Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:28 AM - Re: Joining 'coax' cable (JOHN TIPTON)
2. 05:39 AM - Joining 'coax' cable ()
3. 12:09 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru 3300 Over Voltage (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 12:23 PM - Re: Coolie Hat Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 02:23 PM - Re: Jabiru 3300 Over Voltage (Wingrider)
6. 04:43 PM - Re: Jabiru 3300 Over Voltage (user9253)
7. 04:58 PM - Re: Coolie Hat Switch (The Kuffels)
8. 05:15 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru 3300 Over Voltage (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 05:24 PM - Re: Coolie Hat Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 05:37 PM - Re: Jabiru 3300 Over Voltage (Wingrider)
11. 07:39 PM - Re: Jabiru 3300 Over Voltage (user9253)
12. 08:19 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru 3300 Over Voltage (Noel Loveys)
13. 08:24 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru 3300 Over Voltage (Noel Loveys)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Joining 'coax' cable |
I didn't make it clear, but 'Bob' picked it up that the lead is
a three wire shielded cable that I was refering to - thank you Bob
Message 2
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| Subject: | Joining 'coax' cable |
3/13/2012
Hello John, Unless you are going to be doing frequent wing removal and
reinstallation in your airplane (highly unlikely for an RV 9) the best
solution (where the run of any wire inside the fuselage permits) is to have
the wing to fuselage wires run continuously.
Here is how you do it:
1) Leave a significant loop of the wire coiled in the vicinity of the wing
root.
2) Mount the wing on the fuselage.
3) Thread the wire to the intended destination inside the fuselage and
install the appropriate device matching connector on the wire end.
4) Connect to the device and fly the plane.
5) Much later (years?) if it is necessary to remove the wings, disconnect
the wire wire from the device, cut the connector off the end of the wire,
pull the wire back out of the fuselage, and remove the wings.
6) When it is time to reinstall the wings repeat steps 3 and 4 above. This
process can be repeated many times before you run out of wire in the loop
created initially.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
PS: On calling shielded cable coax: Any time you call two different things
by the same name or the same thing by two different names sooner of later in
some communication process that situation will jump up and bite you.
================================================================
Time: 07:40:49 AM PST US
From: JOHN TIPTON <jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Joining 'coax' cable
Hi Guys (Bob)=0A-=0AI will be completing the wiring to out RV9a prior to
moving the wings, and 'fuse' to the hanger, while I'm Ok with the wires fro
m the landing light, nav light etc to be conntected inside the fuse when th
e wings are mounted with connectors, what do I-do about about the 'coax'
for the strobe light - in an ideal world I guess one continous lead, but ca
n I join two lengths of 'coax' together, what connector do I-use, so as n
ot to compromise the integrity of the 'coax' sheathing=0A-=0ABest regards
=0A-=0AJohn
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300 Over Voltage |
At 08:37 PM 3/12/2012, you wrote:
>
>Bob my wiring diagram is attached to my message about 3 above this
>one. I've attached a chart of of two flights, one about a year ago
>where you can see a pretty steady 14 volts and a more recent flight
>where you see the very fast spikes to 15 plus volts. Other
>charts/datasets show spikes up to 16 volts and a more drastic
>swings. Hope this helps.
It's hard to imagine a failure that produces
this sort of behavior from a regulator.
Did you say that you've tried a new rectifier/
regulator?
If so, we're down to wiring. What does your ground
system look like. What kind of airplane are we
talking about?
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Coolie Hat Switch |
Re: on limit timer
I've been trying to figure out a way to add on-limit timer to the
previous iteration of the circuit but with a minimum of added parts.
Here's one pass at it:
There were three, 'left over' gates in the CD4093 devices which
I've combined with a capacitor, transistor, resistor and diode
to sense the presence of any input command. This starts a timer
set with the RC time constant of the resistor and capacitor
which will drive the gate of the transistor HI after n-seconds.
The transistor pulls down on the power supply's adjust node and
reduces voltage to the trim system to 1.25 volts. If the
motor will definitely not run at any speed under any load at
this voltage, then this shutdown philosophy would work.
Anybody got a Ray-Allen actuator laying around? Hook an
AA cell to the white leads and tell us what you see. The
next best alternative takes 1 more gate and a few more
jelly-bean parts . . . but it goes in series with the command
leads to the h-bridge.
Emacs!
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300 Over Voltage |
Yes I have replaced the regulator with no discernible change. This is a Zenith
601HDS with a Corvair engine, John Deere alternator and John Deere voltage regulator.
All the grounds come to a common 24 position ground bus on the rear of the panel
which is connected to the engine block and then from the same bolt on the engine
to the negative side of the battery. This has not changed from day one. Nothing
has that I can think of, same EFIS, lights, all electrical components,
etc.
--------
Rich Whittington
Tullahoma, TN
Zenith 601HDS
Corvair 3 Liter 120HP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=368404#368404
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300 Over Voltage |
Rich,
Verify that the regulator is wired correctly. This website http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/John-Deere-Tractor-and-Mower-Voltage-Regulator-Rectifier
has the light and ignition terminals switched. If the regulator is wired incorrectly,
that would explain the circuit breaker getting warm to the touch.
Having voltage measurements will help others troubleshoot, especially the voltage
between the main bus and the regulator ignition (sense) terminal.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=368418#368418
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Coolie Hat Switch |
Bob,
<< voltage to the trim system to 1.25 volts. If the
motor will definitely not run at any speed under any load at
this voltage, then this shutdown philosophy would work.
Anybody got a Ray-Allen actuator laying around? .. tell us what you see
>>
At no load my Ray Allen motor starts around 3+ volts and then continues
to run until the voltage is reduced to 2.5 volts.
Hope this helps. The time constant I used on my controller is 1.5 sec.
The 3 sec supplied on some commercial controllers is too long. At 12
volts the lock to lock time for RAC motors is about 6 seconds. So 3 sec
can give you full travel from mid-location.
Tom Kuffel
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300 Over Voltage |
At 06:42 PM 3/13/2012, you wrote:
>
>Rich,
>Verify that the regulator is wired correctly. This website
>http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/John-Deere-Tractor-and-Mower-Voltage-Regulator-Rectifier
>has the light and ignition terminals switched. If the regulator is
>wired incorrectly, that would explain the circuit breaker getting
>warm to the touch.
>Having voltage measurements will help others troubleshoot,
>especially the voltage between the main bus and the regulator
>ignition (sense) terminal.
Joe,
All the references I could find, including the link
cited above, gives this order and labeling for
the terminals on a John Deere A101406 rectifier/
regulator. The circuit breaker carries relay coil
current which is independent of any characteristics
of the alternator.
Emacs!
Have you seen any data source that argues with
what's shown above?
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Coolie Hat Switch |
>
>At no load my Ray Allen motor starts around 3+ volts and then
>continues to run until the voltage is reduced to 2.5 volts.
Good data sir. Thanks!
>
>Hope this helps. The time constant I used on my controller is 1.5
>sec. The 3 sec supplied on some commercial controllers is too
>long. At 12 volts the lock to lock time for RAC motors is about 6
>seconds. So 3 sec can give you full travel from mid-location.
Yeah . . . I would hope that most users
find that something like 10-15 seconds
for full stroke at cruise trim suggests
a 2 second run-time limit for keeping a runaway
bounded. It's probably not so critical during
approach to landing where the trim needs to
run perhaps twice as fast. On a Learjet the
speed ratio between cruise and approach is
1:4.
If the speeds are set for useful/comfortable
rates in both modes of flight, then
a stuck command isn't going to produce a
startling event. If the mechanical limits and
trim control authorities are well crafted, there's
no risk for having a trim system stuck in a stop.
I think I'm going to leave the run-time limit
feature off.
Thanks for the feedback.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300 Over Voltage |
Joe the original regulator was a MIA881279, the replacement I used is the older
style AM101406 as shown in your link and yes they wire differently (see attachment).
Also the drawing didn't represent the actual wire positions but was drawn
for clarity.
The L terminal is going to the light which does illuminate when the relay opens.
The Ign terminal is going straight to the battery + terminal right now to eliminate
any potential issues in that circuit. Alternator is across the AC terminals
with the relay in one leg.
--------
Rich Whittington
Tullahoma, TN
Zenith 601HDS
Corvair 3 Liter 120HP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=368426#368426
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/alt_regulator_mia881279_885.jpg
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300 Over Voltage |
> Have you seen any data source that argues with what's shown above?
No, I was going by Rich's schematic that shows the lamp connected to the outside
terminal of the voltage regulator. But now Rich has explained that his drawing
is a schematic and not a wiring diagram. He is confident that the voltage
regulator is wired correctly. I believe him.
I see 3 possible causes for the high voltage:
1. There is a wiring error.
2. There is an intermittent high resistance connection between the main bus and
the ignition terminal of the regulator, or between regulator ground and aircraft
ground.
3. The voltage regulator is bad.
_
Due to the fact that the 5amp circuit breaker gets warm, I suspect the voltage
regulator is bad. It seems to me that the voltage between the regulator ground
terminal and the regulator voltage-sense terminal should never go above the
set point (14.2). If it does, then the regulator is not doing its job, regardless
of any loose connections elsewhere.
The voltage is still too high, even with the voltage-sense wire connected directly
to the battery. That eliminates the circuit breaker and the master switch
as potential problems.
Bob, please correct me if my reasoning is faulty. Just do not tell my wife that
I made a mistake. :D
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=368433#368433
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300 Over Voltage |
Something in the order of 90% of problems with power in aircraft stem from
dirty grounds. (Personal experience) Many regulators/rectifiers use the back
of the regulator box for ground. If you get a little corrosion there,
emphasis on the word "little", it will trick the regulator into seeing less
voltage on the buss than is actually there. So the best place to start is
to take off all connections, one at a time, and clean them up to shiny.
(both the ring connectors and the posts, nuts and washers too) Don't forget
to dismount the regulator and clean both the back of the regulator and the
place where it is mounted.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wingrider
Sent: March 13, 2012 6:52 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Jabiru 3300 Over Voltage
Yes I have replaced the regulator with no discernible change. This is a
Zenith 601HDS with a Corvair engine, John Deere alternator and John Deere
voltage regulator.
All the grounds come to a common 24 position ground bus on the rear of the
panel which is connected to the engine block and then from the same bolt on
the engine to the negative side of the battery. This has not changed from
day one. Nothing has that I can think of, same EFIS, lights, all electrical
components, etc.
--------
Rich Whittington
Tullahoma, TN
Zenith 601HDS
Corvair 3 Liter 120HP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=368404#368404
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300 Over Voltage |
Generally when a voltage regulator blows it turns off the field coils
thereby turning off the alternator. Intermittent charging can be caused by
worn brushes in the alternator and high voltage is almost always caused by a
poor ground on the regulator. Since the wiring was working the best
possibility is a small bit of corrosion on the regulator case.
Noel
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of user9253
Sent: March 14, 2012 12:07 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Jabiru 3300 Over Voltage
--> <fran4sew@banyanol.com>
> Have you seen any data source that argues with what's shown above?
No, I was going by Rich's schematic that shows the lamp connected to the
outside terminal of the voltage regulator. But now Rich has explained that
his drawing is a schematic and not a wiring diagram. He is confident that
the voltage regulator is wired correctly. I believe him.
I see 3 possible causes for the high voltage:
1. There is a wiring error.
2. There is an intermittent high resistance connection between the main bus
and the ignition terminal of the regulator, or between regulator ground and
aircraft ground.
3. The voltage regulator is bad.
_
Due to the fact that the 5amp circuit breaker gets warm, I suspect the
voltage regulator is bad. It seems to me that the voltage between the
regulator ground terminal and the regulator voltage-sense terminal should
never go above the set point (14.2). If it does, then the regulator is not
doing its job, regardless of any loose connections elsewhere.
The voltage is still too high, even with the voltage-sense wire connected
directly to the battery. That eliminates the circuit breaker and the master
switch as potential problems.
Bob, please correct me if my reasoning is faulty. Just do not tell my
wife that I made a mistake. :D
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=368433#368433
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