Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:52 AM - Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
2. 06:45 AM - Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (Eric M. Jones)
3. 06:57 AM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (Jared Yates)
4. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (Ed Anderson)
5. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
6. 08:27 AM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (Bob Verwey)
7. 09:14 AM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
8. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (Jared Yates)
9. 10:41 AM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (B Tomm)
10. 11:28 AM - Re: Re: Wingtip VOR antenna . . . a clearer picture (Mark Harris)
11. 11:32 AM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator ()
12. 11:40 AM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (B Tomm)
13. 12:16 PM - Converting to externally reg alternator (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
14. 01:03 PM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 01:09 PM - Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (B Tomm)
16. 01:44 PM - please help me...........Rick (Rick Lark)
17. 03:03 PM - Re: please help me...........Rick (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 03:59 PM - Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (rayj)
19. 04:01 PM - Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 04:35 PM - Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 04:38 PM - Converting to externally reg alternator (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
22. 06:39 PM - Re: please help me...........Rick (Rick Lark)
23. 07:41 PM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 07:44 PM - Re: please help me...........Rick (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
25. 08:19 PM - Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (B Tomm)
26. 08:21 PM - Gallery of First Flight Photos (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
27. 08:31 PM - Troubleshooting Field Breaker (piavis@comcast.net)
Message 1
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Subject: | Converting to externally reg alternator |
I have seen it but can't find it right now. Can you point me to an
instruction for converting an internally regulated alternator to external?
Thanks
Bevan
Here is one at the EAA site which might help you.
http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp
Roger
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Converting to externally reg alternator |
Eric is easily amused...
try:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Converting+to+externally+regulated+alternator
But here is where I will annoy Bob N.: Consider the fact that if automobile regulators
had a lower failure rate if they were externally regulated, auto makers
would use them. The fact is that BRAND NEW (not rebuilt) Nippon Denso alternators
seem to have a nearly-zero failure rate.
Then make your decision. I have had several builders send me their external regulators
for examination. This cemented my opinion permanently.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369828#369828
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Converting to externally reg alternator |
I think Bob will say that the failure rate is less important than the failure mode.
At least that is what I would say.
On Apr 2, 2012, at 9:43, "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net> wrote:
>
> Eric is easily amused...
>
> try:
>
> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Converting+to+externally+regulated+alternator
>
> But here is where I will annoy Bob N.: Consider the fact that if automobile regulators
had a lower failure rate if they were externally regulated, auto makers
would use them. The fact is that BRAND NEW (not rebuilt) Nippon Denso alternators
seem to have a nearly-zero failure rate.
>
> Then make your decision. I have had several builders send me their external regulators
for examination. This cemented my opinion permanently.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369828#369828
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Converting to externally reg alternator |
I have been flying over 12 years on a Bosch (rebuilt) alternator with
internal regulator - with no problems. The only downside I can see is that
once it has bootstrapped itself, removing voltage to the field coil does not
stop the output. So if I had a runaway alternator it could theoretically
fry my electronics - on the other hand, in all my life of driving
automobiles and the one or two alternator failures (failed diodes), I've
never had a runaway alternator failure mode.
FWIW
Ed
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 9:43 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator
> <emjones@charter.net>
>
> Eric is easily amused...
>
> try:
>
> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Converting+to+externally+regulated+alternator
>
> But here is where I will annoy Bob N.: Consider the fact that if
> automobile regulators had a lower failure rate if they were externally
> regulated, auto makers would use them. The fact is that BRAND NEW (not
> rebuilt) Nippon Denso alternators seem to have a nearly-zero failure rate.
>
> Then make your decision. I have had several builders send me their
> external regulators for examination. This cemented my opinion permanently.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369828#369828
>
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Converting to externally reg alternator |
Consider the fact that if automobile regulators had a lower failure rate
if
they were externally regulated, auto makers would use them. The fact is
that
BRAND NEW (not rebuilt) Nippon Denso alternators seem to have a
nearly-zero
failure rate.
Then make your decision. I have had several builders send me their
external
regulators for examination. This cemented my opinion permanently.
Eric,
I believe that perhaps Bob does agree with you, in that the
internally regulated alternator has "nearly-zero" but NOT ZERO failure.
Apparently there have been some cases of catastrophic over voltage with
no
way to shut it down, when in the air. Have you found this to be the
case
with the externally regulated alternators? With the external regulator,
when you shut off power to the regulator it positively shuts down the
alternator.
I personally feel that the risk is very low with the
internal regulation, but also wonder why TC aircraft have continued to
use
external regulation.
Roger
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Converting to externally reg alternator |
Does the crowbar module not offer enough protection? With a VFR day
only, electronic ignition setup, minimal elctrogizmos, does not the
reserve battery power give a safe reserve?
Bob Verwey
On 02/04/2012, ROGER & JEAN CURTIS <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net> wrote:
> Consider the fact that if automobile regulators had a lower failure rate if
> they were externally regulated, auto makers would use them. The fact is that
> BRAND NEW (not rebuilt) Nippon Denso alternators seem to have a nearly-zero
> failure rate.
>
> Then make your decision. I have had several builders send me their external
> regulators for examination. This cemented my opinion permanently.
>
>
> Eric,
>
> I believe that perhaps Bob does agree with you, in that the
> internally regulated alternator has "nearly-zero" but NOT ZERO failure.
> Apparently there have been some cases of catastrophic over voltage with no
> way to shut it down, when in the air. Have you found this to be the case
> with the externally regulated alternators? With the external regulator,
> when you shut off power to the regulator it positively shuts down the
> alternator.
>
> I personally feel that the risk is very low with the
> internal regulation, but also wonder why TC aircraft have continued to use
> external regulation.
>
> Roger
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Converting to externally reg alternator |
Does the crowbar module not offer enough protection? With a VFR day
only, electronic ignition setup, minimal elctrogizmos, does not the
reserve battery power give a safe reserve?
Bob Verwey
The Conventional crowbar module is used with the external
regulator. The internal regulator does not work with the external crowbar
circuit.
Roger
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Converting to externally reg alternator |
My internally regulated plane power alt has crowbar ov protection.
On Apr 2, 2012, at 12:12, "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
wrote:
>
> Does the crowbar module not offer enough protection? With a VFR day
> only, electronic ignition setup, minimal elctrogizmos, does not the
> reserve battery power give a safe reserve?
>
> Bob Verwey
>
>
> The Conventional crowbar module is used with the external
> regulator. The internal regulator does not work with the external crowbar
> circuit.
>
> Roger
> <winmail.dat>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Converting to externally reg alternator |
Wow, I didn't think my question would hit such a sensitive nerve. In the
same league as a primer war.
My question was about the "how" but many of you are interested in discussing
the "why". Here's where I'm coming from.
For better or worse, the decision was made a long time ago to configure my
electrical system for external regulation ala Bob M. Now I'm getting close
to needing an alternator and looking at the options. I will have an SD-8
backup alternator and therefore don't consider the main alternator as being
required to be of the absolute best quality. It just needs to have a
failure mode that does not affect other more expensive electronics. As far
as I know, there are no "100% guaranteed to work for ever" alternators
anyway. So my theory is to have a spare in the hangar ready to go or to be
brought to me when/if a failure occurs. I'm thinking I would rather have
two $100 alternators that I have converted to external regulation and tested
than one $595 alternator and no spare.
When, converting two to external regulation I will learn something and
decide whether I can do this when away from my regular tool box. I may be
too far from my spare and have to buy an internally regulated one and
convert it out in the field. I seem to recall that it's not too difficult
of a process. More like a removal of unnecessary parts. Something I am
usually pretty good at. I plan on keeping some maintenance papers in the
plane's tool bag anyway, one of which could be the alternator process.
My thoughts only. You may have another opinion and that's fine with me.
Bevan
"I like to build and fix things"
> _____________________________________________
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ROGER
> & JEAN CURTIS
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 9:12 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Converting to externally reg
> alternator
>
>
> Does the crowbar module not offer enough protection? With a VFR day
> only, electronic ignition setup, minimal elctrogizmos, does not the
> reserve battery power give a safe reserve?
>
> Bob Verwey
>
>
> The Conventional crowbar module is used with the external regulator.
> The internal regulator does not work with the external crowbar circuit.
>
> Roger
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Wingtip VOR antenna . . . a clearer picture |
Hi Bob
Thanks for the reply ref the differing dimensions of the VOR antenna.i am some
way off flying but will run with the one already made and see how it performs.depending
on the out come I can always try the other dimension antenna.
Thanks for all your help
Mark
Rent our beautiful 3 bedroom luxury villa in Orlando, Florida.
View our virtual tour but book direct with us. See the link below:-
http://www.florida1strentals.com/property.php?id=21
Contact Emma and Mark Harris 01582 529820
harrisfloridavilla@hotmail.com
On 28 Mar 2012, at 21:47, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
>
> Thanks to List member van Saten, we've got some
> better details for a DIY wingtip VOR antenna. See:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6v5gvhx
>
> It seems that the sketch I was working from years ago
> was either not up to date or in error.
>
> The insulator turns out to be either glass or cloth
> filled phenolic, 0.062 inches thick. The measured
> value of an off-the-shelf gamma-match capacitor is
> 34 pf @ 1 KHz.
>
> I think the data above will get the builder closer to
> a workable example of this particular antenna.
>
> Thanks Don! Your antenna will be back in the mail today.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Converting to externally reg alternator |
Beven,
According to Mr. Google, this should take about 30 minutes. http://www.wallaceracing.com/alt-conversion.html
It looks like it's more popular to covert externals to internals (at least in the
automotive world where the externals always failed).
Funny, I don't see too many folks lying under their cars on the turnpike pulling
out their internally regulated jobs. I've run many a car well past 100k and
never had the alternator go. That's why I've got an IR in my bird. I took have
an SD-8. Wouldn't leave home without it.
Occasionally I talk to pilots who piss and moan about how they had to fly their
so and so to the alternator shop so they could have Mr. Alternator specialist
provide a special part for their regulator. No Thanks
Cut those wires and go fly. It's summer time.
Glenn, N57
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 1:39 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator
Wow, I didn't think my question would hit such a sensitive nerve. In the same
league as a primer war.
My question was about the "how" but many of you are interested in discussing the
"why". Here's where I'm coming from.
For better or worse, the decision was made a long time ago to configure my electrical
system for external regulation ala Bob M. Now I'm getting close to needing
an alternator and looking at the options. I will have an SD-8 backup alternator
and therefore don't consider the main alternator as being required to
be of the absolute best quality. It just needs to have a failure mode that does
not affect other more expensive electronics. As far as I know, there are no
"100% guaranteed to work for ever" alternators anyway. So my theory is to have
a spare in the hangar ready to go or to be brought to me when/if a failure
occurs. I'm thinking I would rather have two $100 alternators that I have converted
to external regulation and tested than one $595 alternator and no spare.
When, converting two to external regulation I will learn something and decide whether
I can do this when away from my regular tool box. I may be too far from
my spare and have to buy an internally regulated one and convert it out in the
field. I seem to recall that it's not too difficult of a process. More like
a removal of unnecessary parts. Something I am usually pretty good at. I
plan on keeping some maintenance papers in the plane's tool bag anyway, one of
which could be the alternator process.
My thoughts only. You may have another opinion and that's fine with me.
Bevan
"I like to build and fix things"
> _____________________________________________
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> ROGER & JEAN CURTIS
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 9:12 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Converting to externally reg
> alternator
>
>
> Does the crowbar module not offer enough protection? With a VFR day
> only, electronic ignition setup, minimal elctrogizmos, does not the
> reserve battery power give a safe reserve?
>
> Bob Verwey
>
>
> The Conventional crowbar module is used with the external regulator.
> The internal regulator does not work with the external crowbar circuit.
>
> Roger
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Converting to externally reg alternator |
Eric,
Very funny. But even this google search did not turn up what I was looking
for. It seems that your search result was to convert an old car to
internally regulated alternators. So I say "very funny". I know how to do
a google search. What I was looking for was a step by step documented
procedure I had seen on someone's build site.
Could it be that automotive manufactures may have gone to internal
regulation because is was more reliable via a solid state design with all
components contained within one housing therefore easier to install in the
vehicles coming down the assembly line? Were the voltage regulators that
you took apart and didn't like, mechanical regulators? I seem to recall my
1971 chev truck had a mechanical regulator mounted on the fender.
Bevan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M.
Jones
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 6:43 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator
--> <emjones@charter.net>
Eric is easily amused...
try:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Converting+to+externally+regulated+alternator
But here is where I will annoy Bob N.: Consider the fact that if automobile
regulators had a lower failure rate if they were externally regulated, auto
makers would use them. The fact is that BRAND NEW (not rebuilt) Nippon Denso
alternators seem to have a nearly-zero failure rate.
Then make your decision. I have had several builders send me their external
regulators for examination. This cemented my opinion permanently.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369828#369828
Message 13
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Subject: | Converting to externally reg alternator |
Bevan,
Was this not the information you were looking for??
I have seen it but can't find it right now. Can you point me to an
instruction for converting an internally regulated alternator to external?
Thanks
Bevan
Here is one at the EAA site which might help you.
http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp
Roger
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Converting to externally reg alternator |
At 08:43 AM 4/2/2012, you wrote:
>
>Eric is easily amused...
>
>try:
>
>http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Converting+to+externally+regulated+alternator
>
>But here is where I will annoy Bob N.: Consider the fact that if
>automobile regulators had a lower failure rate if they were
>externally regulated, auto makers would use them. The fact is that
>BRAND NEW (not rebuilt) Nippon Denso alternators seem to have a
>nearly-zero failure rate.
>
>Then make your decision. I have had several builders send me their
>external regulators for examination. This cemented my opinion permanently.
Eric my man! This has never been a discussion
about comparative failure rates. If I've failed
to illuminate the logic behind my writings, indulge
me please with the following:
Without doing a very hi-labor study to discover
practical failure rates of any design philosophy, one
is presented with the question:
"Knowing that the failure rate of neither philosophy
is zero, what is the potential return on investment
for some active form of over-voltage management?"
In retrospect, had we considered and implemented
the PlanePower approach for ADDING ov protection
to an existing IR alternator design, it's an indisputable
fact that B&C could have brought a lower cost alternator/
regulator design to the OBAM aircraft marketplace than
the products which ultimately became the LR series
regulators and L series alternators.
But even with the PP philosophy in our hip pocket, it
did not address another feature of the design
philosophy for having ACTIVE notification of low
voltage as part of the package. So once you
have . . .
(1) a black box with LV warn and OV management
features and . . .
(2) we still have to open the alternator to make
the necessary interface that provides positive,
any time control over the alternator's output
(a legacy design goal carried across from TC
aviation).
(3) it just made more sense to us at the time to
offer one black box that offered the features
of three functions classically accomplished
by three separate devices, hence the LR1, 2 and
3 series regulators were crafted and offered to
OBAM aviation.
I'm still amazed that folks get so embroiled over
the idea of "my alternator is more RELIABLE than
your alternator." It's not about relative
reliability. It's about delivering to design goals
that have served us well in airplanes for nearly
100 years.
The simple-idea behind OV protection has
ALWAYS been an assumption that ANY regulator can
fail in a runaway condition. Unless KNOW that
a particular design combined with proper
installation and maintenance has a 10 to the
minus 9 failure rate, then the FAA doesn't
care if one alternator is 1.5 x 10 to the
minus 7 and the other is 1.0 x 10 to the
minus 8 and perhaps a third can be expected
to crap out in less than 2000 hours.
The working assumption is that they are not
perfect and building an automated response
to acknowledged imperfections is not only
a good idea, it's mandated:
FAR23.2451(c)(5) "Each generator/alternator must have an overvoltage
control designed and installed to prevent damage to the electrical
system, or to equipment supplied by the electrical system that could
result if that generator/alternator were to develop an overvoltage condition."
Notice that no relief is offered for the
more "reliable" of two systems.
I have always said that the modern automotive
products are of stellar value and performance.
I also elaborated on the potential for equal or
better value in remanufactured alternators in
the latest revision to chapter 3 in the 'Connnection.
http://tinyurl.com/cx6426c
So in retrospect, I still believe that the
B&C LR/L combo was a good decision. We
could probably redesign for ease of manufacturing
and reducing costs, I don't see an alternative
architecture that still stands up to design
and marketing goals we adopted at that time.
Even if we left the stock regulator in place,
we still have to open the alternator for
other reasons. So why not keep the internal
mods simple . . . and make the most vulnerable
parts easily trouble shot and replaced without
pulling a very reliable alternator off the
engine?
The fact that perhaps thousands of OBAM
aircraft are flying successfully with un-
modified IR alternators doesn't even merit
honorable mention in the discussion. It's
not about comparative reliability. It's
about perceptions of perfection. I'm aware
of no suppliers of perfect alternators . . .
nor is the FAA.
Even PlanePower subscribes to legacy
design goals when they modify commercial-
off-the-shelf alternators to provide OV
management and any-time, any-conditions,
positive control from the cockpit. I have
recommended nothing more . . . . or less.
If I am annoyed, its because there are those
among us that cast me in the role of Ralphie's
mother who admonishes, "Don't shoot that
B-B gun, you'll put your eye out!" My concerns
are not about the very low risk for loosing
one's eyesight. They're about understanding
and managing risks that are NOT zero. We're not
even talking about safety. I'm aware of no fatal
accident where an unmitigated ov condition
precipitated the event. . . . risk with potential
for damage that far exceeds the cost of a
mitigating feature.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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Subject: | Converting to externally reg alternator |
Yes but,
I seem to recall a modification procedure that did not require machining any
part of the case. It also did (as I recall) have you completely remove the
internal regulator. So the process of conversion was different as I recall.
All accomplished with simple hand tools. Perhaps Bob will chime in with his
recommendation.
Bevan
> _____________________________________________
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ROGER
> & JEAN CURTIS
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 12:12 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Converting to externally reg alternator
>
> Bevan,
>
> Was this not the information you were looking for??
>
>
> I have seen it but can't find it right now. Can you point me to an
> instruction for converting an internally regulated alternator to external?
>
> Thanks
>
> Bevan
>
> Here is one at the EAA site which might help you.
> http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp
>
> Roger
Message 16
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Subject: | please help me...........Rick |
- I am presently in Istanbul , Turkey for an urgent trip. Unfortunately i
was robbed in the hotel i lodged, all my valuables including cash, cell ph
ones was stolen during the attack but luckily i still have my passport with
me. I have been to the Embassy and the Police here but they're not helping
issues at all. Please i really need your financial assistance now because
things are really getting tough on me here. Kindly lend me $2,500 usd or an
y amount you can afford to me now,so i can sort out things and leave here,
i promise to refund it immediately i get back. Please send it through Weste
rn Union with my name and the address below:
Name: Keryn Lee HaynesAddress:Acisu Sok No 5 D 4MackaIstanbulTurkey
Kindly send me the transfer details including the Transfer Number (MTCN) as
soon as you send it. I await your urgent response.
Waiting for your help
Regards,Keryn-
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: please help me...........Rick |
Rick Lark,
It appears that your email address has been hijacked
by somebody in Turkey who is hopeful that someone on
this List is going to 'loan' him a bucket full of money. Suggest
you attend to changing your email address with Yahoo.
Bob . . .
At 03:43 PM 4/2/2012, you wrote:
> I am presently in Istanbul , Turkey for an urgent trip.
> Unfortunately i was robbed in the hotel i lodged, all my valuables
> including cash, cell phones was stolen during the attack but
> luckily i still have my passport with me. I have been to the
> Embassy and the Police here but they're not helping issues at all.
> Please i really need your financial assistance now because things
> are really getting tough on me here. Kindly lend me $2,500 usd or
> any amount you can afford to me now,so i can sort out things and
> leave here, i promise to refund it immediately i get back. Please
> send it through Western Union with my name and the address below:
>
>
>Name: Keryn Lee Haynes
>Address:Acisu Sok No 5 D 4
>Macka
>Istanbul
>Turkey
>
>Kindly send me the transfer details including the Transfer Number
>(MTCN) as soon as you send it. I await your urgent response.
>
>
>Waiting for your help
>
>Regards,
>Keryn
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Converting to externally reg alternator |
FWIW. I found this one in my files. Hope it's useful.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 04/02/2012 03:09 PM, B Tomm wrote:
> Yes but,
>
> I seem to recall a modification procedure that did not require machining
> any part of the case. It also did (as I recall) have you completely
> remove the internal regulator. So the process of conversion was
> different as I recall. All accomplished with simple hand tools. Perhaps
> Bob will chime in with his recommendation.
>
> Bevan
>
> _____________________________________________
> *From: * owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [_mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com_] *On Behalf Of*
> ROGER & JEAN CURTIS
>
> *Sent: * Monday, April 02, 2012 12:12 PM
> *To: * aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Subject: * AeroElectric-List: Converting to externally reg alternator
>
> Bevan,
>
> Was this not the information you were looking for??
>
>
> I have seen it but can't find it right now. Can you point me to an
> instruction for converting an internally regulated alternator to external?
>
> Thanks
>
> Bevan
>
> Here is one at the EAA site which might help you.
> _http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp_
>
> Roger
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 19
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Subject: | Converting to externally reg alternator |
At 03:09 PM 4/2/2012, you wrote:
>Yes but,
>
>I seem to recall a modification procedure that did not require
>machining any part of the case. It also did (as I recall) have you
>completely remove the internal regulator. So the process of
>conversion was different as I recall. All accomplished with simple
>hand tools. Perhaps Bob will chime in with his recommendation.
>
>Bevan
A successful mod has more to do with understanding the
manner in which MOST internally regulated alternators
are wired, deducing the precise mechanics that accomplish
this in YOUR alternator of choice and then doing the
minimum chop, hack and solder to achieve that end.
Most commercial off-the-shelf alternators have one brush
wired to a (+) source of power internal to the alternator.
Identifying and isolating the (+) brush connection is key
to the mod.
http://tinyurl.com/8a9uuns
PlanePower no doubt breaks this connection and brings it to
the outside world so that external power can be routed inside
by way of a circuit breaker upstream of a crowbar ov module.
In this case, they leave the (-) brush wired to the pull-down
collector or drain of the built in regulator so that it can
continue to function at what it does best.
If you want to run a classic pull-up regulator with this
alternator, then you permanently ground the (-) lead,
you still bring the (+) lead out to the external regulator.
Here's the 'rub' . . .
Emacs!
Most if not all "regulators" are housed in some
molded enclosure that includes brush holders. Identifying,
exposing brush connections, making reliable connection to,
and bringing leads out is not something one can write
a detailed, step-by-step instruction for. I could
probably mod about any alternator in 30 minutes but
that's based on a good working knowledge of alternators
in general. Take care that you do not alter the
spring geometry that keeps the brush in contact
with the slip rings at an optimized pressure for the
design.
I could write s-b-s instructions for any particular
model and brand . . . but suppose YOUR model and brand
is different?
I'm fairly certain that a mod can be done to about
any alternator without having to machine the case.
It's been 20+ years now so I'm not sure I recall why
the B&C mods DO machine the case. I think it's to
effect a nice mechanical connection of the (-) brush
with case ground using a spacer and screws. You don't
have to go that route, wires work too.
THEN . . . after slaying the (+) (-) brush problem,
you need to decide what, if anything, is best to be
done with the internal regulator. Simply isolated it
and leave in place -OR- pry it out and put jumper
wires in to take the brush holder wiring to the
outside world through the stock terminals on the
back of the alternator. I think you may find that
alloys used to fabricate bond-wire tabs for the
internal regulator's electronics assembly are not
very solderable . . . at least with our favorite 63/37
electronic grade stuff.
It has been suggested that the reason I don't offer
instructions for such mods on aeroelectric.com is
because I'm protecting a friend's market for modified
alternators. In fact, any article offered by me on anyone
else will be specific to one series of alternator of one brand.
I have oft suggested over the years that local alternator
shops could probably mod about any alternator you would
bring in the door. It's their business to have practical
knowledge of MANY alternators . . . which is beyond the
'scope of what I want to spend time on. If you study
and understand the alternator you have in hand, the
chances are you'll craft your own successful mod. But
just as weeks were spent fine-tuning the B&C offering
in search of the elegant solution, you'll spend a
significant amount of time doing yours for the first time
as well.
A great opportunity to learn something. If anyone
carries out a successful mod and bothers to photograph
the various steps, I'd be pleased to publish the
sequence on aeroelectric.com
Be sure to identify the 'victim' . . . preferably
by Lester number. This will greatly increase chances
of your efforts being useful to others.
Bob . . .
Message 20
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Subject: | Converting to externally reg alternator |
>
>Here is one at the EAA site which might help you.
><http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp>http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp
>
>
>Roger
This appears to be a mod on a ND alternator. The guts
exposed in these pictures are familiar to me. You can
probably accomplish the job without a milling machine
or lathe but some judicious sculpting with a Dremel motor
and cut-off wheel will speed the process up a bunch.
Bob . . .
Message 21
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Subject: | Converting to externally reg alternator |
Yes but,
I seem to recall a modification procedure that did not
require machining any part of the case. It also did (as I recall) have you
completely remove the internal regulator. So the process of conversion was
different as I recall. All accomplished with simple hand tools. Perhaps
Bob will chime in with his recommendation.
See attached! Is this, perhaps the one you
are looking for?
Roger
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: please help me...........Rick |
Guys, sorry about the message below.- It appears someone somehow hijacked
my yahoo account.- I've changed the password for now and depending on wh
at the Yahoo administration says I may change the whole account.- The wor
st thing about this is that all my saved-emails containing-tips/advise
have been deleted.-Hopefully Yahoo can restore them.
Again, sorry about this.............Rick-
--- On Mon, 4/2/12, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: please help me...........Rick
Received: Monday, April 2, 2012, 9:46 PM
Rick Lark,
It appears that your email address has been hijacked
by somebody in Turkey who is hopeful that someone on
this List is going to 'loan' him a bucket full of money. Suggest
you attend to changing your email address with Yahoo.
Bob . . .
At 03:43 PM 4/2/2012, you wrote:
- I am presently in Istanbul , Turkey for an urgent trip. Unfortunately i
was robbed in the hotel i lodged, all my valuables including cash, cell ph
ones was stolen during the attack but luckily i still have my passport with
me. I have been to the Embassy and the Police here but they're not helping
issues at all. Please i really need your financial assistance now because
things are really getting tough on me here. Kindly lend me $2,500 usd or an
y amount you can afford to me now,so i can sort out things and leave here,
i promise to refund it immediately i get back. Please send it through Weste
rn Union with my name and the address below:
Name: Keryn Lee Haynes
Address:Acisu Sok No 5 D 4
Macka
Istanbul
Turkey
Kindly send me the transfer details including the Transfer Number (MTCN) as
soon as you send it. I await your urgent response.
Waiting for your help
Regards,
Keryn
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: Converting to externally reg alternator |
At 10:24 AM 4/2/2012, you wrote:
>
>Does the crowbar module not offer enough protection? With a VFR day
>only, electronic ignition setup, minimal elctrogizmos, does not the
>reserve battery power give a safe reserve?
The ov protection systems can be crafted from a variety
of technologies and design goals . . . of which "crowbar"
modules is one.
ANY technology is better than none. The rational is based
on the fact that unlike a generator, alternators are capable
of over 100 volts of output as I discussed in this article:
http://tinyurl.com/6m3uyqz
What's more, this voltage is available at the same current
rating as the alternator. Nobody's avionics takes kindly
to such abundance of energy.
For an OV protection system to qualify onto a Type Certificated
aircraft, it must meet certain requirements for SPEED or time
it takes to respond to an OV condition. This is on the order
of 100 milliseconds or less. MUCH faster than any pilot will
perceive a failure and then react fast enough to preclude
damage to other parts of the airplane.
So an OV protection system has but one purpose . . . bring a
failed alternator system to heal in a timely manner. When
you ACTIVE NOTIFICATION OF LOW VOLTAGE light comes on a few
seconds later, THEN you transition to Plan-B and start the
process of getting back on the ground comfortably. Whether
or not your battery is capable of proving "safe reserve"
is an entirely separate matter.
Bob . . .
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: please help me...........Rick |
At 08:34 PM 4/2/2012, you wrote:
>Guys, sorry about the message below. It appears someone somehow
>hijacked my yahoo account. I've changed the password for now and
>depending on what the Yahoo administration says I may change the
>whole account. The worst thing about this is that all my saved
>emails containing tips/advise have been deleted. Hopefully Yahoo can
>restore them.
>Again, sorry about this.............Rick
Nothing to be sorry for on our account. It's unfortunate
that some individuals have to exist so distant from
the boundaries of honorable behavior. Decades ago they
had to get 'up close' . . . nowadays, they can work their
evil from anywhere on the planet. Our condolences . . . and
best wishes for a graceful recovery.
Bob . . .
Message 25
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Subject: | Converting to externally reg alternator |
Thanks Roger,
That's what I was looking for.
Bevan
> _____________________________________________
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ROGER
> & JEAN CURTIS
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 4:11 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Converting to externally reg alternator
>
>
>
> Yes but,
> I seem to recall a modification procedure that did not require
> machining any part of the case. It also did (as I recall) have you
> completely remove the internal regulator. So the process of conversion
> was different as I recall. All accomplished with simple hand tools.
> Perhaps Bob will chime in with his recommendation.
>
> See attached! Is this, perhaps the one you are
> looking for?
>
>
> Roger << File: Alternator Ext. Reg..pdf >>
>
Message 26
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Subject: | Gallery of First Flight Photos |
I've got David Lamb's first-flight photos posted to
aeroelectric.com at:
http://tinyurl.com/cylw44x
Any other members of the List who would like to mark their
own day of First Flight are welcome to submit their
photos along with location and date the first flight.
Bob . . .
Message 27
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Subject: | Troubleshooting Field Breaker |
I have the Z-13/8 arc hitecture installed in an RV-7 with the LR-3/ L-60 regulator
and alternator (370 hours in 4 years and not one electrical problem ) . I
recently had the aircraft down for conditional inspection and after about 6 weeks
started the aircraft, and when the alternator was brought on-line, the field
breaker is now popping as soon as the alternator switch is closed . Thinking
the battery was potentially shot after leaving the master on last year, I swapped
out the PC-680. I pulled down the LR3 troubleshooting guide from B&C and
for the most part, everything looks OK with the exception of the Pin 4 voltage
being 1.41 volts below the Pin 6, which is .21V out of tolerance (they indicate
a delta of 1.2V is expected). I ohm'd out each of the wires and everything
is basically 0 ohms across the individual wires including the field wire from
Pin 4 out to the alternator . I do have the 5A breaker installed.
I'm starting to scratch my head a bit on troubleshooting the system here, any tips
on what else to check?
Thanks,
Jim
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