Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:20 AM - Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (eschlanser)
2. 08:56 AM - Re: Troubleshooting Field Breaker (user9253)
3. 09:51 AM - Re: Troubleshooting Field Breaker (Jim P)
4. 10:26 AM - Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (eschlanser)
5. 10:54 AM - Re: Re: Troubleshooting Field Breaker (mapratherid)
6. 11:48 AM - Re: Troubleshooting Field Breaker (Jim P)
7. 01:56 PM - Re: please help me...........Rick (Rick Lark)
8. 02:12 PM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (Charlie England)
9. 03:21 PM - Re: Troubleshooting Field Breaker (user9253)
10. 06:01 PM - IR alternator in Z-13/8 (rvtach)
11. 06:34 PM - Re: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator (B Tomm)
12. 06:37 PM - Re: Troubleshooting Field Breaker (Jim P)
13. 09:09 PM - Re: Troubleshooting Field Breaker (user9253)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Converting to externally reg alternator |
Roger or forum users,
I cannot seem to open the attachment. It appears on my screen as a winmail.dat
file rather than an adobe pdf or other file that my computer can open. I am seeing
the file in the aeroelectric forum at the matronics lists.
Thanks for any help,
Eric
mrspudandcompany(at)veriz wrote:
> Yes but,
> I seem to recall a modification procedure that did not
> require machining any part of the case. It also did (as I recall) have you
> completely remove the internal regulator. So the process of conversion was
> different as I recall. All accomplished with simple hand tools. Perhaps
> Bob will chime in with his recommendation.
>
> See attached! Is this, perhaps the one you
> are looking for?
>
>
> Roger
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369945#369945
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Subject: | Re: Troubleshooting Field Breaker |
> the field breaker is now popping as soon as the alternator switch is closed
If I understand correctly, you are turning on the alternator switch AFTER the engine
is running. What happens if the alternator switch is turned on BEFORE starting
the engine? Does the breaker still pop?
I suggest that the terminals on the voltage regulator be examined carefully to
be sure that there is a good tight connection with no corrosion. Also check
that the regulator is well grounded to the system ground bus with no corrosion.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369951#369951
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Subject: | Re: Troubleshooting Field Breaker |
I've actually tried both ways, and both pop the breaker. The contacts on the LR-3
look good, and all the grounds are good. I did pull the regulator if B&C wanted
me to sent it in.
If not, I may just create jumpers to confirm wiring, but there's always the possibility
that the alternator would be bad I suspect.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369957#369957
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Subject: | Re: Converting to externally reg alternator |
Got it in a PM.
Thanks, Eric
eschlanser wrote:
> Roger or forum users,
> I cannot seem to open the attachment. It appears on my screen as a winmail.dat
file rather than an adobe pdf or other file that my computer can open. I am
seeing the file in the aeroelectric forum at the matronics lists.
> Thanks for any help,
> Eric
>
>
> mrspudandcompany(at)veriz wrote:
> > Yes but,
> > I seem to recall a modification procedure that did not
> > require machining any part of the case. It also did (as I recall) have you
> > completely remove the internal regulator. So the process of conversion was
> > different as I recall. All accomplished with simple hand tools. Perhaps
> > Bob will chime in with his recommendation.
> >
> > See attached! Is this, perhaps the one you
> > are looking for?
> >
> >
> > Roger
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369964#369964
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Troubleshooting Field Breaker |
Seems like the field is shorted. If you disconnect the field wire from the alternator,
does it still trip the breaker? I'm suspicious of a wiring fault. Or
possibly a fault in the alternator.
As another asked, does it only trip with the engine running?
Matt-
On Apr 3, 2012, at 10:49 AM, "Jim P" <piavis@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I've actually tried both ways, and both pop the breaker. The contacts on the
LR-3 look good, and all the grounds are good. I did pull the regulator if B&C
wanted me to sent it in.
>
> If not, I may just create jumpers to confirm wiring, but there's always the possibility
that the alternator would be bad I suspect.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369957#369957
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Troubleshooting Field Breaker |
Yes, only when the engine is running. It does not trip with battery, and it didn't
trip with a power supply attached to the B-lead with engine shut-down.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369967#369967
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Subject: | Re: please help me...........Rick |
Thx Bob
-
Rick-
-
#40956
Southampton, Ont
--- On Tue, 4/3/12, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: please help me...........Rick
Received: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 2:42 AM
s.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 08:34 PM 4/2/2012, you wrote:
> Guys, sorry about the message below.- It appears someone somehow hijack
ed my yahoo account.- I've changed the password for now and depending on
what the Yahoo administration says I may change the whole account.- The w
orst thing about this is that all my saved emails containing tips/advise ha
ve been deleted. Hopefully Yahoo can restore them.
> Again, sorry about this.............Rick
- Nothing to be sorry for on our account. It's unfortunate
- that some individuals have to exist so distant from
- the boundaries of honorable behavior. Decades ago they
- had to get 'up close' . . . nowadays, they can work their
- evil from anywhere on the planet. Our condolences . . . and
- best wishes for a graceful recovery.
- Bob . . .
le, List Admin.
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Converting to externally reg alternator |
Someone recently sent me off-the-shelf part numbers that can be used to
convert some Nippon Denso alternators to external regulation with
bolt-on parts. I don't have time now to dig up the info, but if you're
not in a hurry, I'll try to find it within the next few days.
Charlie
On 04/02/2012 12:39 PM, B Tomm wrote:
>
> Wow, I didn't think my question would hit such a sensitive nerve. In
> the same league as a primer war.
>
> My question was about the "how" but many of you are interested in
> discussing the "why". Here's where I'm coming from.
>
> For better or worse, the decision was made a long time ago to
> configure my electrical system for external regulation ala Bob M. Now
> I'm getting close to needing an alternator and looking at the
> options. I will have an SD-8 backup alternator and therefore don't
> consider the main alternator as being required to be of the absolute
> best quality. It just needs to have a failure mode that does not
> affect other more expensive electronics. As far as I know, there are
> no "100% guaranteed to work for ever" alternators anyway. So my
> theory is to have a spare in the hangar ready to go or to be brought
> to me when/if a failure occurs. I'm thinking I would rather have two
> $100 alternators that I have converted to external regulation and
> tested than one $595 alternator and no spare.
>
> When, converting two to external regulation I will learn something and
> decide whether I can do this when away from my regular tool box. I
> may be too far from my spare and have to buy an internally regulated
> one and convert it out in the field. I seem to recall that it's not
> too difficult of a process. More like a removal of unnecessary
> parts. Something I am usually pretty good at. I plan on keeping some
> maintenance papers in the plane's tool bag anyway, one of which could
> be the alternator process.
>
> My thoughts only. You may have another opinion and that's fine with me.
>
> Bevan
>
> "I like to build and fix things"
>
>
> _____________________________________________
> *From: * owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [_mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com_] *On Behalf Of*
> ROGER & JEAN CURTIS
>
> *Sent: * Monday, April 02, 2012 9:12 AM
> *To: * aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Subject: * RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Converting to externally reg
> alternator
>
>
> Does the crowbar module not offer enough protection? With a VFR day
> only, electronic ignition setup, minimal elctrogizmos, does not the
> reserve battery power give a safe reserve?
>
> Bob Verwey
>
>
> The Conventional crowbar module is used with the external
> regulator. The internal regulator does not work with the
> external crowbar circuit.
>
> Roger
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Troubleshooting Field Breaker |
Since the breaker does not trip when the engine is off (with the alternator switch
on), that tells me that the alternator is good and that the regulator and
O.V. are not shorted to ground.
Going by the symptoms that you described, I see 3 possible causes listed in order
of likelihood:
1. High resistance in the voltage regulator sense circuit. The Alternator switch
is one suspect.
2. Defective voltage regulator.
3. Defective over-voltage protection.
Let's test for high resistance. With the engine off and the master and alternator
switches on, connect a 35 watt 12V lamp between the regulator Sense terminal
and the regulator case (not aircraft ground). The lamp should illuminate.
Measure the voltage across the lamp. It should be close to the battery voltage.
If the voltage across the lamp is low, then measure at various points in
the Voltage Regulator Sense circuit until the location of the voltage drop is
found.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369981#369981
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Subject: | IR alternator in Z-13/8 |
Bob-
All this recent talk about internal and external regulated alternators has reminded
me that once upon a time (several years ago at an Aeroelectric Seminar in
Prescott, AZ) you said that you were fairly close to coming up with a way to
gracefully integrate an internally regulated alternator into a Z-13/8, or other
AEC, system. The solution you described at that time would allow total control
of the alternator by the pilot and would allow use of a crowbar OV protection.
I've lost track of where this eventually wound up and was wondering anything
ever came of this effort. Or did it simply become apparrent that just using
the ER alternator is the way to go?
I have an IR alternator and am trying to decide whether to just use it, replace
it with an off the shelf ER alternator or have the local alternator modify it
to ER. The Plane Power alternator would be an option as it seems like a well
thought out piece of equipment but kind of lot of money for an alternator.
I try to keep up with the rest of the class so I don't have to ask questions that
have already been discussed but I haven't been able to find the answer to this
question in the archives and I don't remember reading anything about this
specific question.
I appreciate any information about this and I will always be grateful for everything
I have learned in your school Bob. Thanks for everything.
--------
Jim McChesney
Tucson, AZ
RV-7A Finishing Kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369987#369987
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Converting to externally reg alternator |
Thanks Charlie,
I have found the info I was initially looking for (and then some) but what
you're talking about is very interesting too. I would be interested
whenever you have the time to dig it up.
Bevan
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie
England
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Converting to externally reg alternator
Someone recently sent me off-the-shelf part numbers that can be used to
convert some Nippon Denso alternators to external regulation with bolt-on
parts. I don't have time now to dig up the info, but if you're not in a
hurry, I'll try to find it within the next few days.
Charlie
On 04/02/2012 12:39 PM, B Tomm wrote:
Wow, I didn't think my question would hit such a sensitive nerve. In the
same league as a primer war.
My question was about the "how" but many of you are interested in discussing
the "why". Here's where I'm coming from.
For better or worse, the decision was made a long time ago to configure my
electrical system for external regulation ala Bob M. Now I'm getting close
to needing an alternator and looking at the options. I will have an SD-8
backup alternator and therefore don't consider the main alternator as being
required to be of the absolute best quality. It just needs to have a
failure mode that does not affect other more expensive electronics. As far
as I know, there are no "100% guaranteed to work for ever" alternators
anyway. So my theory is to have a spare in the hangar ready to go or to be
brought to me when/if a failure occurs. I'm thinking I would rather have
two $100 alternators that I have converted to external regulation and tested
than one $595 alternator and no spare.
When, converting two to external regulation I will learn something and
decide whether I can do this when away from my regular tool box. I may be
too far from my spare and have to buy an internally regulated one and
convert it out in the field. I seem to recall that it's not too difficult
of a process. More like a removal of unnecessary parts. Something I am
usually pretty good at. I plan on keeping some maintenance papers in the
plane's tool bag anyway, one of which could be the alternator process.
My thoughts only. You may have another opinion and that's fine with me.
Bevan
"I like to build and fix things"
_____________________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [
<mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>
mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ROGER &
JEAN CURTIS
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 9:12 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Converting to externally reg
alternator
Does the crowbar module not offer enough protection? With a VFR day
only, electronic ignition setup, minimal elctrogizmos, does not the
reserve battery power give a safe reserve?
Bob Verwey
The Conventional crowbar module is used with the external regulator.
The internal regulator does not work with the external crowbar circuit.
Roger
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Troubleshooting Field Breaker |
I've done some of that troubleshooting. With the Battery / ALT ON at 12.21V, I
actually get 12.20 at the OV sense terminal and 10.52V out of terminal #4 which
is the field line. Bus voltage into the regulator is 11.93.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369995#369995
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Troubleshooting Field Breaker |
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Regulators/Zeftronics/R15V00_Ford_Style_Reulator.pdf
0.27 volts dropped between the OV sense terminal and VR sense terminal seems high.
There could be a loose connection. A fully charged battery should have a
voltage of about 12.8 volts.
Attached is a circuit to test the OV protection. If the aircraft battery voltage
is 12.2, connect two flashlight batteries in series with the OV ground wire.
Note the polarity of the flashlight batteries. I would not expect the OV
protection to trip the circuit breaker at 15.4 volts (12.2 + 1.6 + 1.6). If
the OV does trip the breaker, then the OV needs to be adjusted to a higher trip
point (16v).
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370003#370003
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ov_test_102.jpg
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