional photographer I've had lots of experience with NiCads going dead at the wrong time (Murphy's law) so I used to always carry a couple of sets of alkalines for backup. A couple of things I found when batteries got to the point the just wouldn't hold a charge I would completely discharge them... keep a short across the terminals for 24 hr. Then hit them with a current of close to an amp with a voltage around 3V for about ten seconds... then recharge them normally. It seemed to rejuvenate somewhat and remove memory effect. The only batteries I tried this on were pretty well discharged at the time of applying the short. In recent years I've gone to Lithium cells. I can't recharge them, the chance of leakage and fire is too great, but they seem to last forever and a second backup set is all I'll ever need. Shelf life of the lithium batteries is in the order of several years and just about everything I've tried them in seems to like them whether it's a high current application or a very low current application. I have found that lithium batteries that have used too much power to be used in a photo flash or digital camera will still last a year or more in remote controls. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rayj Sent: March 6, 2012 9:40 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? Question: How do you determine the percent charge on a battery pack. Is it by voltage or current or what. That's one of my pet peeves with rechargeables in everything. The batteries die from old age rather than from reaching the max number of cycles. Looking forward to hearing about this. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 03/06/2012 06:48 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Noel > --> Loveys" > > Having rebuilt several Ni-Cad packs I agree with you entirely. When > one cell bites the bullet you can be sure the rest are not far behind. > What I would suggest is to build another pack from newer NIMIH cells > which have longer life and less memory effect. Get the ones with the > soldering tabs already in place. > > All these cells do auto discharge and you will find the total power > they can hold (capacity) deteriorates with age. You can reduce this > deterioration by only charging your cells to 70% and allowing then to > discharge only to 40%. From what I've read, a cell fully charged will > lose 20% of its capacity in a year. A cell kept between 40 and 70% > charge will lose only 2% of its capacity. I think Lithium Ion cells > also lose capacity in similar quantities... Makes one think about all > those little cells in electric cars eh? > > Noel ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:15:17 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Fw: AeroElectric-List: Coolie Hat Switch That would be appreciated Bob! ---- "Robert L. Nuckolls wrote: ============ At 10:44 AM 3/7/2012, you wrote: > > >Bob (et al), >Do you have a product recommendation for the solid state relays (14V system)? To buffer the contacts on the subject coolie hat switch? Not sure this takes a component relay . . . a few Radio Shack transistors and some resistors will do the job. I could publish a drawing to that design goal. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:13 PM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? Greetings Noel, In an earlier post you mentioned that the life of rechargeable batteries could be extended by operating them in a 40% to 70% range. My question is how is the percent of charge state quantified? Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 03/07/2012 02:04 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > > The only way I've been able to determine if a battery is reaching its end of > life is to use it. As a professional photographer I've had lots of > experience with NiCads going dead at the wrong time (Murphy's law) so I used > to always carry a couple of sets of alkalines for backup. A couple of > things I found when batteries got to the point the just wouldn't hold a > charge I would completely discharge them... keep a short across the > terminals for 24 hr. Then hit them with a current of close to an amp with a > voltage around 3V for about ten seconds... then recharge them normally. It > seemed to rejuvenate somewhat and remove memory effect. The only batteries > I tried this on were pretty well discharged at the time of applying the > short. > > In recent years I've gone to Lithium cells. I can't recharge them, the > chance of leakage and fire is too great, but they seem to last forever and a > second backup set is all I'll ever need. Shelf life of the lithium > batteries is in the order of several years and just about everything I've > tried them in seems to like them whether it's a high current application or > a very low current application. I have found that lithium batteries that > have used too much power to be used in a photo flash or digital camera will > still last a year or more in remote controls. > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rayj > Sent: March 6, 2012 9:40 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re-juvinate a NiCad Battery? > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rayj > > Question: How do you determine the percent charge on a battery pack. Is it > by voltage or current or what. That's one of my pet peeves with > rechargeables in everything. The batteries die from old age rather than > from reaching the max number of cycles. > > Looking forward to hearing about this. > > > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN > > "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have > to lose is my point of view." - John Prine > > On 03/06/2012 06:48 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Noel >> --> Loveys" >> >> Having rebuilt several Ni-Cad packs I agree with you entirely. When >> one cell bites the bullet you can be sure the rest are not far behind. >> What I would suggest is to build another pack from newer NIMIH cells >> which have longer life and less memory effect. Get the ones with the >> soldering tabs already in place. >> >> All these cells do auto discharge and you will find the total power >> they can hold (capacity) deteriorates with age. You can reduce this >> deterioration by only charging your cells to 70% and allowing then to >> discharge only to 40%. From what I've read, a cell fully charged will >> lose 20% of its capacity in a year. A cell kept between 40 and 70% >> charge will lose only 2% of its capacity. I think Lithium Ion cells >> also lose capacity in similar quantities... Makes one think about all >> those little cells in electric cars eh? >> >> Noel > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:55 PM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Fw: AeroElectric-List: Coolie Hat Switch I'll second that. I have some "delicate" switches that would benefit. Thanks, Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 03/07/2012 03:13 PM, sam.marlow@roadrunner.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > > That would be appreciated Bob! > > ---- "Robert L. Nuckolls wrote: > > ============ > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > At 10:44 AM 3/7/2012, you wrote: >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Buckley William >> >> >> Bob (et al), >> Do you have a product recommendation for the solid state relays (14V system)? > > To buffer the contacts on the subject coolie hat switch? > Not sure this takes a component relay . . . a few Radio > Shack transistors and some resistors will do the job. > I could publish a drawing to that design goal. > > > Bob . . . > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.