AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Mon 04/02/12


Total Messages Posted: 27



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:52 AM - Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
     2. 06:45 AM - Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (Eric M. Jones)
     3. 06:57 AM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (Jared Yates)
     4. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (Ed Anderson)
     5. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
     6. 08:27 AM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (Bob Verwey)
     7. 09:14 AM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
     8. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (Jared Yates)
     9. 10:41 AM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (B Tomm)
    10. 11:28 AM - Re: Re: Wingtip VOR antenna . . . a clearer picture (Mark Harris)
    11. 11:32 AM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator ()
    12. 11:40 AM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (B Tomm)
    13. 12:16 PM - Converting to externally reg alternator (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
    14. 01:03 PM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    15. 01:09 PM - Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (B Tomm)
    16. 01:44 PM - please help me...........Rick (Rick Lark)
    17. 03:03 PM - Re: please help me...........Rick (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    18. 03:59 PM - Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (rayj)
    19. 04:01 PM - Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    20. 04:35 PM - Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    21. 04:38 PM - Converting to externally reg alternator (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
    22. 06:39 PM - Re: please help me...........Rick (Rick Lark)
    23. 07:41 PM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    24. 07:44 PM - Re: please help me...........Rick (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    25. 08:19 PM - Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (B Tomm)
    26. 08:21 PM - Gallery of First Flight Photos (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    27. 08:31 PM - Troubleshooting Field Breaker (piavis@comcast.net)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:52:15 AM PST US
    From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
    Subject: Converting to externally reg alternator
    I have seen it but can't find it right now. Can you point me to an instruction for converting an internally regulated alternator to external? Thanks Bevan Here is one at the EAA site which might help you. http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp Roger


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:45:02 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator
    From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
    Eric is easily amused... try: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Converting+to+externally+regulated+alternator But here is where I will annoy Bob N.: Consider the fact that if automobile regulators had a lower failure rate if they were externally regulated, auto makers would use them. The fact is that BRAND NEW (not rebuilt) Nippon Denso alternators seem to have a nearly-zero failure rate. Then make your decision. I have had several builders send me their external regulators for examination. This cemented my opinion permanently. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369828#369828


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:57:40 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator
    From: Jared Yates <email@jaredyates.com>
    I think Bob will say that the failure rate is less important than the failure mode. At least that is what I would say. On Apr 2, 2012, at 9:43, "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net> wrote: > > Eric is easily amused... > > try: > > http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Converting+to+externally+regulated+alternator > > But here is where I will annoy Bob N.: Consider the fact that if automobile regulators had a lower failure rate if they were externally regulated, auto makers would use them. The fact is that BRAND NEW (not rebuilt) Nippon Denso alternators seem to have a nearly-zero failure rate. > > Then make your decision. I have had several builders send me their external regulators for examination. This cemented my opinion permanently. > > -------- > Eric M. Jones > www.PerihelionDesign.com > 113 Brentwood Drive > Southbridge, MA 01550 > (508) 764-2072 > emjones(at)charter.net > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369828#369828 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:11:15 AM PST US
    From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator
    I have been flying over 12 years on a Bosch (rebuilt) alternator with internal regulator - with no problems. The only downside I can see is that once it has bootstrapped itself, removing voltage to the field coil does not stop the output. So if I had a runaway alternator it could theoretically fry my electronics - on the other hand, in all my life of driving automobiles and the one or two alternator failures (failed diodes), I've never had a runaway alternator failure mode. FWIW Ed Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com -------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 9:43 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator > <emjones@charter.net> > > Eric is easily amused... > > try: > > http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Converting+to+externally+regulated+alternator > > But here is where I will annoy Bob N.: Consider the fact that if > automobile regulators had a lower failure rate if they were externally > regulated, auto makers would use them. The fact is that BRAND NEW (not > rebuilt) Nippon Denso alternators seem to have a nearly-zero failure rate. > > Then make your decision. I have had several builders send me their > external regulators for examination. This cemented my opinion permanently. > > -------- > Eric M. Jones > www.PerihelionDesign.com > 113 Brentwood Drive > Southbridge, MA 01550 > (508) 764-2072 > emjones(at)charter.net > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369828#369828 > > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:35:05 AM PST US
    From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator
    Consider the fact that if automobile regulators had a lower failure rate if they were externally regulated, auto makers would use them. The fact is that BRAND NEW (not rebuilt) Nippon Denso alternators seem to have a nearly-zero failure rate. Then make your decision. I have had several builders send me their external regulators for examination. This cemented my opinion permanently. Eric, I believe that perhaps Bob does agree with you, in that the internally regulated alternator has "nearly-zero" but NOT ZERO failure. Apparently there have been some cases of catastrophic over voltage with no way to shut it down, when in the air. Have you found this to be the case with the externally regulated alternators? With the external regulator, when you shut off power to the regulator it positively shuts down the alternator. I personally feel that the risk is very low with the internal regulation, but also wonder why TC aircraft have continued to use external regulation. Roger


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:27:23 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator
    From: Bob Verwey <bob.verwey@gmail.com>
    Does the crowbar module not offer enough protection? With a VFR day only, electronic ignition setup, minimal elctrogizmos, does not the reserve battery power give a safe reserve? Bob Verwey On 02/04/2012, ROGER & JEAN CURTIS <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net> wrote: > Consider the fact that if automobile regulators had a lower failure rate if > they were externally regulated, auto makers would use them. The fact is that > BRAND NEW (not rebuilt) Nippon Denso alternators seem to have a nearly-zero > failure rate. > > Then make your decision. I have had several builders send me their external > regulators for examination. This cemented my opinion permanently. > > > Eric, > > I believe that perhaps Bob does agree with you, in that the > internally regulated alternator has "nearly-zero" but NOT ZERO failure. > Apparently there have been some cases of catastrophic over voltage with no > way to shut it down, when in the air. Have you found this to be the case > with the externally regulated alternators? With the external regulator, > when you shut off power to the regulator it positively shuts down the > alternator. > > I personally feel that the risk is very low with the > internal regulation, but also wonder why TC aircraft have continued to use > external regulation. > > Roger > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:14:10 AM PST US
    From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator
    Does the crowbar module not offer enough protection? With a VFR day only, electronic ignition setup, minimal elctrogizmos, does not the reserve battery power give a safe reserve? Bob Verwey The Conventional crowbar module is used with the external regulator. The internal regulator does not work with the external crowbar circuit. Roger


    Message 8


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    Time: 09:47:19 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator
    From: Jared Yates <email@jaredyates.com>
    My internally regulated plane power alt has crowbar ov protection. On Apr 2, 2012, at 12:12, "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net> wrote: > > Does the crowbar module not offer enough protection? With a VFR day > only, electronic ignition setup, minimal elctrogizmos, does not the > reserve battery power give a safe reserve? > > Bob Verwey > > > The Conventional crowbar module is used with the external > regulator. The internal regulator does not work with the external crowbar > circuit. > > Roger > <winmail.dat>


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:41:50 AM PST US
    From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
    Subject: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator
    Wow, I didn't think my question would hit such a sensitive nerve. In the same league as a primer war. My question was about the "how" but many of you are interested in discussing the "why". Here's where I'm coming from. For better or worse, the decision was made a long time ago to configure my electrical system for external regulation ala Bob M. Now I'm getting close to needing an alternator and looking at the options. I will have an SD-8 backup alternator and therefore don't consider the main alternator as being required to be of the absolute best quality. It just needs to have a failure mode that does not affect other more expensive electronics. As far as I know, there are no "100% guaranteed to work for ever" alternators anyway. So my theory is to have a spare in the hangar ready to go or to be brought to me when/if a failure occurs. I'm thinking I would rather have two $100 alternators that I have converted to external regulation and tested than one $595 alternator and no spare. When, converting two to external regulation I will learn something and decide whether I can do this when away from my regular tool box. I may be too far from my spare and have to buy an internally regulated one and convert it out in the field. I seem to recall that it's not too difficult of a process. More like a removal of unnecessary parts. Something I am usually pretty good at. I plan on keeping some maintenance papers in the plane's tool bag anyway, one of which could be the alternator process. My thoughts only. You may have another opinion and that's fine with me. Bevan "I like to build and fix things" > _____________________________________________ > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ROGER > & JEAN CURTIS > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 9:12 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Converting to externally reg > alternator > > > Does the crowbar module not offer enough protection? With a VFR day > only, electronic ignition setup, minimal elctrogizmos, does not the > reserve battery power give a safe reserve? > > Bob Verwey > > > The Conventional crowbar module is used with the external regulator. > The internal regulator does not work with the external crowbar circuit. > > Roger


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:28:25 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Wingtip VOR antenna . . . a clearer picture
    From: Mark Harris <harrismarkr@hotmail.com>
    Hi Bob Thanks for the reply ref the differing dimensions of the VOR antenna.i am some way off flying but will run with the one already made and see how it performs.depending on the out come I can always try the other dimension antenna. Thanks for all your help Mark Rent our beautiful 3 bedroom luxury villa in Orlando, Florida. View our virtual tour but book direct with us. See the link below:- http://www.florida1strentals.com/property.php?id=21 Contact Emma and Mark Harris 01582 529820 harrisfloridavilla@hotmail.com On 28 Mar 2012, at 21:47, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > > Thanks to List member van Saten, we've got some > better details for a DIY wingtip VOR antenna. See: > > http://tinyurl.com/6v5gvhx > > It seems that the sketch I was working from years ago > was either not up to date or in error. > > The insulator turns out to be either glass or cloth > filled phenolic, 0.062 inches thick. The measured > value of an off-the-shelf gamma-match capacitor is > 34 pf @ 1 KHz. > > I think the data above will get the builder closer to > a workable example of this particular antenna. > > Thanks Don! Your antenna will be back in the mail today. > > > Bob . . . > > > > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 11:32:56 AM PST US
    From: <longg@pjm.com>
    Subject: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator
    Beven, According to Mr. Google, this should take about 30 minutes. http://www.wallaceracing.com/alt-conversion.html It looks like it's more popular to covert externals to internals (at least in the automotive world where the externals always failed). Funny, I don't see too many folks lying under their cars on the turnpike pulling out their internally regulated jobs. I've run many a car well past 100k and never had the alternator go. That's why I've got an IR in my bird. I took have an SD-8. Wouldn't leave home without it. Occasionally I talk to pilots who piss and moan about how they had to fly their so and so to the alternator shop so they could have Mr. Alternator specialist provide a special part for their regulator. No Thanks Cut those wires and go fly. It's summer time. Glenn, N57 -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 1:39 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator Wow, I didn't think my question would hit such a sensitive nerve. In the same league as a primer war. My question was about the "how" but many of you are interested in discussing the "why". Here's where I'm coming from. For better or worse, the decision was made a long time ago to configure my electrical system for external regulation ala Bob M. Now I'm getting close to needing an alternator and looking at the options. I will have an SD-8 backup alternator and therefore don't consider the main alternator as being required to be of the absolute best quality. It just needs to have a failure mode that does not affect other more expensive electronics. As far as I know, there are no "100% guaranteed to work for ever" alternators anyway. So my theory is to have a spare in the hangar ready to go or to be brought to me when/if a failure occurs. I'm thinking I would rather have two $100 alternators that I have converted to external regulation and tested than one $595 alternator and no spare. When, converting two to external regulation I will learn something and decide whether I can do this when away from my regular tool box. I may be too far from my spare and have to buy an internally regulated one and convert it out in the field. I seem to recall that it's not too difficult of a process. More like a removal of unnecessary parts. Something I am usually pretty good at. I plan on keeping some maintenance papers in the plane's tool bag anyway, one of which could be the alternator process. My thoughts only. You may have another opinion and that's fine with me. Bevan "I like to build and fix things" > _____________________________________________ > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > ROGER & JEAN CURTIS > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 9:12 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Converting to externally reg > alternator > > > Does the crowbar module not offer enough protection? With a VFR day > only, electronic ignition setup, minimal elctrogizmos, does not the > reserve battery power give a safe reserve? > > Bob Verwey > > > The Conventional crowbar module is used with the external regulator. > The internal regulator does not work with the external crowbar circuit. > > Roger


    Message 12


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    Time: 11:40:42 AM PST US
    From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
    Subject: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator
    Eric, Very funny. But even this google search did not turn up what I was looking for. It seems that your search result was to convert an old car to internally regulated alternators. So I say "very funny". I know how to do a google search. What I was looking for was a step by step documented procedure I had seen on someone's build site. Could it be that automotive manufactures may have gone to internal regulation because is was more reliable via a solid state design with all components contained within one housing therefore easier to install in the vehicles coming down the assembly line? Were the voltage regulators that you took apart and didn't like, mechanical regulators? I seem to recall my 1971 chev truck had a mechanical regulator mounted on the fender. Bevan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M. Jones Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 6:43 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator --> <emjones@charter.net> Eric is easily amused... try: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Converting+to+externally+regulated+alternator But here is where I will annoy Bob N.: Consider the fact that if automobile regulators had a lower failure rate if they were externally regulated, auto makers would use them. The fact is that BRAND NEW (not rebuilt) Nippon Denso alternators seem to have a nearly-zero failure rate. Then make your decision. I have had several builders send me their external regulators for examination. This cemented my opinion permanently. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369828#369828


    Message 13


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    Time: 12:16:00 PM PST US
    From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
    Subject: Converting to externally reg alternator
    Bevan, Was this not the information you were looking for?? I have seen it but can't find it right now. Can you point me to an instruction for converting an internally regulated alternator to external? Thanks Bevan Here is one at the EAA site which might help you. http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp Roger


    Message 14


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    Time: 01:03:00 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator
    At 08:43 AM 4/2/2012, you wrote: > >Eric is easily amused... > >try: > >http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Converting+to+externally+regulated+alternator > >But here is where I will annoy Bob N.: Consider the fact that if >automobile regulators had a lower failure rate if they were >externally regulated, auto makers would use them. The fact is that >BRAND NEW (not rebuilt) Nippon Denso alternators seem to have a >nearly-zero failure rate. > >Then make your decision. I have had several builders send me their >external regulators for examination. This cemented my opinion permanently. Eric my man! This has never been a discussion about comparative failure rates. If I've failed to illuminate the logic behind my writings, indulge me please with the following: Without doing a very hi-labor study to discover practical failure rates of any design philosophy, one is presented with the question: "Knowing that the failure rate of neither philosophy is zero, what is the potential return on investment for some active form of over-voltage management?" In retrospect, had we considered and implemented the PlanePower approach for ADDING ov protection to an existing IR alternator design, it's an indisputable fact that B&C could have brought a lower cost alternator/ regulator design to the OBAM aircraft marketplace than the products which ultimately became the LR series regulators and L series alternators. But even with the PP philosophy in our hip pocket, it did not address another feature of the design philosophy for having ACTIVE notification of low voltage as part of the package. So once you have . . . (1) a black box with LV warn and OV management features and . . . (2) we still have to open the alternator to make the necessary interface that provides positive, any time control over the alternator's output (a legacy design goal carried across from TC aviation). (3) it just made more sense to us at the time to offer one black box that offered the features of three functions classically accomplished by three separate devices, hence the LR1, 2 and 3 series regulators were crafted and offered to OBAM aviation. I'm still amazed that folks get so embroiled over the idea of "my alternator is more RELIABLE than your alternator." It's not about relative reliability. It's about delivering to design goals that have served us well in airplanes for nearly 100 years. The simple-idea behind OV protection has ALWAYS been an assumption that ANY regulator can fail in a runaway condition. Unless KNOW that a particular design combined with proper installation and maintenance has a 10 to the minus 9 failure rate, then the FAA doesn't care if one alternator is 1.5 x 10 to the minus 7 and the other is 1.0 x 10 to the minus 8 and perhaps a third can be expected to crap out in less than 2000 hours. The working assumption is that they are not perfect and building an automated response to acknowledged imperfections is not only a good idea, it's mandated: FAR23.2451(c)(5) "Each generator/alternator must have an overvoltage control designed and installed to prevent damage to the electrical system, or to equipment supplied by the electrical system that could result if that generator/alternator were to develop an overvoltage condition." Notice that no relief is offered for the more "reliable" of two systems. I have always said that the modern automotive products are of stellar value and performance. I also elaborated on the potential for equal or better value in remanufactured alternators in the latest revision to chapter 3 in the 'Connnection. http://tinyurl.com/cx6426c So in retrospect, I still believe that the B&C LR/L combo was a good decision. We could probably redesign for ease of manufacturing and reducing costs, I don't see an alternative architecture that still stands up to design and marketing goals we adopted at that time. Even if we left the stock regulator in place, we still have to open the alternator for other reasons. So why not keep the internal mods simple . . . and make the most vulnerable parts easily trouble shot and replaced without pulling a very reliable alternator off the engine? The fact that perhaps thousands of OBAM aircraft are flying successfully with un- modified IR alternators doesn't even merit honorable mention in the discussion. It's not about comparative reliability. It's about perceptions of perfection. I'm aware of no suppliers of perfect alternators . . . nor is the FAA. Even PlanePower subscribes to legacy design goals when they modify commercial- off-the-shelf alternators to provide OV management and any-time, any-conditions, positive control from the cockpit. I have recommended nothing more . . . . or less. If I am annoyed, its because there are those among us that cast me in the role of Ralphie's mother who admonishes, "Don't shoot that B-B gun, you'll put your eye out!" My concerns are not about the very low risk for loosing one's eyesight. They're about understanding and managing risks that are NOT zero. We're not even talking about safety. I'm aware of no fatal accident where an unmitigated ov condition precipitated the event. . . . risk with potential for damage that far exceeds the cost of a mitigating feature. Bob . . .


    Message 15


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    Time: 01:09:48 PM PST US
    From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
    Subject: Converting to externally reg alternator
    Yes but, I seem to recall a modification procedure that did not require machining any part of the case. It also did (as I recall) have you completely remove the internal regulator. So the process of conversion was different as I recall. All accomplished with simple hand tools. Perhaps Bob will chime in with his recommendation. Bevan > _____________________________________________ > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ROGER > & JEAN CURTIS > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 12:12 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Converting to externally reg alternator > > Bevan, > > Was this not the information you were looking for?? > > > I have seen it but can't find it right now. Can you point me to an > instruction for converting an internally regulated alternator to external? > > Thanks > > Bevan > > Here is one at the EAA site which might help you. > http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp > > Roger


    Message 16


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    Time: 01:44:52 PM PST US
    From: Rick Lark <larkrv10@yahoo.ca>
    Subject: please help me...........Rick
    - I am presently in Istanbul , Turkey for an urgent trip. Unfortunately i was robbed in the hotel i lodged, all my valuables including cash, cell ph ones was stolen during the attack but luckily i still have my passport with me. I have been to the Embassy and the Police here but they're not helping issues at all. Please i really need your financial assistance now because things are really getting tough on me here. Kindly lend me $2,500 usd or an y amount you can afford to me now,so i can sort out things and leave here, i promise to refund it immediately i get back. Please send it through Weste rn Union with my name and the address below: Name: Keryn Lee HaynesAddress:Acisu Sok No 5 D 4MackaIstanbulTurkey Kindly send me the transfer details including the Transfer Number (MTCN) as soon as you send it. I await your urgent response. Waiting for your help Regards,Keryn-


    Message 17


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    Time: 03:03:58 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: please help me...........Rick
    Rick Lark, It appears that your email address has been hijacked by somebody in Turkey who is hopeful that someone on this List is going to 'loan' him a bucket full of money. Suggest you attend to changing your email address with Yahoo. Bob . . . At 03:43 PM 4/2/2012, you wrote: > I am presently in Istanbul , Turkey for an urgent trip. > Unfortunately i was robbed in the hotel i lodged, all my valuables > including cash, cell phones was stolen during the attack but > luckily i still have my passport with me. I have been to the > Embassy and the Police here but they're not helping issues at all. > Please i really need your financial assistance now because things > are really getting tough on me here. Kindly lend me $2,500 usd or > any amount you can afford to me now,so i can sort out things and > leave here, i promise to refund it immediately i get back. Please > send it through Western Union with my name and the address below: > > >Name: Keryn Lee Haynes >Address:Acisu Sok No 5 D 4 >Macka >Istanbul >Turkey > >Kindly send me the transfer details including the Transfer Number >(MTCN) as soon as you send it. I await your urgent response. > > >Waiting for your help > >Regards, >Keryn


    Message 18


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    Time: 03:59:06 PM PST US
    From: rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator
    FWIW. I found this one in my files. Hope it's useful. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 04/02/2012 03:09 PM, B Tomm wrote: > Yes but, > > I seem to recall a modification procedure that did not require machining > any part of the case. It also did (as I recall) have you completely > remove the internal regulator. So the process of conversion was > different as I recall. All accomplished with simple hand tools. Perhaps > Bob will chime in with his recommendation. > > Bevan > > _____________________________________________ > *From: * owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [_mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com_] *On Behalf Of* > ROGER & JEAN CURTIS > > *Sent: * Monday, April 02, 2012 12:12 PM > *To: * aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject: * AeroElectric-List: Converting to externally reg alternator > > Bevan, > > Was this not the information you were looking for?? > > > I have seen it but can't find it right now. Can you point me to an > instruction for converting an internally regulated alternator to external? > > Thanks > > Bevan > > Here is one at the EAA site which might help you. > _http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp_ > > Roger > > * > > > *


    Message 19


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    Time: 04:01:39 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Converting to externally reg alternator
    At 03:09 PM 4/2/2012, you wrote: >Yes but, > >I seem to recall a modification procedure that did not require >machining any part of the case. It also did (as I recall) have you >completely remove the internal regulator. So the process of >conversion was different as I recall. All accomplished with simple >hand tools. Perhaps Bob will chime in with his recommendation. > >Bevan A successful mod has more to do with understanding the manner in which MOST internally regulated alternators are wired, deducing the precise mechanics that accomplish this in YOUR alternator of choice and then doing the minimum chop, hack and solder to achieve that end. Most commercial off-the-shelf alternators have one brush wired to a (+) source of power internal to the alternator. Identifying and isolating the (+) brush connection is key to the mod. http://tinyurl.com/8a9uuns PlanePower no doubt breaks this connection and brings it to the outside world so that external power can be routed inside by way of a circuit breaker upstream of a crowbar ov module. In this case, they leave the (-) brush wired to the pull-down collector or drain of the built in regulator so that it can continue to function at what it does best. If you want to run a classic pull-up regulator with this alternator, then you permanently ground the (-) lead, you still bring the (+) lead out to the external regulator. Here's the 'rub' . . . Emacs! Most if not all "regulators" are housed in some molded enclosure that includes brush holders. Identifying, exposing brush connections, making reliable connection to, and bringing leads out is not something one can write a detailed, step-by-step instruction for. I could probably mod about any alternator in 30 minutes but that's based on a good working knowledge of alternators in general. Take care that you do not alter the spring geometry that keeps the brush in contact with the slip rings at an optimized pressure for the design. I could write s-b-s instructions for any particular model and brand . . . but suppose YOUR model and brand is different? I'm fairly certain that a mod can be done to about any alternator without having to machine the case. It's been 20+ years now so I'm not sure I recall why the B&C mods DO machine the case. I think it's to effect a nice mechanical connection of the (-) brush with case ground using a spacer and screws. You don't have to go that route, wires work too. THEN . . . after slaying the (+) (-) brush problem, you need to decide what, if anything, is best to be done with the internal regulator. Simply isolated it and leave in place -OR- pry it out and put jumper wires in to take the brush holder wiring to the outside world through the stock terminals on the back of the alternator. I think you may find that alloys used to fabricate bond-wire tabs for the internal regulator's electronics assembly are not very solderable . . . at least with our favorite 63/37 electronic grade stuff. It has been suggested that the reason I don't offer instructions for such mods on aeroelectric.com is because I'm protecting a friend's market for modified alternators. In fact, any article offered by me on anyone else will be specific to one series of alternator of one brand. I have oft suggested over the years that local alternator shops could probably mod about any alternator you would bring in the door. It's their business to have practical knowledge of MANY alternators . . . which is beyond the 'scope of what I want to spend time on. If you study and understand the alternator you have in hand, the chances are you'll craft your own successful mod. But just as weeks were spent fine-tuning the B&C offering in search of the elegant solution, you'll spend a significant amount of time doing yours for the first time as well. A great opportunity to learn something. If anyone carries out a successful mod and bothers to photograph the various steps, I'd be pleased to publish the sequence on aeroelectric.com Be sure to identify the 'victim' . . . preferably by Lester number. This will greatly increase chances of your efforts being useful to others. Bob . . .


    Message 20


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    Time: 04:35:39 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Converting to externally reg alternator
    > >Here is one at the EAA site which might help you. ><http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp>http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp > > >Roger This appears to be a mod on a ND alternator. The guts exposed in these pictures are familiar to me. You can probably accomplish the job without a milling machine or lathe but some judicious sculpting with a Dremel motor and cut-off wheel will speed the process up a bunch. Bob . . .


    Message 21


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    Time: 04:38:32 PM PST US
    From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
    Subject: Converting to externally reg alternator
    Yes but, I seem to recall a modification procedure that did not require machining any part of the case. It also did (as I recall) have you completely remove the internal regulator. So the process of conversion was different as I recall. All accomplished with simple hand tools. Perhaps Bob will chime in with his recommendation. See attached! Is this, perhaps the one you are looking for? Roger


    Message 22


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    Time: 06:39:19 PM PST US
    From: Rick Lark <larkrv10@yahoo.ca>
    Subject: Re: please help me...........Rick
    Guys, sorry about the message below.- It appears someone somehow hijacked my yahoo account.- I've changed the password for now and depending on wh at the Yahoo administration says I may change the whole account.- The wor st thing about this is that all my saved-emails containing-tips/advise have been deleted.-Hopefully Yahoo can restore them. Again, sorry about this.............Rick- --- On Mon, 4/2/12, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: please help me...........Rick Received: Monday, April 2, 2012, 9:46 PM Rick Lark, It appears that your email address has been hijacked by somebody in Turkey who is hopeful that someone on this List is going to 'loan' him a bucket full of money. Suggest you attend to changing your email address with Yahoo. Bob . . . At 03:43 PM 4/2/2012, you wrote: - I am presently in Istanbul , Turkey for an urgent trip. Unfortunately i was robbed in the hotel i lodged, all my valuables including cash, cell ph ones was stolen during the attack but luckily i still have my passport with me. I have been to the Embassy and the Police here but they're not helping issues at all. Please i really need your financial assistance now because things are really getting tough on me here. Kindly lend me $2,500 usd or an y amount you can afford to me now,so i can sort out things and leave here, i promise to refund it immediately i get back. Please send it through Weste rn Union with my name and the address below: Name: Keryn Lee Haynes Address:Acisu Sok No 5 D 4 Macka Istanbul Turkey Kindly send me the transfer details including the Transfer Number (MTCN) as soon as you send it. I await your urgent response. Waiting for your help Regards, Keryn


    Message 23


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    Time: 07:41:15 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator
    At 10:24 AM 4/2/2012, you wrote: > >Does the crowbar module not offer enough protection? With a VFR day >only, electronic ignition setup, minimal elctrogizmos, does not the >reserve battery power give a safe reserve? The ov protection systems can be crafted from a variety of technologies and design goals . . . of which "crowbar" modules is one. ANY technology is better than none. The rational is based on the fact that unlike a generator, alternators are capable of over 100 volts of output as I discussed in this article: http://tinyurl.com/6m3uyqz What's more, this voltage is available at the same current rating as the alternator. Nobody's avionics takes kindly to such abundance of energy. For an OV protection system to qualify onto a Type Certificated aircraft, it must meet certain requirements for SPEED or time it takes to respond to an OV condition. This is on the order of 100 milliseconds or less. MUCH faster than any pilot will perceive a failure and then react fast enough to preclude damage to other parts of the airplane. So an OV protection system has but one purpose . . . bring a failed alternator system to heal in a timely manner. When you ACTIVE NOTIFICATION OF LOW VOLTAGE light comes on a few seconds later, THEN you transition to Plan-B and start the process of getting back on the ground comfortably. Whether or not your battery is capable of proving "safe reserve" is an entirely separate matter. Bob . . .


    Message 24


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    Time: 07:44:33 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: please help me...........Rick
    At 08:34 PM 4/2/2012, you wrote: >Guys, sorry about the message below. It appears someone somehow >hijacked my yahoo account. I've changed the password for now and >depending on what the Yahoo administration says I may change the >whole account. The worst thing about this is that all my saved >emails containing tips/advise have been deleted. Hopefully Yahoo can >restore them. >Again, sorry about this.............Rick Nothing to be sorry for on our account. It's unfortunate that some individuals have to exist so distant from the boundaries of honorable behavior. Decades ago they had to get 'up close' . . . nowadays, they can work their evil from anywhere on the planet. Our condolences . . . and best wishes for a graceful recovery. Bob . . .


    Message 25


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    Time: 08:19:12 PM PST US
    From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
    Subject: Converting to externally reg alternator
    Thanks Roger, That's what I was looking for. Bevan > _____________________________________________ > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ROGER > & JEAN CURTIS > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 4:11 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Converting to externally reg alternator > > > > Yes but, > I seem to recall a modification procedure that did not require > machining any part of the case. It also did (as I recall) have you > completely remove the internal regulator. So the process of conversion > was different as I recall. All accomplished with simple hand tools. > Perhaps Bob will chime in with his recommendation. > > See attached! Is this, perhaps the one you are > looking for? > > > Roger << File: Alternator Ext. Reg..pdf >> >


    Message 26


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    Time: 08:21:15 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Gallery of First Flight Photos
    I've got David Lamb's first-flight photos posted to aeroelectric.com at: http://tinyurl.com/cylw44x Any other members of the List who would like to mark their own day of First Flight are welcome to submit their photos along with location and date the first flight. Bob . . .


    Message 27


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    Time: 08:31:51 PM PST US
    From: piavis@comcast.net
    Subject: Troubleshooting Field Breaker
    I have the Z-13/8 arc hitecture installed in an RV-7 with the LR-3/ L-60 regulator and alternator (370 hours in 4 years and not one electrical problem ) . I recently had the aircraft down for conditional inspection and after about 6 weeks started the aircraft, and when the alternator was brought on-line, the field breaker is now popping as soon as the alternator switch is closed . Thinking the battery was potentially shot after leaving the master on last year, I swapped out the PC-680. I pulled down the LR3 troubleshooting guide from B&C and for the most part, everything looks OK with the exception of the Pin 4 voltage being 1.41 volts below the Pin 6, which is .21V out of tolerance (they indicate a delta of 1.2V is expected). I ohm'd out each of the wires and everything is basically 0 ohms across the individual wires including the field wire from Pin 4 out to the alternator . I do have the 5A breaker installed. I'm starting to scratch my head a bit on troubleshooting the system here, any tips on what else to check? Thanks, Jim




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