Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:53 AM - Re SWR Meter? (paul wilson)
2. 07:10 AM - Re: Re SWR Meter? (Harley)
3. 08:18 AM - Re: Re SWR Meter? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 08:18 AM - Re: Re SWR Meter? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 08:48 AM - Re: Should I Buy an SWR Meter? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 09:09 AM - Re: Re SWR Meter? (paul wilson)
7. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: HID lighting observations (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 10:13 AM - Re: Re SWR Meter? (Miskelly, Francis G)
9. 11:31 AM - Re: Re SWR Meter? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 11:57 AM - Re: Re: Wingtip VOR antenna . . . a clearer picture (Mark Harris)
11. 01:13 PM - Re: Re: Wingtip VOR antenna . . . a clearer picture (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 01:41 PM - Re: Re SWR Meter? (Miskelly, Francis G)
13. 03:32 PM - Uneven dipole elements (Dave Saylor)
14. 07:48 PM - Re: Uneven dipole elements (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 09:34 PM - Re: Re: HID lighting observations (Thomas Johnson)
16. 10:41 PM - Re: Uneven dipole elements (Dave Saylor)
Message 1
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Some input
I use my meter to check from time to time to verify all is well.
This link has info on the meters
<http://www.eham.net/reviews/products/40?ehamsid=a9efc7e8e58a376ce24c0118effd4579>http://www.eham.net/reviews/products/40?ehamsid=a9efc7e8e58a376ce24c0118effd4579
The one I use is an MFJ-862 It has 2 needles for Forward and
Reflected and will read watts for both. This is a low price unit,
definately not a high, but had OK reviews. I have no idea if one can
still buy it?
PaulW
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Re SWR Meter? |
Paul...
Yep, still available...(a little more than you probably paid for
it):
www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-862
Harley
> I use my meter to check from time to time to verify all is well.
> This link has info on the meters
> http://www.eham.net/reviews/products/40?ehamsid=a9efc7e8e58a376ce24c0118effd4579
>
>
> The one I use is an MFJ-862 It has 2 needles for Forward and
> Reflected and will read watts for both. This is a low price
> unit, definately not a high, but had OK reviews. I have no idea
> if one can still buy it?
> PaulW
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Re SWR Meter? |
OOPS! Stubbed my toe on that one. The price I latched onto
was for the DC power supply, the instrument itself sells for
about $70.
-----------------------------------------------------
At 08:07 AM 3/29/2012, you wrote:
Some input
I use my meter to check from time to time to verify all is well.
This link has info on the meters
http://www.eham.net/reviews/products/40?ehamsid=a9efc7e8e58a376ce24c0118effd4579
The one I use is an MFJ-862 It has 2 needles for Forward and
Reflected and will read watts for both. This is a low price unit,
definately not a high, but had OK reviews. I have no idea if one can
still buy it?
PaulW
I found one offered here:
http://tinyurl.com/6m8zrru
Given it's rather complex set of features
(rear panel calibration pots) and low
price ($16) I'm wondering if they don't
have an inventory that they'd REALLY like
to get rid of.
MFJ is usually pretty good stuff and this
item does claim to cover VHF but I'm not
convinced that this is a good buy. I'm
tempted to order one at this price just to
take it apart for a looksee . . .
If you'd like to compare your personal item
with a set of BIRD measurements, I'd be pleased
to do the work. I'll pay return postage.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Re SWR Meter? |
At 08:07 AM 3/29/2012, you wrote:
>Some input
>
>I use my meter to check from time to time to verify all is well.
>This link has info on the meters
><http://www.eham.net/reviews/products/40?ehamsid=a9efc7e8e58a376ce24c0118effd4579>http://www.eham.net/reviews/products/40?ehamsid=a9efc7e8e58a376ce24c0118effd4579
>
>
>The one I use is an MFJ-862 It has 2 needles for Forward and
>Reflected and will read watts for both. This is a low price unit,
>definately not a high, but had OK reviews. I have no idea if one can
>still buy it?
>PaulW
I found one offered here:
http://tinyurl.com/6m8zrru
Given it's rather complex set of features
(rear panel calibration pots) and low
price ($16) I'm wondering if they don't
have an inventory that they'd REALLY like
to get rid of.
MFJ is usually pretty good stuff and this
item does claim to cover VHF but I'm not
convinced that this is a good buy. I'm
tempted to order one at this price just to
take it apart for a looksee . . .
If you'd like to compare your personal item
with a set of BIRD measurements, I'd be pleased
to do the work. I'll pay return postage.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Should I Buy an SWR Meter? |
At 10:52 PM 3/28/2012, you wrote:
Bob,
I=92m building an RV7A and I=92m into
electronics. Should I buy an SWR meter? I know
it can help me optimize the antenna systems for
my com transmitters and I enjoy geeking-out on things like this.
Just how MUCH do you enjoy it? I have two shops and
a large inventory of tools and materials . . . MOST
of which has not been touched in months to perhaps
decades. NEED? Obviously small. Potential for addressing
a design goal? Obviously great . . . but every project
usually requires some purchases . . . of materials and
the occasional tool.
Any borrow/buy advice offered by any of us will be
polluted with personal perceptions of need/usefulness.
I'd suggest that it comes down to expendable cash.
Suppose you DID run off and spend $100 on a nice VHF
SWR instrument. Suppose further that 10 years from
now you find that you've used the device perhaps a few
times at the outset but not once in the last 8 years?
How would you judge your return on investment then?
Can an SWR meter help w/ the setup of VOR
receivers as well. Can it help me w/ the
installation of the Bob Archer antenna for
VOR? (I thought that SWR was used primarily for measurements w/
transmitters).
It is true that ALL such instruments need to excite the
antenna or feed line at the frequency of interest. But
that excitation can come from a variety of sources
depending on the sensitivity of the instrument.
SWR meters like the Red Dot device we've discussed
recently need a watt or so. Antenna analyzers like the
MJF-259 (and close cousins) have internal signal generators
to supply the necessary excitation.
In the case of your VOR antenna, I'd suggest using
a hand held and some device like the Red Dot SWR
meter. You can tune for optimum performance at the
lowest COMM frequency which is at the upper end of
the VOR band. This would be great verification of
gross performance and more than adequate for VOR
reception.
Is there a =93Big Dummies Guide to Antenna Theory=94
book available? I=92d like to squelch some of my ignorance in this area.
Hmmmm . . . the short answer is YES. But the constellation
of antenna styles and design goals is . . . shall we say . . .
HUGE? I have antenna books on the shelves wherein
98% of the pages offered nothing useful to my professional
activities . . . but the 2% of useful stuff was very
helpful. I'm reluctant to suggest specific titles.
Do some 'net searches on VHF antennas and SWR. Look over
the construction articles, techniques for adjusting,
etc. You will probably learn more that is useful to your
aviation interests by playing with antennas in the shop
that are also destined to go on your airplane.
Remember this picture? I don't even recall what we were
discussing on the List but I did this little 1/4-Comm antenna
setup on a sheet of copper clad right here in the shop.
But I'm confident that we learned or demonstrated something
interesting or useful.
Emacs!
Then there is the constellation of grey-matter here on
the list that is accessible to you. I've been gathering
the stuff together to do a back-yard-antenna-range evaluation
of performance for BALUN versus NOBALUN. During this
exercise I'll explore the notion that a Pawsy stub
does behave like transmission line with some small dielectric
effects for velocity factor and should be mechanically shortened
to center it up at the frequency of interest.
I'll document that experiment and post it to AeroElectric.com
(so many questions, so little time=85)
You got that right. Education is expensive. It goes far beyond
the cost of tuition, tools and materials. The big expense is
$time$. Hence the notion that participation in activities like
the AeroElectric-List can and should offer significant reduction
in the expenditure of $time$. This applies to both academic science
and practical arts of our shared interests.
Buy an SWR meter? You bet! But with the caveats I've cited
above tucked into your hip pocket.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Re SWR Meter? |
MFJ-862 Reviews
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/4367
Cannot remember what I paid back when. Withouit a long search looks
like $65-70 is the going price
I bought it to cover my mobiles 144/220/440 MGHz and of course that
includes the aviation band.
Ok for the 5 watt as well as my 50 watt units.
PaulW
=========
At 08:12 AM 3/29/2012, you wrote:
>At 08:07 AM 3/29/2012, you wrote:
>>Some input
>>
>>I use my meter to check from time to time to verify all is well.
>>This link has info on the meters
>><http://www.eham.net/reviews/products/40?ehamsid=a9efc7e8e58a376ce24c0118effd4579>http://www.eham.net/reviews/products/40?ehamsid=a9efc7e8e58a376ce24c0118effd4579
>>
>>
>>The one I use is an MFJ-862 It has 2 needles for Forward and
>>Reflected and will read watts for both. This is a low price unit,
>>definately not a high, but had OK reviews. I have no idea if one
>>can still buy it?
>>PaulW
>
> I found one offered here:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/6m8zrru
>
> Given it's rather complex set of features
> (rear panel calibration pots) and low
> price ($16) I'm wondering if they don't
> have an inventory that they'd REALLY like
> to get rid of.
>
> MFJ is usually pretty good stuff and this
> item does claim to cover VHF but I'm not
> convinced that this is a good buy. I'm
> tempted to order one at this price just to
> take it apart for a looksee . . .
>
> If you'd like to compare your personal item
> with a set of BIRD measurements, I'd be pleased
> to do the work. I'll pay return postage.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: re: HID lighting observations |
>When I upgraded from halogen to HID lights
>several years ago I had a problem with this. My
>own design PIC based wig-wag controller no longer worked at all.
Did the PIC wander off into the weeds and lock up?
> I found that the HID lights had a huge inrush
> current each time they switched on. I tried a
> few fixes and got the best results by running
> the HID power and ground wires together through
> a 1/2 dia X 1 long ferrite core. Using two in series worked even better.
Ferrites are sometimes useful for repetitive events
like noise but less useful for transient events like
inrush currents.
I'll try to get some transient/running captures on
the two HID units I have here. I could probably
get some data on the ones in the car too if I can
find my current probes for the 'scope. I'm still un-packing
move boxes.
>
>The first time I tested the ferrites I used a
>split half type because it is easier to pop on
>and off in different locations. While I was
>watching the scope I noticed a new, fairly loud
>clicking sound coming from the HID controller
>area. It turned out to be the split ferrite
>half's snapping together each time power came
>on. That is some serious energy transfer!
I'm reminded of some strange noises I used to hear
periodically up in the ceiling structure of a new
building put up by my employer. Out in the shops
I used to hear a noise that seemed to come from
the conduits.
I later came to understand that this was the
convulsive thrashing of the ac wiring that went
out to large motors at the back of the building.
Every time a big motor started up, induced repulsion
of the adjacent wires in the conduit made noises.
Good data Tom.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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Does the MFG-862 cover the aviation band (108-116 MHz)
- Frank
________________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]
on behalf of paul wilson [pwmac@sisna.com]
Sent: 29 March 2012 17:05
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re SWR Meter?
MFJ-862 Reviews
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/4367
Cannot remember what I paid back when. Withouit a long search looks like $65-70
is the going price
I bought it to cover my mobiles 144/220/440 MGHz and of course that includes the
aviation band.
Ok for the 5 watt as well as my 50 watt units.
PaulW
=========
At 08:12 AM 3/29/2012, you wrote:
At 08:07 AM 3/29/2012, you wrote:
Some input
I use my meter to check from time to time to verify all is well.
This link has info on the meters
http://www.eham.net/reviews/products/40?ehamsid=a9efc7e8e58a376ce24c0118effd4579
The one I use is an MFJ-862 It has 2 needles for Forward and Reflected and will
read watts for both. This is a low price unit, definately not a high, but had
OK reviews. I have no idea if one can still buy it?
PaulW
I found one offered here:
http://tinyurl.com/6m8zrru
Given it's rather complex set of features
(rear panel calibration pots) and low
price ($16) I'm wondering if they don't
have an inventory that they'd REALLY like
to get rid of.
MFJ is usually pretty good stuff and this
item does claim to cover VHF but I'm not
convinced that this is a good buy. I'm
tempted to order one at this price just to
take it apart for a looksee . . .
If you'd like to compare your personal item
with a set of BIRD measurements, I'd be pleased
to do the work. I'll pay return postage.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
http://forums.matronics.com
- List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 9
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At 12:10 PM 3/29/2012, you wrote:
><f.miskelly@imperial.ac.uk>
>
>
>Does the MFG-862 cover the aviation band (108-116 MHz)
> - Frank
Probably not guaranteed to published specifications
but still useful. There was some discussion a few
weeks back about suitability of the LO Band (3-30
Mhz) devices being used at VHF. Typically devices
like this:
Emacs!
These do perform as advertised in the 3-30 Mhz
range but tend to run off into the weeds at 4x
the top design frequency.
On the other hand, the MFJ862 used at 108-135
(full range aviation) is still at 75% of lower
end of 144 ham band. Maybe not quite as accurate
with respect to absolute readings but still
a good indicator of performance and useful for
finding frequency of lowest SWR.
For about the same $ you can pick up one of these
http://tinyurl.com/6pjbckd
which is designed for our particular frequencies
of interest.
On the other hand, there are some DIY options too.
Take a look at this article:
http://tinyurl.com/7dmupav
This DIY project is tailored to the 2.5 GHz range
for WiFi work but the same technique can be easily
adapted to lower frequencies.
Here's another one.
http://tinyurl.com/83e5u2q
All it takes is $time$ and patience . . . but
it can be fun . . .
Bob . . .
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Wingtip VOR antenna . . . a clearer picture |
Bob
Ok now I have a problem ,at the weekend I made the VOR antenna to the dimensions
previously discussed/aero electrics book I believe,these are very different
to the ones shown on the previous link ,which should I use?
Thanks
Mark
Rent our beautiful 3 bedroom luxury villa in Orlando, Florida.
View our virtual tour but book direct with us. See the link below:-
http://www.florida1strentals.com/property.php?id=21
Contact Emma and Mark Harris 01582 529820
harrisfloridavilla@hotmail.com
On 28 Mar 2012, at 21:47, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
>
> Thanks to List member van Saten, we've got some
> better details for a DIY wingtip VOR antenna. See:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6v5gvhx
>
> It seems that the sketch I was working from years ago
> was either not up to date or in error.
>
> The insulator turns out to be either glass or cloth
> filled phenolic, 0.062 inches thick. The measured
> value of an off-the-shelf gamma-match capacitor is
> 34 pf @ 1 KHz.
>
> I think the data above will get the builder closer to
> a workable example of this particular antenna.
>
> Thanks Don! Your antenna will be back in the mail today.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Wingtip VOR antenna . . . a clearer picture |
At 01:56 PM 3/29/2012, you wrote:
>
>Bob
>
>Ok now I have a problem ,at the weekend I made the VOR antenna to
>the dimensions previously discussed/aero electrics book I
>believe,these are very different to the ones shown on the previous
>link ,which should I use?
The dimensions I published originally were
parroted from an article in an Van's Air Force
publication . . . probably 10-12 years ago.
It was not until I put my hands on a 'real'
antenna (thanks to Don S) did I have an opportunity
to check/update the VAF drawings.
Are you flying or close to flying the earlier
'version'? It would be interesting to do a
seat-of-the-pants observation on differences
in performance. You could build up a 'new'
antenna but keep it in reserve until you've
flown the 'old' one.
I'm thinking that it would be difficult to
tell much difference from the pilot's seat
but you might perhaps dispel that notion
for me.
The question that started this thread involved
procurement of 1/32" Bakelite . . . while in
fact, 1/16" Phenolic is the 'real' material.
It was something of a windfall that other
discrepancies were discovered. Sorry 'bout that.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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Many thanks Bob.
That's extremely helpful.
You're a true gentleman!
- Frank
________________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [owner-aeroelectric-list
-server@matronics.com] on behalf of Robert L. Nuckolls, III [nuckolls.bob@a
eroelectric.com]
Sent: 29 March 2012 19:29
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re SWR Meter?
At 12:10 PM 3/29/2012, you wrote:
imperial.ac.uk>
Does the MFG-862 cover the aviation band (108-116 MHz)
- Frank
Probably not guaranteed to published specifications
but still useful. There was some discussion a few
weeks back about suitability of the LO Band (3-30
Mhz) devices being used at VHF. Typically devices
like this:
[Emacs!]
These do perform as advertised in the 3-30 Mhz
range but tend to run off into the weeds at 4x
the top design frequency.
On the other hand, the MFJ862 used at 108-135
(full range aviation) is still at 75% of lower
end of 144 ham band. Maybe not quite as accurate
with respect to absolute readings but still
a good indicator of performance and useful for
finding frequency of lowest SWR.
For about the same $ you can pick up one of these
http://tinyurl.com/6pjbckd
which is designed for our particular frequencies
of interest.
On the other hand, there are some DIY options too.
Take a look at this article:
http://tinyurl.com/7dmupav
This DIY project is tailored to the 2.5 GHz range
for WiFi work but the same technique can be easily
adapted to lower frequencies.
Here's another one.
http://tinyurl.com/83e5u2q
All it takes is $time$ and patience . . . but
it can be fun . . .
Bob . . .
Message 13
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Subject: | Uneven dipole elements |
Bob,
We managed to chop about 3 inches off the end of a dipole comm
antenna. Would that have any appreciable effect on performance?
--Dave Saylor
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Uneven dipole elements |
At 05:30 PM 3/29/2012, you wrote:
><dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com>
>
>Bob,
>
>We managed to chop about 3 inches off the end of a dipole comm
>antenna. Would that have any appreciable effect on performance?
Sure, but if I were to give you a 'number' . . . it wouldn't
have much practical meaning. Is this an internal antenna?
Can't you splice it back on?
Bob . . .
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: re: HID lighting observations |
> Did the PIC wander off into the weeds and lock up?
Usually it would make one and a half wig-wags and then lock up,
requiring a power cycle to recover. At that time I was not utilizing
the PIC Brown-out Reset (BOR) feature. I=99ll bet that would have
given me a clean reset. Once I knocked the inrush spike down a little I
never saw the problem again.
I had never needed to fix an inrush issue before and I assumed that a
quick internet search would yield a handful of simple solutions. What I
found is that high inrush current is a growing problem for modern
electronics, and if it=99s not dealt with in the original design
it can be real hard to fix later.
The neatest solution I read about (but never got around to trying) is to
ramp up voltage to the HID controller slowly. I was already using a
P-FET to switch power on/off so it didn=99t sound too difficult to
do that.
Tom Johnson
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Uneven dipole elements |
>>Can't you splice it back on?<<
Short answer--no.
We had to lop the tip off a vertical stab to make room for more rudder horn
on a Lancair ES. I didn't stop to think about an internal antenna. I
shoulda.
On further inspection, the antenna seems to have three elements. Two run
up each side of the Vstab trailing edge, aft of the stern post. They're
embedded in the fiberglass and are nearly equal in length.
The element that was cut off is 8" forward of the Vstab trailing edge. I
can't tell exactly how the three segments are connected. The aft-most two
elements are visible through the fiberglass when the rudder is removed. I
can see a lot of the cut element using a boroscope inside the Vstab.
Would I hurt the radio to try transmitting and receiving? If this isn't
easy to fix, we have the option of installing a belly-mounted replacement
antenna using a spray-on ground plane.
--Dave Saylor
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 7:45 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com**>
>
>
> At 05:30 PM 3/29/2012, you wrote:
>
>> dave.saylor.aircrafters@**gmail.com <dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com>>
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> We managed to chop about 3 inches off the end of a dipole comm
>> antenna. Would that have any appreciable effect on performance?
>>
>
> Sure, but if I were to give you a 'number' . . . it wouldn't
> have much practical meaning. Is this an internal antenna?
> Can't you splice it back on?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
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