---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/21/12: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:11 AM - Re: Transponder (Doug Ilg) 2. 05:20 AM - Transponder () 3. 06:01 AM - Re: Transponder (John Cammarano) 4. 06:01 AM - Re: Transponder (John Cammarano) 5. 06:37 AM - Re: Transponder (Robert Borger) 6. 06:40 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 03/20/12 (James Meade) 7. 11:52 AM - Re: ELT Antenna (Noel Loveys) 8. 11:59 AM - Re: ELT Antenna (Noel Loveys) 9. 01:14 PM - Re: Re: wingtip vor antenna (Mark Harris) 10. 01:57 PM - Annunciator lights (Tim Andres) 11. 02:35 PM - Re: Annunciator lights (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS) 12. 02:35 PM - Re: wingtip vor antenna - SWR Meter (Jeff Luckey) 13. 03:21 PM - Re: Annunciator lights (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 14. 03:45 PM - Re: Re: wingtip vor antenna - SWR Meter (Noel Loveys) 15. 03:57 PM - Re: ELT Antenna (Kelly McMullen) 16. 05:09 PM - Re: Re: wingtip vor antenna - SWR Meter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 17. 05:14 PM - Re: Source for Bakelite - 1/32" thick (Don) 18. 05:49 PM - Re: Annunciator lights (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 19. 06:14 PM - Re: Annunciator lights (Tim Andres) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:12 AM PST US From: Doug Ilg Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Transponder If you don't like or can't use the info you get here, try asking that quest ion on a ballooning forum.- I have seen things like that cobbled together for balloons (try to find a balloon with an electrical system! :-).- I t hink you're in a "roll your own" situation, here.- As I recall, they were just normal panel mount transponders and encoders with smallish 12V SLA ba tteries in makeshift boxes - no real magic.=0A=0A=0AI can't remember whethe r the ones I've seen were in hot air or gas balloons, so you might want to target both kinds in your search.=0A=0AGood luck!=0A=0A-=0ADoug Ilg=0AGru mman Tiger N74818, College Park-Airport (KCGS), Maryland=0AChallenger II LSS LW (N641LG-reserved)-- kit underway at Laurel Suburban (W18)=0A=0A -=0A=0A=0A=0A>________________________________=0A> From: John Cammarano < jcappraiser@sbcglobal.net>=0A>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:51 PM=0A>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Transponde r=0A> =0A>=0A>Can anyone tell me if there is such a thing as a =0A"Portable transponder". I have a small antique airplane with no electrical =0Asystem & would often like to have a transponder but I don't really want to =0Aadd a small battery. I don't mind adding the small transponder type antenna. I =0Aam trying to find out if there is a transponder out there powered by it 's own =0Arechargeable batteries - like a handheld comm radio or a portable GPS. Any info =0Ahere would be very much appreciated. Thanks. =0AJohnny=0A > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:45 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Transponder 3/21/2012 Hello John, See this web site: http://www.kinetic.co.uk/last.php Note that a true portable transponder for use in the U. S may be a real tough problem to solve because of the TSO requirements. Also note the requirements of 14 CFR 91.413. The sailplane people work in this arena -- just google transponder for sailplanes. Here is one source: http://www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2010B.pdf 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." ============================================================== From: "John Cammarano" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Transponder Can anyone tell me if there is such a thing as a "Portable transponder". I have a small antique airplane with no electrical system & would often like to have a transponder but I don't really want to add a small battery. I don't mind adding the small transponder type antenna. I am trying to find out if there is a transponder out there powered by it's own rechargeable batteries - like a handheld comm radio or a portable GPS. Any info here would be very much appreciated. Thanks. Johnny ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:31 AM PST US From: "John Cammarano" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Transponder Thanks Doug. Johnny From: Doug Ilg Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 5:09 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Transponder If you don't like or can't use the info you get here, try asking that question on a ballooning forum. I have seen things like that cobbled together for balloons (try to find a balloon with an electrical system! :-). I think you're in a "roll your own" situation, here. As I recall, they were just normal panel mount transponders and encoders with smallish 12V SLA batteries in makeshift boxes - no real magic. I can't remember whether the ones I've seen were in hot air or gas balloons, so you might want to target both kinds in your search. Good luck! Doug Ilg Grumman Tiger N74818, College Park Airport (KCGS), Maryland Challenger II LSS LW (N641LG reserved) - kit underway at Laurel Suburban (W18) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: John Cammarano To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:51 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Transponder Can anyone tell me if there is such a thing as a "Portable transponder". I have a small antique airplane with no electrical system & would often like to have a transponder but I don't really want to add a small battery. I don't mind adding the small transponder type antenna. I am trying to find out if there is a transponder out there powered by it's own rechargeable batteries - like a handheld comm radio or a portable GPS. Any info here would be very much appreciated. Thanks. Johnny ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:36 AM PST US From: "John Cammarano" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Transponder Thanks!! - great info. Johnny -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 5:20 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Transponder > > 3/21/2012 > > Hello John, See this web site: > > http://www.kinetic.co.uk/last.php > > Note that a true portable transponder for use in the U. S may be a real > tough problem to solve because of the TSO requirements. Also note the > requirements of 14 CFR 91.413. > > The sailplane people work in this arena -- just google transponder for > sailplanes. Here is one source: > > http://www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2010B.pdf > > > 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort > to gather and understand knowledge." > > ============================================================== > > From: "John Cammarano" > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Transponder > > Can anyone tell me if there is such a thing as a "Portable transponder". > I have a small antique airplane with no electrical system & would often > like to have a transponder but I don't really want to add a small > battery. I don't mind adding the small transponder type antenna. I am > trying to find out if there is a transponder out there powered by it's > own rechargeable batteries - like a handheld comm radio or a portable > GPS. Any info here would be very much appreciated. Thanks. Johnny > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Transponder From: Robert Borger Hi John, Look at Microair. I know they have packages specifically for sailplane operations. Probably Becker, Garrecht and Trig as well. Becker and Microair being the lightest. Unfortunately, none of these are inexpensive. But then, I don't know of any inexpensive transponder. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Mar 21, 2012, at 8:00 AM, John Cammarano wrote: Thanks!! - great info. Johnny -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 5:20 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Transponder > > 3/21/2012 > > Hello John, See this web site: > > http://www.kinetic.co.uk/last.php > > Note that a true portable transponder for use in the U. S may be a real tough problem to solve because of the TSO requirements. Also note the requirements of 14 CFR 91.413. > > The sailplane people work in this arena -- just google transponder for sailplanes. Here is one source: > > http://www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2010B.pdf > > > 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:03 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 03/20/12 From: "James Meade" Portable transponder http://www.lxavionics.co.uk/portables.htm ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:52:04 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna THE INSTRUCTIONS CALL FOR A 22"LENGTH AND THAT IS GOOD FOR THE OLD 121MhZ ELT. The new ETL operate close to 400 mHz therefore should have a length just over 7". I'm sure Bob can give us the practical length. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rasmussen, Robert CAPT USFF, N3 OTRC Sent: March 20, 2012 7:05 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna Greetings All, Two questions: 1. Any problem crafting my own ELT antenna for install in an RV8 tail fairing, per http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Antennas/DIY_Comm_Ant/DIY_Comm.html instructions? 2. What is EMACS! Thanks, Raz ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:59:44 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna It sure would be... but for amateur aircraft you might be able to use your own antenna. Noel From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke Sent: March 20, 2012 10:18 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna Have to look at your ELT installation instructions. The ELT is TSOed and might require that you use their antenna. Ed Holyoke On 3/20/2012 2:35 PM, Rasmussen, Robert CAPT USFF, N3 OTRC wrote: Greetings All, Two questions: 1. Any problem crafting my own ELT antenna for install in an RV8 tail fairing, per http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Antennas/DIY_Comm_Ant/DIY_Comm.html instructions? 2. What is EMACS! Thanks, Raz ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:14:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: wingtip vor antenna From: Mark Harris Bob I can probably loan a swr meter Mark Rent our beautiful 3 bedroom luxury villa in Orlando, Florida. View our virtual tour but book direct with us. See the link below:- http://www.florida1strentals.com/property.php?id=21 Contact Emma and Mark Harris 01582 529820 harrisfloridavilla@hotmail.com On 21 Mar 2012, at 01:50, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > > At 02:18 PM 3/20/2012, you wrote: >> >> Cheers Bob >> >> Looks like a job for the weekend > > Do you have access to an antenna analyzer or > at least an SWR meter? > > > Bob . . . > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:18 PM PST US From: Tim Andres Subject: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator lights Hey gang! I built an annunciator panel using these LED's: http://tinyurl.com/85r8duf Now that Im flying I find they are failing almost weekly. I need to replace them or fix the problem. They incorporate an integral resistor and are rated at 12V. I'm looking for a more durable replacement, maybe something that could be retrofitted into the existing lens as the led and resistor will slide out the back side. Any ideas welcome! Thanks, Tim ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:23 PM PST US From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator lights I built an annunciator panel using these LED's: http://tinyurl.com/85r8duf Now that Im flying I find they are failing almost weekly. I need to replace them or fix the problem. You have LEDs rated for 3-12V and you are running them at 14+ volts. The current flow is too high with this higher voltage and this is most likely why they are failing. If you really like these indicators, you could put in series resistors, or put in lights with a higher voltage rating. Roger ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:25 PM PST US From: "Jeff Luckey" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: wingtip vor antenna - SWR Meter Can this radio shack be used for aviation comm radios? http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId 36239 (at < $40, the price is sure right) IIRC, CB's are around 27 Mhz & airplane radios operate 118-136 Mhz. Is that a problem? -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Harris Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 12:11 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: wingtip vor antenna Bob I can probably loan a swr meter Mark Rent our beautiful 3 bedroom luxury villa in Orlando, Florida. View our virtual tour but book direct with us. See the link below:- http://www.florida1strentals.com/property.php?id=21 Contact Emma and Mark Harris 01582 529820 harrisfloridavilla@hotmail.com On 21 Mar 2012, at 01:50, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > > At 02:18 PM 3/20/2012, you wrote: >> >> Cheers Bob >> >> Looks like a job for the weekend > > Do you have access to an antenna analyzer or > at least an SWR meter? > > > Bob . . . > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:22 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator lights From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us I incorporated a number of Pep Boys LEDs in my panel. The reason I like them is they are slightly longer than a normal LED of that diameter. They are sold LEDs that can be used with 12 volts. The resistors they are using are too small, way too fragile, they didn't clean them before soldering, they did a very poor job soldering and the wire they use just doesn't solder that well. Net is I had several fail on the bench, some the solder joint failed, some the solder joint was high resistance and some the resistor broke. I still like the LEDs, so I just put my own resistor and wires on them and all is well. You can have a look at Hosfelt electronics for LEDs, or www.besthongkong.com if you want to buy a lot of stuff. You don't have to put the resistor inside your annunciator, it can go anywhere along the circuit. Doing the trick where you take a resistor with a leg to the left and a leg to the right, now you take a wire coming from the right, pass the resistor and solder to the left leg, then take a wire coming from the left, pass the resistor and connect it to the right and cover with a piece of heat shrink works very nice. I don't have any pics with clear shrink tubing, but here's a diode in series:http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=82005&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 Here's a resistor in series: http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=82008&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:09 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: wingtip vor antenna - SWR Meter Yes, it is a problem the diodes in this meter are not nearly fast enough to break the RF (Radio Frequency) of VHF into digital segments needed to measure SWR. This unit is usable for frequencies 30 mHz and below. You may find a serviceable meter on eBay. If you buy a Bird Wattmeter make sure the element for 100-250 mHz comes with it. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Luckey Sent: March 21, 2012 8:04 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: wingtip vor antenna - SWR Meter --> Can this radio shack be used for aviation comm radios? http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId 36239 (at < $40, the price is sure right) IIRC, CB's are around 27 Mhz & airplane radios operate 118-136 Mhz. Is that a problem? -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Harris Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 12:11 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: wingtip vor antenna Bob I can probably loan a swr meter Mark Rent our beautiful 3 bedroom luxury villa in Orlando, Florida. View our virtual tour but book direct with us. See the link below:- http://www.florida1strentals.com/property.php?id=21 Contact Emma and Mark Harris 01582 529820 harrisfloridavilla@hotmail.com On 21 Mar 2012, at 01:50, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > > At 02:18 PM 3/20/2012, you wrote: >> >> Cheers Bob >> >> Looks like a job for the weekend > > Do you have access to an antenna analyzer or at least an SWR meter? > > > Bob . . . > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:57:39 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna From: Kelly McMullen The minimum for use of ELTs is to demonstrate that the complete system meets the TSO. Good luck with doing that with a roll your own antenna of unknown impedance and SWR. ELTs and transponders are two items on OBAM aircraft that must comply with the TSO. Noel wrote: It sure would be... but for amateur aircraft you might be able to use your own antenna. Noel *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ed Holyoke *Sent:* March 20, 2012 10:18 PM *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna Have to look at your ELT installation instructions. The ELT is TSOed and might require that you use their antenna. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:32 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: wingtip vor antenna - SWR Meter At 05:42 PM 3/21/2012, you wrote: > >Yes, it is a problem the diodes in this meter are not nearly fast enough to >break the RF (Radio Frequency) of VHF into digital segments needed to >measure SWR. This unit is usable for frequencies 30 mHz and below. >You may find a serviceable meter on eBay. If you buy a Bird Wattmeter make >sure the element for 100-250 mHz comes with it. The Bird products are the gold standard for RF wattmeters. A few months ago we had some discussion on the List about the HF SWR meters common to CB radio frequencies and below. These are not suited to VHF as their sampled transmission line is too long with respect to a wavelength at the frequencies of interest for VHF. They tend to give 'good' readings to poor antennas. We also had some discussions about this device: Emacs! Which you can get off eBay for about $60 postage paid. http://tinyurl.com/7cl4bba I purchased one of these and found it a quite good value. Reasonably accurate for power readings down into the 100 milliwatt range. The one I have here on my bench is spoken for and will be out of here next week . . . but the folks offering it on eBay have plenty more. Be sure to get two N-Male/BNC-Female adapters. Emacs! http://tinyurl.com/6m7ujmw These are about $2.50 each postage paid. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:23 PM PST US From: "Don" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Source for Bakelite - 1/32" thick Package is on the way via Fedex. Open from the bottom marked open this side. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 8:23 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Source for Bakelite - 1/32" thick At 11:09 PM 3/17/2012, you wrote: > >Bob, >I have one that has the wrong cap on it. I talked to Bob Archer and he told >me thet the cap belongs on one of his dipole ant rather than on the >monopole that it is installed on. He sent me a replacement cap that I have >not installed yet. I can ship the entire thing to you for the experiment. >You will also notice that the "Bakelite is different on each cap" Send me an >address via the email address that shows with my name. Interesting! You can send the stuff to me at P.O. Box 130, Medicine Lodge, KS 67104-0130 or if you need to go UPS, then 209 Curry Lane Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:00 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator lights At 03:55 PM 3/21/2012, you wrote: > >Hey gang! >I built an annunciator panel using these LED's: >http://tinyurl.com/85r8duf > >Now that Im flying I find they are failing almost weekly. I need to >replace them or fix the problem. They incorporate an integral >resistor and are rated at 12V. I'm looking for a more durable >replacement, maybe something that could be retrofitted into the >existing lens as the led and resistor will slide out the back side. What colors are you needing? Can you send me one of these fixtures . . . or at least take some good pix of the disassembled hardware as supplied. LEDs are not generally very fragile. Are you sure it's the LED that's failing and not the resistor? Some years ago we had some discussion about LED fragility and life vs. intensity here on the List. I took issue with a few readers who cited 'not to exceed' ratings for LEDs lest they depart for the happy glowing ground. I took a 10mm LED rated at 30 mA and wired it to a wall-wart biased up at about 4x that rating. I plugged it into an outlet in my garage and left it. You could see rather well in a darkened garage from the emitted light. Over a year later, I took it off the wall still illuminated. I didn't measure it's light output to see if it degraded but it certainly didn't go into gross failure. For use in annunciators where the lights are OFF most of the time, it might be a good idea to over-drive the LEDs in the interest of sun-light viewable performance. There are some honk'n LEDs available. I bought some 10mm reds and greens from this guy for a courtroom, table-top demonstrator . . . http://tinyurl.com/7jlgymk Very adequate for getting one's attention in a well lit courtroom. This seller http://tinyurl.com/7n75xu2 has some killer whites rated at 1W. These might do what you want depending on the ability of your caps to set the color when illuminated with white led. This much power in an LED probably calls for some heat-sinking . . . but you may find that you can run them a lot cooler and still get the necessary light. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:21 PM PST US From: Tim Andres Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator lights On 3/21/2012 5:46 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > At 03:55 PM 3/21/2012, you wrote: >> >> >> Hey gang! >> I built an annunciator panel using these LED's: >> http://tinyurl.com/85r8duf >> >> Now that Im flying I find they are failing almost weekly. I need to >> replace them or fix the problem. They incorporate an integral >> resistor and are rated at 12V. I'm looking for a more durable >> replacement, maybe something that could be retrofitted into the >> existing lens as the led and resistor will slide out the back side. > > What colors are you needing? Can you send me one > of these fixtures . . . or at least take some good > pix of the disassembled hardware as supplied. Thanks Bob! I'll have to check if its the resistors that failed next time I get to the hangar but I noticed some of the on-line LED/resistor calculators call for a 1/2 w resistor and the ones installed in the fixtures look like 1/8w. I'll report back but have already bought new LEDs to fix them with and in fact found some blinking ones to boot that I'll use on my OP light. Thanks, Tim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.